BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?

Subject: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 07 May 03 - 09:15 PM

i think he's a hero for democracy, freedom of speech, enemy of hypocrisy.

He's just been suspended from the new Labour Partly

what think you?

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Teribus
Date: 08 May 03 - 01:59 AM

This is the same guy who was instrumental, as one of the guiding lights in arranging the "twinning" of Dundee and Nabulus. When invited over for the twinning ceremony the civic leaders of Dundee's Labour Corporation presented the leader of the Palestinian Delegation from Nabulus with a kilt and a bottle of whisky - Now exactly what the recipient of those gifts thought would be well worth recording, being as he was a legless (literally), moslem cleric.

His nicknames (George Galloway's) in Scotland are "Gorgeous George", or "Champagne George" - The Scottish Labour Party, particularly in Glasgow, is renown for it's corruption and cronyism. To earn such nicknames in such an environment says a great deal about the man.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 08 May 03 - 03:05 AM

Like most folks, I don't know enough about what went on in Iraq between Mr Galloway and Iraqi officials. One thing I do know---even if he did accept cash payments for whatever from the regime, his alleged lies about it aren't nearly as bad as the gawd-awful deceptions and scene-shifting perpetrated by Tony Blair and Jack Straw which resulted in British participation in the recent power trip.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 08 May 03 - 05:10 AM

There's a good article in today's Guardian by Ron Greenslade comparing today's treatment of George Galloway in the Press to that received by Arthur Scargill.

Jim McLean

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,Seacat.
Date: 08 May 03 - 05:42 AM

It is unwise to judge a person with the gutter press as his/her
prosecutor even the Grauniad takes sides.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Gareth
Date: 08 May 03 - 05:56 AM

No hero at all, his career has been punctuated with accusations of financial misfeasence.

He has not been gagged, he has not been deprived of his seat in parliament.

He has been suspnded from active membership of the Labour Party whilst his conduct is being investigated. Some people seem to forget that membership of an organisation has responsibilities as well as privaleges.

If, as a member of the Iraqui Parliament, Mr Galloway had critisiced Saddam Hussain in the same way he would have been suspended, by the neck.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 08 May 03 - 06:36 AM

I found it very disturbing seeing him toady to Saddam Hussein in one of his visits, as I did watching Tony Ben not asking any pertinent questions of the murderous bastard.
As to the money issue, who knows, but it seems a rather stupid thing to do for a man who's obviously got a brain, despite his dodgy moral compass.

All the best PP

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 May 03 - 06:58 AM

How many pertinent questions did Thatcher ask Pinochet when she invited this tyrant to the UK. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Gareth
Date: 08 May 03 - 07:04 AM

"How many pertinent questions did Thatcher ask Pinochet when she invited this tyrant to the UK"

And what has that got to do with the behaviour of George Galloway ???

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 08 May 03 - 08:11 AM

Not a hero for democracy, but one who uses democratic freedoms to undermine them.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 May 03 - 08:22 AM

Gareth, its the hypocrisy of our western leaders, am I registering?. Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Teribus
Date: 08 May 03 - 08:23 AM

Guest Boab:

Following lifted from an article on your hero:

"Complaints had been received about an interview Mr Galloway did on March 28 to Abu Dhabi TV in which he "seemingly invited other Arab nations to fight against the British Army", according to party officials."

Now Gorgeous George sits as Member of Parliament for Glasgow Kelvin, quite a large contingent of the British Forces currently in Iraq are Royal Scots Dragoon Guards (Scots Greys) and the Black Watch - I wonder if the parents, relatives, wives and children of those men would agree with you regarding GG, if the above is in fact true. A British Member of Parliament inciting foreign nationals to kill British troops - complete and utter f*ckwit certainly, maybe even traitorous, but not as Mr.Happy suggests, "a hero for democracy, freedom of speech, enemy of hypocrisy." - Not by a bloody long shot.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 May 03 - 08:26 AM

And Gareth, not forgetting Rumsfeld when he licked up Saddam during the Iraq-Iran war, and as the man says, theres more. Ard Macha.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Gareth
Date: 08 May 03 - 09:38 AM

Nothing hypocritical with Thatcher not questioning Pinochet, after all they were two very nasty specimins.

Are you suggesting that George Galloway is also a hypocrite ?, if so I must concur.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: pict
Date: 08 May 03 - 09:38 AM

George is professional politician he's just as greasy as the rest just in different ways.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 08 May 03 - 10:41 AM

So from your high beach, two wrongs make a wright?
PP

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 08 May 03 - 01:42 PM

Good 'old' George.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 08 May 03 - 01:52 PM

I was just thinking that If Bush and Blair had listened to what the UN was saying then we wouldn't of had the war in Iraq and all those soldiers would never had died.
So Geroge Galloway didn't kill them, Bush and Blair did by starting the war.

