Bob Dylan offically sells out?

Subject: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Spartacus
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:22 PM

That last Dixie Chicks thread reminded me....Did anyone see the car commerical with the Bob Dylan track playing on it? Did you get the same feeling you had when you heard the Eric Clapton Michelob "After Midnight" commerical, or the Jimmy Hendrix car commerical with "Fire" playing? Do you think it's a sell out, or just a song to be sold?
I always loved Bob for not caving in...but now....
How do you old time Dylan fans feel about it?

-Spartacus

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:26 PM

I don't know this for sure, but I don't think the artist has to give permission for a song to be used in a commercial. If the song has already been recorded, it's out there, and as long as the commercial makers pay the royalties, they can use the song. I may be wrong about that, and if I am, someone please tell me.

I always figured John Lennon would roll over in his grave if he knew that "Revolution" was being used as a jingle to sell athletic shoes.

Hardly anyone writes any good jingles anymore - it's too easy to knockoff a song, or use a song that's already been recorded.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:28 PM

And how about that ad using Janis Joplin's "Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz" song selling... you guessed it... Mercedes Benz ;-)

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:28 PM

Mr Bob Dylan sold out years ago.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:32 PM

Music and tv commercials go side by side. Why not Dylan music. It's all a big industry- music, television. I mean you could say he caved just by selling music to a corporate record label, or going electric!
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:32 PM

I was gonna say the same thing Giok...

It's just a song... so what...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 02:36 PM

Little hard for Jimi Hendrix to sell out. He's kinda dead. Been that way for awhile.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: chip a
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:09 PM

Janice too. Dead, that is.

Chip

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: menzze
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:32 PM

worse than this I think is that he also seem to have put a lot of money into shares of the military industry years ago.

how does this fit together with his lyrics?

menzze

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Peter T.
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM

I would like to know the answer to the question about whether the artist has any control over the use to which their songs are put. If they are owned by someone else -- like one's publishing company -- can one have veto rights? I think the use of Revolution was scummy; but the use of "Start Me Up" -- though I hate Microsoft -- was ok -- maybe the Rolling Stones are already scum. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 03:59 PM

You can save yourself needless anxiety about these burning questions by adopting the Little Hawk self-defence technique...just don't watch TV. :-) Your brain will thank you someday.

I have never yet bought a car...or anything else...because of a TV commercial. But I have avoided buying certain things because I did not like their advertising.

- LH

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 07:30 PM

Little Hawk I have a real problem with that 'cos I outed my T V in 1987 so I dont have the option . I just do NOT watch,except when I
am visiting,And so far have seen remarkably little to make me want to
get another set.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Spartacus
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:10 PM

Well,
I can clear up the artist's right question for you. Artists like Dylan and Clapton had the decision to say "yes or no" to having those songs used in commericals. They copyright each song they write. Hendrix and Lennon's songs were sold to the respective advertising companies by the people who bought or inherited the ownership of those songs. Jimi Hendrix's family won a law suit giving them full ownership of Jimi's work. The John Lennon songs were initially bought by sony and sold to anyone who had the money to buy them (i.e. pepsi) Most of them were subsequently bought by none other than Michael Jackson, who won a lawsuit filed by Paul McCartney, who wanted to win them back. (he wrote a great deal of them and sold them back when he had alot less power).

To GIOK:
I'm not saying I disagree, but why do you think Bob Dylan sold out years ago?

-Spartacus

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: khandu
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 09:57 PM

Dylan's "Love Sick" was used to tout Victoria's Secret.

k

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Spartacus
Date: 25 Apr 03 - 11:29 PM

Khandu wins. I forgot what the ad was for....It was underwear. I still don't feel any better about it....

