Gangs of New York - music

Subject: Gangs of New York Soundtrack
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Nov 02 - 10:20 AM

Has anyone heard anything about the Gangs of New York soundtrack, and who might be on it? The only information I could find online says that Bono of U2 was involved, but I'm wondering if there were any well known traditional musicians involved.

Di Caprio and Diaz look awful in the extreme--the 15 second sound byte of their stage Oirish accents is inexcusably bad for a motion picture of this size & the director's stature. Perhaps it will have something like a good soundtrack, and performances by better actors like Daniel Day Lewis and Jim Broadbent to salvage the saga.

Subject: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 10:57 AM

Well, saw GONY, and I know from discussions with others it will be a divisive movie. Some will love it and some will hate it and in many cases for the same reasons. I disliked it, thought it badly directed, acted, and written, & though visually interesting, musically very unsatisfying. I think U2's song is worthless, and the music throughout the film is SO much in the background it might as well not have been there. In one scene you can hear a street singer. I think to myself, 'That sounds like Maura O'Connell' and sure enough you get a glimplse of her crossing the street with a fiddler walking behind her. No reason for the song in context of the film, except perhaps as part of the 'rich' background, all the critics mention. Finbar Furey makes an appearance, also singing, but I couldn't recognize either the man or the voice in this role, just interesting to me that he's in it. Linda Thompson is on the soundtrack, but I don't have a clue as to where or when the song by her occurs in the film, or if she appears in a cameo or not. At least there is not a bodhran in the film, they got that much right at least, unlike the Titanic. Don't know how much of Harvey Weinstein's paws are all over this print, and may look for a Director's cut in a few years to see the film Scorsese wanted to release, but can't recommend it at all. DiCaprio and Diaz are no shows, Day Lewis is the new winner of the most over the top performance of all time, beating out such hams as Robin Williams, Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Streep by a long shot. Gave up counting the different accents he uses. Liam Neeson is believable, but dispatched early in the film. Sets are confusing, final fight scene is ridiculous in the 'why doesn't he just kill him when he has the chance, instead of toying with him, and then getting killed himself' in a sudden 'fog' or whatever it was supposed to be, smoke from cannon fire? Hope the musicians got paid at least, but a forgettable movie, especially after a long hot shower, and if you kept your eyes closed for some of the gore.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 11:28 AM

Well Bill, if it makes you feel any better, it had an appallingly bad opening weekend gross--under $10 mil for a $100 mil film, and came in something like 4th or 5th behind stellar stuff like J Lo's new movie.

As I said in the holiday movie thread, I think Scorcese is over rated as a director. I am much more interested in seeing the new Spike Lee film with Edward Norton in it.

I read something interesting today about The Two Towers, though. Apparently, not many women saw the first movie, so the trailers and publicity for Two Towers has attempted to draw in more female viewers by focusing on the love stuff. Which explains why the Liv Tyler trailer needed a crane shot of her cleavage, I suppose.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 11:56 AM

I saw the first LOTR, and as one who has not yet read the books, I loved it. But I like action pictures and don't really give a hoot about the romance part.

I hate the way Liv Tyler talks in real-life. She sounds like a 10 year old girl.

Anyway..... I am intrigued by Gangs of New York and if I don't get to the theater to see it, I'll rent it later on.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 12:41 PM

Well, the problem with the film, besides very bad acting by it's primary characters (I can't believe how awfully bad the Irish accents are in this film), is purportedly the screenplay/story itself.

The film as we see it went through quite a few re-writes before Jay Cook came in to save Scorcese's ass. Cook also did the uncredited "save the Titanic" script. That in itself should tell you something.

But to me, the worst problem with this film is that so many will consider this to be the "true story" of New York, when nothing could be further from the truth. Scorcese loosely based his screenplay/story on the book "The Gangs of New York: An Informal History of the Underworld" by a guy named Herbert Asbury. It is one book in a gruesomely colorful (in a yellow journalism sort of way) SERIES of true crime genre books, and it was published in the 1920s. The author also wrote true crime books on the "underworld" crime scense of San Francisco, Chicago, New Orleans, etc. In other words, it was big bucks sensationalist writing of the worst sort. Such is the power of Hollywood mythologizing, we will now have a popular history that barely reflects the reality of the true history.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Maryrrf
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 02:05 PM

Well, I probably won't go to see the movie but will wait till it shows up on TV. But it sounds like it's typical Hollywood "we will now have a popular history that barely reflects the reality of the true history". Pretty much what I expected and it's a shame, because "real" history would be just as interesting as the made up stuff!

