BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Amos
Date: 17 May 03 - 07:33 PM

Don't forget this person is proceeding to live under false pretenses.

Why not get the turth on the table? As discreetly as possible, using whatever back channels will do it the most smoothly, but, yes.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Blues=Life
Date: 16 May 03 - 11:28 PM

Re: references. We hardly even bother with them anymore. All you can expect is confirmation that the applicant DID have the position they claim they did. NOTHING ELSE! No one gives a bad reference anymore, because you can be held liable for what you say. So much for the truth. So we don't even bother with them unless the person is someone you know (it's a small industry.)
Besides, what applicant gives a reference who's going to bad-mouth them?

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 May 03 - 01:59 PM

Attorney-- VERY good idea, especially now that it seems you have input from all sides and that your own thinking has been somewhat clarified by some venting and so forth.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 16 May 03 - 01:36 PM

Micca,

Just to make sure you understand, no one from the new employer ever contacted our office, our HR, or either me, or my boss for any information on this person. The one person that we believe that they did contacted is in school in another state, and has not been on staff(or even in touch) with us for a long time.

Also, to clarify, people in positions we are talking do not actually deliver services, they are administrators who are not formally regulated, but since they supervise and work with professionals, it is expected that are from the ranks of the professionals.

I am reading and re-reading everything folks have said, and seriously considering every thing that has been posted. Before I go any farther, you have convinced me that I should set everything down and discuss my options and obligations with an attorney.

Micca has pointed out that " you could plead that the significance of the events and the lack of action by superiors has only just become clear to you, but if this person causes injury or damage to someone else, YOU are at least partially to blame."

Well, I am not in a position where I have to plead a case of any sort at this time, and, whatever I do, I don't want to set myself up to be seeming to accept liability.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Micca
Date: 16 May 03 - 06:43 AM

2 cents for what its worth, I have been involved in investigations where safety issues around competence and qualification of staff were involved. Very early questions asked by the investigators when checking liabilty of the employer and the line management of the individual were
" Did you Know?"
"What did you do?"
If the answer to 1 was no, then " why not, you had line manager responsibilty?" if yes see question 2
and to 2,"did you pass the problem upwards, formally or informally, if not why not?" if the answer is "Nothing" you may be found negilgent and in H&S cases find yourself legally liable (under UK H&S law)
You ,as a manger, have to be SEEN to have acted correctly within the guidelines provided by your employer and also by the legislation.
In this case while the person was in your employ you passed it to your line manager , and exonerated yourself, it then became the LMs problem.
But if there is a "system failure" at their new job, because your "company" gave them a "good Reference" (to get rid of them?) I am sorry but you may be liable and your Line manager, for KNOWING the person was a fraud and doing nothing. The sooner you put the record straight the better, you could plead that the significance of the events and the lack of action by superiors has only just become clear to you, but if this person causes injury or damage to someone else, YOU are at least partially to blame.
" For evil to triumph it is only necessary for good men to do Nothing"

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 May 03 - 03:56 AM

Fully understood, Dan. I was representing the U.S. Government, a prospective employer - every day, I had to coax previous employers to tell me about their problems with past employees who had applied for government jobs. Many employers were scared to death of retribution - and I couldn't use the information they gave me unless they agreed to let the applicant see their name and what they said.

It's a two-edged sword. If you do the right thing and tell the truth, you open yourself to liability - but I still think you should do the right thing.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 15 May 03 - 01:41 PM

actually the title isn't misleading, is it. Point remains.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 15 May 03 - 01:39 PM

Joe: The title of the thread is misleading. Incognito DID rat on the liar when the liar was a coworker. Then the cogs kept turning.

The question now is whether incognito should take it upon herself to rat on a person at a different place of employment, outside the chain of command of her own entity.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 May 03 - 10:42 AM

Our local courts just settled a case that somehow kept coming to mind as I've read through this thread.

A couple who have run a small business locally for about 25 years were sued for gross negligence for their hiring of an ex-convict.

