 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well?
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Rick Fielding Date: 09 Mar 03 - 05:34 PM I'm just in the process of finishing up a fascinating book on the American eccentric raconteur "Lord" Richard Buckley". (sent by Harvey Andrews...thanks so much!) Heather and I then sat down and started discussing humour, which apparently we both have VERY strong views on. I'm 12 years older than her (58 to 46) so there are SOME problems when we're trying to discuss our initial reaction to certain comics....but we manage. So here are some questions that we'd love to get some Mudcatters' opinions on: (if you're a mere child and don't remember some...or any...of these 'funny' people, be thankful yer so friggin' young. #1. From the late fifties through the mid sixties, Ed Sullivan would present many comics from the British Isles (he apparently LOVED some that were simply not seen as funny over here) Who was the guy in the Fez? He did a failed magic act (which NEVER changed) and I loved him. Who had the emu? Which of them (not the emu...the other comic) DIED on stage? Sullivan LOVED Morcombe and Wise (so did Heather)...but I simply didn't 'get' them. What kind of stuff did they do...I forget? #2. So what about AMERICAN comedians? Did they do British TV? It's hard for me to picture Jackie Mason, Professor Irwin Corey, Professor Backwards, Sam Levinson, Lord Buckley (another Sullivan favourite, oddly enough) Joan Rivers, Myron Cohen, Martin and Lewis (yuchh) or Rodney Dangerfield, translating into "British" and still being funny. I'm well aware that American SINGING DANCING comedians made the transatlantic journey all the time and were very well received by the Brits (Heck, Danny Kaye was so well 'received' by Olivier it caused a scandal!) but it's hard to picture the stand-ups like Jack Carter and Alan King (mainstays on all American TV) doing well overseas. Certainly Bob Hope went back to Britain, but I didn't think he was funny period. Heather remembers "Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In" as being very popular (which surprised me) in Glasgow, and that might have opened the door for some of the comics who were regulars on that show. What about the really weird acts that came from the Continent like TOPO GIGIO, (oh edddddie!) SENOR WENCES, (close de box!) and that guy who did half of himself as male, and half as a female? Or even Sullivan's big faves, Canada's Wayne and Shuster? Like Morcombe and Wise, I didn't find them that funny...although they did parodies on Shakespeare, Arthur Miller, etc. Witty...but just not funny to me. I really think the first time I UNDERSTOOD (not heard) THE GOONS, comedy totally changed for me. Had they not run them (and Hancock) on the snotty little CBC Toronto, outlet, I probably WOULD have thought Jerry Lewis and Bob Hope were funny...ha ha! Whaddya think? Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM Tomy Cooper was the guy in the fez, Rick and it was he who (whom?) died on stage. Rod Hull was the man with Emu - he died when he fell of his roof trying to fix the TV ariel! I think good humour is transatlantic - some from both sides will be classics forever. Fawlty Towers and Friends are two that spring instantly to my mind anyway. Oddly enough their 'other halves' never seemed to catch on in their own countries. Friends was, to me, always superior to the British 'coupling' although that did have its high spots and at least explained to me why I don't understand cusions. (You had to see it!) As for the US version of F.T. Well, I can't even remember what it was called let alone a funny moment! I did find Jerry Lewis very funny btw, Rick. His original Nutty professor was far better than Eddie Murphy. Never did like Bob Hope much though. Probably because I don't play golf:-) Cheers Dave the Gnome |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: GUEST,Q Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:26 PM All of the British comic series on television were funny. One I liked but no one else in the family appreciated was "The Last of the Summer Wine." Rick Fielding listed some comics I couldn't stand- Myron Cohen, Joan Rivers and Prof. Backwards to name three. Jerry Lewis- duh! Sid Caesar, Jackie Gleason, Art Carney, Jack Benny, George Burns and Gracie Allen, Steve Allen, Joe Penner, were great. Phil Harris was good. How did they play "over the waves?" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: SINSULL Date: 09 Mar 03 - 06:40 PM The American Faulty Towers starred Bea Archer (Maude from "All In The Family") as a female Basil. Need I say more? Disastrous. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Rick Fielding Date: 09 Mar 03 - 07:05 PM You aren't gonna believe this....but when I started hunting around the net for "Strange or eccentric" comedians...cuz I AM reading about Lord Buckley, I found the website of Professor Irwin Corey.....and he's STILL ALIVE! And doing his act (at 87) theProf Fascinating guy. Was blacklisted, seems to still be a Communist, real political, and still making people laugh....well at least CONFUSING them! Rod Hull! thanks Gnome. Jerry Lewis over Eddie Murphy? Well, I'm not sure I'd go see either. Hi "Q" are you from this side of the pond or Europe? You said: "Rick Fielding listed some comics I couldn't stand- Myron Cohen, Joan Rivers and Prof. Backwards to name three. Jerry Lewis- duh!" I'm with you on all those....but they WERE popular. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Alba Date: 09 Mar 03 - 07:40 PM Britian had there own Rodney Dagerfield in a series.Till death us do part. The character was Alf Garnet....same humour with a British twist. Morecombe and Wise done Christmas specials that were pretty good and manditory in our house!! Rowan and Martin's laughin was a riot I loved it and so did my friends in Glasgow. I never found Jerry Lewis funny..just annoying! Billy Connelly though was not understood when he first came State side, but after being persuaded that perhaps he should not be so "glaswegian" seemed to do alright although I wonder if people really "get him" over here. I think he is very funny but then I speak the language. George Burns, very funny, as was Jack Benny and I think they made the crossing of the waves intact. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Morticia Date: 09 Mar 03 - 07:45 PM Robin Williams creases me up....and many of his movies were good too ( if you can forgive Altman's Popeye). I liked Saturday Night LIve when I lived in the States and I LOVED Soap. I don't really watch tv now, grew out of it I think, but do you guys get the more political and satirical stuff like 'Have I got News for You', ' Never Mind the Buzzcocks", " They think it's all over" and 'Drop the Dead Donkey'?. I am guessing not because they are pretty insular but represent,IMO, the best of british comedy today. I am not sure we do good sit com anymore. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Jeri Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:07 PM I used to watch Monty Python all the time, then the Air Force sent me to England. We had a common room with one TV. New people would come and think the TV shows (THREE WHOLE CHANNELS!) were stupid and couldn't understand why some people would be laughing their I loved the shows, not so much when they got exceptionally cruel as they sometimes did. A bit cruel wasn't bad, but there was a line...somewhere. I don't like Jerry Lewis and I didn't like Benny Hill. Jerry's at the top of my list for 'annoying', but Benny's on it. There was another comedian who drove me up a wall, but I've completely blocked his name. (The TV show was "Mr. [somebody]") There was a show I watched about the British Army in India, and one of the stars had this deep, deep voice. I can't remember the name of that either. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Snuffy Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:12 PM Mr Bean? (Rowan Atkinson) It ain't 'arf 'ot, mum. Windsor Davies was the Welsh Sergeant-major with the deep voice "Oh dear, what a pity, never mind" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: GUEST,Q Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:14 PM From North America (US to Canada)- but I watch the British comedies on PBS. Whatever happened to Dame Edna? And Benny Hill? Sometimes funny. Not full time comedians, but Alice Faye and ? in the Bickersons. (My mind is taking a vacation). Yep, never missed Laugh-in. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Jeri Date: 09 Mar 03 - 08:52 PM Snuffy, you got both of them! Thanks. (Mr Bean: eeew!) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Rick Fielding Date: 09 Mar 03 - 10:56 PM Alice Faye and "Don Ameche"?? Just a name that ran through my mind. I think the NEWER comics are a totally different kettle of fish. There has obviously been YEARS of cross comic polination, audiences generally would be able to follow ANYONE. That's why I only mentioned OLD TIMERS in this thread. Before there was all that American-Brit TV exchange. I know that when I first heard Billy Conolly (on a record) he was WAYYYY to fast for me. