Experience with Elderly Instruments

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 08:48 PM

... by the way Banjer, I don't mean to blow off your complaint - I know it sucks when your expectations aren't met.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 08:46 PM

I guess I just wouldn't think of going to Elderly for a quick delivery anyway - not because I thought they might give bad service (as I said earlier my expereince with them has been good) - but because when I want quick service, especially on a quick service item I go to a specialty shop; on-line or 3D.

No dig on Elderly, but that is NOT the kind of thing I'd expect from them, and I suspect for strings (which I buy in bulk) I can get a better deal elsewhere.

I go to Elderly for their unusual, and fine instruments that they might have in stock - and for their knowledgeable and helpful staff. I go there knowing THOSE things are their specialty, and those are things I very appreciate! It's damn hard to walk into their store and not fall in love with several instruments in the first half hour!

If I want quick service on delivery and lowest possible, commodity sort of pricing on items I already know about (like strings) I go to someone that specializes in that sort of thing.

I believe that Elderley has earned a good, solid reputation for good reason - and they have held it for a long time. May that continue! It is true, they cannot be all things to all people - and if they tried to compete with the on-line commodity priced, high speed fulfillment houses - they wuld almost certainly the value they offer to me; great instruments in house, great epxertise on those instruments and good pricing.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Banjer
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 08:08 PM

Big Mick, in response to your suggestion I just sent an e-mail to your man Stan.

Subject: Elderly is OK by me
From: Alice
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:54 PM

My two sets of guitar strings showed up this evening. My apologies to Elderly. It was more of a longer than usual transit by UPS than Elderly's processing.

Alice

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: NicoleC
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:16 PM

Well, I'm glad to hear the good stories about Elderly, too. There are too few quality folk music shops on the web already.

Unfortunately, my order STILL hasn't arrived, but at this point it's in the hands of UPS. I won't see it until Monday at the earliest now, which will make 3 weeks out. Bummer. I was planning to spend my holiday finishing up mando surgery and take it for a spin.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 07:01 PM

Hi I just bought a Mike Ramsey Frettles from them .They sent it in time for the trip to England (Very Fast). Very nice people for 30 years.. They dont even mind my drool on instroments if i can find my way to East Lansing and they were one f a handful of cd shops that had some cd's Ive been on.. Almost an inpossability to find!!! .. All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: DonMeixner
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 06:43 PM

My experience with Elderly has been very good as a rule. My one bad experience was buying a long neck banjo case.   The case was great in all aspects but one. The banjo wouldn't fit. The solution was a structural anomoly that required 5 minutes of surgery. Elderly asked if I could repair it myself. They had checked all the other cases for the long neck and found them to be faulty as well. It would take a week to get a new one in checked and shipped. I said I could fix it and did. Unexpectedly a week late I recieved a not from Elderly saying my time was worth something and they passed along a couple sets of banjo strings and a $20.00 store credit for my inconvenience.

The one time I recieved an email saying my purchased was shipped a few day later than my order was because of a backorder problem.

Don

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 03:55 PM

Well Banjer, I can see why you feel mad at me. Nonetheless, I still hope the strings arrived, and that you are enjoying them as we speak. And may you never have another mail order problem as long as you live.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Banjer
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 03:51 PM

I say, Banjer's criticism wasn't legitimate for a number of reasons.


At least I am not afraid to put my name on a post. I do not need to hide behind GUEST handles. I still maintain that five days to even process an order is too long. If the order was received on Monday AM, it could have been sent by Wed at the very latest. As fo rthe rest of GUEST's raving lunacy, put a name to it and I will pay attention!

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 03:38 PM

Banjer, have your strings arrived (we hope) in time for the Thanksgiving holiday?

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: denise:^)
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 01:55 PM

Never had a problem with them, myself, and I've phone-ordered, internet-ordered, and just plain old driven down there (about 2 hours, but I was going that way for something else...).

Sorry to hear about your bad experience. It's never fun to get poor service, but I don't think I'd give up on them after only one problem.

*I* couldn't! They have too much stuff I need...

denise:^)

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 01:34 PM

I just placed an order with Elderly and was told I could expect 7 to 10 days. Not bad for over a long holiday weekend.