Anyway I'm not going to argue I have said my peice and I'm all for George.
Demrocracy forever.
So don't answer this please.
Just I agree to disagree.
And If I have upset anyone then I'm sorry but we are all entiltled to our opinions, I don't agree with some and agree with others.
Tom

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 May 03 - 02:50 PM

George "Monster Ego" Galloway, is sitting in one of the safest Labour sets in the UK, that is the reason for his arrogance, and the Labour party's panic.
I must say it's nice to know that at least his predicament has managed to bring the name Maggie Thatcher back into a Mudcat thread!!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 08 May 03 - 05:40 PM

I think he's a freeloading wide-boy. If he was MP for Peckham they'd have a hard time choosing between "Del Boy" & "Plonker" for a nickname...

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 May 03 - 06:11 PM

George G taking Saddam's money in an underhand way seems unlikely..I suspect dirty tricks. but the thought of someone safe in Scotland voluntarily deciding to kiss Saddam's arse so publicly and consistently is nauseating. the poor people of Iraq had no choice...Galloway did. Definitely no place for him in the Labour party, which may not stand for much these days but it still has some minmal standards.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 03 - 06:50 PM

He should be hung from the Forth bridge with his own kilt.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Gareth
Date: 08 May 03 - 07:11 PM

Well Greg, yes, in the Labour Party we do have some standards, some of us are fighting to maintain them.

On the other hand if, and George Galloway says he did not take any money, from the regime, I have yet to hear of any other coherent explanation as to why he acted as the Honarable Member for Baghdad Central.

Interestingly here in South Wales, during our recent Assembly Elections, I had Galloway's alleged coments thrown at me by relatives of servicemen on the doorstep. Other canvasers had similar experiences.

Gareth

Gareth.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: pict
Date: 09 May 03 - 06:44 AM

Pied piper if you are referring to my post I should point out that I have always been anti-war and I'm not stating that I believe the recent allegations against Galloway.What I do believe is that George is not a squeaky clean,good hearted socialist who would never get involved in dirty dealings.I think that he is an untrustworthy and self serving individual as do many others and although he may be innocent of these present charges he knew that his actions would draw fire from the party and sympathy from the anti-war crew.I think Georgey porgy is of the mind that no publicity is bad publicity.If you fly wi' the craws,you get shot wi' the craws.He's as wide as the Clyde and just as full of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 10 May 03 - 02:43 AM

"My Hero", Teribus? Where the hell did that line drop from?? I trust that you do not read the gutter-press as casually as you appear to have read my posting---for that would seem to explain your acceptance of the pish tosh and piffle that has been flying around for the duration of the recent maneuverings. Galloway may well be guilty of some of the actions of which he stands accused; that most certainly does NOT make him "my hero". I simply pointed out that he'd have to go well beyond that of which he is accused before he sank to the depths of those who spread the lies which put so many in peril---innocent Iraqis, and combatants on all sides of the conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Hillheader
Date: 10 May 03 - 03:05 AM

As a resident of George's constituency, I would prefer to hear him speak on local issues rather than international issues. Can anyone recall him evere speaking on a local (or even Scottish) issue? He should remember who appointed him and who pays him. I do not know if the documents found in Iraq are genuine, but the damage has been done in the wider (beyond Glasgow)public perception.

His suspension is simply a device to present him being selected for another constituency when the Glasgow Kelvin seat disappears by the next election. The selection process takes place later this year and if he is still under suspension, he is technically not within the party and thus cannot be considered. I do not agree with George Galloway on Saddam (his "indefatigability"), but the Labour party has always been a broad church and should be able to accomodate this views.

He went too far however by encouraging all Arabs to fight British soldiers - some of whom were no doubt his own constituents - and this more than anything else has alienated him locally. At a time when two British muslims were already planning suicide bombings in Israel, this was a comment to far.

His real "crime" however was critising Tony and for that alone Laour will get rid of him. If George were to stand under the official Labour banner, he would still be re-elected. Labour could (and probably have metaphorically) offered monkeys as candidates in Glasgow and had them returned as MP's. If forced to stand as an Independant, he will have no chance.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 10 May 03 - 03:16 AM

Well, it seems like George is about to crash and burn, whether he is guilty or not. Maybe George had a wee bit of extra cash coming in from Iraq, but how many of our other MPs are getting grease from countries like Israel?

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 May 03 - 05:25 AM

Well said Davebhoy, the definitive answer I think!!
Slainthe.....Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Mugwump
Date: 10 May 03 - 06:54 PM

The bastard's Scotch! - 'nuf said.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: pict
Date: 10 May 03 - 06:56 PM

Hilarious.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Gareth
Date: 10 May 03 - 07:08 PM

A true story - tho' edited out of Hansard, and related in the pub last night, by me local MP.

Jack Straw (HM Foriegn Secretary) ".... There are some difficulties in acepting the surrender of Saddams regime, we do not have anybody to negotiate with, nobody who can speak for them"

Out cry from all parts of the House of Commons " George Galloway "

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Hillheader
Date: 11 May 03 - 11:52 AM

Misery

Many of the BRITISH service personnel in Iraq are Scottish (not Scotch - that applies to whisky tomatoes and eggs)and some of them died. Their relatives would be heartened to hear them being considered the same of George Galloway.