They would have lost their business had they lost this case, as there is no way they could have paid the "damages" that were demanded, and probably would have been awarded.

It seems that the ex-con told them he was arrested for assault for defending his sister from some fellow that was trying to beat her.

The case could well have been lost had it not come out in the trial that the caseworker, from whom they requested verification had "failed to respond," – probably in part because she "didn't want to rat on the guy." They never knew that the assault charge was for beating a woman from whom he was trying to steal a car. They also never were informed by the case worker that in addition to being on parole for the assault conviction, he was on probation for hitting another convict with a padlock hooked on the end of a belt, (in prison) resulting in loss of the other convict's eye – because the caseworker "didn't want to rat on him" and lose him the job?

It was also revealed that he had been caught having intercourse with a fellow employee, in a clients home, on the job; but the supervisor who was told about it "didn't want to rat on him," so he just switched the two to different work groups where they wouldn't be together on the job, and never told the owners.

When the guy attempted to rape another employee, he was fired – this being the first indication the owners had that he "had some serious problems." – because nobody wanted to "rat on him."

About 4 days after he was fired, he returned to a clients home where he had worked, gained entry by pretending to be checking on the job, and murdered her.

Sorry. Just keeps popping back to mind. – Nobody wanted to rat on him?????

John

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 15 May 03 - 12:50 AM

MI, believe your gut. Call it in and you will sleep better even if the choice is less comfortable now. Once you have done that, read "The Peter Principle." It explains a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 May 03 - 12:39 AM

Harpy wanted to know how I would answer this question, since I'm a church-going guy and all that.

I worked as an investigator for the U.S. Office of Personnel Management for 25 year, doing background checks on applicants for sensitive jobs. Yes, people do falsify credentials and job experience and about everything that can be falsified (even gender - I nailed an Air Force colonel who took a Civil Service examination on behalf of his wife, and another man who took a test for his girlfriend). I always took a hard line on that sort of dishonesty. I figured that if people were paying for the work of somebody who had such-and-such credentials, then they sure as heck ought to have those credentials. Besides that, I saw lots of very capable people get turned down for jobs - and it seemed totally unfair for them to lose a job to somebody who got it dishonestly.

I wouldn't "rat" on a coworker for some sort of everyday weakness or mistake, or for minor infractions like stopping at the grocery store with a government car - but I sure as heck would turn them in for this sort of basic dishonesty.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 14 May 03 - 07:00 PM

I bet you got a charge out of talking to her husband at the mall to, huh buddy? Come on, admit it! hahaha

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Sam L
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:49 PM

Incog, be sure to log on with your mudcat name, and give yourself advise. Then take it.

It's very fine and says something good that you question your motives in considering doing the right thing. That means if you do the right thing, you don't get to feel good about it. Perfect. Do it. It's not about you feeling good. It's principle, and it does matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:24 PM

...oh come one, MI... Admit I'm right. Are you afraid we'll figure out who you are? I already have! hahahahahaha

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:21 PM

Not even close, Harpy! But you made me laugh, and I do appreciate it! I am going to have to be careful about letting any more out than I have already, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:11 PM

So MI is a male and his friend was a female with whom he had an affair. He used her, she used him. He's angry because she out conned him or made him feel like a fool. Who cares? It's not worth talking about if you don't have any concern for the ethics, sweety. (Have I got it right now?) But I still like ya, in spite of your psychopathy...harpy

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 14 May 03 - 06:03 PM

ha! Jeri - you parallel my thinking. This is a university based public health intitative. That spells public university with training hospital. I think I could draw a PICTURE of incognito's nemesis and incognito may well need her for a reference! (kidding, just kidding.)

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Jeri
Date: 14 May 03 - 05:42 PM

"Circles I move in" = "what goes around, comes around."

