Word meanings in a couple of songs?

Subject: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 12:57 PM

These may have been explained before, but I can't find them.

Meaning of "swamp angels" in the song State of Arkansas, as in the line - "Farewell to swamp angels, cane breaks and chills..."


And the use of "mourners" in There Was an Old Coot from Tennessee -
as in "I went to hear them mourners sing and pray..." - its some kind of group within a church.


I have a general sense of what these mean, but everytime I sing them I always wonder. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: Watson
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:08 PM

According to this, it looks like swamp angels are mosquitos.

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:11 PM

Wow - I never thought about 'skeeters' - makes great sense.

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: Amos
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:37 PM

Mourners are people who attend a funeral.

A

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: MMario
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 01:40 PM

or - depending on the age of the song - or the period it is placed in - they are professionals who do the public grieving

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 02:03 PM

Participants in a church service or at a baptism were once called mourners or moaners.

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 03:45 PM

I know the generally accepted term for "mourners" - This, however, seems to imply a special sub-sect within the church structure. This song, in its original form, is talking, I believe, about an Afro-American fundamentalist church (Baptist?) around 1900.

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 04:57 PM

Mis-spelled word in DT version of "State of Arkansas." Should be canebrakes. A brake is a stretch of more or less swampy land, covered with one kind of plant. A very old word, found in print in this sense from the 16th century.

As I said previously mourners (moaners) was applied to the singing members in black (and often white) churches in the south, Baptist but sometimes Methodist.
"Old Coot from Tennessee" is derived from "Coon from Tennessee" (I'm Gonna Live Anyhow Until I Die) and several other titles in the collections. A lot on information in thread 22794: Coot From Tennessee
For one antecedent, go to American Memory and in Search, find "I'm Gonna Live Anyhow 'till I Die." The first line is "Now there's a coon down in Tennessee Who is as quaint as he can be."
The song has many floating verses from other songs, mostly Negro and minstrel. Mourners is from one of the floating verses.
More later.

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 24 Apr 03 - 05:49 PM

One of many Negro religious songs with mourn (moan) is "Holy Ghost, I Done Done." Note the lines;
You told me to sing, an' I done dat too,
Now I done done what you told me to do.

You told me to moan (mourn), an' I done dat too,
Now I done done what you told me to do.

You told me to weep, an' I done dat too,
Now I done done what you told me to do.

North Carolina, 1925, in White, American Negro Folk-Songs.

For My Jesus Ever More

I'm gonna mourn right on de shore,
Lord, I'm gonna mourn right on de shore,
I'm gonna mourn right on de shore,
For my Jesus, Lordy, for my Jesus ever more.
From "Honey in the Rock," Alabama religious songs.

Anywhere, Anytime

Everybody oughter pray so God can use them,
Anywhere, anytime.
Everybody oughter moan so God can use them,
Everywhere en anytime.

Sing, live, mourn, preach, etc. etc.

O mourner, you shall be free
When the good Lord set you free.

Floaters:
I'm goin' ter live on de high till I die, etc. (Alabama)

I'm going to live anyhow till I die (twice)
Stick and stones may break my bones;
'Cause I talk about a body when they are dead and gone.
I'm going to live anyhow till I die, (twice)
Sticks and stones may break my bones;
I'm going to start a graveyard of my own;
I'm going to live anyhow till I die.
(North Carolina). Both examples from White, American Negro Folk-songs.
Several examples of the razor verse.

All of the verses are from minstrel songs and Negro songs, re-cast by many singers.

Subject: RE: Word meanings in a couple of songs?
From: Les B
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 01:44 AM

Guest Q, thanks for all the info - your definition of mourner/moaners is what I thought from context - not just weepers & wailers at a burial, but participants in other church services too.

I knew the song was originally "Coon from Tennessee" - rather a clever bit of re-writing to make it more palatable. I first heard it on a Greenbriar Boys album back in the late sixties (as coot) and have always liked its drive.

I probably did the spelling error on cane brake - I've always kind of known what a brake was - swamp angels being mosquitos, however, was a real surprise. Thanks all - the info one can find quickly at Mudcat never ceases to amaze me.