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Steve-o
Date: 23 Dec 02 - 04:49 PM

Right, GUEST, ol' Marty's always making those throw-away pieces of cinematic fluff like the Godfather trilogy, Good Fellas, Taxi Driver....the man just can't get a grip on real, historically correct American stories. A real sell-out, that guy.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 02:13 AM

Haven't seen any films yet. Looking for one that has music by...Spike JONES!!!. I must have misread the advert!

IMHO Leonardo Di Caprio is an over rated humanbeing much less actor. I can't say I ever liked him. Celtic Storm leaves me cold(the Titanic "band").

I'm a curmudgeon, though, so I should be ignored.

I truly believe that Oh Brother is alone in having appropriate music.

Some reach, few grasp.

CB

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 07:59 AM

'Real' history can be far more interesting than the made up stuff. E.g. Pocahontas.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: RangerSteve
Date: 24 Dec 02 - 08:38 PM

Sometimes, the real thing is so fascinating that a fictional version can't come close. There's a book by Luc Sante called "Low Life". It's a history of New York's seemier side from the New Amsterdam days up through the 1920's. It beats out any fiction about New York.

I have the same feelings about the Mafia - Good Fellas was a great movie, and the book it's based on - Wise Guys - was even better. The Godfather left me cold. The difference between real and fictional Mafia is like the difference between really good European chocolate and a bottle of YooHoo.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: TonyK
Date: 25 Dec 02 - 01:41 AM

I liked the movie but I agree it has some problems. I thought Daniel Day-Lewis was great and DiCaprio very flat in his role, possibly intimidated by Day-Lewis' acting. I gave up on movies being historically accurate. As for over-the-top, I thought Hackman, in the Royal Tennenbaums, was hard to watch.
Tony K

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York -
From: ex-pat
Date: 06 Jan 03 - 10:29 PM

Mmm, you lot didn't seem to like the film. I saw it today and it is an absolute must see for any re-enactors out there.
Great story, I enjoyed the acting, some really interesting characters, nice sets and the music was secondary but I will seek out the soundtrack, some good stuff there.
This film should feature at the Oscars. A "man's film" maybe, but my lady loved it too.
If you can handle life as it maybe was 150 years ago....check it out.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 07 Jan 03 - 01:43 PM

I really liked it, though I can only recommend it for people with strong stomachs--somebody gets sliced up messily about every five minutes. I have quite developed a fear of sharp blades. But then I would watch Daniel Day-Lewis read the alphabet on "Sesame Street."

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music , naah, but words?
From: GUEST,an pluimeir ceolmhar on location
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 09:13 AM

GONY OTT? Never! There were several passages of a good 3 or 4 minutes each without a trace of haemoglobin.

Just saw it this weekend after it opened here. I feel that there's a story to be told - in fact several stories are touched upon - but it just doesn't happen in this movie. So all you folklorists, are there any songs that tell at least part of the tale, whether it be the gangs, the ethnic rivalry, the persistence of a very British class system after independence or a lack of total commitment to the Civil War in the North?

One of the film's merits is to show the closeness in time of several events that we tend to consider separately when thinking of history in discrete periods - such as a living memory of the war of Independence, the Civil War, the Irish Famine and the California gold-rush. One of the strongest scenes was at the end after the actors had departed, where successive time-lapse-style shots show the decay of the cemetery. It would have had more strength if it had at least begun to show the transition from mob violence to something approaching democratic politics, but it turned its back on this option.


On the music, I was proud of myself for identifying Finbar Furey's voice, even if I had to sit through ten minutes' credits for everyone from the tea lady to the guy who washes Weinstein's limo before seeing his name to confirm the identification. Missed Maura O'Connell whom I haven't heard for years, I would have guessed a Dolores Keane clone.

BTW, I don't like to slag Hollywood attempts at Irish accents too hard, but a minimum of consistency for each character would be appropriate, and there are now enough good dialogue coaches in the business, so when a single character does a dialectal tour of the thirty-two counties it's a bit hard to take. I love the cameo where Di Caprio's character recognises a fellow-Kerryman by his _Dublin_ accent.