I'm coming in a bit late on this, but since you're getting strong opinions for both rat and don't rat, I'd go for the easiest thing too. If she's able to DO the job and the lack of credentials doesn't hurt anyone, ain't no big deal. If she's not able to do the job, then she'll probably lose it. (Unless she works for the government, in which case, they'll promote her.)

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 14 May 03 - 04:10 PM

Sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 May 03 - 03:42 PM

I was referring to this statement: In the circles I move in, I could handle the issue with the right word dropped over a lunch with the right person.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 14 May 03 - 03:37 PM

Oh, okay. It sent me off on a tangent becuase I thought the new employer had contacted the reference and was in possession of potentially misleading information becuase of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 14 May 03 - 03:14 PM

I am not sure what you mean. I was just mentioning that I was told that she used someone who had not been in our office for a long time as a reference, rather than giving the prospective employer either my name or our supervisor's name. Not really an important point, just another thing that seems a bit dishonest.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 14 May 03 - 03:04 PM

To a great degree, you are right, Heric. Maybe I just needed to lay this all out and this was the only safe place to do it.

If Susan will pardon me for a moment, I must say that I almost said something to her along the lines of, well, maybe you are in a small community, but this is life in the big city. Really she is right though, and I have to remember that people and organizations that II work with on one thing today have a tendency to be back with something else tomorrow. And if I do something that is way out of line today, though it may not cost me my job, it can cause me trouble later, and when I least expect it. I have seen it happen often enough.

As for Pat and Kat, I think you read some things in that I didn't actually say.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 14 May 03 - 02:29 PM

Although I don't know why you wrote this:

"For a reference from our office, she apparently had the new employer contact a manager who had taken a leave of absence before her problem came up and so hadn't been told about what happened, and didn't know anything about her job performance."

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 14 May 03 - 02:23 PM

sorry, cross posted without seeing that you had spoken for yourself

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 14 May 03 - 02:21 PM

I don't think it was arrogant. I think she wanted to step in, having felt used, even though she was pretty sure she shouldn't. She wanted a push in favor of where her ego wanted to go, and owned up to that. What, we've been "used" by being forced to hang out in mudcat BS threads against our will, when we could have devoted that same time and energy to hanging around in different mudcat BS threads? ;) It's not like we're working up a sweat.

In fact, we may have persuaded incognito from talking trash, out of frustration, against her nemesis outside the proper channels.

"Mudcat BS does Good Day for Day"

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 14 May 03 - 02:12 PM

The questions that Susan raises are good ones (which should surprise Gargoyle enormously), the one about the manhole is especially apt.

For those of you who have never been involved in HR/personnel situations, you should understand that it is the responsibility of a prospective employer to check educational credentials, references, and employment history. At minimum, the prospective employer wants to talk to the supervisor at the current or last job.

The thing is that that for reasons of legal liability and confidentiality, the current employer often will say very little, other than to confirm that the person worked for them.

For instance, if the new employer had called me, I would not have been able to say anything about the problem we had with her, or with its resolution. If asked, I would have been able to give the positions she held, the amount of time she held the positions, and the job descriptions. After that, the prospective employer has to figure things out for themselves.

The thing is that the prospective employer never called our offices at all. In efffect, that is choosing to walk toward an open manhole without even giving anyone a chance to tell you what is ahead.

Just so you all understand, there is no "acceptable" way to convey this information if the prospective employer doesn't take the initiative to find it on their own. They chose not to do this for reasons of their own, and if anything hits the fan, their choice will be questioned.

People may ask why they didn't contact the references, but they won't ask why the references didn't contact them.

I guess that I assumed that part of admitting she did something wrong and accepting a transferred to a job she was qualified was the implication that she'd never do it again. I feel like I gave her the benefit of the doubt and used it as an opportunity to be dishonest again.

I realize that people have tended to think that I should go ahead and do what I feel like doing, but in the process of agreeing with me, no one has come up a way for me to come forward without looking like I am an outsider who is meddling.

