Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?

Subject: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:26 PM

I'm wondering if any Mudcat artists are currently working with other anti-war artist coalitions? And wouldn't it be great if we started to compile information on organizations/actions people are involved with?

Here is a link to the UK Stop the War Coalition:

http://www.stopwar.org.uk/

and the release of their CD compilation "Peace Not War" was scheduled for release December 9th:

http://www.peace-not-war.org/

Yesterday, a new group of American artists called Artists United to Win Without War announced their letter to Bush (for Human Rights Day), but I haven't come across a website.

Not in Our Name has had a number of musicians involved with it's events and organizing.

www.notinourname.org

And there is the Artists Network of Refuse and Resist! to create a culture of resistance:

http://www.artistsnetwork.org/index.html

But no matter where I go, I'm not seeing any folk musicians names, except at the UK "Peace not War" website, and even that isn't many.

What's up? What is the folk music community doing? It seems there are a whole lot of folk musicians disengaged from this anti-war effort.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: Just Amy
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:33 PM

Since Guest did use a name, I'm assuming he/she is an Homeland Security Agent looking to put some names onto the "Watch These Folks" list. Nice try, J. Edgar Just Amy - Just a tad bit paranoid.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:34 PM

I meant to include this beautiful page of links from the Lysistrata Project too:

http://www.lysistrataproject.org/arts.htm

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 05:38 PM

JustAmy, have you picked up your Secret Anon Santa pressie yet?

http://www.peaceforchristmas.org./

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:29 PM

I was against the war of genocide Saddam was waging against Kuwait.
Oh, now I remember. The U.S.A. and George Bush were against that one too, and ended it.

Any Mudcat Artists notice that after thumbing its nose at the U.N. (not just at the U.S.) for years, Iraq has let the inspectors back in now that George W. Bush has shown that the U.S means business? Bush is smart enough to know that the ability and willingness to wage war is the most effective way to prevent war.

(No, I'm not giving my name. My Secret Santa may not have mailed my prezzie yet!)

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: dwditty
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:42 PM

We cannot kill our way to love and respect, where our only true security resides.



quote from Granny D

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 07:55 PM

I agree with Just Amy, unless you gives us your name then and only then will I give mine.
And as Amy said we're still waiting.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: Suffet
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:59 PM

Yes, here I am. Stephen L. Suffet, folk musician in New York City, proud to be working with the Peoples' Music Network and sometimes with the Peoples' Voice Cafe. I use my real name, as I have nothing to hide. Do a Google search and you will probably find out more about me than I know about myself.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:25 PM

How many GUESTs does it take to unscrew a lightbulb when they are turning it in opposite directions?

Whatever it takes to stop this war.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:35 PM

Guest, we were not "kicked" out of Iraq. Our inspectors chose to leave because they claimed a lack of cooperation.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: DougR
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 09:51 PM

"Claimed," Kendall? You doubt it?

DougR

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: TIA
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:14 PM

I forget now... which war was it that ended all wars?

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:27 PM

I am absolutly against this war. Bob(deckman)Nelson ... in Everett, Washington, U.S.A.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:30 PM

Which war?

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:39 PM

ooops ... I forgot to mention. I am the third house, just South of 74th, on the West side of the street. My address is on the fence. At my age, you probably don't need to worry that I'm going to hurt you when you come for me. But out of fairness, I should caution you about our 'killer cat'. His name is "Kissa Poika," but don't try to pet him. Oh, and I should tell you that bride Judy is younger than me, and yes, she still does have an attitude. And I'm still against Mr. bushes war. Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: TIA
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:43 PM

GUEST will now ask

Which attitude?

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 10:59 PM

Ain't giggin' much these days but always talkin' peace...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: Troll
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:15 PM

Talk peace AND freedom if you're gonna talk. The one is useless without the other. A world ruled by a ruthless dictatorship would be at "peace" but not very free.
These are two mutually exclusive concepts. You can have either but not necessarily both.
Sometimes people forget that.

troll

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: Charcloth
Date: 11 Dec 02 - 11:22 PM

I don't usually join in on these type threads but...

Do all your arguing & debating BEFORE it starts & Pray it dosn't.

BUT ONCE IT DOES DON'T FORGET TO SUPORT OUR BOYS WHO HAVE TO SERVE & PRAY FOR THIER SAFE RETURN!!