And BTBW, Bill, there was a bodhran somewhere, not as one of the ethnomusicological local colour features but as a sound-track solo to set a very threatening tone for the following scene. But forgive me if I'm reluctant to sit through the whole thing again to say where it occurred.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 09:46 AM

The author also wrote true crime books on the "underworld" crime scenes of San Francisco, Chicago, New Orleans...

So does this mean that instead of "Gangs of New York II" and so forth it was envisaged there might be "Gangs of San Francisco" "Gangs of New Orleans" and so forth? A bit like the Carry on Films.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Alice
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 11:14 AM

Surfing tv channels last night, I happened to see U2 receive the Golden Globe award for music for the film. The competition in the music category didn't seem very challenging, though.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 11:36 AM

Oh dear, doesn't sound too good to me. I had been hoping for the best with this film. If the accents are as bad as that wanker Cruise in Far and Away I'm not even going to watch it when it comes on the tv.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 11:47 AM

Scorcese won the Golden Globe for best director, but not because there is widespread critical acclaim for this particular film (there isn't). Considering the powerhouse of young turk directors he was up against, it was obvious the Hollywood community decided it was time to give one to Scorcese. He has never won an Oscar or a Golden Globe.

U2 were just embarrassing, preening themselves over their association with Scorcese's greatness.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 01:09 PM

I hated it, if they Irish accents why don't ther hire Irish people. Failing that, Why don"t they hire decent actors. A load of drivel.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 02:18 PM

Moving in a level, the evolution of the movie, it's backers, the movers and connectors behind the scenes, leaves me wondering how useless the LA grapevine is. They seem now to select actors based on who they sleep/t with, what parties they attend, who's kids they happen to be and so on, rather than talent, result bonked out ugly clumsy clowns.

The script is so full of serious historical lies, most of all the chronology of the created events which never happened, that it begs the question how stupid have the Hollywood nerds become? so in summary and using an Italian analogy they began with bad wine bags into which they poured the worst wine they could have found if they looked... so

it is a flop.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 02:50 PM

The most expensive Scorcese flop of all time. A colossal waste of movie making resources & money. They should have shot Scorcese, not praised him. A Golden Globe will only encourage him.

OTOH, the most brilliant NY movie made in decades, The 25th Hour, is being completely ignored. Why? Black director, hugely unpopular in Hollywood. He wasn't even nominated for the director gong.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 03:37 PM

I read a couple of Asbury's crime books when I was in about the 7th grade, I think. At that level I enjoyed them, but my response probably would be negative now, just as it is to Sax Roemer's Fu Manchu books.

The young like a lot of blood and guts- maybe that is the audience the film is directed toward.

New York did have some interesting times- during part of the late 19th century, the police and special cops kept common people out of the upper class and financial districts. Not much attention was paid to what went on in the immigrant and poor areas as long as it didn't spill over into the respectable, middle and upper class districts.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,celtorama
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 04:02 PM

Some corrections:
Steve-o - The Godfather Trilogy was directed by Coppola, yes?
Coyote Breath - The band in Titanic was 'Gaelic' Storm not 'Celtic'.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 04:38 PM

Correct, he didn't do the Godfather. He is most famous for Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, Goodfellas (and his association with De Niro).

Early on, he directed as much crap as he did good stuff. Lest we forget Boxcar Bertha and Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. Or Last Temptation of Christ. Or Kundun.

Some other films which made him immensely popular were The Last Waltz (the Band), Cape Fear (De Niro again), Casino, and Age of Innocence.

I've always felt he was an overrated director. He is good, but he ain't god.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jan 03 - 04:48 PM

Thanks for the reviews. We figured they were pushing it so much trhough extensive advertising that it must be in trouble or not expected to perform well.

We watched a program on the History Channel, I think it was, that told some of the real gangs of NYC. It seemed fairly good but I wondered if the History Channel was a backer of GONY because there were so many ads for it during the show, plus they almost meshed the show with ad clips for the movie, almost blurring the what was real/what wasn't in their programming.

Drive me nuts when actors don't stick to one accent, too!

kat

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 10:44 AM

There never was a gang called "The Dead Rabbits" and the firefighters were called "The Bowery B'hoys" as a general description, not as a gang name. Day-Lewis's character was long dead by the time the draft riots occured. Etc., etc. GONY wasn't even close to being historically accurate.