Remember that this is is happening in a world of policies and procedures, and practically speaking, being ethically or morally right is less important than knowing the procedure and having the policy to back it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 May 03 - 02:07 PM

It sounds incredibly arrogant to me.

Spaw, ya 'spose? Same as some of the other *J* threads we've had?:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 May 03 - 01:40 PM

To clarify-- "The right word" would be a suggestion to take a fresh look at the person/situation, not an indictment or accusation. Literally, a word-- one word.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 14 May 03 - 01:08 PM

Although I don't like this true-life, way of the world, fact:

>>>In the circles I move in, I could handle the issue with the right word dropped over a lunch with the right person. <<<

This assumes the guilt of incognito's nemesis.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 14 May 03 - 12:49 PM

Still to respectfully disagree. Susan's approach is excellent, her own problem resolved brilliantly, and I don't see that she says action is mandatory.

One thing hit me this morning, and in line with what wysiwyg's post. Since when does someone get a job, especially a job of this nature, based on a blind application, as opposed to a personal contact within the organization?

And don't miss that that incognito's superior has responsibility here. The question, as I see it, relates to the details of how the successor entity did the reference check, and may have been duped. This is a matter for incognito's superior's to handle, by my vote, if I had a vote, which I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 May 03 - 07:42 AM

So glad we could be of service. Lessee here......

You told your tale and got feedback which is what you wanted. It wasn't a matter of acting or not acting, you never intended to act. No, what you wanted was to see all the possible points of view so that you could rationalize them away. You had already made your mind up to do nothing, just wanted to be sure that you had a rationalization for every eventuality.....all your bases covered! I hope we didn't miss any because it seems you've now made the whole thing go away!

Always happy to help.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 May 03 - 12:13 AM

Stilly - I believe this is the FIRST TIME you an I have ever agreed on any situation within the MudCat,,,,the left-eye and the right-eye ....are giving you clear vision.

It is now up to YOU to act...and to act NOW ...not a day later....and you CAN do it incognito.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:58 PM

Incognito, you're in danger of wallowing in self-pity. Clearly something needs to be done. Pull up your socks and make the call. Mudcat members have given you a lot of support and a lot of talking points. Now you have to act. Turn her in, get her out of that important job she shouldn't be entrusted with. And report back at a suitable time.

I wish you extremely good luck with this task. It is difficult; if someone else were feeding you the information I'd say something entirely different (remember Fred McMurray and Van Johnson in The Caine Mutiny?) You're acting on your information. To vacillate now is to put yourself in league with her.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:34 PM

Hold the phone! Just because you are having feelings you consider petty right now does not mean you don't still have an ethical dilemma to confront.

Here's another way you might try, to get a clear view of it independent of the "petty" stuff... How do wish this had been handled by the person who employed her just before she joined your team? Did it serve your interest to inherit the result when someone else might have thought they were acting in their own interest? Was it OK with you that it "unwound on its own" through your organization? Did it unwind sufficiently to correct the problems that were caused?

I don't think you have to take responsibility for the whole world. But in the circles you move in, is it really in your interest to let this go around again within what amounts to a pretty small community? Will it eventually boil down to, "I wonder who was the last idiot she managed to fool?" or, "Who was the spineless idiot who passed this along to ME?" Are these people you need to get along with at some point down the road, and what would you hope for, from them, if they were in a situatiuon like this?

In the circles I move in, I could handle the issue with the right word dropped over a lunch with the right person. In fact it would be handled by people in our town with just a look, in response to the right comment from someone else. "Um, uh.... I can't comment on that, although I'd like to be able to say more...." That would be enough to give them a heads-up. And it would be considereed poor form if I had such an opportunity under similar circumstances, and let it pass, and let a member of our community get sh*t all over their shoes as a result.