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:51 AM Another thought struck me - I love the 'observational' comedians but I reckon some would not work well across the pond. I can't realy see Peter Kay or Mike Harding (Folk link!) working stateside and I find some of the Americans go strait over my head. And I'm sorry to say it but I find some of the US black comedians and shows totaly beyond me! Some of the zanier UK comedians (Eddie Izzard, Ardal O'Hanlan) I reckon would work well anywhere because they seem to break barriers. Cheers DtG |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Nigel Parsons Date: 10 Mar 03 - 04:13 AM GuestQ: "From North America (US to Canada)- but I watch the British comedies on PBS. Whatever happened to Dame Edna? And Benny Hill? Sometimes funny. " Benny Hill: died April 1992 (lonely and ignored); But great as the 'dirty old man' (Prof.Simon Peach) in "The Italian Job" Dame Edna Everage: Actually an Australian comedian/ comedienne?, Barry Humphreys. BH is best known for Dame Edna (Melbourne housewife/ Superstar) and Sir Les Patterson (Australian cultural attache) Nigel |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Rapparee Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:48 AM How did Red Skelton play in Britain? To my mind he was one of the very few truly great comedians -- and as far as I know the only "non-political" one to have a bridge named after him (over the Wabash River, seperating Illinois and Indian, outside of his home town of Versailles, Indiana). Or Phil Silvers? How does Steve Martin translate? To my mind, one of the greatest comediennes was Beatrice Lilly. What about Goldy Hawn? Lucille Ball? Let us not forget the ladies! You can buy Benny Hill tapes -- retrospectives of his "greatest moments" -- here. They're advertised on late-night TV. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Mr Red Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:57 AM I watched a satirical program in Toronto recently and I could appreciate the methodology and get a lot of the references the format was such that next week I would have reached for the "blab button" and silenced the intrusion immediately. Context is all - here in the UK satire is characterised by the force of argument not the force of volume. There are some very popular UK programs that leave me cold - their appeal is to a younger audience and age is a very telling context. eg I find one farting pig is maybe funny by it's surprise, two is "heard it" and the third is just before I switched-off. I always remember my sister trying to explain a recording of NZ humour. We had to stop after each quip to have the context spelled-out. Humour is just not funny when you explain it. Well, I say that but there is one guy I know who sometimes comes-up to me the next week and tells me he got the joke from last week - just after his wife explained it at home. Now that to me is hilarious - every time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:23 AM Interesting that Saturday Night Live comics get very little mention, here. I think that Bill Murray is hilarious, and can raise even a mediocre movie to great heights. I liked him in Groundhog Day as much as in Ghostbusters. I think that even though Eddie Murphy has been increasingly unpredicatble in recent years, he has done some hilarious stuff. both on Staurday night Live and in some of his earlier movies. Steve Martin is usually hilarious, to my funny bone at least. I'm looking forward to seeing Bringing Down The House with Queen Latifah.. probably this week. And even though his work was erratic and didn't translate well to movies, John Belushi was brilliant and hilarious. The ones I don't get are Adam Sandler (Stupid is funny?) And most of Jim Carrey's work (with a couple of exceptions.) I do see a difference in British and American humor. British humor seems more off-beat and zany, and less grounded in every day situations. Cast a thousand thumbs down on Robin Williams. Ecch!!!! He's far too manic and self-infatuated for my tastes. My kids loved Benny Hill, and one of my sons loved Ab Fab. And I thought that Laurel and Hardy were comic geniuses who still make me laugh... an example of an Englishman making hilarious American movies.. wasn't there another Englishmen who did that.. Charlie Chaplin? And eleven cheers for Buster Keaton. Before your time, Rick. You young upstart.. Jerry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:43 AM Bob Hope was alright when he was with Bing Crosby. And Jerry Lewis was all right when he wasn't with Dean Martin. And he'd have been funnier in silent movies, which is why the French like him. (Well, maybe they also like him on principle, because they know it gets up the nose of Americans...) Most of