That's all I am gonna say!
CHARCLOTH

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 01:26 AM

I'll support the boys who have to serve any way I can. I will not necessarily support the people who send them into harm's way. You will remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

"In harm's way" is an euphemism: it's "into death's way;" and "into mutilation's way." I haven't seen anything important enough to send boys into those ways since late 1941.

Clint Keller

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 09:59 AM

Hmmmm, apparently I made myself less than clear when I started this thread.

I wasn't looking for people to "name names". What I was hoping for was for artists who are already actively opposing the war and working with/through established *organizations* to share what they were doing and tell us about the organizations they are involved with. That was why I initially provided the names of organizations I knew a lot of artists were already working with.

I do understand some people's reticence to openly admit on the internet that they are doing anti-war work. Many US citizens are now afraid to use their constitutional right of free speech, for fear of retaliation from the government. That in itself is pretty damn frightening (and Troll, I expect you are concerned with the effects the Bush administration's policy is having on US citizens feeling they have lost that basic freedom due to the so-called "war on terrorism"?).

Sorry I brought it up. The folk music community has been known for it's social activism in the past. I guess we won't be known for it now and in the future, if this is where Mudcat is at.

But don't forget to collect your Anon Santa presents:

www.peaceforchristmas.org

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: kendall
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 10:47 AM

I said exactly what I meant Doug. I neither doubt nor believe, just setting the record straight.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:04 PM

The recent revelations that Iraq was months away from completing an atomic bomb before the Gulf War started, should give pause to those who decry even that war. If Saddam had simply waited until he had completed the bomb, before taking Kuwait, he would have had the coalition troops close enough, that even the most primative delivery system whould have worked; and we would have had a vastly different situation in the Gulf. If that was not enough proof that the elder Bush was not 100% correct to go in last time while the foolish twits in the Democrat party wanted to "wait for sanctions to work", then there is no proof that will quiet their pandering babble about when it is "just" to fight a war.

I don't know of anyone who "wants" a war and those who frame the debate in that fashion are dishonest to the core. There is a legimate debate under which circumstances should we engage in combat, and to what extent the Nation's interests are involved in any impending conflict. But to have people who are against any form of "war" debate this issue is counter-productive, since they are not susceptible to any form of logic in the discussion.

While I can imagine a flock of hooting loonies taking flight over that statement, I need only point out that that is why they do not allow those people who are totally against the death penalty to sit on capital cases. But lack of susceptability to logical arguements has never been the basis for withholding opinions, and is a constitutionally protected privledge.

While the President has vast powers not available to leaders of other nations, he does not operate in a vacumn. The fact that even significant portions of the loyal opposition (as well as other nations) are "leaning forward", together with statements and material released by the Iraqis themselves, indicates to me that the situation is reaching a cusp that is much more intense than the simpleminded statements that the President is somehow trying to gain vengance for his father. My suspecion is that Iraq does possess an atomic bomb in some rudimentary form, or is very close to completing one. Now that Jummy Carter is getting a Peace Prize instead of wrecking our intelligence asssets overseas, I belive we are probably talking to Iraqis in the know, and we will end up with some form of the Desdimona type attack, a couple of weeks of "If it flys, it dies...", a couple of Predator attacks on some Iraqi slow learners, and this thing will be a wrap.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:19 PM

I wasn't actually soliciting opinions on the war. I was soliciting information about artists working with anti-war organizations. Claymore, your post above isn't thread drift, it is hijacking to give your pro-war rant.

Again, what I was asking for was if anyone on Mudcat is working as an folk musician with anti-war organizations, to please share some information about the work & the organization.

Thanks Suffet, for your response. But I fear the social justice/anti-war wing of the folk movement is long dead and gone. This thread, at the most active folk music discussion forum on the web, pretty much proves that. It is so sad and disheartening to see how politically and musically irrelevant the folk music scene has become.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:28 PM

Before you make such sweeping generalisations, study the Mudcat and other sources! InOBU has been in the forefront in his area with songs of social commentary/protest.

I am sure there are many more who either don't even know about the Mudcat or don't feel like posting/responding to yet another posting from this particular GUEST who so carefully words her trolling threads.

We all do what we can, where we are at the time and do not have to justify ourselves to such a judgemental nameless one.

kat

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 02:51 PM

I'm expressing disappointment in the mature folk music scene in regards to what I see as a lack of response to the current war on terrorism, the war in Afghanistan, and the preparations for war with Iraq. I just don't see the level of commitment once seen in the folk scene.

