BS: West Wing: Goodman kills prez daughter

Subject: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 May 03 - 05:32 PM

Time to post your bets.

They cast every Democrats DREAM Republican -- a cartoonishly fat, rude, ugly, powerhungry jerk (domplete with dramatic lighting and makeup to accentuate the flabby jowls and beady eyes -- a regular Shrek in a bad suit.

Do they, on top of such a cartoonish characterization,

1.dare to have him bungle the attempt to recover Bartlett's daughter - and she gets killed because of Goodman's gung-ho over use of military.

2.dare to have him bungle the attempt to rescue Bartlett's daughter -- she gets killed as Goodman is too engrossed in a plot to maintain the ill-gained Whitehouse.

3.Knowing they've created such a cartoon character, they actually make him out to be competent (to the Whitehouse regular's surprise) and he saves Bartlett's daughter with decisiveness. And then, to their surprise (again) he is as humble and respectful in returning power to Bartlett as he was rude and boorish when he assumed it.

4. #3, except that, after he saves Bartlett's daughter, he THEN proceeds to show his true colors and will not relinquish the Whitehouse until the ever wise Bartlett outsmarts him and recovers it.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 03 - 05:36 PM

huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: smallpiper
Date: 29 May 03 - 05:44 PM

Duh and what planet are you on - I'm not being rude just curious

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 03 - 05:59 PM

This needs a different thread title, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 May 03 - 06:43 PM

Who is Bartlett, and from what is his daughter to be saved?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 May 03 - 06:56 PM

I think this has something to do with the American TV series The West Wing.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 03 - 06:59 PM

oh yawn.....

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 May 03 - 08:14 PM

Hey, I understood all of what John was posting. Guess that makes me one of the very few Mudcat West Wing nerds. Usually I don't have a clue what's going on in BS posts. LOL

My guess is on #3 but who knows what the sponsors are betting on.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 May 03 - 08:25 PM

What West Wing?

Where?

Is this something on television?

Do we have people on here desperate enough to be entertained, to watch television?

If you want to do something dumb, at least buy a banjo!

P.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: NicoleC
Date: 29 May 03 - 08:51 PM

Dave - Bartlett is a ficticious, fairly liberal president on the TV series the West Wing. He equally ficticious daughter was kidnapped, and the writers pulled out a true but obscure Constitutional provision where the Prez can hand power over to the Speaker of the House. (Because Bartlett feels concerned that he may not be able to respond appropriately for the country, since his daughter is involved.)

Actor Goodman plays the ficticious Speaker who gains power, who in this fiction is a Republican who looks an awful lot lot a younger version of Dennis Hastert.

Although WW characters typically expouse liberal viewpoints (since it's a fairly liberal White House), the writer DO periodically try to bring in strong guest characters with opposing viewpoints, and give them great monologues about it.

Other than showing off the writers' Constitutional trivia skills, I suspect this plot arc is in the same vein. All the main characters will disagree with the Speaker, but Goodman will give plenty of non-liberal speeches and fluffily garner their respect, if not their agreement.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: NicoleC
Date: 29 May 03 - 10:47 PM

P.S. It's also possible they are testing out a potential successor to Bartlett. They can only have Bartlett on the show for another 3 years; then they either have to hang up the show or find a new Prez.

A fictional liberal Presidency is fun to watch on TV when we have an ultra conservative one on the news. If a liberal democrat were elected in 2004, the West Wing might have to "elect" a conservative into office to keep the show interesting :)

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Bassic
Date: 30 May 03 - 04:45 AM

Oh I get it! Its "Yes Prime Minister" without the jokes!!

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Kim C
Date: 30 May 03 - 01:37 PM

Charley, I too am a West Wing nerd. And I'm not even a liberal Democrat! Martin Sheen has always been one of my favorite actors; and while I don't usually agree with his political viewpoints, I applaud him for putting his money where his mouth is instead of just sitting on his ass like all those other Hollywood Talking Heads.

Anyhow, I am thrilled to see John Goodman on TV. I think he's the Sexiest Big Guy in America.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: John Hardly
Date: 30 May 03 - 02:24 PM

so,
so far everyone sees #3 as the most likely?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 May 03 - 02:30 PM

Yeah, probably #3 or some variation of it. If I'm not mistaken, however, Congress will have to vote to allow Bartlett back into office.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 30 May 03 - 02:55 PM

I think a quick quote from Andrew Sullivan's column in todays Washington Times may say it all:


"What liberal media? II

    In fact, more and more journalists and media honchos are admitting they have a problem. Here's an extract from a discussion on Mr. Howard Kurtz's CNN media show, "Reliable Sources," last week. Mr. Kurtz was asking liberal commentator and screen writer, Lawrence O'Donnell, why there are no credible Republicans in television drama. Roll the tape:
   
    "KURTZ: One thing these programs have in common, conservatives are practically invisible. President Bartlett in The West Wing is a Democrat. Martin Sheen, in fact, made anti-war ads before the invasion of Iraq. "Mr. Sterling" is a California liberal based loosely on Jerry Brown. Why aren't there any Republicans?
   