those Americans mentioned I don't think we've ever heard of back here. I think there is a big distinction between comedians and comics. Comedians travel much better. Going back a bit, Charlie Chaplin is an example of someone who was enormously popular both sides of the ocean. And whom I find remarkably unfunny most of the time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Rick Fielding Date: 10 Mar 03 - 11:44 AM How 'bout Seinfeld? Do most Brits get the nuances....cuz so much is based on "growing up in 60s America". There is only ONE character in that show that has ANY redeeming qualities (Jerry...and he's only the good guy in comparison with the rest of the cast) To me, that's the reason for the monstrous success of the show (critics overwhelmingly voted it 'Best sit com ever" over "Mash", "Honeymooners" etc.)...the basic UNLIKEABILITY of all the characters makes them funny. We have virtually NO sympathy for them. Plus......the acting and writing was absolutely brilliant....the cast are so adrift at the moment (other than Larry Davis, and Wayne Knight) it's almost sad, to me. I saw Julia, in a "My Big Fat Greek whatever" and she looked positively embarrased to be around all the terribly fake Greek accents. Geez! Michael Constantine goes back and forth fro Greek to Russian.....and I worked enough Greek restaurants to know! Cheers Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: GUEST,Q Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:46 PM Seinfeld? American-born, but I found nothing funny there- just to show how funny bones differ. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: GUEST,The O'Meara Date: 10 Mar 03 - 12:51 PM OK. Laurel and Hardy were superstars on both continents. When they officially visited London, legend has it the bells of Big Ben rang the Cuckoo Song. Their movies and short features were (are) hilarious slapstick comedy and were all over on early television, along with W.C. Fields and Buster Keaton, etc. But where are they now? (The films.) Is that stuff no longer funny, too tame, or what? O'Meara P.S. Peter Sellers was universal. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Mar 03 - 02:21 PM With Laurel and Hardy it wasn't so much as they were funny, but that you loved them. Even if they hadn't been funny in a film it probably would still have been good to watch. That was the difference with Chaplin - brilliant but heartless. It may be that comedy in England tends to be based more on that kind of thing, likeability, which ties in with failure and humiliation. I can't think of any comic persona here which is based on someone being succesful. (Apart from something like The New Statesman which was based on detesting the main character, a Tory politician, and relishing his anticipated downfall.) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Fossil Date: 10 Mar 03 - 02:29 PM As a Brit, I always fell about laughing back in the '60's for the "Rowan and Martin Laugh-In". Anyone else remember the "Flying Fickle Finger of Fate Award"? Hated most other US comics. Still do, mostly. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: alanabit Date: 10 Mar 03 - 03:18 PM Interesting comments about Chaplin, Kevin. Thinking about it, there is something detached and almost Brechtian about Chaplin. I did like the films. I also think he was a man of genuine conviction and courage. "The Great Dictator" is contrived and based on a great deal of manipulative sentimentality - but so was the evil which it parodied so brilliantly. Of course, Chaplin crossed the Atlantic in both directions. He was a clog dancer/music hall act who made it in the States. Then he made American films which made him renowned both sides of the Atlantic. I think it can be done, but not by many. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Rick Fielding Date: 10 Mar 03 - 06:58 PM I meant Larry DAVID of course. By the way his current 'semi-improvised' sit com (Curb your Enthusiasm) is getting absolute RAVES! It's like Seinfeld, but with even more mysoginistic characters. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: DougR Date: 11 Mar 03 - 01:49 AM Rick: I suspect it was Alice Faye and (her husband) Phil Harris, rather than Don Ameche, though Faye and Ameche did appear in some movies together. Jack Benny was probably my favorite comedian. I got to know him a bit and in "real" life he wasn't funny at all though. I love the new Larry David show, "Curb your Enthusiasm" on HBO. I remember many of the comics you mentioned as being regular (almost) guests on the Ed Sullivan show, but I never found many of them very funny. Not "knee slappers" I mean. Just a chuckle or two during the show. DougR |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Helen Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:44 AM I loved 'Drop the Dead Donkey' (UK), and Red Skelton was my favourite tv comic when I was a kid. I'd love to see some of his old shows again. Remember Clem Kadiddlehopper? I have never liked Lucille Ball, although I saw a documentary about her recently and I recognised that a lot of what she did was slapstick. Never did like Jerry Lewis, or Bob Hope. Always loved the Marx Brothers. Always loved Monty Python, but now I see how sexist and even woman-hating most of their sketches were. I don't really care for the Goons so much, although I relate to the surrealism of it all. Most of the really funny stuff I like now is Canadian. They seem to share a similar sense of the weird, whacky & ridiculous of the Brits and the Aussies. I love The Red Green Show. Used to watch Laugh In when I was a kid. There were lots of Australian comedy shows a bit later than that which were funny. All of Garry MacDonald's stuff including his Norman Gunston character. The Aunty Jack Show, even the Mavis Bramston Show. (Don't worry if you've never heard of these because I doubt whether they ever left Oz.) Then there was, more recently, Fast Forward and Full Frontal. Magda Szubanski is brilliantly funny. (Think of her in the movie Babe!) Her Dogwoman movies are excellent. Lately my favourite comedies have been the movies directed by either the Coen brothers, or Kevin Smith. Irreverent and whacky/weird. Helen |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Rick Fielding Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:05 AM Wow! Looked it up on Google. Don Ameche and Frances Langford. Did they have other casts? Cheers |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: MMario Date: 11 Mar 03 - 11:08 AM Why do I keep wanting to answer this question "It depends on how well you packed it?" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: CraigS Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:51 PM The standard answer to why Americans don't like British humour is that they have an Irony Deficiency. However, when it comes to humour involving surreal aspects, or the amusement derives from someone's ignorance or misunderstanding, the deciding factor is how much you can stand before the whole thing appears totally stupid - this is true either side of the pond. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: Peg Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:03 PM It seems a bit sweeping to say that Americans on the whole do not appreciate or understand irony. Most everyone I know loves British humor. I do notice younger generations (like the college students I teach) don't seem to have much use for it though, but I suspect that's generational. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:19 PM I've heard that there is more difference between the humour of people in New York and most of the USA than there is across the Atlantic. If so, which sort of America is more likely to appeciate imports? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: GUEST,Guest.Peter Sumner Date: 11 Mar 03 - 10:24 PM Hoping to shed a little light...I'm a Brit and have been living in California for over four years now..don't watch much TV...so don't see the newer stuff...have seen re-runs of Saturday Night Live on occasion and have loved them...don't think they ever made it to the UK when I was there....BUT my point is.... Comedy depends, to a great extent, on understanding the "situation" being outlined in the story/gag...if some words are misunderstood..or just missed...if you are listening to a broad regional accent for instance....the essential elements of what constitutes the punch line will drift or shoot over the listeners head...this comes home to me when I see the odd Brit prog on PBS...Many of the everyday expressions that are used in the UK just aren't heard over hear...and it isn't until you've been removed from then that they become noticable... Hope this makes some sense to someone.... Hope to see many 'catters' in San Francisco in May for the Maritime Fest... Worth the drive from San Jose just to see my old mate Lou Killen... Pete Sumner |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Does Humour Cross the Ocean Well? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Mar 03 - 09:21 PM Mind you'd think that would apply the other way as well, but we seem to manage to catch on to the sense of what Americans on TV are saying fairly well. Or maybe we don't, and we are laughing at different things when we watch the same programmes. |