In the 'Folk Music on PBS' thread, I provided a link to a great website, done by Maryl Neff, of her study on the American folk music revival. It is the social activist folk music community of that era I am referring to historically, which I believe just plain doesn't exist. Rather, I think the politically active musicians in the contemporary anti-war/civil rights scene are now to be found in alt rock, alt country, and the punk scenes. But the folk scene isn't where this sort of thing is expected or found very often, with a few notable exceptions of course (like Suffet & Peoples Music above).

Here is an excerpt from Maryl's website about the Folk Scare activists:

* * * * * * *

Social activism
According to Seeger (1972), the commercial folk boom died out, leaving behind a number of musicians who either continued to perform anyway, helped pave the way for later country stars, or moved into rock music. Folk-protest singers also came onto the scene. They merged traditional folk music with topical songs to make protest songs and were considered folk heroes of the era. Their music stressed honesty, integrity, and frankness, and the singers, who were pressured to be both politically active and socially relevant, were thrust into the hero's mold (Rodnitzky, 1976).

Certainly the most important factor behind the rise of the protest singer was the general activist climate that permeated collegiate culture in the 1960s. The quiet lethargic generation that inhabited the campuses during Eisenhower's two presidential terms suddenly came to life with a vengeance. . . In the prosperous but rootless 1960s participation was caused, in part, by the search for cultural heroes. (Rodnitzky, 1976, p. xix)

The singers not only sang to protest Vietnam, discrimination, and other issues of the day, but they traveled around the country to support these issues. For example, in 1964, Seeger, Carolyn Hester, Phil Ochs, Eric Anderson, and others joined the Mississippi Caravan of Music where they staged concerts to encourage blacks to register to vote (Eliot, 1979).

Greenwich Village was a haven for the folk protest singers. Among this group were Ochs, Bob Dylan, and Tom Paxton, along with long-established musicians like Seeger. Before 1962, Sing Out! magazine (whose predecessor was People's Songs) was the only folk music publication on the market. From about 1962 to 1972, a publication called Broadside was put out by the joint efforts of Seeger, Agnes "Sis" Cunningham, Gordon Friesen, and Gil Turner. This mimeographed publication was designed to put out the songs of the folk music movement (Eliot, 1979), and included the publication of some of Dylan's earliest material (McKeen, 1993). It also included articles about various protest movements, concerts, festivals, record reviews, and more. Phil Ochs alone contributed more than 70 songs to Broadside and numerous articles (see, e.g., Ochs, 1963; Ochs, 1965).

By the mid-1960s, the war in Vietnam was escalating and so did the protest movement (Berg, 1976). As the protest movement began to wane in the late 1960s, Ochs tried to continue in this vein. He was largely unsuccessful and even tried to become more commercial. Nothing worked. Still, according to a Rolling Stone article written in 1976 just after his tragic suicide, Ochs' second album in 1965 had "firmly established Ochs as the leading protest singer/songwriter" of the era (Flippo, 1976, p. 15). He is still remembered for his commitment to his causes and his impact on the music scene of the 1960s.

Robert Allen Zimmerman, aka Bob Dylan, was another folk-singing phenomenon who headed to Greenwich Village after dropping out of the University of Minnesota (McKeen, 1993). Dylan "confessed to being a 'Woody Guthrie Jukebox' before developing his own songwriting style and helping to launch the 60's folk revival" (Alarik, 1996, p. 36). His breakthrough came with a performance at Gerde's in 1961 that received rave reviews in The New York Times. Soon after, he signed a recording contract with a major label, Columbia (McKeen, 1993). In 1962 he moved into writing protest songs. His song, "Blowin' in the Wind," became the "unofficial anthem of the civil rights movement - and Dylan indirectly became one of its leaders" (Baggelaar & Milton, 1976, p. 114). He continued in the protest vein until 1965.

The turning point
In the mid-1960s, folk-rock - a combination of folk and rock - began to appear. It was a combination of the Beatles and Bob Dylan. In the summer of 1965, as the Vietnam War was escalating, an occurrence at the Newport Folk Festival changed the face of folk music of the era: Bob Dylan went electric and moved on (Berg, 1976). Up to this point, people had latched on to folk music as meaningful music that saved them from their alienation from the mainstream. But now many people began to see the music as another form of popular music. "[A]nd for them, the discovery of electric blues brought things full circle, leading to the revitalization of rock" (Rosenberg, 1985, p. 196).

