How do you choose the lyrics you use?

Subject: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:08 PM

This problem started for me years ago, back in the days when we used to gathered around in the church stairwell, singing along while someone or other pounded on the guitar--invariably, someone would pop up with a verse that no one else knew, or sing slightly different lyrics to the same verse, or drop a favorite last verse of a ballad for a completely unsatisfying one--

Looking up the right lyrics turned out to be a problem right from the start, since, as we have proved over and over again, some folk songs have so many different sets of lyrics that you can't keep track of them, let alone sing them--Even "standards" often have many more verses than people generally know, and long introductions as well. Foreign songs are a double whammy, since, in addtion to the original language lyrics, they often have been translated a few times, with different results, or they have English lyrics that are only marginally related to the original ones--

You've got to sing something--

Do you choose the more complete narrative or the shorter one?

The lyrics to a well known recording, or the ones from the "original source"?

The oldest published version, or the better known revision?

The more colorful dialect version, or the more grammatical, easier to understand one?

The earthy language, or the euphemisms?

The accurate translation, or the top 40 hit?

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: bradfordian
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:14 PM

Perenial problem, welcome to Folk Music

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: MMario
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:16 PM

it depends on the song. Sometimes I choose a different set of verses because another person or group is singing the same song.

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:18 PM

Depends on the context/setting/needs.

~Susan

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:23 PM

I go for the lyrics that are the most 'real' -- usually less polished by commercial renditions, usually older ones, and usually the more complete ones if I know them. But, I don't always know them, so I use the ones I do know.

If you're singing with a group of strangers, obviosuly the common denominator rules, which may be the most popular version.

A

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: Ed.
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:30 PM

The ones you like best...

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 02:40 PM

This arose over the weekend when a friend of mine sang a version of Leadbelly's "Irene" which I have always loathed. I like the Leadbelly version with its straight ahead, confrontational lyric. For me the others are all watered down and prissy - "I see you in my dreams" instead of the euphemism free "I get you in my dreams". My mother, who I always thought had appalling taste, never thought that there was any difference between prettiness and beauty. I have never believed that was necessarily true - and I'll take the stark, ugly beauty of Leadbelly any time over those sanitised (for me emotionally dishonest) versions of his songs. I'll always choose the version which I think sounds honest and unadorned.

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:07 PM

I try to research to the oldest set of lyrics I can find. Not necessarily to use them, but so I know where the beginning is. I think understanding the "history" of the lyrics helps me connect with the song better.

If I am singing a song in a traditional manner, I go for the older lyrics, if possible (I like singing lyrics that have been around a while- makes me feel connected to the past). Often there are 10 or more verses, and I need to choose 6 or 7 for the sake of keeping my audience's attention, not pissing off my bandmates,and making the song more cohesive (I usually sing in a band). When you look at the 10 or so verses, often there are 3 or more ideas, or story lines, being presented. I try to create one coherent story line by choosing my verses appropriately. I have recently had to do this on four songs... Green Fields of Americay, Spanish Lady, Spancil Hill, and Bonnie Boy. I figure the choice of which verses to use is my perogative and the song interpretor.

Hope this is helpful as you decide your best route,

Claire

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:38 PM

Well, the internet has made it much easier to compile songs. In an afternoon I can usually download a half-dozen variations of a song I want to learn. I usually read through them and "sleep" on it before editing them down to a version I want to do.

Like Claire, I find that being totally "complete" means ten or so verses, and that's usually too long, so I almost always eliminate verses that don't carry the story forward significantly.   And, as Claire also states, sometimes there are conflicting plot elements. If there is a valid history to the song I try to hew to the original facts.

Of course, there is also the matter of language. Colorful imagery also makes a memorable song, so some verses make it in the final version just because of that.

I'm sure this kind of collecting and editing sounds offensive to purists, but to my mind it's just this era's high tech condensation of the folk process.

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:55 PM

Oops, got interupted - I'm at work - and didn't include the example I meant to in my post above, about editing to the original story.

Recently, after having heard versions for 30 years, I decided to learn Poor Ellen Smith - nominally a bluegrass song. With the aid of the internet I was able to find that it was a gallows song - written by the accused murderer the night before he hung. Most of the modern bluegrass versions have the guy going to prison and getting out to put flowers on poor Ellen's grave.

The original verses, supposedly written in 1890, were quite long and, to my mind, overly sentimental. They also didn't scan well with the standard bluegrass melody. With a bit of editing I was able to piece together verses that succinctly laid out the plot according to historical record, kept some of the colorful lines, and implied that the guy was going to hang - all in about the same number of verses as the standard bluegrass version.

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 06:00 PM

Try singing shanties instead.
They are absolute and allow for no variants. (huge grin)

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: Ely
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 06:12 PM

I take it one song at a time. Some songs are great in their original form, some have benefitted from repeated performances and "paring down". I learned the lyrics to "Wildwood Flower" wrong years ago and, although I keep the originals on hand because I'm a compulsive collector, I don't sing them that way because my version is more concise (the lyrics were never the strong point of that song, anyway). I've got all the words to the full version of "Engine 143" but the Carter version is MUCH less tedious and still gets the point across. Whatever works.

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 08:40 PM

I thought the original was ELAINE Smith?

I'm with alanabit.

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: Padre
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 08:47 PM

I can give one concrete example. The song 'Wind and Rain' whcih is an American version of 'The Two Sisters' has a lovely tune. But the story begins 'in the middle' with two sisters walking along, when one pushes the other one in the water to drown. In the 'original,' the singer tells something of the rationale behind the action: the sisters both love the same man, who has given the younger sister a 'gay gold ring,' while giveng the elder sister 'not a single thing.'.

When I sing the song, I begin with verses from another version of the song which add the background of the jealousy. [Also, it makes the song a little longer] It still has the refrains, 'O, the wind and rain,' and 'O the dreadful wind and rain. I do leave out the verse about the elder sister going 'over the seas, and there she was eaten by wild savagees.'

Padre

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: GUEST,Sooz(at work)
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:24 AM

I choose the lyrics I stand the best chance of remembering!

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: GUEST,Chippinder
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:35 AM

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: GUEST,Chippinder
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:36 AM

Sorry - I keep doing that!

I'd say you choose the words that you feel most comfortable with and/or your potential audience(s) will appreciate most. Then of course sometimes the words choose you. How often have you found yourself knowing a whole song which has just seeped into your subconscious?

Chips

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:43 AM

As a current example in my own life, I will drop a verse that doesn't seem to "belong".

The current example, in Pretty Saro, which I love, I omit the floating verse about wishing he was a little bird so he could fly to his true love's window, and so forth.

First, it's a widely known floating verse, and seems to me to stick out as such like a sore thumb.

Second, all the rest of the song is sort of real-world, and the little bird verse steps aside from the realism, so to speak. Frankly, it seems kind of hokey.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: How do you choose the lyrics you use?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 11:17 AM

Kendall - not sure about "Elaine" - will have to check my notes. Ellen trips more lightly off the tongue, however :)!