What I haven't seen anyone mention yet is that with an organisation like Elderly it may not take several days to process Banjers one order of a few sets of strings. But it takes time to GET to that order. FIRST they have to process the orders that were called in yesterday - and the day before that, and so on. First come first served is a pretty good process. Especially if there was no communication when the order was placed as to delivery time.

I know that I go to Elderly to get things I can't find in my local Mom and Pop store. I'm happy with the service I've received and will continue to shop there.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 01:04 PM

I would like to put a plug in for Highly Srung as a source for any mail order business.I have used them for twenty odd years and have never had a problem.e-mail is-- [e-mail],or if you are in UK try phoning 01235 762000,and ask for Nigel.(Hes the boss).

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:55 AM

Well, in my opinion "sucks" is a rather negatively charged word to describe slower than expected shipping service and less than polite customer complaint response.

Usually, when I'm disappointed with what I'm hearing back from a service representative I ask to speak with their supervisor if I'm still not satisfied.

That reminds me, I still haven't heard back from that used bookseller who was supposed to send me MY f****ing order a month ago!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble, whose house fortunately did not burn down this morning in spite of all the smoke alarms from upstairs

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:47 AM

Can someone please point out to me where on the Elderly Music website they say that you will receive your order within three days time? Can someone please point out to me where on the Elderly Music website they say that you will receive your order within five days time?

It is one thing to have verifiable proof of bad service. As this thread shows, there are some people who will define bad service as anything that doesn't meet their assumptions and experience with other businesses, ie within three to five days time. Then there are some people, like myself and some others posting to this thread, who believe that unless there is a published timeline for delivery stating the product will arrive within 3 to 5 days (or they inform you of a timeline by phone, email, etc), one can reasonably expect mail order service to take approximately two weeks, possibly longer during the Christmas holiday season.

I think we can all agree that with the information provided by Banjer in this thread, that Banjer is one of the former types of people, who assumes that anything that doesn't arrive at his door mail ordered within 3 - 5 days is bad service, hence his complaint. Then there are others like myself who, based upon the information provided by Banjer, assumes there isn't a problem with service, as it hadn't yet been two weeks since he ordered.

I agree that criticising a business is fair at any time of the year, if the criticism is legitimate. I say, Banjer's criticism wasn't legitimate for a number of reasons. First, it appeared to me from reading what he said in this thread that he assumed he would receive his strings within 3 - 5 day, but wasn't actually told that by anyone who works at Elderly. If I misinterpreted Banjer's posts in this regard, I'm sure he'll correct me. Second, he tells us he called to complain after receiving email notification that his order had been shipped five days after the order was placed, and was treated badly on the phone.

Well, I'm old school, and believe the customer is always right, even when it is obvious the customer is really wrong. However, I am also guessing that if Banjer had an angry tone in his voice when calling to complain that his order wasn't being filled fast enough, that first thing on a Monday, he may have caught the phone representative off guard, and caused a defensive reaction. We aren't privy to what the Elderly phone representative actually said. Banjer only tells us "Her reply was very curt and in a tone of voice that I interpret as rude. Sort of an "if you don't like it, tough" attitude."

We have no way of knowing if her tone of voice was rude, or whether she has a "if you don't like, tough" attitude. We only know that Banjer interpreted his conversation with this person that way.

Banjer did not share with us whether he made a formal complaint about slow delivery to the company or not. Banjer did not share with us what the Elderly representative actually told him on the phone. Banjer did not share with us whether or not he had contacted someone in a position to do something about the delivery times at Elderly, to share their concerns in a way that might help Elderly improve it's customer service. Rather, Banjer went into an online music forum where he knew a number of happy and satisfied customers, as well as potential future customers regularly participated, and complained to us.

Now, what can users of this forum do about Elderly's service? Well, one Elderly customer actually did what Banjer himself would have likely been better served for having done himself, which was contact the business owner. Small businesses survive based upon word of mouth referrals as their bread and butter. When we publicly bitch about the small businesses that serve our music communities, and don't deal with the business in questions, we do a disservice not only to that business, but to ourselves. There just aren't that many small businesses out there serving the acoustic music community. For thousands of people involved in this music, they do not have the luxury of running down to a local shop to pick up hard to find products.