Now rock and folk were no longer opposites. "In that sense, Newport '65 was both a beginning and an end" (Rosenberg, 1985, p. 196). It was in Newport that Pete Seeger saw his topical folk song movement fall apart (Dunaway, 1981). Now the revival, which had been split between the traditionalists and those doing their own music, was split again between those who endorsed the electric folk and those who did not. Record companies like Elektra, along with a number of musicians including the great Bob Dylan, turned to rock music (Rosenberg, 1985).

By the late 1960s, the folk-protest scene was winding down ("Concert Reviews," 1969). In the early '70s, the Vietnam War was winding down as well. The folk music that was so popular in the '60s and early '70s was no longer being heard on commercial radio, and many thought it had died out completely. But the scene continued in the 1970s and 1980s at a more grassroots level.

* * * * * * *

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: pattyClink
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 03:36 PM

Guest, you are mighty self-righteous for someone who won't identify him/her/itself.   So you're sad, disappointed, yada yada, in the folk movement, but you don't have the courage to give even a pseudonym.....oh why are we talking to a troll.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 03:54 PM

Chumbawumba's website has excellent information here, including some links to UK's Stop the War Coalition, that just put out the "Peace Not War" CD, and a very nice article on Cooper, Boyes & Simpson. Nice to see a pop group giving kudos to folkies like that. Too bad we so rarely can find it within ourselves to do the same. Must be the folk music begrudgery gene. ;-)

http://www.chumbawamba.org/

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:08 PM

Last night on The Daily Show on Comedy Central, Jon Stewart very cynically did an excellent job of damning and mocking the group Artists United to Win Without War. They were mocked, and Mike Farrell (he of MASH fame), who has been a long time Hollywood political activist, was shown misspeaking in making his hurried, closing marks in a CNN interview.

The Daily Show didn't bother to mention that the group was holding a press conference on Human Rights Day, to release their letter to President Bush, so using the Mike Farrell footage made this appear as if the entire thing was vacuous and meaningless attempts at actors looking for PR. There seems to be a serious effort being made by mainstream media (including the late night comedy hosts) to discredit any and all efforts of artists using their celebrity status to draw attention to the silencing of dissenting views by the mainstream media.

Here, however, is the most positive coverage I have yet seen from the mainstream media, on this event. Sadly, it comes from Europe.

From CNN Europe:

Celebrities speak out against war
Wednesday, December 11, 2002 Posted: 0347 GMT

CNN) -- A coalition of celebrities is pushing the Bush administration to stay out of war with Iraq. The celebrities have signed a letter to the president saying war would "increase human suffering, arouse animosity toward our country, increase the likelihood of terrorist attacks, damage the economy and undermine our moral standing in the world. It will make us less, not more, secure."

Actor Martin Sheen makes presidential decisions on the NBC TV series, "The West Wing," and now Sheen has an urgent message for his real-life counterpart at the White House. Sheen spoke Tuesday with CNN Correspondent Charles Feldman.

FELDMAN: Martin Sheen, let me ask you something. Let me pretend -- with all deference, that I'm president of the United States right now.

SHEEN: Please.

FELDMAN: Why would I care -- why would I care about what a group of artists has to say about U.S. foreign policy, vis-a-vis Iraq? Why should I care?

SHEEN: I think that the president should care about all its citizens' opinions, and particularly about matters of war and peace. There's so much at stake. You can't put the bullet back in the gun once it's been fired. That's mainly why we're here today ... we're trying to get the attention of the people who feel that this is a fait accompli, [to] speak out, to say no to war, and yes to life.

FELDMAN: But if you think, as you've said a number of times here, that this is already a done deal, that we're going to go marching into Iraq ...

SHEEN: Yes, with the administration.

FELDMAN: Then, what's the good of all of this?

SHEEN: Well, how would we feel if we did not speak up before the fact? We are assuming it's a done deal. In the way they're talking and presenting their plans, it's a done deal. If we wait until after the fact, then I think we're missing the point.

FELDMAN: Has this been a divisive issue for Hollywood? Is this something that you find difficult selling to fellow actors?

SHEEN: No, no. We're not trying to sell anything. We're just trying to arouse a true patriotism, not just in our industry, but your industry as well as all the others, and that is that we love our country enough to risk its wrath by calling attention to its dark spots, the areas that it's blind to, that will eventually cause a great sickness in our culture.

