BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism

Subject: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: mutineer
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 09:38 PM

Hello there...
I'm working on a paper for school and was wondering if anyone could help me out. I'm trying to write an essay about things or events in the movie SIGNS - starring Mel Gibson.
Can anyone help me out???
Cheers and thanks
-mutineer

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 10:24 PM

Ya... his use of spiritual symbolisim was way too heavy handed... and the movie was overlong, drawn out, and boring just like everything else he's made...

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 11:03 PM

Mutineer:

I dunno the movie, but you might reflect on the proposition that "spiritual symbolism" is an oxymoron, right up there with military music.

A

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Peg
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 11:27 PM

help you out with what? writing your paper for you?
How do you propose to learn anything unless you do this work yourself? That's the point of education...

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: GUEST,Tom D.
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:07 AM

I avoided this bogus flick, though I generally enjoy Mr. Gibson's movies. The entire world is aware that the whole crop circle thing was a hoax. How much of a lobotomy do you have to give yourself to get behind the premise of the flick?

Of course, that's just my opinion. One day I will become willing to cease cherishing opinion, but not today.

Be well,

Tom D.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:31 AM

Some crop circles are hoaxes. Others are almost certianly not. The movie was a dreadful film...very stupid. It was an insult to crop circles, aliens, and the viewers' intelligence.

Amos - Spiritual symbolism is an "oxymoron"??? Huh??? You gotta be kidding. Please explain.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: mutineer
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 01:53 AM

Peg-
I actually have written the report already, but was just looking for other's opinions :)

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:08 AM

LH:

If spiritual, not symbol; if symbol, not spiritual.

A

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:20 PM

"Some crop circles are hoaxes."

All crop circles are hoaxes...

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Beccy
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 12:33 PM

Oh boy, Mutineer... did you expect a mutiny when you posted this thread? I'd love to hold forth, but I haven't seen the movie.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 01:24 PM

ClintonHammond-Have you personally investigated every crop circle ever made? If you dislike Shyamalan's work so much, why did you see the movie at all?

Little Hawk-If crop circles are made by some intelligent, non-human force, as I gather you are implying, WHY?! It seems to me that any deliberate creation of a crop circle must be simply to amuse the creators while they laugh at our reactions.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 02:56 PM

Well, mutineer, if you shared your conclusions here I'm sure you'd get some interesting comments and reactions.

It was quite fun, an updated goblins-are-going-to-get-you story. It never occurred to me that it might be intended to have any serious implications.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 05:52 PM

A giant snore. I was watching it while a friend was on the phone. Halfway through, he came back and jokingly asked "What's happened up until now?" I replied honestly "Nothing."

The symbolism was HEAVY, hit you over the head in case the audience at whom it was aimed might miss it, heavy. Sorry, Mcgrath. I should add that I thought Braveheart was a total bore too.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:04 PM

To Guest FL...

I don't need to investigate every one to know that something that stupid is a hoax... Especially in the face of there being NOT A SINGLE SHRED of evidence to prove that they are NOT hoaxes... that's how proof works... You wanna prove something true, the burdon of proof is on you... not on me to, disprove it...

As to why I saw the damn movie? Well, I got it for free (I LOVE my connection at Blockbuster) at the recomendation of some friends who assured me that it wasn't gonna be a typicle M. Night Snooze Fest... and they were wrong... if anything, it was worse than Unbreakable and 6th Sense... ("Wide Awake", and "Praying With Anger" I have not seen, nor will I bother...) There were so many holes in the plot it wasn't even funny (aliens who are susceptable to water land on a planet where water makes up almost 80% of EVERYTHING on the planet!?! Please... one good fog woulda wiped them out... The humidity alone would have been killing these things... How stupid can you get...)

Tremors made more sense... and was better acted... and better scripted... THAT'S how BAD Signs was...

Sinsull... ^5s eh! (on both counts)

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:28 PM

ClintonHammond-Not to be overly pedantic, but you were the one who asserted that ALL crop circles are hoaxes. While the burden of proof would be on me if I claimed that a given crop circle was not a hoax, it remains on you to prove that as a rule, ALL crop circles are BY DEFINITION hoaxes. I agree that the movie had plot holes you could drive a truck through, but so does Snow White. Enjoy it for what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:45 PM

Clinton - Really? How do you know that? Are you the guy who's been making them all (crop circles)??? :-) I'm impressed! You must really get around.

In saying categorically that all crop circles are hoaxes you have made a blanket statement of pure faith that would humble most born-again Christians, ol' pal. I bet you would've argued for the excommunication of Galileo too...back then, and the execution of Socrates. I mean, there wasn't a shred of proof for their wild assertions either, as far as the conventional authoritative educated higher-ups of their times were concerned...and the general, ignorant public was right there in line with the higher-ups too.

Way to go, Clint, Baby! Lay down that law of absolute certainty, and rest secure at night in a World where all questions have nice, simple, conventional answers.

Lurker - I don't know why. That's partly why I find them so interesting. I've seen some possible theories, but I won't bore you with them.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 09 Apr 03 - 11:49 PM

Little Hawk-I would be very interested to hear any theory which explains both the means and the motive for the creation of crop circles, aside the commonly accepted one of "wooden boards and ropes, because a couple teenagers were bored of cow-tipping."

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:04 AM

I know in my mind that all crop circles are bullshit...

Do I need/expect you to, or care if you agree with me???

Not even a little bit...

