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BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: stevetheORC Date: 14 May 03 - 03:10 PM Well done very good result. Keep up the good work. Orc n Pushkin |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Catherine Jayne Date: 14 May 03 - 03:10 PM Well done Kate! I enjoyed reading it!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST,Sorch Date: 14 May 03 - 02:10 PM Well, she got it back today--159/195=81%. Lots of red ink on it, and stuff I/we knew it needed, but I wasn't about to say anything that close to the wire. Thanks, friends! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 May 03 - 03:36 PM Well, the "the arrogant, condescending asshole" might be a completely different person using the same handle, which can of course be done easily enough. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Amos Date: 03 May 03 - 02:03 PM Garg, Ya know, the way you keep slipping from one persona to another is entertaining as hell -- do you have any idea who the arrogant, condescending asshole with the cruel smartass attitude and the total lack of compassion who takes over your brain from time to time is, or where s/he comes from? Any chance you could maybe just send him back there, and get on with your life with the intelligent, communicative self we know is really in there? Do let us know -- we'd enjoy hearing that you found out who you are... Sheeshe. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 03 May 03 - 12:43 AM OK- the MudCat admissions committee review is in: The totaly B.S. catagory determines that a University Education, and higher education, or even seconday education is totally B.S. for this child.
Therefore, SORCHA - teach her cooking, cleaning, and chastity....pay a dowery for a husband.
For those that believe there is a future in the twiddling's education...contributions in $500.00 sums are being greatfully accepted....PM them to Joe, Kat, or Max.
Sincerely,
WANNBE - U's that would accept even YOU's are found at U's of: Phonix Kaplan Brooks Minnesota Michigan Santa Cruz Santa Barbara Wyoming Yes, even in your OWN BACKYARD - the bachelor of "health science" is freely available to those less than able. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: fiddler Date: 02 May 03 - 03:39 AM Spaw LOL And Your probably right! If there is any copy Sorch can send me I cna publish it too! Me site is there for my use and I like this one. More interesting than testing web sites. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: catspaw49 Date: 01 May 03 - 08:53 AM Ya' know fiddler, you bring up a side point here in a way that is worth mentioning. I'm sure I am not the only one who tends to perform up or down to the level of my own perception of the task. It's true in sports of course that people often play up to the level of the competition which is the reason dark horses win sometimes. They are inspired and the favorite isn't. It happens in everything. I don't know that I could make any kind of credible effort on this assignment. I would have been honestly tempted to turn in exactly what I mentioned above and roll the dice. If my writing is being judged then I would prefer that someone reads a solid effort such as I could do by writing a synopsis or report on Stoker's work rather than the hodgepodge, half-assed, non-attempt that I would make following the assignment. When I read Kate's report, some of that came through to me. Many of us could sit down with red pencil in hand and rip it apart but I really don't believe it is her best effort or actually indicative of her writing. Garg made some points in his inimitable and cruel manner that might be true, but I can't really tell nor would I make those criticisms without reading some other writings where she was more inspired. In the case of this one, as I said before, it was a serious job just to get the stupid thing done and now I would be breathing a sigh of relief that it's over! So Kate...sometime post something you've written that you wrote simply for the sheer joy of writing and we'll be happy to comment, rip it up, praise the bejesus out of you, and probably all three! Spaw--who thinks your prof is an asshole and would have done far worse than you on this one |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: fiddler Date: 01 May 03 - 08:26 AM Waht a thread, It gets more interesting from here - I can relate to the ruined a book by the analysis route - although I did tend to enjoy it usually - so I'm weird I don't mind, No1 Daughter doen't understand whay it has to be doen and switches off. But first books - we had few at home my mother still refers to a magazine as a book but she is a geat mum and I won't criticise her for this. She also used to throw my books, aquired for Jumble sales, away when I was on Holiday or out of the house - she denies it of course. Coral Island - Balantyre - a classic proabably more for boys than girls but I've lost count of the times I've read it, I have an old - now falling to pieces hardback copy. Probably classed as homosexually explicit now as there are few women involved and 3 boys on a desert Island - B*LL*X! Much as I have enjoyed the JK rowling books I don't think they will ever fit in to the Classic mould. I always found extrapolations like the one which