Gareth

I think that emphasises my point. Everyone thinks George speaks for Saddam - I would like to hear him speak for his constituents.

Davebhoy

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 May 03 - 01:21 PM

If misery loves company, does that mean that the company loves misery?? Discuss.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 08:55 PM

Subject: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Mr Happy - PM
Date: 07 May 03 - 09:15 PM

i think he's a hero for democracy, freedom of speech, enemy of hypocrisy.

He's just been suspended from the new Labour Partly

what think you?

He's recently been vindicated in court- What think you now?

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 03:59 AM

Well, I have never understood the fellow. I could readily understand anyone expressing slobbering adulation for Saddam Hussein if paid to(or if forced to,like the poor inhabitants of Iraq). Quite what George Galloway's reasons were is a subject I find very difficult to get my head round.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 05:22 AM

Some say that GG is infatuated with himself, but that's not true. Infatuation is just a passing fancy, and with George it's the real thing, he's in love with himself. I didn't think that the story was true it was just too convenient for words finding that documentary evidence, I smell the British secret service's hand in that. However what hasn't changed is the fact that GG is a plonker, and was a liability as a constituency MP, the people of the Kelvin area are well rid of him. As for being 'vindicated' in court, I think you'll find he won a libel case and in no way was he exonerated from his sycophancy toward Saddam, or his incitement of British soldiers to mutiny. At least this will mean the end of GG as a public figure, and he will now sink into the obscurity he so richly deserves.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:06 PM

Regardless of his relationship with the Saddam regime , George was not smeared because of any ties, imagined or other wise,to the Iraqi government.

He was smeared by our glorious "democratic " government and media, because of his stance as a leader of the anti-war movement.
A war that most intelligent people knew right from the beginning,would end in the disaster we now see.

I dont wish to comment on Georges' motives or character, as I have no way of determining them, but I know that any victoy for George is a victory for us all ,against the war mongerings bastards who rule us, and massacre the innocents in our name....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:26 PM

I disagree, Ake. GG has, in my opinion, always been one of the most vainglorious & self-serving of politicians we've had to suffer. I reckon he would speak in favour of Jack The Ripper, Fred West, & Peter Sutcliffe, if he thought it would buy him a vote!

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:43 PM

Raedwulf..Good to hear from you.

All politicians are by nature self serving, and I doubt George is any exception.
But he is a very sharp thorn in flesh of "new labour",and as such will have my support.
I long ago lost any naive notions about sincere politicians.

Sincerity and plain speaking are looked upon as a severe handicap by todays politicians of all shades.

"Giok" forecasts Georges' imminent political demise, but I dont think that will be the case as George will attempt to give a voice to the UKs large Muslin community ensuring his ability to inflict maximun pain on crusader Tony.

Whether this will be good for race relations in UK remains to be seen

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:25 PM

Galloway has constantly been hammered (eg "slobbering adulation")for that quote, spoken to Saddam "I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability." He has always said that "your" there referred not to Saddam but to the Iraqi people. Given the way the English language works, that is a perfectly consistent way of interpreting those words. And I'd think it's also much more in line with the way politicians do generally go on.

Of course, if only we still used a separate second person singular, that kind of ambiguity wouldn't arise. The pity is that apparently Galloway wasn't speaking Arabic at the time, because I gather, Arabic does retain that distinction.

Clearly George Galloway is an arrogant man, with an enormous admiration for himself, but then that's pretty standard for Alpha Male politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: cptsnapper
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 05:03 AM

It probably seems to be trivial but considering the comments made by some people about the nuances of language & how it's used I'm rather saddened by the sloppy spelling & use of punctuation marks seen in this debate.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 07:29 AM

Mr Happy you're outvoted. There seems to be a bit of a general consensus that the gentleman in question is something of a dirty dog.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 05:24 PM

Dont agree wld,

Im just not prepared to bet he'll win Crufts Supreme Champion...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Dec 04 - 11:02 PM

what you don't admit that the vast majority of people posting seem to be expressing the opinion he's a bit of a plonker. Its just arithmetic.

i've never met the guy. hold no animosity to him. But I think I'd hesitate to lend him anything - somebody with this number of enemies got them somehow.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 10:06 AM

wld...A very good way to collect a large number of enemies, is to "noise up" the establishment.

Galloway must be an ally of all who see the system for what it is.

Personally I suppose he's a raging ego-maniac, but who cares as long as he gives the new labour machine plenty of grief...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:10 PM

There's a tendency to believe what we are told when we are told it often enough and loud enough.

I'm rather reminded of the way our leaders have made so much of the idea that they weren't naive to believe in the WMDs, because "everyone else" agreed they were there. (Believing what they had been told by the guys with the biggest "intelligence" operation on the planet, who clearly had to know what they were talking about so confidently...)

