BS: Gated Communities

Subject: Gated Welfare Communities
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:40 PM

Heard on NPR...Honest!   Black activists are proposing that welfare recipients dwelling in publicly assisted "Housing Projects" be afforded the same protection as their working, tax-paying counterparts by spending lots more tax dollars to erect fences and gates around their abodes to "protect them from the trash that eats away at society". And to protect them from the whores and crack dealers that live within their own communities. This may have some merit, come to think about it. This is too good not to comment on.

Subject: RE: Gated Communities
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:48 PM

Ya... but not so good that it doesn't belong in the BS category...

For an interesting look into 'Corporate Sponsored Burbclaves', read Snow Crash by Neil Stephenson...

"welfare recipients dwelling in publicly assisted "Housing Projects" be afforded the same protection as their working, tax-paying counterparts by spending lots more tax dollars"

All men ( people) are created equally.. ever heard that?

Subject: RE: Gated Communities
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:51 PM

Then they should be taxed equally...

Subject: RE: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 05 May 03 - 03:07 PM

EJ:

That's equal in their humanity, equal in status before the law (in theory), but not necesarily equal in height, weight or wealth.

A reasonably well-off person can live off 50% of his/her income much easier than a poor person.

Clint Keller

Subject: RE: Gated Communities
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 May 03 - 03:08 PM

You're right. But the poorest are taxed at a higher rate than the folks who live in the gated communities. The poor can't afford the loopholes.

Subject: RE: Gated Communities
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 May 03 - 04:02 PM

Those are painfully transparent "fences and gates"--that will probably serve to keep people inside more than to keep outsiders from coming in. Prison, decided upon in the court of public opinion?

Subject: RE: Gated Communities
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 03 - 04:55 PM

EJ is trolling, folks...see his comments in the Whites only prom thread

Subject: RE: Gated Communities
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:00 PM

In the USA the poor generally pay a disproportionately high amount of taxes for various reasons. Among the resaons are:

• They pay a greater proportion of their income than wealthy people do for sales taxes, payroll taxes (FICA and Medicare), and excise taxes.

• They are more likely to be renters rather than homeowners, and thus can deduct neither mortgage interest nor property taxes from their taxable income. Their landlords, on the other, avail themselves of those deductions, even though they pass those expenses onto their tenants in the form of increased rent.

• They are less likely to file for refunds of overpayments taxes withheld. Furthermore, they are more likely to fail to claim credits, deductions, and exemptions to which they are entitled.

• They spend a greater prprtion of their income on state lotteries, an insiduous form of taxation that acts to redistribute wealth in the wrong direction.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:03 PM

No trolling intended, mam, just stating the facts. But if trolling is what I intended...there are plenty of wide-mouthed guppies out there in radioland to snap at the bait. Have fun in your pitiful attempts at one-up-manship. OK, OK, I give up. EJ siging out.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,Trolling for Columbine
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:39 PM

kat's 'pitiful' attempts at whatever are obviously effective though. I'm sure she's read your wonderfully diverse history here, as I have. Just a bunch of arch-conservative cliches (your father "The COLONEL"??!!) over and over again.

I suspect this one is simply having a bit of juvenile 'fun'. He's a little too articulate to be so provincial. Were he real, he'd hardly stop by here for friendship.

TC

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: Burke
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:44 PM

I'm kind of a stickler for trying to get the facts before forming an opinion.

I heard a story on NPR about security in public housing. But I couldn't find it & what little I remembered didn't sound like the same thing that EJ heard at all, so I did a google search.

This article pretty well covers the story I remember hearing. It even mentions the gated community bit, but by an Attorney General, not black activists. The laws aren't new either.

EJ, if you heard something different maybe you can go to NPR and point it out to us. A link to any other reputable news source with your facts will do as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: mack/misophist
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:56 PM

I happen to know a couple of 'poor' people who live in gated project housing. Most of the time, they're 100% in favour of it. The poor are the easiest targets for thieves and need more protection.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:59 PM

Ha! Here we go again. The big "Lie". The big *disrtaction".

Public assistance programs for the poor are nuthin' compared to the public assistence for the rich. Yet all we hear about is the "welfare Cadillac". Yeah right. The biggest friggin' lie that whitely ever told! And keepsd tellin' it. To his kids and their kids. To anyone who will listen down at Joes Bar and Grill. The big "Lie".

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Grandma and Grandpa are rakin' in billions of your tax dollars, and for what? No a danged thing other than the fact that they were born into the priviledged class.

Yeah, they have PR firms that spout offf this psycho=paplum fir the less intellectually blessed who repeat it like parrots unitil the bif friggin "Lie" become the, ahhhhhhhh, forgive me, the "truth"... of all things ??????????????????????????????.............

You want "gated communities" (and compounds....) don't look at the poor folk. No, take a look at Bush and Cheney's buddies...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: EJ
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:38 AM

Burke...I heard the article this past Saturday about 2:00 pm or so while I was on the road. I don't remember the name of the show. You can do the footwork. This time I am really signing out.

EJ

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:55 AM

I must say that there is an astounding amount of stereo-typing going on here. There is also a lot of misinformation. The most heavily taxed are the lower middle working class. They also get the least for the tax dollar paid. Also, many people are well off because they work very hard and are bloody tired of being told they are a privledged class.
   And , Bobbert, I think your are bordering on racisim, not to mention, misinformation. "Whitey" ? Wow, what open minds we have here.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,hotdog
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:07 AM

This reminds me of some of the "gated communities" that I have seen throughout the middle east. They use barbed wire and concertina wire to "protect" the inhabitants. Is this what you have in mind for the welfare dwellers?