spawned this thread are better if they are beleivable, or make a logical jump even the good Lord Denning in his day would never have made this one. A X |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: katlaughing Date: 01 May 03 - 03:58 AM Kewl find, Nicole! we used to make weekly trips to the library, too. I am pleased to say my daughter is doing the same with my twin grandsons.:-) Well...it wasn't a huge home library, but both of my parents came from a long tradition of such. My maternal grandfather had the first lending library of any kind in the town where both fo my parents were born and raised in CO. I still have some of his books with his rubber stamped imprint in the front with his name, etc. Let's see...first book I remember has to be my grandma and I reading Goldilocks together, then her reading to me from her copy of How to tell stories to children which stories she'd used as a teacher. She later gave me her copy. I also remember poetry books of James Whitcomb Riley. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: NicoleC Date: 01 May 03 - 01:30 AM Home library? I just had the public one. The first day I distinctly remember looking forward to was my 5th birthday -- which was the age the library let me have my OWN library card! Mom faithfully carted me to and from the library once or twice a week, and I always left with a tall stack of books. That stirs up memories! The first book I remember really having an effect on me was called "The Littlest Elephant." I can still remember the story and some of the pictures. I haven't ever been able to find it again, but I just did a google for it and found a "vintage" copy for sale. Which I propmtly purchased :) My friends' baby girl may like it... in another 3 or 4 years. I guess good writers and good stories, like good teachers, never really leave us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: katlaughing Date: 01 May 03 - 01:10 AM Anyone else belong to Junior Great Books as a kid? I only went a few times. Like you, Nicole, I didn't have anyone telling me I was too young for any of it, in fact my parents encouraged us to read anything and everything in our home library and, even more importantly, imo, we read aloud to one another. I really lucked out in teachers, too, as I cannot think of one who ruined a classic for me in this manner, thank goodness! Wouldn't the assignment have been a lot more fun and thought-provoking if they were told to create their own fictionalised version of Enron in their favourite genre...sci-fi, western, etc.?**bg** |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: NicoleC Date: 01 May 03 - 12:52 AM It may be an exercise, but I still think it's a waste of a great book. Many great works of literature were ruined for me by that kind of academic nonsense; "compare, contrast and regurgitate." Since no one told me I wasn't advanced enough to like Homer and Melville and Tolkein at age 8, I thought they were just great adventures. Never fear, they ruined Melville for me by high school. Then there were the "great" books we were forced to appreciate that just plain weren't very good, but someone decided at some point that "Across Five Aprils" was good for our development. It reminds of me of losing the State Forensics Championship because one of the judges didn't like the political leaning of the satire I read, which, ironically, they didn't interpret correctly anyway. Or having a creative writing teacher who gave me C's because the plots of my stories didn't go where she expected. I had several good teachers in high school, but it wasn't until I got to college that I regularly encountered teachers who made learning fun, even while they worked our tails off. I guess I can't really complain about the quality of teachers out there -- I suffer from a complete dearth of ability to teach myself. But it's sad that for this entire class, Dracula has now become a chore instead of a the delightfully dark and inadvertantly campy story that it should be. Sometimes I suspect all the really good teachers are in kindergarten teaching finger painting and sharing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:50 PM Yes; and The Jewel of Seven Stars and The Lady of the Shroud, come to that, but a long time ago. Stoker never repeated his success with Dracula, though the stage play did rather well for him. The Jewel of Seven Stars inspired the original Mummy films, of course, and Ken Russell (I think) made a memorable, if uneven, film of The Lair of the White Worm. The word rubric was certainly used of examination guidelines when I was at school in the '60s, but I don't think I've ever seen that definition in a dictionary. And now, to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt (hardly anyone has so far): The assignment doesn't in any way imply that the teacher actually believes that there is any particular parrallel between Dracula and Enron, or for that matter that the novel is allegorical at all. A lot of knee-jerk assumptions seem to have been made about the teacher, based on very little evidence (and no doubt unhappy memories of school days). Nichole C is, I think, the only person who has made what ought to be the obvious point; that this is most likely an exercise pure and simple, designed to develop the children's skills in analysis