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:22 AM

He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:57 PM

Well....As the Editor of The Telegraph says,   "Always look on the bright side of life"

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:02 PM

And George certainly doesn't rank as highly as most politicians...

Especially The Blessed Tony...

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:39 PM

McGrath seems to think I was a bit over the top, using the term "slobbering adulation" for Galloway's attitude to Saddam Hussein. This is apparently he because he claims one of his remarks popularyly supposed to be addressed to Saddam Hussein was in fact addressed to the Iraqi people. Well, maybe, though George Galloway was staring at Saddam at the time, with the expresssion of Lady Di fluttering at a TV camera. But actually, I was not thinking of that one remark. I have spent the last five years in close company with a wide variety of Iraqi refugees, all of whom left Iraq due to Saddam's activities. So I have had a lot of time to consider the nuances of Iraqi politics, and heard a lot about it from all angles. Anfd I have a naturally enquiring mind, so I have read a lot about the subject, so have therfore heard a great deal about the activities of the saintly socialist Mr Galloway.
    I'm a great admirer of McGrath from Harlow, so I will, therefore, tihdraw the phrase "slobbering adulation". I will replace it with "George Galloway brown-nosing Saddam Hussein, wetting himself with excitement the while".

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:31 PM

Hi Greg ....What's happened to that famous logic.
If George Galloway hoped to have any influence over the actions of the Saddam regime, these hopes would hardly be realised by spitting in his eye and calling him a murderous despot.
Galloway has an Iraqi wife and Im sure he sympathises with the plight of the Iraqi people.

I take McGraths' view that he was percieved as an easy target by the pro- war press and the slimy Blair government.

Nice to see George jump up and bite them in the balls.

When 100,000 Scots marched through Glasgow against the war, Galloway stood to address them, while the representatives of the "peoples party" went into hiding in the SSEC.

The real "self servers" are those who took personal ambition before common sense....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 03:07 PM

Sorry poor memory, but was GG once an appolgist for the Soviet Empire and very sad when it collapsed?

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 03:32 PM

I suppose if you're really middle class - its all a bit of a game. If the Thatcher years never touched you closing down your local industry and bringing a slew of social problems to your community.

Its all a bit of a laugh. biting Tony Blair on the balls.

Politics are about choices. Most of us who aren't insulated from the cold economic winds that blow are better off than we would be with Michael Howard slyly sorting out a few goodies for his rich pals at every verse ending.

Its the same kind of brainless approach to politics that stopped Callaghan from making any election speeches in 1979, by rentamob shouting him down - and got Thatcher installed. And that was okay, cos it brought the revolution closer....brilliant!

Blair or Howard those are the choices. grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 03:40 PM

If you are asking did I support the Soviet Union, yes I did. Yes, I did support the Soviet Union, and I think the disappearance of the Soviet Union is the biggest catastrophe of my life. If there was a Soviet Union today, we would not be having this conversation about plunging into a new war in the Middle East, and the US would not be rampaging around the globe. (GG in a Guardian interview)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 05:40 PM

Thank you Wolfgang you have revealed GG.

I am with the drummer. We knocked on doors for 20 years and people said no.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 05:56 PM

I don't think having rich pals is a prerogative of the Tories Akenaton. Also the rentamob that shouted Jim Callaghan down were either trade union members, or people paid by trade union organisers to demonstrate. In so doing they sowed fear into the hearts of most Englishmen no matter what class [a designation I despise], thus ensuring that Maggie got elected. So they did sort of bring it on themselves.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 06:44 PM

wld I might take your point if I measured progress and the political health of our society in purely financial terms.
The move towards a two - tier society and a police state, with all the damage to human rights and personal freedom that it will bring, disturbs me just as much as Maggies handywork.

I resent your inference ..."brainless approach to politics", and would contend that anyone who imagines the capitalist system will somehow evolve into a user friendly means of running the world, is living in Disneyland.

I dont consider myself "middle class", as i'v worked by the strength of my arm and the sweat of my brow all my life,and continue to do so, while others sit on their fat arses on early retirement.

The anti war arguement was always one of common sense over ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 08:54 PM

The collapse of the Soviet Union has indeed had some pretty terrible consequences, most especially for many (most?) of the people living there. Poverty, violence, corruption, exploitataion, economic devastation, civil war - and if the nuclear technology falls into the wrong hands, which it easily could, the consequences for us all could indeed be catastrophic.

It is in many ways tragic that there could not have been a successful reform of the USSR along the lines of Gorbachev's dreams of perestroika and glasnost, aimed at turning the country into one with a social democratic system, more analogous to that which has been developed in many parts of Europe.

During the Cold War period, western politicians were always saying how their quarrel with the Soviet Union was because it was a repressive regime. When the Prague Spring took place in Czechoslovakia, and then crushed, it was widely seen as a pity that "Socialism with a Human Face" was aborted by outside agents.