It seems to me there is a productive way of dealing with customer service complaints in the acoustic music business world, and unproductive ways of doing it. This strikes me as being one of the unproductive ones.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: RichM
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 10:08 AM

Dear Guest, you can be the judge of comments that are "needless and unfair"---just as each of us can--

Any business should expect that customers will have opinions about its service. And it should expect that in a public forum like this, each reader can judge for themselves, as I do.

I always expect Elderly to be slow, it's my experience with them after years of ordering from them. Other mail order businesses I deal with are two to three times faster in service time.
In any case, it probably is too late to order NOW from them , for delivery by Christmas.

And no, I don't think it's unfair to offer a criticism at Christmas time, or any other time.. It's part of doing business--any kind of business.


Rich McCarthy

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM

I agree with everything you said KimC. But I do have a problem with people posting damnations of excellent small businesses in public forums like this, just because their assumptions about how fast the delivery of product should be (in their mind) didn't pan out.

To me, the disturbing thing here isn't how long does it take Elderly Music to deliver a set of strings. The disturbing thing to me is someone badmouthing them needlessly and unfairly, at a time of year when they receive the lion's share of their business (Christmas).

I'm not saying we shouldn't share our experiences with sham businesses, when we have verifiable proof of bad service. It doesn't look to me as the original poster to this thread has that in this instance. It looks to me like this poster was angry because his desire for instant gratification wasn't met, so he lashed out publicly at the business, hoping to do them harm by badmouthing them "to get back at them" for not operating the business the way he assumed it *should* operate. So essentially, he is badmouthing a reputable business that does a great service to the music community, because his unrealistic expectations weren't met.

Is that fair to Elderly Music?

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 09:42 AM

Remember back in the old days, though, mail order people used to always say "please allow 4-6 weeks."

I think two weeks is plenty reasonable. If I need something Right Now I can bop over to the local music shop where I get treated like dog poop if I get noticed at all.

Six of one, half dozen of the other. At any rate, there are plenty of establishments for everyone to choose from. :-)

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: NicoleC
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 10:37 PM

Guest, you may not think that 2 weeks is poor turnaround, but why would I order from a business that ships so slowly when I can order strings for the same price from Ifshin Violins and they stick them in the mail the same day? Or from another small shop who ships in a day or two?

Based on what folks are saying here, Elderly is generally kinda slow, and that may be why they don't post any kind of expected timeframe on their site. I've heard enough good stuff about them to consider ordering an instrument or other major purchase from them for the sake of the service or the selection -- it's why I looked them up in the first place -- but not the bread and butter accessories. If they can't handle my order in a timely fashion, they can't. Oh well.

Maybe I should have learned something when I requested a catalog months ago and never got it?

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Burke
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 12:52 PM

I placed an order for strings & a gig bag with Elderly last summer. I was under a deadline & knew I was cutting it close, but not that close. All the same, I was surprised to get an e-mail saying "shipped today" several days later & about the time I was looking for my package. UPS was very fast, & I think it arrived later the same day that I left on the vacation.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:59 AM

I have never had a problem with Elderly. Even one time, they sent me the wrong strings, and sent me the right ones right away.

It's nice to get things quickly - but anytime I mail order, I give anyone two weeks.

Retail can be unpredictable. You think you have something in the warehouse, you go to get it, and it ain't there, because someone else beat you to it. You think, well, okay, we have an order in to the supplier and it's supposed to be here tomorrow. Tomorrow comes and goes, you call your supplier, and they don't have your stuff, they're waiting on the materials from THEIR supplier... meanwhile you have customers waiting.

If you really are unhappy, though, do let them know, and then go get your things elsewhere if you need to.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:56 AM

Banjer,

You're welcome.

I know that The Banjoest has had good luck with First Quality Musical Supplies. I have never used them, but they are very commited to stocking banjo items and their pricing seems very good.

First Quality Musical Supplies

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST,Chip A.
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:39 AM

I've always been very happy with Elderly. The folks I've spoken with over the phone have been extremely helpful. They have played instruments for me to hear and answered every quetion as if I were the most important customer they had. I always recomend them to others. Yes I think the delivery time may be a little slow but I don't order that much from other sources so I'm not too sure. Courtesy, helpfulness, knowledge, selection and price have always been great. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!
Chip

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:37 AM

Nor would I go damning a small business publicly online, before speaking at least once with the person who owns/manages the place.