and the clear presentation of argument; and without value-judgements attached to it. The subject matter isn't really all that important (though it has the advantage of being a bit different from the usual things) and neither is whether or not anybody agrees with the proposition. The object is to advance a theory and adduce some salient points to back it up, that's all. It's useful if you think that your theory might have some value, but not by any means essential. What matters is how you present it. It may be that the children are a little young for the particular question (but I have very little knowledge of education in the USA); the principle is sound, though. It's just an exercise and, like many exercises that prepare us for later things, may seem useless or perverse to someone who doesn't see the larger picture. I've always thought that it would help to explain the purpose of such things at the time; though it may be felt that that might diminish the educational effect. The sensei in the films never tells his pupil the purpose of an exercise until the lesson is learned, after all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST,Q Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:43 PM Enron, like the phoenix, rises from the ashes. I still think Bram Stoker, if I believed in such things, must be whirling in his grave over that teacher's assignment. He would be the first to say that he wrote it just to make a few pence. Has anyone read his "Lair of the White Worm"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Sorcha Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:09 PM Well, ya know, at least someone loves me enough to help me have children. Pretty sure that is not the case with someone else! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: katlaughing Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:16 PM Naw, Kevin, leeches can be good bloodsuckers, helping to keep wounds clean and the circulation flowing.:-) Enron just stagnates, like a bloated tick; that's it they are disease-ridden ticks! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:05 PM I think comparing these crooked directors to Dracula is much too flattering. Bloodsuckers alright, but more comparable to leeches. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Apr 03 - 06:20 PM Probably too late for a joke about having a "Rubric's Cube" huh? Thought so....... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: katlaughing Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:44 PM No need to rant, Q. I wasn't disagreeing with Kevin, just pointing out what one dictionary, online, had to say for definitions. I'd never heard an outline called a "rubric" before either and yes, "ruberic" does show someone's ignorance, but that is one of the beauties of google, imo, is that a person can enter what they think is the right spelling and google is intuitive enough to find it, bygosh, correct or not!:-) Just was trying to answer Kevin's question as to what was a "ruberic." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST,Q Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:38 PM This is a rant- I mostly agree with McGrath. What dictionary, Kat? It is a poor one if it doesn't classify its definitions. The first category in Merriam Webster's covers two usages, a.An authoritative rule, esp: a rule for conduct of a liturgical service. b. second most common usage- a name, a title, specifically the title of a statute. The second category 2. a. a heading or a part of a book or manuscript done differently from the rest (underlined, colored, etc.). This comes from the first usage, since headings and directions for divine service were usually printed in red. The third- 3. An established rule or custom (The order in the OED is different since it is based more on historical principles). A rubric to designate a man's name is another archaic usage. "Ruberic," if in Google, is just an example of someone's ignorance or mis-spelling (Catspaw's usage excepted!). Rubric for red ochre is archaic (still preserved as the first category in the OED because it is the root- red). There is a verb, rubricate, in print since the 16th century. The example of a "rubric" linked above is part of what we used to call an outline guide, a reminder that helped us to keep thought ordered in an essay. Never heard one called a "rubric." One form of rubricizing that should be punished by summary execution- highlighting of material in books. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: katlaughing Date: 30 Apr 03 - 02:23 PM Kevin, google or the people who input stuff on google have it spelled both ways. In this case, I would take it to mean a guide for students to give them an idea of requirements for structure and content. Here's what the dictionary says: 1. A class or category: "This mission is sometimes discussed under the rubric of 'horizontal escalation' . . . from conventional to nuclear war" (Jack Beatty). 2. A title; a name. 3. A part of a manuscript or book, such as a title, heading, or initial letter, that appears in decorative red lettering or is otherwise distinguished from the rest of the text. 4. A title or heading of a statute or chapter in a code of law. Ecclesiastical A direction in a missal, hymnal, or other liturgical book. 5. An authoritative rule or direction. 