Actually, I am dealing with a situation not too unlike yours, right now. What I decided to do was report that I had become aware of a problem, that I had discussed the matter with the individual about whom I had developed a concern, and during the course of this, as a friend, I had found myself recommending to the individual that she drop out of a process that would have led to quite a bit of authority being entrusted to her, at least until she cleared up the problems that would inevitably come to light in that process. When I reported this, I very carefully and deliberately did not disclose what the problem was-- I decided that the person I reported to could decide how much detail was necessary, how much knowledge he really wanted to have on record about the matter, and whether he wanted to ask me anything more. The result was that enough of a red flag was raised that others involved in that process were invited to keep a closer watch as it progressed. Maybe the individual will rethink, address the matters that need to be cleared up, and learn something that will help her in the long run, as well as anyone she would work with. I doubt it, but you never know what someone will make out of a second chance.

What I tried to do was assess how far my responsibility went, and who else in the larger situation had a responsibility, and what it was-- and then tried to fulfill my responsibility in such a way that they could reasonably fulfill theirs.

How far our responsibility goes, I think, is neatly summed up in this advice to parents of teenagers: When you see someone heading for an open manhole, and they clearly can see it, but are going that way anyway, that's on them. But if it's obvious that they do not see it at all, you holler, "Manhole ahead!" Then, if they choose to walk right into it, that's on them.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 13 May 03 - 09:58 PM

I don't think of it as a ethical dilemma--I am trying to figure out if this is really my business at this point in time, or if it is pettiness--and I am leaning toward thinking of it being pettiness about now--

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 13 May 03 - 06:21 PM

hmmmm, it appears as though from your last post, you don't believe you have an ethical dilemma. Now I understand a little better! an interesting variant on "cops and robbers."

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 May 03 - 04:43 PM

And what is the general thinking around the office on this, among people who know what happened and/or worked with her? Was there no opportunity at the time a reference was given, or was no reference check done at all?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 13 May 03 - 04:17 PM

Good Lord - No I didn't. My original comment was right, except that I should have said three sentences. My own incompetence amazes me daily. Go easy on her if you can. . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 13 May 03 - 04:13 PM

Point of clarification: When I said your last two sentences, my screen wasn't showing your last paragraph. I was referring to these (three) sentences:

>>For a reference from our office, she apparently had the new employer contact a manager who had taken a leave of absence before her problem came up and so hadn't been told about what happened, and didn't know anything about her job performance.

I heard about this through the office grapevine.As always, there were a few people around who knew what was going on the whole time, but kept it quiet.<<

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 13 May 03 - 02:29 PM

I do know for a fact that she doesn't have any of the credentials that she claimed, because I had our HR officer check(belatedly). Interestingly enough, her oldest son will graduate from college next month and when I ran into papa at the mall a few days ago, he proudly told me that junior is the first in either family to do this. I was stunned by the implication, which is that he has no idea what she is doing.

Heric's points are sadly true, and I tend to be one of the first to point them out. As to my self-interest, practically, it is best served by leaving this all to unwind on its own(which it will). I think my ego wants to help it along a little

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Beccy
Date: 13 May 03 - 02:04 PM

Might I gently suggest that prior to making any decision on how to proceed that you make a quick consultation with a lawyer? Depending on what field, precisely, in which you are involved, this could bite you in the rear in a big way. I'd suggest you make it clear that you will be informing someone of the falsehood she committed and that you want to know the best way to proceed legally that will cover your hide.

That's my 2 cents worth.

Beccy

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 13 May 03 - 01:11 PM

Wow, this 12:45 message adds a lot - this one is sure fun for all the rest of us, incognito. I guessed the first paragraph was the case, and am glad to see it.

Briefly, though, I would like to add another non-traditional viewpoint, regarding your last two sentences:

I have found in my now middle-aged existence after exposure to several varying types of office operations, including health care administration, that incompetences, disarry, and multitudes of people quietly or loudly trying to conceal their fears of disclosure is the norm, not the exception.

The point: having found her dirty laundry upon her departure does not weigh heavily into the equation.

