Movement of the Celts.

Subject: Movement of the Celts.
From: GUEST,Red Eye
Date: 23 May 03 - 12:24 PM

Last week saw the biggest airlift of people since the end of the Second World War. Reports of up to 120,000 people supporting Glasgow Celtic FC travelled to Seville to see their team lose 3-2 to Porto in the EUFA Final. The club was founded by Brother Wilfred in 1888 by Irish immigrants on the West Coast of Scotland. These immigrants were fleeing The Hunger or The Famine as it is now known. Support from every corner of the earth was on display including New York City, Melbourne and the Bahamas Celtic Supporters Club.   

There was not one arrest during the three day party. Billy Connolly was observed walking the streets of Seville, to 'take it all in'. Bands appeared at the drop of a hat to perform Irish/Scottish music for all the partying Celts.

Well done to everyone connected with GCFC. It will live long in the memories of all who attended.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 23 May 03 - 03:28 PM

That's wonderful, but I thought you were going to talk what I do every morning on getting out of bed, and just before the first cup of coffee.
Sorry, I know this is Catspaw's bailiwick...forgive me.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 03 - 03:42 PM

Anyone know why it is that Celtic is pronounced Seltic when it's football involved, and Keltic for all other purposes?

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 May 03 - 03:46 PM

Because Americans read it in American English without benefit of knowing the proper pronunciation, and it became a habit?

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 May 03 - 03:47 PM

And over here, that would be basketball, not football. . .

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 23 May 03 - 04:08 PM

Yes, because a few decades ago some academics got bugs up their butts about it, worrying as they do, and forgetting that (a) Celts didn't call themselves Celts, so it doesn't really matter, and (b) if I recall correctly, the Romans probably said "seltic." I may have screwed up that last point in multiple ways, but it's googlable.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 03 - 04:45 PM

the greeks called them the keltoi....

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 23 May 03 - 05:07 PM

Yes, exactly: google.

"Them" and many others: See, e.g. http://www.standingstones.com/celtmusic.html

It's interesting, but there's also a history of pedantic tyranny.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: gnu
Date: 23 May 03 - 05:24 PM

Epsom Celts would move you, but it is with a "k".

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 23 May 03 - 05:54 PM

Oxford English Dictionary.
Celt: First place hono(u)rs go to SELT. In second place, "also," KELT.

Celtic: seltic. "Also Keltic, keltic"
What is that old song, I've got kilt in my kilt?

Threads have been devoted to this.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: gnu
Date: 23 May 03 - 05:57 PM

Tilt in my kilt ?

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 May 03 - 06:33 PM

The pedants tried hard(with the full weight of Greek history behind them) to make people say Kinema, but that didnt work. Ditto marGarine, but we still say MarJarine. Celtic is bizarre: football is Seltic, relaxation tapes with low-D whistles and breathy moaning in badly pronounced Irish are Keltic. Usage, as they say, prevails.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 23 May 03 - 08:00 PM

Greg, I had something in my post about Keltic musak, but erased it- I didn't want to get hammered with a celt.
Now I will anyhow.

Cinema's treatment in the OED is peculiar. It was appearing, with that spelling, in the 1890s, but the OED regarded it as an abbreviation of cinematograph, hence did not add it until the 1987 supplement. Kinema came along during the 1910s. The 'k" sound wasn't popular with most scholars either, although there was always the oddball who insisted on using it. The OED never put the 'k' pronunciation in first place. When I was a student museum assistant, the head curator said Keramic when he was talking about china, etc. instead of ceramic. It sent us to the dictionary to check, but we found that there was no reason to adopt his pronunciation.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 May 03 - 09:11 PM

Because Americans read it in American English without benefit of knowing the proper pronunciation, and it became a habit

What has that got to do with Glesca?

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: Pied Piper
Date: 24 May 03 - 06:55 AM

WARNING WILL ROBINSON WARNING!!
THIS THREAD IS ON DANGEROUS AND UNSTABLE GROUND.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: leprechaun
Date: 24 May 03 - 10:50 AM

...breathy moaning in badly pronounced Irish.

Could well be the type of movement Seamus Kennedy is talking about.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: The Pooka
Date: 24 May 03 - 01:35 PM

I here thought the dangerous & unstable ground was over in the Nusular Bunser Bukters thread. :) But as for "football", yeah like the Sage said, the Boston Keltoi play baksetball. McGrath, you were thinking of sosser. (In Baahston, saucer.) And kpeaking of the seltoi, they called the Greeks geeks y'know. / Well, gotta go earn my celery now.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 03 - 01:47 PM

thats not celery...that is kelery....

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 May 03 - 07:46 PM

You read it first on the Mudsat Saffay...

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: Hillheader
Date: 25 May 03 - 05:27 AM

Guys

The official history of the club says "..the name was originally pronounced "Keltic" a speech mannerism Walfrid is reputed to have resolutely kept to his dying day despite the early adopyion of the softer pronounciation of the letter "C"."

Another version has it that it was mispronounced when the first turf was laid and the name stuck.

Celtic were founded to help all the poor of Glasgow's East End which although they were mostly Irish immigrants did contain some non-Irish (and indeed non-Catholic) people.

Davebhoy

PS Best of luck today Bhoys. If we beat Kilmarnock by one more goal than Rangers beat Dunfermline we will win the League title for the third time is succession.

Subject: RE: Movement of the Celts.
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 May 03 - 07:10 AM

Kilmarnock used to spelt with a C I think.Now how was it pronounced. Oh, never mind.