6. A short commentary or explanation covering a broad subject. 7. Red ocher. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Apr 03 - 01:46 PM No, that was a "rubric", kat. I think spaw was probably closer to the true sense in this case. (But do people in America really write their essays in that bizarre kind of way? Traditionally "rubric" means a direction for how to carry out a religious service. I'd be inclined to say that the word should be reserved for that.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: stevetheORC Date: 30 Apr 03 - 01:35 PM Why do some people get pleasure out of belittling a young childs homework, suerly they have better things to do?? There again it could be how they get there Jollies!! Gargoyle & guest you have managed to lower yoursels to new depths with your attack on this young girl who is unable to defend herself. Hope that you both feel proud. De Orc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Amos Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:39 AM Sorcha: Well, I guess from all the news on this thread that you got the help you needed with yer bram stoker. Now, I wasn't sure what to tall ya about it, as I don't know who it is that does your bram stoking fer ya, and I was kinda upset to learn you needed help with it. Seems to me a nice lady like you should have no trouble getting their bram taken care of properly. But if'n you got the help you wanted, and your bram is now properly stoked, well, I'm all fer that. If'n it happens again just PM me an' me an' Spaw'll come up. We're both retired bram stokers, y'know, a little rusty, but maybe havin two of us kin make up for it. I hev stoked many a bram in my day an got no complaints aside from a couple of deevorces here an' there...an' I am sure Spaw is equally experienced with a variety of precious brams, so no worries, jus' let us know! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: fiddler Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:42 AM Hi guys, Well I thought it was stupid question and spaw had it right! Any attempt at this is a sterling attempt 'cos it is a load of b*ll*x - the title not the work! Sorch assuming you are not the teacher Is he she it a pretentious pr*at? Or Just a supercillious ....... It is possible he she it is a nice guy or gal or similar but I think the thing all of us have not worked out is Is this a genuine essay serving a purpose if so what purpose we'd like to be enlightened - creative writing is an option. If not where do we go to sort he she or it out or report them to the relevant authorities for fiction abuse! Well Dacula was true stoiry and Enron reads like a work of fiction!!!! Damm good show all round and damm good effort. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:32 AM As I read the paper I was instantly reminded of one of the creative writing classes I had in college. Kate stated her assignment at the top (What does Bram Stoker's novel Dracula have in common with Enron and economic terms?) and it triggered a funny memory. I think there were only about a dozen of us in the class and the Prof was a great guy, very quick and with a good sense of humor. Semester exam rolls around and the "in class" part of the final he wrote on the blackboard. I recall about four questions but it started as three. He copied his first two, whatever they were, and began to write the third, all the while we are making cracks and jokes about what he's writing. The third question was supposed to be "Describe briefly the Berea College Handbook." A wacky-ass question but it could be fun. What was more fun and more interesting though was what turned out to be the third question. He wrote the first word, "describe," on the board and we all made assorted boos and snorts. Then he wrote the second word, "briefly," and several of us piped up with cheers and shouts of, "That's better!" He turned around and with a big grin asked, "Is it?" He turned back to the board and put a period after the briefly. So question number three was "Describe briefly." I don't remember what I amswered but I do remember we all gave Pam Golden the award for the best answer. She wrote, "Briefly is this." I think if I were Kate I might still have been tempted to turn in a paper which said: What does Bram Stoker's novel Dracula have in common with Enron and economic terms? "I have no idea, but here's my report on 'Dracula' so you know I read the book. You can take it from there since I know diddly-squat about economics and this isn't an economics class." The best thing for Kate here is that this one is over!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:28 AM No kat, it's an abbreviation for "rubber dick." A Tumeric Ruberic is a swollen/large rubber dick. Also known as a "Gargoyle Lollipop." Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: katlaughing Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:17 AM Here's an example of one, Kevin: clickety |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:09 AM What on earth is a "ruberic"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 03 - 06:36 AM Gargoyle was spot on |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: DMcG Date: 30 Apr 03 - 05:21 AM What does Bram Stoker's novel Dracula have in common with Enron and economic terms?