Of course, I still don't understand why a turnaround time of 2 weeks for a non-rush order is being considered bad service. Sure, some businesses who build a reputation on speed of their deliveries are able to get orders out the door the same day, and to you in three. Question is, how much farther than that are they willing to go with customer service besides speedy delivery, and how knowledgeable and helpful are they about the products?

How fast an order arrives isn't important to me, so long as it is within the stated timeframe the company gives. To me, two weeks is reasonable. If I absolutely need it delivered ASAP, I bite the bullet, and pay for rush service.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 09:05 AM

I never ordered strings from Elderly on-line, but the few other orders I placed there were surprisingly quick and accurate. I never had a problem with the orders, so I don;t know how well they handle complaints. But I can't imagine damning a business based upon a single incident. In the business world; thigs go wrong. Sometimes people who work for you make mistakes, sometimes you have procedures that don;t work well - so you have to fix 'em. That doesn't mean your whole business sucks.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: mooman
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:37 AM

I've had good experiences with mail order from Shoreline Music, who've managed to get orders from California to Belgium within a week on several separate occasions for me.

mooman

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:50 AM

Sorry you had a problem Banj. I have always been pretty satisfied with the delivery times....which means I never noticed if it took a long time and that it arrived. I have always been treated pretty couteously with them as well. I think Mick says it well....and I like to notify people I am not satisfied with too. If this is becoming a problem, I think Stan and all would like to know because it has been pretty good in the past.

Rick, Stew-Mac seems to be okay to me, good stock and all in most cases. I have never mail ordered from them as they are only a few miles down the road.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: bigchuck
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:50 AM

To answer Rick's question, I have always had excellent (and timely) service from Stewart-Macdonald. I do small orders with them 3-4 times a year, get an immediate email to acknowledge the order and another to let me know the order has been shipped. I usually get the order within 3-4 business days.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:37 AM

I dropped Stan Werbin, the owner, a note. He invites any person who has problems of this nature to contact Certainly feel free to suggest that individuals contact directly at [e-mail] - or to the mail order manager Jerry Spencer (He will be out-of-town on Friday and Saturday this week) with any problems and "we'll make sure they are looked into and responded to." Any customer with a problem is encouraged to do this at anytime.

All I can tell you is that I get service that is far and away better than any other place I have shopped. It is the service that keeps me coming back. I remember when I paid over a thousand bucks for a new Irish bouzouki. About a month later the strap broke on the gig bag, the bouzouki fell to the concrete and completely split the top in three places. These guys had no obligation to me, and the builder who supplied the gig bag with his instrument said he wouldn't stand behind it. Stan put his best luthier (and these guys are some of the best there is) on the bouzouki and repaired it, ordered me another custom bouzouki and let me use the repaired one until it arrived. You don't get that anywhere else.

I don't blame Banjer, he has had an unsatisfactory experience. But I have spent many dollars at many stores during my musical journey. I have never received better, more knowledgeable help than I have gotten from this fine establishment.

Mick

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Banjer
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 07:31 AM

Looks like an excelent site Steve, thanks!!!

Tiger, today will make ten days from the day I placed the order. If they don't show up today, I intend to reorder from someone more reliable.

Subject: For Banjer
From: Tiger
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 06:56 AM

I have the same experience, Banjer.

My Elderly orders (by credit card, either phone or web) take about 10 days. They even say that on the phone.

Allow a few days for the mail, even a whole day to pick/pack the order. That leaves about 5 days where the order must sit in a basket somewhere.

They've got me trained now, so I've adjusted to the timing. And I don't ever try rush orders.

It seems incongruous when you consider everything else about them is top notch.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 06:43 AM

I just bought some books & videos from Banjo Supply. They shipped within three hours on two separate occassions. Despite them having to come from Oklahoma to Canada I received them quickly.

Banjo Supply

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Banjer
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 06:19 AM

I used a credit card number which can be approved in a matter of seconds. Why was the girl snotty, I don't know. Maybe she was receiving many other complaints as well. I called right after 9 AM Monday morning. She answered and I explained that I had a question concerning their policies. I then explained how I had placed the order on the 17th and was rather surpised that instead of my order arriving on Friday that I received an e-mail telling it had just been sent out! Her reply was very curt and in a tone of voice that I interpret as rude. Sort of an "if you don't like it, tough" attitude.

