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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Midchuck Date: 25 Apr 03 - 12:33 PM Alright, who stole my P. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: SeanM Date: 25 Apr 03 - 12:45 PM We didn't steal it, we just turned it around The TriLiBeeral Commission strikes again. M |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 03 - 01:14 PM "So some things we could say in a free society are best left unsaid." Such as saying that a man like Bush is an embarrassment? Would pointing out that John Paul II is a Catholic fall into the same category of things best left unsaid? |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Rustic Rebel Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:11 PM Rick, I just saw Ricky Skaggs a few weeks ago, I don't think he looked that plump. Maybe he was using someone elses body! Rustic ps. The woman who said that about Bush, was it Natalie? Said, "I am who I am and I'm not going to change who I am" Right on Dixie Chick! |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Spartacus Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:18 PM ARRRGGHHHHH. I can't believe this topic even merits a thread. The dixie chicks are a pop music group. The fat one apologized because all they want to do is sell records. They don't want ANYONE to be mad at them. Now, because they have no decision making ability of thier own, their trying to twist the "apology" into a "we didn't apologize, we just said it was disrespectful" thing. These women annoy me to no end. Did any of you know that they had one of those "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" nude photos taken, and then told PETA that they couldn't use it at the last minute because they were worried their "country" fans might be hunters and wouldn't like them anymore? There's even a rumor that the tried to pay PETA not to talk about it. It should be clear to everyone that the the thing at the top of the Dixie Chicks priority list is selling records and making money. They did the naked magazine cover for publicity. They hope that publicity will sell more records. I'm tired of it. They fired the last lead singer they had because she was too "traditional", and wouldn't make crappy "new country" music with them. I fully support everyone's right to say what they want to say when they want to say it. But for god's sake if your in the public eye, be prepared to back up what you say. The Dixie Chicks are media whores. This whole event doesn't deserve a thread here, much less a Diane Sawyer interview. If you want to hear strong, talented women with opinions that cant' be bought, buy an Ani Difranco cd. (I don't even like her music so much, but I respect the hell out of her for her talent, ideals, and refusal to back down and give in for money) Listen to Gillian Welch. Madonna can't even play an instrument, but she has the sense to stand behind what she says. Dolly Parton represents what a lot of feminists wouldn't like, but at least she says it loud and refuses to change it for anyone. (whew, glad I got that off of my chest) Spartacus |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:24 PM So Spartacus, tell us how you really feel. :-) |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,Russ Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:28 PM Sigh. Same old South. Same old Shit. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:39 PM Looking at the standing one (don't know her name), she looks pregnant. Look at that tummy! Makes me think it's not a body double. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Peter T. Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:42 PM Of course it merits a thread. We are talking about naked women making tattood statements in defence of their right to make stupid statements about a dopy president. It is part of the great Barnum and Bailey media circus: get some cotton candy and get a seat near the clown section. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:13 PM I think that pretty well sums it up! |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:14 PM "Cotton candy" - we call it "candy floss". Mix a little bit of sugar with a lot of empty air. A great way to make a little go a long way. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Little Hawk Date: 25 Apr 03 - 04:14 PM Spartacus, I pretty much agree with you on this one. It's crass marketing of a very predictable sort that the Dixie Chicks have done with that magazine cover. Given the fact that that's what pop singers do, though, it's a clever piece of crass marketing...and will probably sell lots of records. I agree if you want to recognize a real representative of protest in music...listen to Ani DiFranco...or Joan Baez...or Joni Mitchell ("sex sells everything...and sex kills"). Meaningful protest must be aimed at the very marketing game itself or it is missing the boat. - LH |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Rick Fielding Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:19 PM Spartacus. It merits a thread because it was a FUCKING JOKE!! The kind of much-needed occasional light hearted "nuthin" during a period when Mudcat has been ohhhhh so serious. My intial post was: "Good Grief! So THIS is why my favourite music has remained so unpopular all these years? Oh, if only Bill Monroe or Ralph Stanley had shown a little skin. Ricky Scaggs? If that big (and I mean BIG) ol' country boy