Taking advantage of the confidentiality - I do believe the answer to your ethical dilemna is more likely to be found here than elsewhere. (And the undertone of resentment is palpable - HOWEVER, the appropriate corrective action, the RIGHT thing, is not to be confused with self-interest, except insofar as it helps you sleep at night.)

And I disagree (not claiming to be right, just wouldn't choose it myself) that you should feel responsible for the successor organization's failings. They can screw up this and many other things all by themselves, whether you were born or not.)

Undecided.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: NicoleC
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:58 PM

Ah. Sorry, didn't mean to pounce on the guilt thing. It sounds like you aren't to blame for any of this, but you are concerned anough about the subject to worry over it.

Which comes back to you not knowing for sure she really doesn't have those credentials. She might just be incompentant.

IMO, her current employer needs to have the opportunity to check out her background and take whatever measures they see fit. If you don't want to go public, maybe it can be handled through the executive grapevine. You pass the info on to the highest manager you have a relationship with. Most of these guys play golf together (or other suitable local ritual), and then the information can be discreetly passed to the other company. If she's innocent, at least her name isn't smeared in public. If she's not, it's really up to her current employer to decide what to do about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:45 PM

Just so you know, I didn't hire this person from the outside--we became friends through working together, and she worked here before I did. She had been hired by someone who was long gone, and there had been several reorganizations, so my boss was   put in charge of her section, and he simply accepted that everyone had the background that they claimed.

When I found out, I did tell him. It was my choice as to how to deal with it, though, and everything was handled confidentially. No one outside the chain-of-command knew what happened.
As near as I can tell, she took advantage of this "confidentiality ". For a reference from our office, she apparently had the new employer contact a manager who had taken a leave of absence before her problem came up and so hadn't been told about what happened, and didn't know anything about her job performance.

I heard about this through the office grapevine.As always, there were a few people around who knew what was going on the whole time, but kept it quiet.

What was she thinking about when she told me? I don't have any idea at all. After she left, we discovered a lot of problems that she had been keeping under wraps. Maybe she had had enough and was just looking for a way out. If I knew then what I know now, I would have given it to here.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: NicoleC
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:43 PM

Yikes! The problem grows thorns! That gnawing feeling is not concern, it's guilt and fear.

Let me add to Spaw's scenarios.

1) You don't tell anyway, and hope she doesn't get caught, because when she does, you are likely to get caught, too.

I'd say this is a slim hope. After all, she told YOU. Who says she won't tell again, maybe to someone who won't keep quiet? In this case, Spaw's SCENARIO #1, I agree, is spot on the money. You are fired and disgraced because of your unethical behavior. Your chances of getting another job in the industry are slim.

2) You tell. You might get fired for either having hired her in the first place or not firing her immediately when you found out. But, your chances of getting another job remain strong since you showed for all the optimisitc reasons Spaw outlined above.

Or, you could keep your job for those same optimistic reasons. You might be bypassed for promotions or raises or suffer other consequences on the job, all of which can be shaken off when you get a new job.

I think it's very likely this will come back to haunt you. By coming clean yourself, you may survive. And it you come clean to your boss including her current employment, s/he may be able to pursue her situation with the other company on a higher level, which could keep this from being a vendetta about YOU going after HER. She may still blame you for squealing, but I don't other people will.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:29 PM

Incognito/a, the employer she works for now saw in her records that she worked for your company before and is assuming that you did the background check. Their mistake, but you set it up so they could make the assumption.

It's time to undo that damage.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:24 PM

I agree with you, Pat with regard to Number One! I would not like to be in this person's shoes although I face down my own ethical goofs almost every day of my life! It's a painful process...Sometimes you pay dearly for these mistakes, and sometimes you don't. Once again, good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:12 PM

Harpy, I quite agree that Scenario Two may be optimistic, but I will flat guarantee that Scenario One is balls on the money!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:05 PM

My apologies for doubting you, MI. You do have a dilemma...you will certainly clear your conscience if you admit your own mistakes but the outcome might not be as good a one for you at Pat predicts. Good luck....hg