FELDMAN: Let me ask you something. One of my colleagues during the news conference asked you a question. Let me re-ask it. What happens, Martin Sheen, what happens if you're wrong?

SHEEN: About what?

FELDMAN: About a pre-emptive strike against Iraq. Suppose you are wrong. Suppose that is what's needed?

SHEEN: I don't understand how I would be wrong. Would there not be countless innocent civilians killed in Iraq with a pre-emptive strike? Do you discount that? Is that not right enough to speak at now? I was just at the funeral -- I announced earlier -- of Philip Berrigan, [the peace activist priest] who passed away this past week, and this was the quote that they used on his prayer card, and I want to share it with you.

"Peacekeeping is not only a central characteristic of the gospel. Peacemaking is the greatest need of the world today. We are the daughters and sons of God, and that means we are called to be peacemakers, whether we like it or not. It's a responsibility of all of us to pursue peace for its own sake, for the sake of the future for our children."

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:35 PM

Links to full sized anti-war photos/posters for free use, per the DC Indymedia website:

http://web.webaccess.net/~rtmyers/iww/beneathourbombs.jpg

http://web.webaccess.net/~rtmyers/iww/beneathourbombs2.jpg

http://web.webaccess.net/~rtmyers/iww/beneathourbombs3.jpg

http://web.webaccess.net/~rtmyers/iww/beneathourbombs4.jpg

Sadly, many Americans know little about the situation in Iraq. According to the United Nations, many hundreds of thousands of Iraq's children have died due to a decade of harsh sanctions. Many deaths are caused by diseases transmitted through polluted drinking water and other unsanitary conditions. Such illnesses could be easily cured. Yet individuals who send food or medicine to these children without state approval are slapped with $10,000 fines.

Meanwhile, efforts to tie Iraq's dictator Saddam Hussein to the destruction of the World Trade Center have not been persuasive. What seems more likely is that the pending war against Iraq is being orchestrated at the behest of multinational oil interests.

Information on the situation in Iraq, and on efforts of dedicated individuals to effect change, may be found at this link:

http://www.ccmep.org

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:43 PM

And here for anti-war cartoon posters to print for free too:

http://www.sinkers.org/posters/newwar/

Site asks that you honor Martin Luther King the RIGHT way: SPEAK OUT FOR PEACE!

Help build support for the January 20th rally at the Lincoln Memorial, Washington, DC, to honor Martin Luther King's memory by speaking out for peace and freedom. Why go to another lame-assed parade this year?

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 04:49 PM

And don't forget to pick up your very own, free Christmas gift from the Mudcat Anon Santa here:

www.peaceforchristmas.org

Be all that you can be, and join the army of recruiters for peace this holiday season!

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: JedMarum
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 05:05 PM

Truth is there are lot of Mudcatters and other musicians who support the US and UN's stand on the possible/probably war with Iraq.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 05:09 PM

Thanks Jed, you said it much better, with far fewer words...

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 05:14 PM

I will let my songs do my talking... Larry (Lorcan) Otway InOBU
Ghosts of our nation
word, Lorcan Otway all rights reserved
Tune The Shamrock Shore.

Farewell to the land, of Jefferson and Franklin
Farewell to the dreams of the good Thomas Paine
We have sacrificed our freedom, on the altar of security
and I fear we may not soon see the likes of both again,
For this land was more than a flag or a slogan
this land was more than its rocks or its clay
This land was a gift given us by great thinkers
a dream which lesser men have now cast away


The rule of law is hobbled and no rights are now held sacred
except the right to steal and plunder in the name of corporate greed
While bible thumping patriots, in the guise of elder statesmen
rob for the wealth of few from the people in most need
Now our prisons are full of the men of no property
and back alleys are filled with the hopeless and insane
but still we are told, that this is the land of liberty
and told to ignore those whom our country causes pain

Who can hold up their head, and proud proclaim their homeland
while leaders whet the assassins knife by stealth upon the road
this is not the act of a land of law and of justice
no mater who the target, we must live by legal code
What light of hope now shines in the halls of Philadelphia
what words of bravery speak out from the senate floor
what black thoughts now taint with blood, the hopes of a nation
when politician pimps make sweet liberty their whore

But I cast my gaze, to the hills of our history,
while I stake my few hopes on the words of our past
For while a spark shines on, in the ashes of these ruins
the light of freedom's fires may dispel the shadows cast
And each one of you, who remembers where we came from
proclaim your love liberty and reject the cynics sneer
cast fear upon the pyre of the promises of tyrants
turn away from craven cowards, and true hearts now draw near.