-Spartacus.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 07:17 AM

I haven't seen the commercial, what song is being played? Didn't see the Victoria's Secret one either (damn). A Canadian Bank used one of his early songs a few years ago, "The Times They Are a Changin'" I think.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: dwditty
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 08:06 AM

Having just gone through the process of licensing songs, I was told along the way that if a song is published, it is, by law, licenseable to anyone who pays the royalties. There are statutory rates that most publishers charge (of course Harry Fox adds a few bucks). I had a particularly hard time licensing Simple Twist of Fate simply because it was very difficult to locate Ram's Horn Music - go ahead, try our own google search. In the end, once I tracked down Bob Dylan Music in NYC, the process was simple and at the statutory rate. It does not seem the artist is much involved in the process - at least Bob never came to the phone. It is true that the publisher could charge an enormous rate for the use of a song, trying to prevent the use, but if the car company met the price, would this mean Dylan (or anyone) was a bigger sellout? : ) It seems a bit silly that Bob would need my $80, but rights is rights.

dw

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 08:21 AM

I don't get it. What's the big deal anyway? Bob's stuff is sacred or what? If Nissan had a commercial where some guy had a new Nissan delivered in a blinding flash from the heavens and then showed him driving it through pastoral scenes and blindingly fast on back country roads while through the whole thing the narrator recites the 23rd Psalm, damn near everyone on this thread would be splitting a gut laughing! Come to think of it, I oughta' send that to Nissan's ad agency.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: GUEST,Leo
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 10:09 AM

I can't be the only one who thinks the whole business of selling songs (like with the beatles and michael jackson) is the most ridiculous concept on earth?

anyway. bob dylan should never have crashed that damn motorbike.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 11:48 AM

Motor cycle accident, there's an interesting thought, I think he started to come back towards his earlier roots after that crash. Where I think he wobbled and got out of touch with his fans and beliefs was during, and after he and the blessed Joan were an item. As with all of us older folkies, [and after all we're all over 50 aren't we??] I prefer his earlier stuff. But I remember what a shock he was to the status quo, when he first arrived on the scene. Now that was controversial!!
He's still a monumental writer, and without equal in his genre.
Giok

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 12:07 PM

Dylan sells out. I've been through this debate since the "Open letter to Bob Dylan" appeared in Sing Out magazine back when it was a bi-monthly with those pebbly-grained tinted covers and they were small enough to curl around and slip into your "hip" pocket. And every time this argument rekindles itself I nod my head in agreement, think of all his poorish ways and feel the disappointment for my idol.
Then, inevitably, I'll hear one of his tunes and it touches me in a place I never knew existed. I also realize how much he has inspired me with his music, and I really don't care about his personality. IMHO he is one of America's outstanding creators. Up there with Woody, and Twain and lots of others.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: GUEST,portfolio manager
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 01:43 PM

worse than this I think is that he also seem to have put a lot of money into shares of the military industry years ago.

Another unsubstantiated bit of inuendo from a Mudcat member.

Is it true? I have absolutely no idea. What I do know is that menzze also has absolutely no idea.

BTW, menzze, I don't believe that you're the person who dyed Scott Peterson's hair blonde after he allegedly killed his wife. I mean, I'm pretty sure it wasn't you.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 05:06 PM

Military industry- General Motors? Boeing? General Dynamics? Microsoft? General Foods? Exxon? The military buys products from them all and many more, including hundreds of very small companies. Many of us work for or buy stock or otherwise make our living and build our savings and pay our mortgages because of benefits we receive from these companies.

I think most musicians want to make money from their compositions. This sell-out business is nonsense.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 05:55 PM

I've never been really clear on the Dylan "selling out" thing either, and I've been around since Irwin Silber was taking pot shots at him in Sing Out and other publications.

So, except for a couple of years when he was VERY young, he's always struck me as a pretty mainstream guy. He gets married, he has babies, he builds huge 'success' type houses, he actually WORRIES about God, religion, and all that stuff....and he writes some very memorable music. Oh, and he loves to tour and play....and at different periods drinks way too much.

He's a successful songwriter, and is part of the mainstream (the way HIS generation sees it)....any "selling out" seems mostly in the eye of the beholder to me.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 06:45 PM

Amen to that, Rick. But we gotta have SOMETHING to whine about, right?

Aloha,
Mark
...who will NEVER sell out. (Or even sell, for that matter...)

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan offically sells out?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Apr 03 - 09:20 PM

Mark, I forgot to tell you...the check's in the mail...