BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate

Subject: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: Amos
Date: 20 May 03 - 01:39 PM

The Times has been scandalized, and now the Post reveals it has, in one instance, plagiarized a story.

It is clear that the only newspaper on which you can truly count for consistent reliability is the National Enquirer. Who'd a think they would ever be a bastion of journalistic..um...integrity?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 03 - 01:57 PM

That is a foul story. National Enquirer, Wal-Mart, Kathie Lee Gifford...damn. Talk about testing your gag reflex.

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: Amos
Date: 20 May 03 - 02:52 PM

LOL, Nameless!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: wilco
Date: 20 May 03 - 05:44 PM

Unfortunately, the press believes their own press. I grew up with the Sulzburger family, who owns the NYTimes. Also, with Shelby Coffee, editor of LATimes and head of CNN. These media giants are not bastions of probity.

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: Amos
Date: 20 May 03 - 09:47 PM

"The press believes their own press..."

Wow! Self-amplification ad infinitum et ad tintinnabulus!

Wodda concept.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: Gervase
Date: 21 May 03 - 05:12 AM

Doesn't surprise me about the NY Post. Supermrket rags aside, the US press enjoyed a far greater reputation for probity than the British - until the Post imported a lot of British tabloid hacks to 'liven up' its coverage. The Post had noticed how successful the Inquirier had become with an injection of Fleet Street chutzpah and thought it could generate some of the same success. It did, but with its reputation for accuracy, honesty and straight reporting in shreds.
Speaking as a former Fleet Street staffer myself, I can say that there are few publications in the UK that haven't carried inaccurate, plagiarised, biased and unfair copy. When I was a foreign correspondent it was quite common, on quiet days when there was no-one you could quote officially, to listen to the BBC World Service on short wave and file the gist of it back to your own desk in London; a bizarre way of justifying expenses by sending your paper material that originiated half a mile down the road at Bush House!
British hacks also have a tendency to interview the first taxi driver they find on the basis that 1. he probably speaks some English 2. He can then be persuaded to part with a pad of blank receipts to help in doctoring expenses claims. These pearls of wisdom are then filed back as 'scources close to the administration/opposition'. Straightforward 'lifts' from the local newspapers are so commonplace as to go unremarked. Even back in the UK plagiarism is an everyday thing - I once sent an invoice to the short-lived 'Today' newspaper because it was lifting whole articles of mine and publishing them under someone else's byline. The Daily Express even has a made-up byline for plagiarised pieces - 'by Jack Dawe'.
Sadly in the UK the printed media is dreadful, and it's a shame that it seems to be spreading to the USA.
Not that the US media is beyond reproach when it's not plagiarising - the supine, craven and unquestioning attitude of the Murdoch-owned press to the current administration is vomit-inducing.

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 03 - 08:50 AM

Thanks for the reality check, Gervase -- fascinating stuff!! I am sure there's a book in it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 May 03 - 09:10 AM

As noted in the New Yorker (speaking of probity) this week, the real concern is that the New York Times has, by default, become a crucial element of the rotting American body politic. It is hard to imagine how much worse things would be without its presence to act as an intelligent critical voice and a paper of record. I assume it will recover.



Considering that I come from a really provincial country (Canada), I am constantly amazed at how truly crappy and provincial American newspapers and television are, with a couple of worthy exceptions. The best Canadian newspapers are terrible, but it is not a big and important country -- papers here are mostly designed to separate the ad pages. Even so, travelling in the U.S. I always pick up the local "high quality" paper (if there is one) to see what's what. I am shocked at how poorly written they are, even compared to Canadian papers, full of "syndicated" junk, and nary anything about the rest of the world. Nothing is written above about a grade 8 level of comprehension. The only time they seem to rise above themselves is on the weekends -- but even so, you could take most high quality American papers on the weekend, and toss out everything but about 3 pages, which would mean tossing out about 250 pages of junk per paper.

Meanwhile, in England, the better papers are at least well written, and very often you can find something about art, philosophy, music, at reasonable length in them. The weekend papers, though also massively filled with junk, are quite well put together, I think. I think the quality of the British press comes from once having been an empire, at the centre of the world (so they thought) -- there is a residual belief that public discourse is important. There is also a tradition of having some intellectuals write for the popular press.

None of these three countries' newspapers remotely compare to the quality of writing you get in Germany, even in provincial newspapers.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 May 03 - 09:31 AM

"The best Canadian newspapers are terrible, but it is not a big and important country -- papers here are mostly designed to separate the ad pages>"

Peter, while I agree with your general assessment of newspapers, (gave up my subscriptions long ago), I'm wondering by what criteria you judge a country as "big" or "important". Canada is the second largest nation on earth, and it was always pretty important, at least to me. Like, it's my home. eh? You dissin me?!? May thy toes be smitten with maple fungus, and thy tail be slapped with beaver blight!

;>) daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 21 May 03 - 12:33 PM

Interesting thread, especially with Gervase's contribution.

To prove his point, have a look a the "Europe day" BS thread. The vile xenophobic ranting of virtually the entire British press on any European Union topic - most of the broadsheets behave like tabloids when it comes to Europe - means that ordinary citizens have a wildly distorted perception of what the EU is about. One of the results of this is that the government is afraid to run a referendum on the outcome of the convention which is currently discussing the future constitutional order of the Union.

Incidentally, the Commission website blickied in the other thread was established for the specific purpose of refuting the lies published almost daily in the British press.

Subject: RE: BS: Epidemic in the Fourth Estate
From: SeanM
Date: 21 May 03 - 02:54 PM

To Peter:

"Nothing is written above about a grade 8 level of comprehension"

You must have found one written on a "good" day. I can't recall seeing much that would be considered (beyond some financial or political concepts) beyond 6th grade.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that the American public is quite deliberately being "dumbed down". We're easier to control that way.

But I'm also of the opinion that remaining willfully ignorant about internal and world affairs ("Why should I care? That's why I vote for people - so I don't have to care"... this is a quote from a co-worker) is far more treasonous than a raft of "turncoat" FBI agents selling every intelligence program down the river for a generation.

But that's me.

M