ain't got a lot to love (looks like the 'pickin' porker's runnin' about 275 these days) then I'm no judge of horse flesh. The other big news from the 'Chicks' this morning is that "They DON'T apologize after all"!! Yup, the heat wasn't as bad as they thought it would be, so Natalie's back to her 'Dubya dissin' position. Whahoo! Ride 'em gal!" Not a very serious intro, right? Perhaps we need a few more Iraq threads, or even one more 'real' Bluegrass thread to fill up with inaccurate information. By the way, Madonna plays guitar (knows all her up the neck barre chords) and bass. It's pretty common knowledge that she was in several rock bands. But sadly.....even after MY rant, I have to say....The Chicks leave me cold, naked or in rhinestones! On the other hand, it would have been hilarious if the PETA ads HAD gotten out, ha ha! Cheers Rick |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: TIA Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:26 PM Peter T. it was very disrespectful of you to call that moron dopey. Apologize! |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kim C Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:39 PM so if I show the violin tattoo on my ass, will I sell some records? |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 03 - 05:46 PM Hey, Spartacus, this feminist likes Dolly Parton just fine. She can dress the way she wants, say what she wants, and do what she wants. She's one smart businesswoman and writes some nice songs. I don't know a lot of her music, I'm on the barest periphery of her admirers, so I can't give you much more detail than this. Feminism is no longer illustrated exclusively by unkempt women with hairy armpits and no cosmetics. This is thread drift of a sort, but it's also germane, in that it's just one more reason why the Dixie Chicks are entitled to say what they want or pose if they want--because they can. They're smart businesswomen, and can make their choices based on income or altruism or politics. They're also real women with real bodies, and considering that they have had babies, they're looking pretty darned good. That really takes the starch out of you! I don't see anything in that photo to be ashamed of or that needs airbrushing. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Peter T. Date: 25 Apr 03 - 06:26 PM I apologise, but will not stoop to the unclothed fury of nakedness as exemplified by those bastionettes of freedom, Les Chiques Dixies. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Don Firth Date: 25 Apr 03 - 06:32 PM At the risked of being deemed serious, I posted some comments on another thread. So I don't use up bandspace by posting it twice, you can catch it HERE. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:32 PM "Such as saying that a man like Bush is an embarrassment? Would pointing out that John Paul II is a Catholic fall into the same category of things best left unsaid? " If that was all she said then there would have been no fuss - gross nuttin. She said 'she was ashamed that G W Bush the President of the US is from the state of Texas' Read the original thread if you want the get the rest of the detail. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:21 PM And what is this so significant difference between saying you're ashamed of someone and that you're embarassed at him? I'd have thought that "I'm ashamed to be seen with you" means the same as "I'm embarrassed to be seen with you". (And on a different point - there's nothing wrong or "unreal" with women who are unkempt with hairy armpits. Or any other sort.) |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 03 - 08:26 PM Nope, there isn't, McGrath. But the "look" was associated almost exclusively with the hard core feminists for a while, and assumptions were made about your politics if you didn't bother to shave your legs or your pits. A lot of these things have relaxed over the years. Thank goodness! SRS |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Spartacus Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:01 PM I hate to sound vain...but I don't think anyone can argue with my point. To Stilly River Stage, I must point out that the pictures you're seeing on the cover of "Entertainment weekly" are not an honest representation of how the Dixie Chicks look. They are obviously airbrushed and stretched. Most magazine covers are. I don't even really have a problem with the fact that the picture is airbrushed. It's the IDEA that bugs me. These women don't have a love for music, and for making music. They have a love for being loved. They would do anything to make sure that no one dislikes them. THAT makes them people that I can't respect. I'll tell you something honest. I would love to get famous for playing music. Not famous in a Madonna way, but just enough to call it my job. My ideal of famous is to be like Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zandt, Martin Sexton, etc. The point of spending your life making music and getting people to listen to your art is NOT getting famous. It's making music because you love to make it. Money and fame are a by-product. If you can achieve enough fame to have a public voice, I can only hope that anyone who does will have the strength and intelligence to promote the veiws they stand behind without being a victim to big company politics. Make your art because you believe in your art. I know a lot of working musicians who have a vision for making a particular kind of music, and who won't change for anyone. I also know people who would jump on any bandwagon that came by if it would make them money. You decide which person you want to be. Every time I play a show, I vocally support the people who keep trying to make the music they want to make for the right reasons.... Ok...that's probably enough... sorry to go on so long. I just feel very strongly about these kind of things.... -Spartacus |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:29 PM I saw only one high paid media whore on the Diane Sawyer interview of the Dixie Chicks. She wasn't a musician. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:37 PM That's an awfully big claim you're making, that these women "don't have a love for music," when they've been working at it for quite a while on the local scene and were just what you describe, "working musicians." I would think that posing nude isn't the way to make sure that "no one dislikes them." There are a lot of folks down here in their old stomping grounds who would scruple to criticise the nudity. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:00 PM Mister McGrath of Harlow. She said, quote "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas" Try this "Just so you know I am ashamed Mr McGrath is English" said by an Enlish person about you here in the USA. Either one is ashamed that Englishness is one of Mr McGs qualities OR one is ashamed that Mr McG is one of Englands qualities, either way is really stinks! If that is not offensive I don't know what is. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: NicoleC Date: 25 Apr 03 - 10:14 PM Because, SRS, it's the old double standard. A woman who displays her feminity without shame must be a worthless whore. Oh sure, guys WANT some women to do it in nudie mags, but they won't respect them. Ergo, female musicians who pose nude must not be worthy of respect as musicians. Of course it's a ridiculous publicity stunt. That's how famous musicians usually get famous and particulary how they STAY famous. It'd be a nice world if musicians were solely judged on their musicianship and artistic merit and heartfelt desire, but it ain't so. You're right, Spartacus, it's a choice. They choose to market themselves in the most feasible way given their physical assets, and it worked. They wanted to make a living as musicians, and guess what? They're making a living as musicians... and if they hadn't done it, they'd still be most the popular weekend act in town and nothing else. Either way, they'd like music as much. Personally, I think the photo is tastefully done and (inadvertantly?) symbolic. They are at risk because they bared their political thoughts -- and it didn't jive with the country music scene. What's a little no-really-revealing skin after that? |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Spartacus Date: 25 Apr 03 - 11:28 PM I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter if the photo is tasteful. The point is that they are in the process of defending a comment one them made that they can't/won't back up now. None of this would be happening if they weren't so worried about the backlash of the lead singers comments. You didn't even think the cover photo was airbrushed.... The Dixie Chicks may in fact have a love for music. It's a shame that the love for music takes a back seat to thier public image. I would have been impressed if she had made the comment, gotten in trouble and said, "screw you. I feel this way" and then posed nude without the benefit of computer enhancement and said "screw you, I look this way. Most women do." THAT would character, courage, a love for music regardless of what the media thinks. If they really loved thier music and believed in it, the fans would always come back. Ok..that's it, I swear. I've already wasted too much time on this topic.... -Spartacus |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Apr 03 - 12:08 AM No, I simply don't care if the photo was airbrushed. But I also wonder why you must presume that they aren't beautiful women who could in fact successfully pose for such a shot? Hell, if I pulled in my tummy I could probably get away the torso portion, and I'm several years older than any of them. The thighs need a bit of the stretch-effect, though. ;) Though a lot of people don't look "perfect," they're still honest enough to know they'd look okay, or interesting, in a photo. Perhaps that is the case here, but you read something else in, simply because they are relatively young women. It must be about sex, not about character? Look at the expressions on their faces. That's the most important part of the photo, anyway. Their eyes. Almost anything else in a photo can be a little off, and it's still okay. But if the eyes are shut, it doesn't work, because we all always look first at the eyes. You may look away to other parts quickly enough, but first you look at the eyes. And they didn't necessarily airbrush Maines, anyway. She's in the background, further back than you might think. It makes her look smaller, but it's just an old camera trick. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Kaleea Date: 26 Apr 03 - 01:26 AM Recently heard at a public place: "Those d*mn freakin' chicks--how dare they use our sacred 'Freedom of Speech' to say #$@*&^%$!! about the President!! Why, they oughtta be shot for bein' traitors for sayin' that!!" Things that make you go, "Hhhmmmmmmmmmmmm." |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,Arne Langsetmo Date: 26 Apr 03 - 01:51 AM Guess I get under Sorefingers's skin. Doesn't seem to be much of a challenge, though, seems pretty much everyone does it. . . . Sorefingers: ". . . with Freedom cometh Responsibility, and that requires a little education which OC presupposes a small ammount of intelligence; " I wouldn't push that point too much, SF. Your spelling is nothing to brag about, and that may limit _your_ options. . . . But (more) seriously, are you _really_ of the opinion that it's only the "intelligent" that should be allowed to exercise their freedom? What a curious notion. . . . Sounds, well, "un-American". But perhaps I misunderstood you here; you might have been suggesting that the prerequisite for freedom was that the person in question have percisely this "small ammount [sic] of intelligence", and that the crux of your complaint against the Dixie Chicks is that they're over-qualified. Sorefingers: "Perhaps Marty oughta leave it alone while she is still ahead?, while the cops are now still merely watching what she is doing rather than getting a warrant? Perhaps Arne you might be on the list as well? Perhaps when the FBI are sniffing around in the lobby? doin the dooo ain't kosher ... Arne.. " Hey, why don't you drop a dime and turn me in to the TIPS program? Maybe Ashcroft will let _you_ wear an armband too. . . . Sorefingers: "I thought they were dissing G W for being dumb???" I don't think so. I think they were dissing him for being a thin-skinned warmongering bully. But perhaps a dumb one at that. . . . But back to the substance of my prior post: To my knowledge, the Dixie Chicks are _still_ on top despite your caterwauling about how they're crashing and burning and the efforts of the RNC and its powerful friends in the media to stifle them (something your nasty little reply didn't address). Maybe the Chicks aren't so "dumb" after all. . . . * * * * * To the rest of the people out there: I saw the Chicks back when they played the WVF in Winfield regularly. They _do_ love their music. And I don't think that the notion that Europeans don't know about bluegrass and country music is true at all; festivals over there highlight perfomers from the U.S., and the Netherlands is heaven for U.S. bluegrass bands, with some bands even producing records over there, and some major bluegrass labels out of the Netherlands. . . . True, if you want "political" music, there's more and better out there (and a couple of the better ones have been named; even in Austin you have the Austin Lounge Lizards with their classic "Jesus Loves Me But He Can't Stand You"), but the Chicks do "step out" a bit from the standard country mold with such songs as "Earl" (and this may be part of Sorefingers's irritation with them). Cheers, -- Arne Langsetmo |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: gnu Date: 26 Apr 03 - 07:03 AM I enjoy their music. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Jeep man Date: 26 Apr 03 - 11:19 AM So what do we give a cuss what three rich twits say about anything? Jim |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST,sorefingers Date: 26 Apr 03 - 12:48 PM Arne the MS Word user found a spell check button on the toolbar, hey folks, this dude knows all about tools: his days at Prixie Dicks squakingbowl playing pocket ball made him a better wanker, and so it is no surprise that he would grab at some, well anything, that made him look better here where he is yet another troll. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Don Firth Date: 26 Apr 03 - 01:03 PM Frankly, I haven't the time or interest to check this out, but does anyone know for absolute sure that they posed in the nude? With a good photo-fiddling program, I could put George W. Bush's head on Divine's body and make lots of folks believe it grew there. You can't play as well as they do without loving the music. Much ado about a bit of bare hide. I think there are more important issues here. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Peter T. Date: 26 Apr 03 - 06:20 PM Hey, the most powerful man in the world talked about them, they must be important (GWB was asked about the DCs during his interview yesterday). yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Sam L Date: 26 Apr 03 - 07:10 PM It's fun what feelings something like this turns up. I enjoy hearing the DC's but feel they are likably bad, corny, with hokey sentiments and stuff--that drum bit in their recent soldier song gives me shivers it's so awful. I don't see any big offence, or any problem with their toning down their remarks if people felt they were foul. Or claim to feel that--I think it's disingenuous over-reaction. People do that. D. Quayle courted comparison to JFK and when he was called on it, he huffily felt it was "uncalled for". Nonsense--he called for it, in the first place. Likewise, being president of a free country makes anyone's feelings about you called-for. What is this smallness in some conservatives, in regard to criticism--what does it really mean? Kim C--I don't know, but it's worth a try. The whole re-touched photo body-double line of interest is fun too. I think photographers try to make appealing photographs, keep an eye on what they think is right for the time and their audience. It's funny how politics shades into how nude women are depicted--as a kid I recall the only place you could find pictures of ordinary naked women were in books about witchcraft and stuff. Hm. Then I was surprised and unprepared for how people feel so strongly about women shaving--I hardly noticed, the thing of it escapes me. I guess if someone was really unusually hairy it might strike me, but then, many women feel that way about guys too. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 03 - 08:40 PM The article says: "Through it all, the Dixie Chicks latest album, Home, has sold more than 6 million copies. The disc, which has been near the top of the album chart for 30 weeks, slid three spots to No. 7 in the week after the controversy began — dropping from 123,000 copies to 71,000." Yeah--71,000 in weekly sales is a real indication that no one is buying your records. By April 4th, and again on the 19th, "Home" was back at #1 on the Country Music album charts. Faith Hill and Vince Gill both came out in defence of the Chicks. As several people have noted, their US tour that is scheduled to begin in the next week or so will be a sell out at every stop. All this without their music being played by right wing macho asshole DJs on Clear Channel country stations. So what does this tell you about the relevance of the Fox/Clear Channel war mongering media hype, and the conservative country music establishment's view of "patriotism"? Answer: that the country music listening audience doesn't reflect the demographic the fascists claim it does, and the so-called "overwhelming majority of Americans" don't agree with the Fox/Clear Channel media blitzkrieg of right wing faux patriotism. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 03 - 08:50 PM I forgot to mention, their album was back at #1 and their tour sold out BEFORE they posed for a nude magazine cover. I thought the message they were trying to send was brilliantly done, myself. Like one of them said, it wouldn't have worked to paint the words on their clothes. I think the photo is the best piece of satirical commentary on the right wing's censorship and silencing of dissent campaign of the entire war. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 03 - 09:01 PM I like the Dixies as well. I seem to remember getting 'For The Roses' by Joni Mitchell as a birthday present as a teenager. Wasn't she naked on some rocks on the inside album cover? Maybe I have missed the point..or maybe Mudcat wasn't around then. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 26 Apr 03 - 10:17 PM Hey there Guest 9:01. I like the Dixie Chicks too--including their music AND their musical talent. Here are a couple of my favorite responses to the dissing of Bush by Maines: "MADISON, Wis. -- Officials in Madison, Wis., may be in political hot water, as a new city council resolution offends some, and amuses others. Ten of 20 council members have already signed onto the controversial resolution, which offers city support to the Dixie Chicks, after they were attacked for criticizing the president and war. The group has seen a backlash of lost air time and ticket and CD sales. Now alderman Ken Golden has stepped in to help, offering the Chick's support, including the keys to the city, and bottle of French wine -- keeping alive Madison's zany reputation." And then there is the response from the Concerned Women For America, or the CWFA. You really need to go here to believe it: He Has Risen (apparently in Texas) according to these ladies |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 27 Apr 03 - 11:42 AM It occurs to me that the reason they bought off the photographer with the lovely nude picture among the flowers is because they knew the cover shot was coming, and they didn't want any competing shot available. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Spartacus Date: 27 Apr 03 - 02:05 PM In response to those of you who think that just because a group has sold a ton of records and sells out concerts must mean that a group is making good music; I'll give you a quote from one very talented man: "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." -Frank Zappa yep. Spartacus |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 27 Apr 03 - 02:39 PM "In response to those of you who think that just because a group has sold a ton of records and sells out concerts must mean that a group is making good music..." No one said that Spartacus. Those of us who have cited the Dixie Chicks ability to sell records in spite of the tempest in the teapot caused by the right wing Republican controlled media, have made the point that the so-called boycott has been totally ineffective, if the intent of it was to destroy the careers of the Dixie Chicks (which I believe was the vicious intent of the boycott organizers and those who honor it). You seem to be claiming for yourself the right to use your personal taste in musicians, to judge whether the Dixie Chicks have musical talent. That sort of fallacious argument gets you nowhere. Frank Zappa was no scientist, and some would claim he wasn't much of a musician, either. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Peter T. Date: 27 Apr 03 - 03:10 PM Zappa may have not been a scientist, but he is certainly right about the ratio of hydrogen to stupidity. yours, Peter |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Sam L Date: 27 Apr 03 - 04:05 PM It's a hard claim to support that Zappa wasn't much of a musician. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Don Firth Date: 27 Apr 03 - 04:25 PM Spartacus, I don't judge someone's music by the number of CDs or concert tickets they sell, I judge with my ears, my mind, and my feelings. I also know enough about the techniques of different instruments (such as guitar, 5-string banjo, and violin) to know when someone has put in a lot of time in the woodshed to learn how to play their instrument. These ladies have. People don't go to that kind of effort unless they love what they're doing (I always question whether those who don't like to practice really like the music when they don't want to go to the trouble to learn to play it well). The Dixie Chicks sound good, they have some pretty interesting arrangements, they do a lot of good songs, and, if you watch them, it's obvious that they're getting a blast out of what their doing. And CD and ticket sales do tend to indicate that lots of people enjoy what they do. When you add it all together, I sounds to me like they're pretty good musicians. N'est-ce pas? Frankly, when picking through a stack of CDs to listen to, the Dixie Chicks would not necessarily be my first choice. But I do like what they do, and if they show up on TV or on the radio, I listen and enjoy. I much prefer them to the vast number of musicians out there who sell more CDs and concert tickets than the Chicks do, but who, in my fairly well-educated opinion (I can supply my credentials if you wish), really stink as musicians. Getting famous and selling lots of CDs and concert tickets is more a matter of luck and being at the right place at the right time than it is of musicianship, but being a good musician does tend to increase one's chances. But it's not a guarantee. I don't begrudge those who happen to get lucky, unless they're all image and no substance. As musicians—and as human beings—the Dixie Chicks have plenty of substance. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: GUEST Date: 27 Apr 03 - 06:19 PM "It's a hard claim to support that Zappa wasn't much of a musician." No more hard a claim than to say Bob Dylan isn't much of a musician. Our opinions are not facts, especially when it comes to iconoclast musicians, and I include the Dixie Chicks in the list of iconoclast musicians. If I love Frank Zappa, but hate John Lennon and the next guy loves Lennon and hates Zappa, who is factually correct when I say Lennon is an excellent musician, and the other person says he is crap? Let us not forget, very gifted musicians have a tendency to make such claims about one another with a fair amount of frequency, though rarely as a matter of public discussion or debate. Defining what makes an excellent musician is often a highly subjective matter of opinion. |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Frankham Date: 27 Apr 03 - 08:35 PM Spartacus, It doesn't matter what you say to the media because they will twist it around to suit them. Artists have to spend thousands to sue the people that misquote them and often the only recompense is a small retraction somewhere at the bottom of the page where no one can read it. Who knows what the Dixie Chicks really said? I guess those who were at the concert could tell us. I don't think it was televised. And yes it is important that they exercise the right to say what they think, whether it offends some or not. As for some things left unsaid because it suits the agenda of someone's politics...well....this is the ploy of a dictatorship. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Frankham Date: 27 Apr 03 - 08:37 PM BTW, the Chicks can pick and sing! I don't care for the "snuff Earl" song too much but these are popular artists who are very talented. I'd love to hear them do a traditional album some day. They're right up their with Dolly, I think. Frank Hamilton |
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Subject: RE: Dixie Chicks Undressed, Unrepentant! From: Sam L Date: 28 Apr 03 - 11:55 AM Guest, I think that's true enough, but there may as well be some basic recognition of facility. People say Dylan isn't much of a singer. Well, one may not like his voice, but I think it's hard to say he doesn't get a lot more musicality out of it than you'd expect. My personal notion of the dixie Chicks is quite apart from facility--I just have issues of taste with their stuff, the doggy emotionalism of it. I like a little more cat-like coolness about the more obvious emotions, a bit of indirection. The songs of theirs I've heard are blunt, they milk the songs, and there's nothing left over, nothing lingers. Just my feeling. On the other hand I guess I like them as much or possibly more than others in that sort of vein, they're all quite attractive people, clothed or not, tummied or lean, I don't care if they get naked for whatever reason. Commercial success doesn't prove anything one way or another, but rising in the market does make some demands on you, imposes some limitations, a little 'branding' of what you can do, making choices to be known and recognised in a particular way. For some people a lot of that comes naturally, though. It can affect people, draw you in to the game of hitting and missing, wanting to do well for your crew and support. Some stuff I used to sell, I'd have an idea which were the best, but at the end of the day whatever hadn't sold started to look a little sour to me. Much as I deplore threats and intimidation, I'm not going to run out and buy a cd in support, because I hear enough of them without trying, and I don't think they need financial help, or extra credit. |
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