In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died

Subject: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Amos
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 09:45 AM

1959 -- Buddy Holly (22), The Big Bopper [J.P. Richardson, 29], & Richie Valens (17) go to Rock'n'Roll heaven. Killed in plane crash near Mason City, Iowa.

I don't hold with a lot of sentiment, but at least here's a tip of the hat to those who sparked so many musical souls. Sometimes I feel like I have Buddy Holly in my blood!

Requiescat in Pacem, guys -- ya done great!


A

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: the wizard of oslo
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 11:30 AM

Agree with that! As usual, the question is what would have become of pop music if Buddy Holly didn't board that plane...

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 11:47 AM

Slight correction: The Day "That" Music Died.
If only it would've been that simple.
Sorry but 50's Rock & Roll music never inspired a thing in my life. Sorta like Disco & Rap.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 12:00 PM

In past years I have generally been the one to bring it up, but yesterday I just took a pass. But thanks Amos because I really think a lot did die then. I don't know how much valens had to contribute, too early to really tell. And I think Richardson was a one trick pony. But Buddy had a mountain of work behind him in a few short years and was off on to new ideas.......What he could have done and what would have been accepted, no one will ever know.....but I believe the entire course of Rock would have been changed. I believe he was that strong and that imaginative.

Spaw

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 12:41 PM

You don't need to like '50s rock and roll to owe a debt to Buddy Holly.

I guarantee that if Taliesn gives a list of the music he admires, there's going to be a Buddy Holly influence in there somewhere. The most unlikely people, playing Irish music, or Old Timey, or music for social dances or...

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 01:08 PM

If Buddy hadn'ta died in that plane crash, the whole would would be asking itself, "Elvis who"???

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 04:15 PM

(quote)
"I guarantee that if Taliesn gives a list of the music he admires, there's going to be a Buddy Holly influence in there somewhere."

I'll take you up on that McGrath.
I grew up listening to the music my parents played on the stereo; predominantly classical symphonies with some Broadway & Film score music thrown in.
I really didn't care for the early Beatles when they "happened".
I was too young and their "lovey-dovey" Pop songs were damn near bubble-gum to my ears.
I didn't start really paying attention to contemporary music until friends turned me on to the 2nd British invasion of musician virtuosos like Cream , Hendrix newly "Londonized" with sidemen Mitch Mitchel and Noel Redding, The Who after their "Tommy" release to be followed by "Live at Leads". Clasical/Jazz fusionist Kieth emerosn with " the Nice" to be follwed by ELP. YES, Jethro Tull, Crosby Stills & Nash, Joni Mitchel, early steve miller ( when he actually cared how he played guitar ). The Beatles didn't enter my listening world until Sargent Pepper's and then i discovered "Revolver".......shall I go on? ;-)

Far be it from me to pretend my opinion matters so far as the contribution Buddy Holly made to Pop music ,but with what I listened to my first impression of 50's music was Elvis' attempting to be musically "relevent" in the late 60's and ShaNaNa. The lyrics were sophmoric at best. It was all mindless "Ed Sullivan Show" music to my ear.

Yeah, suppose i'm damaged for life now, but give me a little Prokofiev , Copland, Gershwin , YES or pre-80's Joni and I be just fine. ;-)

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Allan C.
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 06:30 PM

On the other hand, a young man who was only to have been a minor part of the show where Buddy Holly, et al were to have played, was given an opportunity to give a much bigger performance. His name was Bobby Vinton.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 06:43 PM

Yeh, and Waylon gave up his seat to the Bopper. Rock's loss was countrys gain. Funny thing fate.....................
         Sandy

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:05 PM

Im not one for the "In Memoriam" type threads and Buddy Holly died the year before I was born so I didn't know the times...

But, one the odd occasion I do hear music of that era, it seems to me that he was being innovative while others were working to the rock and roll formula.

From my perspective, I don't think you can say "The Day The Music Died" and there has been a lot of good stuff without him. On the other hand, it would have been interesting to see where his influence would have taken popular music had he been around longer.