But when Socialism with a Human Face was on the agenda a generation later, the efforts of the West were consistently directed towards destroying it. Any kind of aid or investment or assistance had to be linked towards establishing a predatory capitalist model of society, which in practice meant transferring the wealth of society to robber barions and mafiosi.

Democracy? That wasn't what it was about at all, it was about making money. And that is why China, where they did it the other way round and kept the all-powerful Party and State, but welcomed in the capitalists, have had such an easy ride of it.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:42 AM

When I lived in Richmond Surrey back in the 60s, there was a local pub where there was always fights, and all sorts of trouble. When I asked a local policeman of my acqaintance why they didn't try to get it closed down he said, "At least we know where all the troublemakers are as long as it remains open" This I feel is how the western powers must be feeling about the demise of the Soviet Union.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 10:17 AM

All good stuff from McGrath, starting with the one on 4 Dec (7.25pm) and not excluding the last sentence there.

If Les really thinks the world (or even Russia) is a better place since the collapse of the Soviet republics, he is not living on the same planet as me. Certainly conditions in the former GDR are actually a whole lot worse for many of the population there. As McG has indicated, the communist experiment was carried out in the face of hostility driven by vested capitalist instincts, and any efforts to give socialism the human face its founding fathers had intended were particular feared, on the basis that they just might work.

Greg, I have said many things I would cringe to recall now, never mind having them thrown back at me endlessly via tv screens and newspapers. That New Labour stalwart David Blunkett is no doubt regretting even now some incautious remarks he made about his cabinet colleagues. From 1924 until WW1, and most particularly up to 1932, senior British politicians including Winston Churchill when Chancellor of the Exchequer, paid obeisance to Mussolini in much the same lnaguage as as Galloway used with Saddam.

Sometimes individual judgment may be unsettled by the grandeur of the moment. Remember Kinnock at Sheffield Arena, or that concession-speech scream by Howard Dean? Churchill admitted that no matter how much he resolved not to do so, he always found himself standing up when Stalin came into the room at Potsdam.

Galloway is on record as deeply regretting his huge blunder. Like Ake said, he has an Iraqi wife. And he has spent many years trying to alleviate Iraqi suffering, not least when Iraq was an unfashionable cause, on the receiving end of a vicious and undiscriminating sanctions regime.

The Telegraph behaviour was reprehensible and rightly they are going to pay heavily - about £1,500,000 ($15,000,000,000).

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 11:44 AM

'If Les really thinks the world (or even Russia) is a better place since the collapse of the Soviet republics, he is not living on the same planet as me'

I know it doesn't really matter but I didn't say or imply any such thing.

This thread is about GG who thought the SU was a good thing when almost nobody else did.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 12:16 PM

1.92 dollars to the pound today !
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 12:28 PM

Well, Les, that just demonstrates George's foresight.

I notice a couple of catters have fallen by the wayside since this thread was started. I fear I may be responsible for Gareth's departure (unintentionally - I thought he'd stay to fight his corner or take his lumps), but what has happened to Teribus? I'm pretty sure he's not masquerading under another name, because since July no posts have come close to matching his indefatigable contributions.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 03:24 PM

Hi Peter, Glad to see you joining the small band of Mudcatters giving some support to George....Would have expected as much from you.

I too have been wondering about the late lamented Teribus.

Does anyone know anything about him, or where he's from?

He had an Army bacxkground, is a R. Burns fan, and I am sure he's now living in retirement in Scotland.
I think Greg Stevens holds the key....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 08:52 PM

Glad you're still around, Ake me old comrade. Our paths don't seem to cross much these days. If that's true about Greg, I think he should produce the key and let the old soldier out of his box. Teribus's presence invariably forced me to be just a tad less lazy than I normally tend to be.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 05:01 AM

Certainly conditions in the former GDR are actually a whole lot worse for many of the population there. (Peter K)

Actually that makes me wonder about which planet you live on, Peter.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 05:38 AM

What's controversial about saying that, Wolfgang? There would be nothing inconsistent between saying that and saying, for example, that conditions in East Germany are better for many or even most of the population? All big changes involve losers as well as winners, and not just fat-cat losers.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 06:06 AM

Well setting the exchange rate for the Ostmark at one for one with the Deutchmark after reunification didn't do too much harm to the old East Germany! However a lot of people who worked in unsafe and dangerous chemical factories now closed down, are still looking for work. So as Kevin McGrath says swings and roundabouts.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 02:34 PM

Which bit of Democracy was GG a hero of when he defended all that stuff in the Soviet block?

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 02:43 PM

Teribus had an entire thread dedicated to slagging him and his efforts, shortly before he stopped bothering. I imagine he chose to redirect his energies.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 04:18 PM

Very wise..Commandant of the UKs   harshest "boot camp" springs to mind..

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 05:14 PM

I guess this thread has lost all interest in GG and is now more interested in people who have posted to it, what else need be said?

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 05:26 PM

Agreed.,...A

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 05:33 PM

McG, I've belatedly realised our paths crossed at the Black Lion. I always find these things out too late.