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Seamus Kennedy Date: 30 Apr 03 - 01:51 AM Garg, "classe's," "ruberic," taight?" Where the hell did you learn grammar and spelling? Seamus |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST,Dreaded Guest Date: 30 Apr 03 - 01:19 AM Well, Enron's not dead. Lord Wakeham took posession of the Enron remnants for the N.M. Rothschild banking conglomerate, and Enron is still doing water-theft deals in countries like Argentina under various corporate names. The Rothschilds would be the vampire, Dracula, corporations like Enron, etc. their Renfield types used for sucking the lifeblood out of an economy. Been a while since I read the novel, so I wouldn't know about parallels with the characters, but does that make sense? Sounds like my kind of teacher. Could you let me know if that's what the prof had in mind? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:52 AM it would have benefited from more preparation, focus, and editing |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:45 AM It is nice to see you did not write the essay for her. (She deserves to fail on her own merits) In an American high-school, senior-English class, it could rate a C- (if graded on a curve and depending on the classe's ability.) For a university it should immediately place her in two semesters of 001 and 002 ("dumb-bell" English)
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Sorcha Date: 29 Apr 03 - 11:05 PM Bunch of you wanted to read this............. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: MMario Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:32 PM Brava! hugs from over here too! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Sorcha Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:29 PM She used pretty much every comment anybody made that was worthwhile. (Not G's of course) Showed her how much can be done by a small circle of friends! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:25 PM I hope some of this helped her. At least it demonstrated a measure of solidarity, which is always a good thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: stevetheORC Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:22 PM Well done Kate a rather good interpretation hope the daft sod who set it appreciated it. De Orc |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Amos Date: 29 Apr 03 - 03:50 PM Not half bad, Sorcha!! The whole thesis is kind of unreal, but she certainly answered the mail, shows she can think and put what she thinks down on paper. I'd say give the lass a hug for pulling it out of the fire, so to speak; I hope the teacher appreciates what a huge mental contortion he was asking for!! :> ) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Sorcha Date: 29 Apr 03 - 03:42 PM Thanks, fiddler! Considering that she didn't have a clue until yesterday evening after work, I think she did a pretty good job. I think her style could be a bit more formal, but it's not my paper! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: fiddler Date: 29 Apr 03 - 03:22 PM The work |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Sorcha Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:15 PM Well, the paper is written and sent to fiddler for him to put on his website. Fiddler, let me know when it's up and post a link to it. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Hollowfox Date: 29 Apr 03 - 10:53 AM Yeah, I'm curious too. BTW, I see that my Infernal Machine didn't send one of my postings through. Peg, I agree with you on Cliff Notes, Masterplots, and their ilk. The only reason I mentioned it in the above thread was because of the time constraint. Your wicked, wicked librarian, Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 29 Apr 03 - 06:47 AM It'd be interesting to hear the teacher's rationale for this rather bizarre assignment. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: GUEST,Q Date: 28 Apr 03 - 08:37 PM After all this- let us know the outcome and the teacher's comments. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Sorcha Date: 28 Apr 03 - 07:44 PM She is writing the paper tonight and in the morning.......a Big Time Procrastinator. Will let you know........... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sorch needs help w/Bram Stoker From: Amos Date: 28 Apr 03 - 07:31 PM So, Sorch, when are we going to learn the outcome? A |