The Old Brewery "tenement" was fairly accurately depicted and it's take over by the Methodist missionaries was close to being correct.

The book, "Gangs of New York" by Herbert Asbury was a sensationalist piece of paddy-bashing.

Many of the Irish residents of Five Points came from the Landsdowne estate, sent to America because it was cheaper to pay their passages than to pay the "poor tax" (this during "Black '47").

Source: Five Points (the 19th century New York City neighborhood that invented tap dance, stole elections, and became the world's most notorious slum) by Tyler Anbinder.

CB

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: PageOfCups
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 01:33 PM

Bless your heart, Coyote Breath, for mentioning _Five Points_. I was just about to do so. FASCINATING book - most of it reads like a novel. (I wished I had a scorecard for the chapter on the ward's politics - I got confused who was who.) Too bad Scorcese didn't base his movie on this one instead!!

PoC
waiting for the DVD to come out

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:27 PM

Hi Coyote Breath, sorry there was a gang call the Dead Rabits. Here's a song about them & the Bowery Boys. First from the sleeve notes of June Lazare on Folkways #FH5276 "Folk Songs of New York City", 1966. (I don't know if it's at all possible to get your hands on it anymore.


"In the 1800's the 6th ward of Manhattan contained some of the worst slums of the city. It was from these slums that many of the most infamous gangs developed, bearing such colorful names at the 'Roach Guards', the 'Plug Uglies', the dead Rabbits', & the Bowery (her spelling not mine). All the gangs, as a matter of course, fought each other indiscriminately, but the latter 2 gangs were particulary hostile to each other & maintained a vicious feud.

The perticular battle discribed in the song was touched off by a raid on the Bowery Boy's clubhouse at #47 Bowery. The BBs successfully defended their stronghold, but the following morning when the DRs wrecked their favorite hangout, the Green Dragons & the BBs came rushing furiously into battle.

The 2 gangs clashed head-on at Bayard St & there followed one of the most ferocious encounters in the already turbulent history o NYC. As they fought other gangs came rushing in to assist their allies. The melee reached such porportions that the militia was called in to assist the outnumbered police force. After 2 days of desprate fighting the combined strength ot the police & the militia finally quelled the conflict. After the rioters collected their daed & wounded, the inhabitants of the area crept back to rebuild their shattered homes as best they could.   

"Dead Rabbits Fight with the Bowery Boys- July 4, 1857

1.)

They had a dreadful fight, upon last Saturday night

The papers gave the news accordin

Guns, pistols, clubs * sticks, hot water & old bricks

Which drove them on the other side of Jordan

CH.)
Then pull off the old coat & roll up the sleeve

Bayard is a street to travel

Then pull off the old coat & roll up the sleeve

The bloody 6th is a hard ward to travel, I believe

2.)

Like wild dogs they did fight this 4th of April night

Of course they laid their plans accordin

Some were wounded& some were killed & lots of blood was spilled

In the fight on the other side of Jordan

CH.)
3.)

The new police did join the BBs in line

With orders strict & right accordin

Bullets, clubs & bricks did fly & many groan & died

Hard road to travel over Jordan

CH.)

4.)

When the police did interfere, this made the Rabbits sneer

And very much enraged them accordin

With bricks they did go in, determined for to win

And drive them on the other side of Jordan

CH.0

5.)
At last the battle closed, yet few that night reposed

For frightful were their dreams accordin

For the devil on 2 sticks was a marching on the bricks

All night on the other side of Jordan


I hope this was worth while in this tread, I haven't seen the movie & I've only heard about it hear. Barry

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Barry Finn
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM

I should've just asked, what was the time period of this film? Just a point to note after the turn of the century, along with the 5 Points Gang, this area (& a few others like Hell's Kitchen) & these gangs produced the likes of Arnold Rothstien (he fixed the 1919 Black Sox's game) & with him came (under AR's Wing) Charles "Lucky" Luccciano, Mayher Lansky & Buggsy Seagle (the latter 2 both originally of the Bugs & Mayher gang), among others. Lucky was famous at forging criminal enterprizes as was the finicial genius, Mayher. So it could probably be said of this area that it may be the birth place of America's organized crime syndicate. Barry

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Liam's Brother
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM

O should've I pediu apenas, o que era o período de tempo desta película? Apenas um ponto à nota após a volta do século, junto com os 5 pontos do grupo, desta área (& de alguma outra como a cozinha do inferno) & destes grupos produziu os gostos de Arnold Rothstien (reparou o jogo dos 1919 Sox pretos) & com ele veio (sob a asa de AR) Charles Luccciano "afortunado", Mayher Lansky & Buggsy Seagle (o últimos 2 ambos originalmente do grupo dos erros & do Mayher), entre outros. Afortunado era famoso no criminoso do forjamento enterprizes como era o gênio finicial, Mayher. Assim poderia provavelmente ser dito desta área que pode ser o lugar do nascimento do syndicate organizado do crime de América. Barry

Easy for you to say Barry!

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Mark Ross
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 06:57 PM

Dan,
    Would you mind translating that into English?

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:24 PM

I don't see many films anymore. Considering that "Gangs of New York" takes place in the city where I've lived for the last 42 years and is about a period of history that I study, write and sing about, I was delighted to hear the film was being made. I enjoyed going to the theatre and I liked what I saw. I didn't expect a documentary. It's a Hollywood film made in Italy with some big stars who're not great actors and some great actors who're not big stars but it was a film about an area and time I care for... rather than another cop or beach flick.

Historical inaccuracies? Sure, I expected them. There are plenty beyond the obvious expanded time frame. New York had a lot of black seamen during the mid-19th century. Many lived in Five Points when they were not at sea, often in the same houses and same beds as Irish immigrants. Castle Garden (where I hang my hat 3 days a week) opened in 1855 as America's first immigrant depot. If you traveled to New York in steerage 1855-1889, you passed through Castle Garden so the scene showing immigrants recruited for the Civil War on the piers as they landed would have to be incorrect. Were Irish heavily recruited during the war? Yes, but the single largest immigrant group in the army were the Germans. The Irish followed closely behind.

I thought U2 entirely inappropriate and actually just crappy as a rock band.

I've noticed that often when I sing a period song for punters not used to folk music or interested in history, they will often interrupt me after the first verse or two... actually speak to me while I'm singing. While the film was long, the music bits were short... just a verse or two... consistent with the punters' view of folk music. How about that!

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 08:28 PM

Not at all, Mark. I noticed earlier that Mudcat now has a pop up translation feature. That foreign stuff is what Barry wrote at 11 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM translated in pseudo-Portugese. Hope you and Barry are both well.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: fat B****rd
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 07:14 AM

Speaking of Lansky and co.there's a great book (I THINK!!) called "Tough Jews" by Rich Cohen. Just thought I'd put me two penneth in....

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Inefectual
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 02:01 PM

Yeah I think U2 are the Coke a Cola of Rock - I used to support them
because they were Irish - that's my blood, not my ethos in fact given
the choice I AM AMERICAN -

That song-RUBBISH. The only reason it did well is it got drilled
into peoples heads from all the AIRPLAY. (You know all you ex-pats
supporting the lads from the old sod - DJs take note) I know because
I started humming it one day to my discust!. They live in the old
sod for the TAX BREAKS.

U2 4 monkeys with no insight, passion or SOUL.
Hiring the best producers and MARKETING MARKETING MARKETING.

PS. They don't even dress themselves!!!

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,I know how to make EVEN more money
Date: 12 Apr 03 - 02:19 PM

Guess what U2 are just as scary as Coke a Cola. I hear Bonzo
say GOD is in the house at his gigs. Do you know why?

I hear creating your OWN church is the biggest money spinner.
did you ever notice those ahemm-home made placards in the
audience- that just happen to make it into the Press photos
of useyou on stage.

Beware hold on to your MONEY!!!

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Apr 03 - 05:20 PM

The placard reads
-OUR CHURCH-

So U2 are a church now? So who do U2 serve?

How much property do they own?
How many are homeless?

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,David to Golliath
Date: 15 Apr 03 - 05:30 PM

Bono's lyrics are drivel eg. ...don't make your dreams to hard...

Talk to Ted Turner that amazing man of CNN fame, who let it be
known the public domain that his father's dream was to become
a millionaire, he did, got fed up and committed suicide.

Make your dreams humongous.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Partygirl
Date: 15 Apr 03 - 05:32 PM

My dream is to bridge the gap between God and Luc.
                Imagine

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Certified
Date: 15 Apr 03 - 05:35 PM

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Oh Yeah!
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:22 AM

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,Johnny
Date: 16 Apr 03 - 06:26 AM

"i could be wrong, i could be right...."