Wolfgang, living standards were unquestionably poor in GDR and of course the state police were grotesquely, brutally intrusive. So it came as something of a surprise for me to discover that people can look back to that era as a time when they had security, and some degree of contentment. Contentment because there was so little rivalry of a materialist nature. If you had a car, it had to be a Trabbie, and that was that. Security because, on the whole, people all had jobs and knew they would continue to have jobs, no matter that some were mickey-mouse jobs by western standards.

Even in Russia now, a sizeable part of the population yearn for the old days, when they all had jobs, there was nothing like the obscene wealth differentials that are pushed under their noses now, and they were not at the mercy of Merc-driving gangsters peddling drugs and vodka. Remember that people wept in their millions at Stalin's death, even though the self-same monster murdered millions of others.

Les, what some people mean by democracy is the sight of light-weight sycomphants like Oonagh King asking ingratiating, planted questions at PMQs, in the hope that it will bring them preferment. I'm delighted Galloway has chosen her constituency to raise his flag, and if he is returned by the democratic process then democracy will indeed have been the winner, and we can look forward to some serious questions being asked of our leaders. If he doesn't win, maybe at least he will take enough votes to let a Tory come through the middle. Anything would be better for democracy than the breathtaking hypocrisy of new Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 06:12 PM

Very well said fionn...and I'm sure Galloway will triumph.

Hes a wily old fox in looks and actions and will have done his homework well.
He will make full use of his popularity among the Muslim voters.

All's fair in love and war.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 07:21 PM

Sure Galloway will triumph and succeed.

By the sound of him, he will succeed in making a good living in the sort of rent a plonker role Tony Benn made his own unique contribution to English politics.

They will dig him out, stick him on Question Time opposite David davies or some other Tory Rotweiler, who REALLY knows how to bite balls. Some one will ask should we have a national holiday for Saddam Husseins birthday to thank him for all these lovely mosques. Should all four year olds be armed with razor sharp bayonets to protect them from parental abuse. Whatever, some totally shit for brains suggestion - George will say definitely. and Davies says this is what the Labour party really want.

This will happen every week for years. Eventually evrybody will believe it, and we will be shafted with another tory administration.

Ake - maybe you wouldn't have had to expend quite as much sweat if this bloody country had been run properly. Think about those Tory years. Bloody millions poured away on a National Curriculum that every teacher in England knew was complete shit. Doctors being pressurised to run their practises like some sort of small business. And all the time money being spirited away from the children and the patients to pay for this crackpot right wing shit.

Sling enough mud at Tony Blair and that's what you've got back.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 07:51 PM

wld....I guess your hearts in the right place, but I really cant be arsed making the case again that New Labour is more of an obstacle to achievment of the kind of society we would like to see, than Howard and his monkeys will ever be.

There is a popular feeling in this country against this government and its contempt for truth and justice, but that feeling will not be translated into support for the Tories, their days are gone, unless they bring out the rascist card.
I think the anger of the people will be shown in direct action and support of minority issues against the system...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 03:59 AM

GG supported the Soviet Union and does not appear to regret it. He has supported Sadam one way or another. That says everything about his judgement and his understanding of or his commitment to democracy.

Most people wanted New Labour, better services, no more tax increases, low unemployment and a bunch of politicians that do not embarras us. We are getting some of this wrong. If we get it wrong enough, as we did with Sunny Jim Callaghan people will through us out as the have every right and responsibility to do.

This is something the people of the old Soviet block or Iraq could not do. GG is a hobby politician but democracy is big enough to unaffected by his games.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 04:57 AM

This is something the people of the old Soviet block or Iraq could not do. Les, I think you'll find that the Soviet people - and democracy - were exactly the reasons the Soviet bloc was brought down. Remember how Yeltzin, sacked as city boss of Moscow by Gorbachev, got himself elected president of Russia? That presidency was a largely defunct sinecure when he went for it, but it gave him a colossal electoral mandate, enabling him to shunt out Gorby, who was to my mind the better guy.

Ake, don't mention the racist card, or new LAbour will grab it as their own!

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 05:43 AM

Ake - the tories are NOT a spent force.

Okay nobody with an IQ above room temperature will vote for this scrofulous, greasy Welsh creep Howard. The last four leaders they have had have varied from the half-witted(Major) to the catatonic(IDS), with the only yorkshire man to look as though he wouldn't eat his chips out of newspaper as light relief. They have only been chosen for their acceptability to the geriatric, racist, anti- europe, homophobic, hat wearing, card carriers.

