BS: naive about war??

Subject: naive about war??
From: iRiShBaBe
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 03:29 PM

hey guys, im off to cyprus for the summer this yr startin on the 31 of may, think im bein naive eith this war?? think cyprus wil be affected?

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: NicoleC
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 04:59 PM

Cyprus is a lovely place, but stay away from the so-called "border" -- the split between Turkish and Cypriot control. Good advice any time because there are demonstrations and occassional violence. If the Mid-East goes up in flames, Cyprus is likely to escape much of it, but if there are problems it'll likely be there and not elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: DougR
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 05:07 PM

I haven't the foggiest.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Mar 03 - 07:44 PM

Just today the news reported that recent peace talks between the parties in Cyprus were declared "a failure". This could mean renewed violence. Be careful, and don't get drawn into political discussions!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: Bagpuss
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 06:27 AM

I have no idea how the war will affect Cyprus, but I am very saddened that the deal on reunification of Cyprus has fallen through - especially since the people on both sides of the divide seemed to be for it, and it was governments that ruled it out.

bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: mack/misophist
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 11:27 AM

The news stories I saw said that it wasn't governments that scuttled it, it was the Turkish leaders in Cyprus. The implication was that unification would cost them their power.

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: iRiShBaBe
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 03:08 PM

thanks guys. this war is causing more problems than ever imagined!!

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: NicoleC
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 04:17 PM

The Cyprus/Turkey issue has been going on for 30 years, ever since Turkey invaded and occupied a portion of Cyprus. Largely, the Cypriot complaints have been ignored by the international community, but coming to some sort of resolution with Cyprus is a de facto condition for Turkey's admission into the EU.

Good news article here that summarizes the situation:
Cyprus threatens Turkey's future in Europe

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: Amos
Date: 12 Mar 03 - 07:36 PM

I'll tell you who's naive about war -- anyone who thinks it is a viable tool of diplomacy.

A

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: gnu
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 04:12 PM

Caution is the better part of valour ? Why bother ? Do you really have to ? Better to be safe than sorry ? Why the f*** would you want to leave Ireland ? (I coined that last saying.)

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: Troll
Date: 13 Mar 03 - 10:48 PM

War is simply the continuation of dimlomacy by more physical means. Dipolmacy is useless if there are no consequences for its failure.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: mg
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 12:48 AM

In general, I think that people are not naive about war..they know how horrible it is to a great degree. What I do think they are incredibly naive about is what happens if the good guys don't stand on guard at all times. Then you have opportunists. You have slaughters. You have torture. Rape. You name it. mg

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: Amos
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 09:25 AM

Troll:

Old friend, I think you've been listening to Bush too hard. War is not "simply" anything, and to trivialize it into an abstract concept is dehumanizing in the extreme. Engaging in war is a complete admission of prior incompetence in relationships. As for consequences to diplomatic difficulties there are plenty of them, including sanctions, economic isolation, and public embarassment inthe community of nations, which should by all rights be used skillfully instead, wherever possible.

This is not to say that a psychotic leader can not force a nation into war, by his dramatizations and obsessions. I can think of two that seem to be going that way now, neither of whom was   elected.

A

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: Troll
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 11:46 AM

Amos, that's a paraphrase of an old, old definition of diplomacy and has little to do with Mr. Bush.
As far as Saddam goes, we've tried all the things you mentioned, and they have yet to produce any discernable good.
I was not trying to trivialize war. I know the horror, the shock that comes with realizing that someone is trying to kill you, that the guy you trained with is that ragged hunk of bloody meat next to you.
Let me ask you this. Is it better to deal with Saddam now, or wait until he has nuclear weapons?
I feel that he must be dealt with now. There have been 12 long years of resolutions and failed diplomacy. If he does not disarm and we don't go in, our only recourse will be to build a high fence all around the country and hope to heaven that it will stop the people who want to bring us down because they will feel, and rightly so, that we have lost the will to protect ourselves and the few allies we will have left.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: iRiShBaBe
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 03:48 PM

its not that i want to leave ireland, but we all deserve a break! those leprechauns r doin my head in! besides, too much of a good thing is bad 4 u.... never quite got that saying...

Subject: RE: BS: naive about war??
From: Amos
Date: 14 Mar 03 - 10:24 PM

I will be jolly glad to see him dealt with, Troll. I haven't seen any sing that he is trying to get nuclear weapons. On that score I am more concerned about the Iranians. I am not persuaded he is the threat Bush says he is but I am quite clear that he is a no-good sonuvabitch and we would be doing the region a favor to force him out.

I seriously object to the notion that there is no way to do it except drop mother-bombs on his citizens.

A