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,Yo' Daddy
Date: 06 May 03 - 10:08 AM

Gated Communities are exactly what is needed in sewers that exist in the Watts area and the Barrios here in LA. Bring on the fences to keep these rats where they belong. I love LA but I haven't felt safe in many years and rarely go anywhere unarmed. Hell, I never go anywhere unarmed. More is the pity. I am sure money can be raised throughout the honest communities of this once great metro for barbed and concertina wire.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 03 - 01:40 PM

minefields and barbed wire would be good too.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 May 03 - 02:32 PM

Great idea- like the gated communities the U.S herded Japanese Americans into- or better yet gated communities like Birkenau.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,Yo' Daddy
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:13 PM

The idea IS to try and stop or slow down the sale of drugs to people who cannot afford them. Don't jump to other subjects. There is no relation here to prisons or concentration camps. Stick to the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:40 PM

If they can't afford them, the sale's probably slowed down already.
The monetary value of drugs sold to "Yuppies" and spoiled rich kids far exceeds that sold to the poor, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,Yo' Daddy
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:50 PM

Greg F...excellent point.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 May 03 - 08:17 PM

The ultimate gated community? I have some friends who bought into a gated compound on the Mexican west coast. After a walk, they saw two men getting inside their house. They alerted the guards, who caught the men and took them away. Shortly afterward, they heard shots. The bodies were found just outside of the compound's wall. The police called the killings the result of a drug rivalry.
They sold as quickly as they could and left Mexico. They are still traumatized by the occurrence. It will affect the rest of their lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: DougR
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:04 AM

Why is it automatically assumed that a poster is trolling if the poster writes a message that is not agreement with others in the Mudcat community, kat? EJ may not present popular views, but at least he/she identifies him/herself as a person! EJ could stand for lots of things: Easy Jesuit; Earl Jessop; Earline Jessimine; Ernestine Josepholiphitis; Ervin Justice; who knows? At least he/she attaches some initials to identifies him/herself.

Actually, I think gated communities are pretty cool. I wish I could afford to live in one.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,NewEnglander
Date: 07 May 03 - 10:12 AM

I happened upon this site and am glad to see a place to express views with having to go to chat rooms. I live in a gated community in New England and feel completely safe. Guests and service providers (even the mail carrier is screen daily) have to be cleared through the guard stand before entrance. This is usually done by phone or intercom. Even the residents are cleared upon arrival. I do feel safe here. We have no undesirables strolling the streets, no strange cars, no breakins or crime. New residents are thoroughly screened before they can live here which I do appreciate. This does help keep out undesirables and those who do not fit in with our chosen lifestyle. I am not in favor of gating and confining those persons living in poor housing projects. Their economic situations keep them restricted enough. It would really do them an injustice to fence them in.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:58 AM

My house has a fence around it with a gate. Does that count? (never mind that the house is 80 years old with saggy floors and no heat and no air and the gate didn't keep the burglars out 10 years ago)

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:01 PM

As long as it keeps you in and protects your neighbors, it's okay, just kidding. No heat?

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: MMario
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:03 PM

my skin crawls at the thought of living in a gated community - of any kind. Even going to college on a (vehicle)restricted campus bugged the heck out of me;

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: Kim C
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:35 PM

Heric, that's probably more true than you realize. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,Blake
Date: 23 Mar 04 - 11:33 PM

I don't know how to say it, but looking at your guys conversation for the past couple days, you guys scare the shit out of me, how or why would you ever want to live in a gated community, do you really believe that they work, do you guys think that criminals don't brake into this "Compounds". Gated communities are there for one basic reason, to keep middle wage white people feeling safe. " no drugies in these compounds" "no crime here". I live in a type of gated community, and there is shit that happens, my mail was stolen, two cars have been broken into, the only difference is that it "could" be some one who live here. I think this gated community this is a stupid american idea.

Blake

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 01:32 PM

"...conversation for the past couple days..." You mean past couple of days back in 2003?
....................

I grew in a variation on this gated community idea which worked very well. It was in a part of London where tye developer back in Victorian times had designed the place so that the streets of high terraced houses had a large common garden at the back, shared with the houses on the next street over. So the front was an ordinary street, open to the world, and at the back a large shared garden which was locked.

It wasn't done that way to stop burgaries and all that so much, but rather so that children from the various houses could play out together in safety from traffic and so on. Over time the houses had become divided up into flats, and it was avery mixed community.

It always struck me as an excellent model of urban development, and I'm surprised it isn't a lot more common.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 05:05 PM

i live in a gated community, an inner city housing co-operative for artists. our property is 8 units on one side, 3 on the other, a common studio in the middle, a common laundry, and a large common back yard for all the common people and common cats!

it works!

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 09:55 PM

There ain't no such animal as a common cat.

All cats are noble. I know this, my cats told me so.

Peter

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 10:27 PM

p.s. some people think its a good thing i get locked up at night!

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:08 AM

Are they what we call prisons??

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:10 AM

nup.

Subject: RE: BS: Gated Communities
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:15 AM

here's some info about co-operative housing.

http://www.arch.asn.au/history.html