" Enjoy it for what it is"

I have a room for enjoying stuff like that... it's got tiled walls and a cool echo sometimes... and there's even a special place to sit while I enjoy stuff like that... Especially designed to wisk away stuff like that when I'm done 'enjoying' it...

M Night sucks... plain and simple... but that's not what this thread is about...

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 01:14 AM

Sorry, but I have a tough time believing ETs are venturing great distances across the galaxy just to make goofy symbols in our wheat fields (even though some of them are quite nice looking).

Unless they come from the planet Goldsworthy.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 09:39 AM

This is an interesting website by some of the people who have been out there creating the art.

circlemakers

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 10:03 AM

Ooops

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: GUEST,Bagpuss
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 11:31 AM

Try again...

circlemakers

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: PeteBoom
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 02:59 PM

Signs - "The Birds" without the birds and without the drama and certainly without the suspense.... with a lame resolution to "wrap it up" - and throw in the loss/restoration of faith to make people think there was a point to the nonsense.

Sixth Sense had more "spiritual" symbolism in it - check out the kid playing with the toy knights (one of which looked a bit like a Knight Templar) reciting Latin ("I cry out from the depths, oh Lord...")

%-P

Pete

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 05:22 PM

I thought the Harry Potter films were much closer to having serious spiritual symbolism than Signs.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Apr 03 - 05:53 PM

Scary. Clinton agrees with me. As to the fog - Clinton, like everyone else, the aliens had rolls of saran wrap and duct tape.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: mutineer
Date: 11 Apr 03 - 12:06 AM

interesting...
Thanks for all the tips guys
I'll post my report here soon...
-nmutineer

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 12:09 AM

I never really viewed crop circles as a hoax, but more as a sort of performance and visual/environmental art combined. The mystery of how they got there and what they meant just added to the effect of the art. If they were supposed to mean anything earth-shattering, then fuck it, the messages could have been less cryptic.

As to the movie, yes it licked... badly. I was waiting for Mel Gibson to spit in the alien's face. At least that would have been good for a laugh. Why piss around with the baseball bat? And wasn't there any dew on the corn?

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 01:39 AM

Cluin - Good points! I wondered about the dew too. :-)

Clint, baby! ...at no point was I implying or inferring that you care. I know you don't.

Lurker - Just don't have time now for that stuff. Maybe in a couple of days. PM me if I forget.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Peg
Date: 13 Apr 03 - 01:56 AM

yes, dumb movie ultimately thoguh i did liek the atmospheric shots in the cornfields...
I did like The Sixth Sense quite a bit...
I once saw crop circles being made near Avebury, the week of summer solstice; some hippies just sort of stomping down the barley fileds in broad daylight. But nearby were some real crop circles made by fok who clearly knew what they were doing...very cool.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 12:55 AM

Oh, and Clint...Yes, but all bullshit is not crop circles! Stepped in any lately?

(I think "bullshit" is a very overused word these days, and is indicative of the stupidity and barbarity of the society whence the expression sprang. Same as the phrase "kick ass". It's pathetic. This society hardly even deserves to be called a civilization. It's nothing more than a huge soulless marketing machine, pretending to be a "democracy". Ha.)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 01:15 AM

That's just bullshit, LH.   ;)


Norman: "You like that word, don't you... bullshit?"

Billy: "Yeah."

Norman: "It's a good word."

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:10 AM

Yeah, but is it as manly as "Fuckin' A"???

Who are Norman and Billy?

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:23 AM

Henry Fonda and Doug McKeon in "On Golden Pond".

What about "Awright, GIVE `ER!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:30 AM

Oh, and I didn't care much for "Sixth Sense". I had the surprise twist ending pegged about 10 minutes into the movie. I thought "Stir of Echoes" was a much better flick along those lines.

"Unbreakable"? Dumb premise, dumb story. But, as usual, the character of the villian was once again far more interesting than the hero. Why are the heroes always so boring and ingenuous to a cookie-cutter fault? Even in those stupid Mike Myers movies, Dr. Evil is a better character than the title role. He's one the kids are all imitating.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:42 AM

" Oh, and I didn't care much for "Sixth Sense". I had the surprise twist ending pegged about 10 minutes into the movie. I thought "Stir of Echoes" was a much better flick along those lines."

You and me both, bro! On all counts...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:51 AM

Eh, you just like Kevin Bacon `cause of "Tremors".    ;)

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 02:58 AM

"Exactly how many cows does it take to make a stampede, Earl? Is there a minimum ground speed?"

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 03:03 AM

Tremors was a totally desent flick eh? I gotta rent it again. I look like the hero in that one, only I'm better lookin eh? Signs was dumb. Ya dont fight spacemen with a baseball bat! Not unless they are major losers, and if they made it al lthe way here to Earth that would not be to flippin likely eh? Mel Gibson is a big fake. But he was good in Braveheart. Just dont make me go to any movie with flippin SUBtittles!!!

BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 08:53 AM

Cluin-I think it's because in Hollywood, a hero is always motivated by the same basic idea of goodness, where a villain can have many possible motivations. I rather liked "Unbreakable," mostly because the villain had such a unique motivation.

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 06:46 PM

I love subtitled movies. You can follow what's happening so much better. I was worried I was going deaf, the way I couldn't make head nor tail of the dialogue in so mnay modern films. Then I saw an old film again in the cinema, and realised it wasn't my hearing, it's the way they make the soundtracks.

And as for movies that are dubbed into English...

Subject: RE: BS: M. Night's 'SIGNS' - Spiritual Symbolism
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 03 - 07:59 PM

But if we had called them 'hoaxes' no one would have cared about them.