Mick, maybe because you live closer to them you were able to receieve your order faster. I can understand that it would take longer to ship to Florida, but what irks me is that it took them from Sunday to Friday to even acknowledge the order.

I did some checking and found the Just Strings site that Justa Picker mentioned. They have the same Labella strings for a few cents more than Elderly.

Most of the time I can get strings and accessories from local shops, such as the new Bluegrass Shop here in St Petersburg. He just doesn't have the nylon 5 string that I need. Suprisingly he carries lap dulcimer strings, though. I have told him of my experience with Elderly and he said he would look to see if any of his suppliers have those available and start stocking them.

All I know is there is a very bad taste for Elderly right now.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 10:38 PM

Hi Banjer. Just out of curiosity, does it make any difference because of how you pay for your order? I haven't a clue....what I DO know is that I've ordered many things from Elderly and the delivery time is highly unpredictable.

Why was the girl you spoke to "snotty"? I think I've always been treated pretty civilly....but then again I haven't phoned with a complaint.

How's people's experience with Stewart MacDonald?

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 10:10 PM

It took me less than a week to get my guitar (shipped UPS) from the 12th Fret, and it had to go through customs!
Newtone Strings took about the same amount of time. I've never ordered anything from Elderly.
BTW, UPS has a page where you can track your parcel if you know the shipping number. (Can get it from the sender.)

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Justa Picker
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:35 PM

You want good string service? order from Just Strings. You'll get better service and they'll cost you less than from just about anywhere else.

(Elderly generally takes about 2 weeks for mail order items. At least that's been my experience with them.)

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: NicoleC
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:14 PM

I've got an order pending from Elderly as well that is taking an inordinate amount of time for a very basic order. I don't think I'll order from them again if they can't get an order out the door in less than a week. Now UPS has it and and they're being dirt slow, too.

I wouldn't mind so much if they clearly posted their turn-around times. This wasn't a rush order, per se, but it looks like I'm not going to see it until after the holiday now, and I'm in the middle of mandolin surgery...

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:13 PM

Ray, this is totally inconsistent with their policy. I will notify Stan of this immediately. Alice, I will also let him know about yours. I just got an order in three days.

Mick

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Banjer
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 09:11 PM

It seems purty ridiculous to compare the Smithsonian's online shopping with Elderly.

WHY???? Mail orders are mail orders, whether placed with a large or small company. It still shouldn't take five days to process a simple prepaid order for something as small as instrument strings. They could be put in an envelope and mailed. What's the big deal?? Further more, they don't provide you with an option on their site to contact them by e-mail, probably because they know they'd be innudated with complaints about their lousy service. When I called this morning just to ask why it took so long to process a simple order a very snotty young lady told me it always take 5 to 7 days to ship any order. If the business I work for was that incosiderate of our customers we probably wouldn't be around any more.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 08:52 PM

It seems purty ridiculous to compare the Smithsonian's online shopping with Elderly. Slight difference in size and magnitude of operations does come to mind. I never fret about anything I've ordered online for at least two weeks. This time of year, even longer.

Alice, how long ago is loooonng?

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Alice
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 08:37 PM

Banjer, I'm in the same boat with you. Still waiting for two sets of guitar strings ordered from Elderly loooonng ago...

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 08:34 PM

Sorry, Bill, I have always had good luck with them.

Subject: RE: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 08:33 PM

Well, I have to say this is the first complaint that have heard about Elderly.

Now, had you used The Twelfth Fret to order Newtones....

Subject: Elderly Music's service sucks!!!
From: Banjer
Date: 25 Nov 02 - 08:28 PM

I know a lot of you sing high praises to Elderly, but I have had it with them. I used their website Sunday the 17th to place an order for three sets of banjo strings, thinking I may have them by Friday. Most places I have ever ordered from have delivered their products within about five days, some even less than that. My wife ordered an item from the Smithsonian Store on Wednesday of this week and it was at our door Thursday from Tennessee. Anyhow, I get home Friday and instead of finding a package at my door, I received an e-mail that informed that the strings had been sent out on the 22nd, that day. Five days to just process such a simple order is just plain ridiculous. I will NEVER use their services again. There are too many companies that like to take care of their customers to have to put up with incopetence of that magnitude.


Rant off.....