Have a nice day.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Brían
Date: 17 Apr 03 - 08:01 AM

here's a link to information on slang used in the movie: DEAD RABBITS

Brían

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 08:14 AM

I just watched this again. Though Hollywood's known for taking liberties with history I was surprised that they tried to curb themselves on this one. The time stretch flounders between pre to post Civil War, aw, it's only a few years. Like Dan (hi Dan) I also find this time & place interesting even if I don't live in either & BTW it's only a movie not a doc. The fight did occur, the date was July 4, 1857 (though in song there's a mention of 8/4) & it was between the Dead Rabbits & the Bowery Boys & their rivalry out shown all of the other gang rivalries. As in the movie the 2 gangs were joined by others including the Plug Uglies, Roach Guards, the Hudson Dusters, the Potashes, the Gophers & 2 pirate gangs, the Daybreak Boys who operated on the East River piers & the Charlton Street Boys who operated their own sloop from the Hudson docks up to Poughkeepsie & actually flying the Jolly Roger. The Indian figure seen in a shot of what is supposed to be the inside of Tammany Hall dates back to Tammany Hall's roots as a benefactor to Native Americans. The Great Police Fight (or the city hall riot) had just occurred on June 17 1857 between the Municipal police (it's said they may have sided with the Bowery Boys) & the Metropolitan police departments which is why the movie would be showing the Militia being called in to put down the gang war which again is truth, the fighting lasted 2 days. The song "By the Hush wouldn't've been heard at this point in time (note the dates of the fight to the Civil War). Though the sea shanty "New York Girls" was timely enough, the singing of the chorus "can't ya dance the polka" was more popular in the 1860's due to the new dance the Polka which was sweeping the US & Europe at this time, where the chorus "ya love us for our money" would've been the older, more popular up well until the 40's. Boss Tweed was one of the more powerful bosses at Tammany Hall mainly by getting the Irish vote & everyone worked with the gangs. I guess what you have to do to make a movie & what yo have to do to sell the movie, I don't think it was all that shabby.

Barry

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: Blowzabella
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 08:48 AM

Haven't seen the film but I know that some friends of mine were involved with the soundtrack - Robin Jeffrey, Robert White and Tim Laycock. Tim would have been playing concertina, I imagine, Robin usually plays fretted stringed instruments (and occasional percussion) but as Robert plays anything one can blow down, pump with ones elbows or beat a rhythm on, he could, feaibly, have been playing anything (or, pretty much everything!)! They are all members of New Scorpion Band, by the way, website at:   http://www.new-scorpion-band.com

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:14 AM

its on UK satellite/cable Film 4 again tonight..

too bloody late to turn the sound volume up !!

better to DVD it for the weekend


..a less than classic but very entertaining epic..

apparently butchered down from a 4 - 5 hour prerelease cut..

the narrative tone lacks focus and always seems just one step away
from breaking out into stylised hollywood big ensemble song and dance musical..

[laughably teetering very close to mutant west side story gang fight choreography..]

.. and the soundtrack music is a big messy bumper fun bag
of anacronistic styles and eras..

but for all its faults it is a breathtaking fun movie to watch
with a bottle of cider and big bags of chilli crisps and p'nuts.

i'll watch it again

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: ranger1
Date: 17 Nov 05 - 09:56 AM

I liked the movie, but then again, I only have one requirement for a movie: does it entertain me? If I want historical fact, I'll go to the library and find a book or turn on PBS and watch a documentary.

As for the soundtrack, I liked it OK, what I could hear of it in the movie.

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 08:02 AM

I finally got to see Gangs Of New York after finding a cheap DVD recently. I was astonished to hear the soundtrack - there were a few cuts from one of my favorite CD's called Altamont, which was made from field recordings of superb black old time string bands in the forties, including Lusk Gribble and Yorke. Probably not in the right place (they were Southerners) but great anyway.
Ray

Subject: RE: Gangs of New York - music
From: erinmaidin
Date: 18 Nov 05 - 08:34 AM

I thought the woman who sang "Paddy's Lamentation" was Mary Black. Heard this on one of her albums about 15 yrs. or so ago. She is actually listed in the movie credits as being the performer.