Either way, I think that ultimately we would have ended up in the same state where record companies and the media know the game so well that they can manufacture bands such as the Spice Girls and sell drivel to an ignorant public.

Jon

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 07:09 PM

What mattered more to me personally at the time was the death of that great Clarinetist and soprano Sax player Sidney Bechet.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Feb 03 - 08:04 PM

Looking through that list of Taliesn I'd have thought that a lot of those would have Buddy Holly, and people who'd been influenced or encouraged into making music by Buddy Holly, as key parts of their story.

That would defnitely have gone for most if not all of the Engkish names in there, I feel, including the Beatles. Being influenced by something isn't the same as trying to sound the same.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:10 AM

Certainly Hendrix (cited by Taliesn) would have sounded rather different without the use of the Fender Stratocaster - the model that Holly started playing and popularised in 1958. If he hadn't championed its use it would have gone out of production before Hendrix had a chance to play one.

Roger

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Hrothgar
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:46 AM

And best of all, if Buddy Holly had lived, we wouldn't have "American Pie."

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:53 AM

Hrothgar: I can't tell from your wording whether you think not having 'American Pie' would be a benefit or a loss??

Nigel

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 05:24 AM

(quote)
"And best of all, if Buddy Holly had lived, we wouldn't have "American Pie."

LOL ;-@
I've held that same sentiment for other over-rated songs that were over-played to death, but then that's a result of the curse of formula format radio.
As a matter of fact it would make an amusing thread subject all its own:
" Songs You Don't Care if You "Ever" hear Again"
1st on my list would be Led Zepplin's "Stairway to Heavan".
"American Pie" would definitely get "honorable mention" on such a list.

BTW: Another variation on the thread title regards a N.Y. Daily News headline on day of the passing of the Grateful Dead's Jerry Garcia. ( yet another source of "overplayed" material )
(quote)
"The Day the Dead Died"

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: harvey andrews
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 02:49 PM

I don't think it was Bobby Vinton who took over that night, it was bobby Vee who later made a record with the remaining Crickets.

                   PLEASE DON'T GET ON THE PLANE

    PLEASE DON'T GET ON THE PLANE
    IT'S COLD AND THE SNOW'S SO THICK IN THE AIR
    PLEASE DON'T GET ON THE PLANE
    SEE, THE BAND'S ON THE BUS, AND IT'S JUST OVER THERE.
    AND YES, I KNOW THAT YOU'RE TIRED
    SO YOU HIRED IT TO FLY ON AHEAD OF THE GANG.
    BUT PLEASE DON'T GET ON THE PLANE,
    TAKE YOUR TIME, LIKE THE WORDS OF THE SONG YOU JUST SANG.

MARIA ELENA'S ALONE IN NEW YORK,
SHE CAN'T SLEEP WELL TONIGHT.
AND JERRY AND JOE SAY THE CRICKETS'LL GO
BACK TOGETHER ALLRIGHT.
AND A BOY IN THE U.K.IS GROWING UP O.K.
AND SINGING YOUR SONGS
BUT HE'S ONLY 15,HE'S NOT SEEN VERY MUCH
AND HE NEEDS YOU ALONG.

BIG BOPPER JUST ROARED AT THE CLAIM THAT HE SCORED
IN THE DANCE HALL LAST NIGHT,
BUT RITCHIE'S TOO SHY,HE WON'T TRY,
THOUGH HE SAYS THAT THE NEXT GIG HE MIGHT.
NOW THE PILOT'S ON BOARD AND HE JUST CAN'T AFFORD
NOT TO TAKE ON THE JOB,
AND YOU'RE THINKING YOU'VE COME A LONG WAY
SINCE THE DAYS OF BUDDY AND BOB.