Scales of Revenge

Words Lorcan Otway, Tune Traditional, Willy Of Windsburry from the singing of the great Anne Briggs.

Oh America's fired a cruse missile, and it's killed my brother's son
Now I must put my hopes aside and learn the way of the gun
Oh why and how can they do such things, why bring such grief to me
Now I will go and seek revenge for my faith and my dignity

Oh some men from Saudi Arabia, have killed my old school friend
He was never a part of any war, why bring him this awful end?
Oh why and how can they do such things, why bring this grief to me,
Now I will go and seek revenge for my friend and for my country

Oh the helicopters came last night, and we fled into the dark
But American bullets flew from above, killing my wife, my love,
Oh why and how can they do these things, why bring this grief to me,
As generations of Afghans before, I'll defend this poor country

My son, my son, he will never return, in a foreign war he lies slain
He was fighting for his home and hearth, on some barren Afghani plain
Oh why and how can they do these things, why bring such grief to me
Send troops send troops, to far Iraq, to stop this insanity

And here I sit and I watch the world, as blood is shed for blood
And I can only wonder why and how can we stem this flood
Oh why oh how can they do such things, on justice's bloody path,
And who will be left to say in the end, we've balanced the scales at last

Don't stop, don't stop for our martyred dead, or one inch of blood soaked soil,
But stop oh stop for the love of your child, in fields of hope now toil
Oh how oh why can't we begin, by putting grief behind
We can not ever pay for the dead, by paying another in kind.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 05:53 PM

Thank you, Larry. Very moving and poignant songs.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 06:29 PM

Jed and Claymore--guys, guys, guys. I know there are many Mudcat Artists For the War. I'm not trying to silence you, censor you, or even fence with you. All I really want to do, is...

...get Mudcat artist/activists who are AGAINST the war, talking about what they and other artist/activists they know, are doing. Telling us about the organizations they are familiar with, what they are familiar with--just a sharing of information. You see? Not a debate. I'm happy for all the folk who are "if you are not for us you are against us" For the War Folkies. You all are, of course, free to come into this thread to tell everyone that Our War Is Good, Their War Is Bad, and we so we should all be for Our Good War.

Have it at.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 06:35 PM

BTW, Jed & Claymore, have YOU collected our Anon Santa gifts yet? Get on over there now...

www.peaceforchristmas.org

Peace on Earth on katlaughing, on InOBU (fine songmaking!), on pattyClink, and kendall! On DougR, on Suffet, on Troll and on Charcloth! To the top of the thread, to the top of the world--now peace on you, peace on earth, peace on us all!

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: michaelr
Date: 12 Dec 02 - 09:55 PM

Charcloth -- there is no draft; it's a volunteer army.

No one HAS to serve. Those who go to war will reap what they sow. Unfortunately, so will many innocents, both there and here.

Guest who started this thread -- Most Mudcat folkies are in their fifties and sixties. Activism is a young person's game, and there are many peace workers in every generation.

And then there's Billy Bragg.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 01:06 AM

now you know my name and where I come from, I would like to live in a peacful world but I know that I can't.
Just as long as we have war hungry men and women ruling us, get rid of them and then maybe we can all live in peace and have freedom as well.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 04:42 PM

Remember, Mudcat is a great comedy of errors, not to be taken seriously. The place is full of Leftover Leftists, and folk music the soundtrack for their anti-anti-war lives.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:34 PM

Remember, Mudcat is a great comedy of errors, not to be taken seriously. The place is full of Leftover Leftists, and folk music the soundtrack for their anti-anti-war lives. ???
Having been on the front lines of a war, as a combat photographer, I do take our music serriously. As an anonimous Troll, who the hell knows what your credentials are... so who is not to be taken serriously...
Peace in the New Year
Larry

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:35 PM

I'd rather be a left wing person who love peace and not war, unlike some right wing warmongers
like Tony Blair and George Bush, and their followers
I can't understand how anyone in Britain who calls themselves Left wing and still be a member of the the New Labour party who is really a right wing party just the same as the Tories.

Subject: RE: Any Mudcat Artists Against the War?
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Dec 02 - 08:44 PM

Damn but it is hard to tell if we have several guests, one who makes a point badly, or has a split personality... take the bag off your head mate... Larry