They have a very credible Prince across the water with Portillo. With him at the helm. They would soon be attracting funds and followers. He is intelligent ,dynamic and persuasive. (the description remind you of anybody?) and he could turn that party round in a trice.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 08:30 AM

and another thing Ake...

don't be jealous of the early retirement brigade. In a way they are the ultimate victims of society. what kind of a society have we with people queeing up to be declared useless. Its like something out of Huxley's Brave New World.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 09:52 AM

If the re-born Portillo led the Tories, that would finish them off. Just like if Ken Clarke had become leader. It is precisely because such people allow one or two decent values to creep into their manifestos that most Tories could never support them. The only time the members themselves had a say, they went for IDS!! Says it all.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:55 PM

There will come a time when the British public is so sick of New Labour that no matter who leads the Tory party, they will be re-elected. After all when NL swept to power 7 years ago you could have stuck a red rosette on a pig and it would have been elected, and a few were! Anyway enough of John Prescott; just remember that not only cream rises to the top, scum does too.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 11:04 AM

wld Once again I take great exception to your comments, Being a geriatric, habitual hat wearing homophobe myself.
I also have a penchant for chips in newspaper especially "The Telegraph, as I cant abide the thought of all those lovely trees sacrificed to no purpose....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,Boris
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 02:01 AM

George Galloway is a nutter. But then so is George Bush. And look where he ended-up!

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 12:50 PM

McGrath,

read also the sentence by Peter before my quote and you will understand what I was responding to. The sentence alone could be read with some phantasy as you do. I have no objection to a statement that not everybody has won. My impression was that Peter was displaying a bit of eastalgia (the German word 'Ostalgie' is ways better to transport the double meaning but you'll get the idea).

it came as something of a surprise for me to discover that people can look back to that era as a time when they had security, and some degree of contentment. Contentment because there was so little rivalry of a materialist nature.... (Peter K)

Peter,

I know you mean it very differently, but that reminds me of West-Germany in the late 1950s. The old people were a bit nostalgic about the past and said how good it was that everybody had work then and how safe the streets were and that immaterial values like honour weremuch more in demand in the previous two decades. However, they never forgot to add "but with the Jews he went a bit too far".

GG to me looks a bit overly nostalgic and we all know that in looking back the times seem more rosey than they actually were.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,Mr Happy
Date: 19 May 05 - 08:39 AM

Here's a link to Gorgeous George's battle with the Telegraph last year.


http://www.legalday.co.uk/lexnex/simkins04/december/simkins031204.htm


Seems their allegations were almost identical to the latest attack from America.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 May 05 - 09:13 AM

I knew I'd heard all this kack before, and thought he'd been aquitted!

Same ol' same ol'.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 May 05 - 08:26 PM

Just been reading this potted bio.


http://www.answers.com/topic/george-galloway

Intrestin' innit?

Sure he's no angel- but I continue to be impressed by his delivery & presentation of views on current issues.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 19 May 05 - 08:34 PM

There's a puzzling bit of info there though, stating his 2nd wife is Palestinian born- not Iraqui -as reported in most other sources.

Anyone know?

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: dianavan
Date: 20 May 05 - 12:25 AM

I don't know if democracy has any heroes but I think Galloway has the kind of nerve it takes to stand up to the U.S. govt. and their bag of dirty tricks. Who else will do it? I'm not saying the guy is shiny clean (what politician is?) but I have to say that I admire anyone who stands up to a bully, especially a bully as big as the U.S.

Now all we need is for someone in the U.S. to do the same.

Galloway makes the Democrats look like a bunch of namby pamby rich boys who will let anybody kick sand in their faces.

Go for it, Galloway - Sock it to 'em.

The biggest sanctions busters were American companies "with the connivance" of the US Government, he argued.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 May 05 - 02:22 PM

Does anyone else here feel, as I do, that we're all spending too much time thinking about WHO to vote for, rather than WHAT?

Honesty and integrity in government seems a good place to start IMHO, and is rather more important than many people seem to think.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 May 05 - 04:38 PM

"Honesty and integrity in government".

Can this be the Don T we know and love?

I think all the argy bargy with Martin Gibson has made you lose your grip on reality Don.

Honesty and integrity have no place in government or opposition.

Now go and lie down in a darkened room and try to think of a new leader who is more of a Tory than Tony...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: mindblaster
Date: 20 May 05 - 06:55 PM

No - just another scotch criminal who wants to rule the world.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 10:21 PM

more here:http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1491405.htm

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Oct 05 - 10:32 PM

Why would they engage in a smear campaign rather than charge him? Thay are basically saying he is guilty without charging him. Either charge him or shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Oct 05 - 01:14 AM

There was an interesting article in The Telegraph" yesterday written by the reporter who found the files (two marked "Britain" and one marked "Britain & France") in the Iraqi Foreign Ministry.

A link was made by Mr. Happy which included the following paragraph:

"The Telegraph's primary defence was that their coverage of the story had been no more than "neutral reportage" of documents discovered by a reporter in the badly damaged Foreign Ministry in Baghdad. However, the judge had no hesitation in concluding that the nature, content and tone of The Telegraph's coverage of the discovery and content of the documents which gave rise to the allegations were no such thing, commenting: "They did not merely adopt the allegations. They embraced them with relish and fervour."

What the Telegraph article stated yesterday was that 'Gorgeous George's' legal team did not challenge the authenticity of the documents, or the circumstances and method by which they were found. Note the documents being talked about are different from the ones used by the New Scientist (I think) which were fake.