YOU'RE MOVING ON OUT, YOU'RE BEGINNING TO ROLL,
BUT WHY CAN'T YOU SEE
THERE'S A BOY IN THE SNOW, WHO'S SAYING "DON'T GO,
DON'T GO AND LEAVE ME."
AND NOW HE'S SHOUTING AND SCREAMING, PAST FIFTY AND DREAMING
OF YESTERDAY WHEN.
AND HE WAKES WITH A START AND HIS HEART'S LIKE A HAMMER,
AND HE'S FIFTEEN AGAIN.
Saying;
PLEASE DON'T GET ON THE PLANE
    IT'S COLD AND THE SNOW'S SO THICK IN THE AIR
    PLEASE DON'T GET ON THE PLANE
    SEE, THE BAND'S ON THE BUS, AND IT'S JUST OVER THERE.
    AND YES, I KNOW THAT YOU'RE TIRED
    SO YOU HIRED IT TO FLY ON AHEAD OF THE GANG.
    BUT PLEASE DON'T GET ON THE PLANE,
    TAKE YOUR TIME, LIKE THE WORDS OF THE SONG YOU JUST SANG.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:00 PM

If [Buddy Holly] hadn't championed [the Stratocaster's] use it would have gone out of production before Hendrix had a chance to play one.

Come on, Sir Roger, that is a really stupid thing to say. We can't possibly know.

If Paul McCartney had had a cold and not bothered going to Woolton Fete on 6th July, 1957, the Beatles might not have happened. No one can possibly know.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 03:16 PM

(quote)
"Certainly Hendrix (cited by Taliesn) would have sounded rather different without the use of the Fender Stratocaster - the model that Holly started playing and popularised in 1958. If he hadn't championed its use it would have gone out of production before Hendrix had a chance to play one."

Uhmmm, ever hear of a Mr. Les Paul?
Just checkin' ;-)

Getting real is what it's all about.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Steve-o
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 04:57 PM

Riiiiggghhht, Taliesn. Ya thought all those great and fondly remembered songs by Les Paul and Mary Ford had a lot more impact than that little Texas boy's songs. Les may be the inventor, but he played garbage. You get real.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: CraigS
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 05:25 PM

I'm not taking sides on this, but -

A lot more people than Buddy Holly were playing Stratocasters.

Hendrix insisted on playing a RH Strat upside down. Fender kept trying to give him new LH models, but he always sent them back because they didn't sound right.

Hendrix's no.2 guitar was a 1957 Gibson Flying V - this was a major force behind Gibson re-issuing this model.

If Buddy Holly had been playing on a Kay he bought in Woolworths for $15 he would still sound unique, distinctive and original!

Les Paul's guitar playing was a major influence on Richie Blackmore, a Strat murderer of the first water.

Steve-o is a banjo player (and it ain't but got three strings)

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Feb 03 - 06:11 PM

Geeziz..........Well, not to put too fine a point on it, but Buddy also used the Telecaster an awful lot as well. And as for Les Paul playing garbage.......That's too ridculous to even respond to except to say that it's complete garbage!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Hrothgar
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 02:16 AM

Nigel, I had more than my fill of "American Pie" a long time ago. Does that help?

:-)

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 03:41 AM

OK, I admit to writing about the Stratocaster from a UK angle - there is no doubt that Buddy's playing of it on his 1958 tour of Britain had a huge influence on many young musicians who then went on to become the beat groups of the 60s. And then, of course, they took the music back across the pond and in the process told everyone how great Buddy Holly was.

Any point in discussing why Holly was always more popular here than in the States? This was true during his lifetime and continues to this day.

Roger

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Steve-o
Date: 06 Feb 03 - 07:24 PM

OK, I admit that I'm not really enthusiastic, because this has become about them electric contraptions/corruptions, but I'm ready to be converted. Somebody tell me about albums with Les Paul playing tasteful guitar.....I'll try 'em out, believe me. My remarks may have been hasty and misguided, because I was thinking of all the "hits" he made with Mary Ford, which were anything but tasteful. And by the way, I do play the banjo as if I had three fingers.

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 08:23 AM

Quote in the Guardian (British newspaper)today from Richard Thompson.
"It was listening to Buddy Holly in 1956 that made me first want to play guitar, although I didn't actually manage it until 1960."

Subject: RE: In Memoriam: The Day The Music Died
From: 53
Date: 07 Feb 03 - 03:19 PM

rest in peace.