Although the findings were against the Telegraph, they did appeal the judgement. Unfortunately for George he has been going around saying that the documents relating to the Telegraph case are fake - he has not been stupid enough to call them forgeries - that will get him into trouble as it admits the documents themselves into evidence.

Regarding the demise of the Soviet Union and the safety of the world. A UN committee just recently has declared as it's findings that despite such instances as Rwanda, Iraq and Darfur we are 40% less likely to have wars and 60% less likely to suffer genocide since the collapse of the Soviet Union - I'd say that that was a pretty significant improvement - the Committee also sited that there are currently 60 ongoing 'wars' in the world today. Average loss of life in wars during the 'Cold War' Soviet era was 37,000 it is now down to about 600 - even taking Rwanda, Iraq and Darfur into account.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Ringer
Date: 26 May 06 - 09:05 AM

Now he says Blair's murder would be justified.   Click Here

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 May 06 - 09:25 AM

There's also a long interview with Paul Simon if you follow that link, which I found very interesting.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 May 06 - 09:26 AM

No Terry!!

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 06 - 09:32 AM

Well I dont believe in Capital punishment, life imprisonment would suffice.......but life would have to mean life.

What hypocrits the politicians are!! How many times have we heard the old story, that Heads of State from countries or regimes which we disapprove of should be "taken out" Fidel..Chavez...anyone who might be a danger to our wonderful economic system.
In the future we will "take out" anyone who interrupts energy supplies to the militarily powerful.

This reminds me of the remarks by Cherie Blair, who famously said that she understood why suicide bombers were driven to do what they do.

As I say I don't believe in the "death penalty" but Blair must be held to account....before he wriggles off the politcal hook..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 May 06 - 10:56 AM

Any takers yet George?, if stuck for a taker , give me a shout.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 May 06 - 01:50 PM

Well, you can see the logic of it. If however you disapprove of the death penalty then neither is justified.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 May 06 - 01:51 PM

Oh, and Sherry Blair's remark about Palestinians was one of the more sensible things she ever said. If you want to stop suicide bombers etc you have to understand them. It was one of the rare times the pillorying she got was unjustified.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 06 - 01:59 PM

Although my objections are deeply held, I may be prepared to suspend them in Blair's case.

The life of one psychologically flawed, burned out politician seems as nothing when set against the deaths of so many children.

Sad thing is that we still torture animals to save the lives of creatures like this...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 06 - 02:04 PM

Cherie's remarks were indeed sensible Richard .
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression regarding them..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 May 06 - 04:38 PM

I just seen these two smarmy smug cess-pools on TV tonight, can any thing be more sickening, Blair and Bush smiling like they were God`s gift to humanity, and the two bastards with the blood of countless thousands on their hands.
What a gift to the human race to see these two wiped out.

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 26 May 06 - 06:04 PM

All three of them, Blair, Bush and Galloway demonstrate the greatest strength of, and the problem with democracy, it's tendancy to produce some very strange results.

Galloway deserves proscution, Blair deserves to have his ineffectual, sanctamonious posturingshoved up his arse shown up for what it is, and Bush deserves many things...

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 May 06 - 06:16 PM

What is the crime for which Galloway merits prosecution? Spending altogether suspiciously too much on his suits is not a ground for conviction (yet).

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 27 May 06 - 02:57 PM

Before the invasion of Iraq Galloway was a leading and elequent anti war opponent.
At that time he was still a Labour member of parliament.
He said that the invasion would be a major war crime and that Bush and Blair would be war criminals.It was a crime and the two should answer to war crimes charges.
Galloway said that the invasion of Iraq would lead to death and destruction on a huge scale and he was right.Operation Shock and Awe was launched by the Americans and the British forces and death rained down on the civilian population of Iraq.They were killed and maimed in their homes and apartments,their markets and their mosques,on their streets and in their clinics.They were killed by cruise missiles,high explosive bombs,uranium shells,the modern equivalent of napalm and sniper fire.
Galloway said that Iraq would be plunged into barbarism and it has been...the sectarian mayhem, the massacres,the malnutrition and the lack of water and electricity in one of the hottest countries in the world
Tens of thousands of Iraqi children are suffering in this appalling Bush and Blair made situation.
Bush and Blair said that the Iraqis had weapons of mass destruction but they lied and thousands have died.Galloway was correct and pointed the finger... and that is why he is hated by the chickenhawks and the war crew.
They have been out to get him ever since but he has taken them on time and time again..and won. He may or may not be a hero but those warmongering critics of his belong in the dock and are not fit to clean his shoes.
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 06 - 03:04 AM

So is he a hero or villan

Subject: RE: BS: George Galloway: A hero for democracy?
From: GUEST,Mr Yellow at Chippenham
Date: 28 May 06 - 06:51 AM

Galloaway & dumb freeze.

who hits the "H" key when aiming for the "Z"? Apart from Sir jOhn?