    O'DONNELL: You will never get that TV show. You'll never, ever get the Republican TV show. The Writers Guild of America, my union, is at a minimum, 99 percent leftist liberal and, like me, socialist. And we don't know how to write it. We don't."
   
(Hey I didn't make this up... it's there for all, in black and white).

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 May 03 - 07:14 PM

Well, is soon as Rupert Murdock gets the go-ahead from the FCC to gobble up a few more media outlets I'm sure we'll have some conservative political soap opera to view. I can hardly wait.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 03 - 07:24 PM

Isn't the idea that when Sheen stops being President on the box he gets to do the job for real?

I think I watched an episode one time. The trouble with soaps is that you have to invest too much time working out who's who and why they are acting that way. And there didn't seem too many laughs or sordid goings on.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 May 03 - 12:01 AM

So...this is the thread that shut the MudCat down?

KUDOS to John Hardly!!!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Strick
Date: 31 May 03 - 12:15 AM

Oh dear, does this mean Rose Ann is the new first lady?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 10:17 AM

well, so far it's either 3 or 4. They're WAY over the top with a repulsive Goodman -- even has a pug defiling the Oval Office and Goodman doesn't have the sense of it's impropriety. But they throw him a bone at the end (Goodman, not the pug) and he handles a press conference "presidentially".

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 10:47 AM

OK, I too am a WW fanatic. There seems to be several misconceptions running through this thread:

1. It is a fictional show Claymore, and the example you cite doesn't seem to have a grip on reality. It is intended to be FICTION not a documentary. That means the producers of the show had a creative decision to make which had everything to do with writing, not with politics. They had to decide whether to make the West Wing a Republican one or a Democratic one. They chose the latter. Right wing conspiracy theorists will remain unconvinced, and will insist as long as this program runs, that it should have been a Republican West Wing instead, and that the choice to make it Democratic is proof the renowned liberal media conspiracy.

2. Martin Sheen has stated, publicly and often, that a) he has no intention of EVER running for president; b) Josiah Bartlett is much more conservative than he is, and; c) that doesn't matter, because HE IS ACTING!!! IT ISN'T REAL LIFE PEOPLE, IT IS A POLITICAL SOAP!!!

3. I don't believe that Goodman's character is at all over the top, nor is it the intention of the writers to demonize the Republicans with his character. I read an interview with Aaron Sorkin maybe (?) not sure who it was from the show now, who said John Goodman's delicious character is a caricature of several southern Democrat demagogues, Huey Long and LBJ, actually. So all you offended Republican leaning folks can just chill, OK? There is no danger to the public here.

4. O'Donnell is full of shit when he makes the unprovable claim that 99% of the Writers Guild is left leaning or Democrats. There is no polling of the membership in this regard, and believe me, there are plenty of conservatives right on up to nazi type writers working in the biz. Puhlenty!

BTW, I'm guessing it will most like #4. We already know that Zoe is alive, because they are showing photos of her on Al Jazeera, and we also know that Goodman's character will not be as trigger happy as the White House Dems think he will be. His character both wants to rescue Zoe because he genuinely wants to do it on a personal level, and because he knows it will make him the hero--not Bartlett--and he will gain a tremendous political windfall if he can actually pull a rescue off. He will then graciously (remember, the character believes himself to be a Southern gentleman) turn the reigns of power back to Bartlett in a highly public way, while at the same time, having set the wheels in motion for selecting the vice president to replace the one who resigned in the season finale last year, just before Zoe was kidnapped, due to a sex scandal.

BTW, the Republicans should have loved that Dem sex scandal thing, how come no mention of that juicy tidbit?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: RangerSteve
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 11:06 AM

My band gets together on Wed nights, so I don't get to see the show very much. My question is: Isn't there a vice-president? I've never seen him. What happened to him? He should be next in line to replace Bartlett in an emergency.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 11:38 AM

Right there, Ranger Steve, allow me to fill you in.

The vice president, played by Tim Matheson, resigned in the final episode (or was it the second to last episode?) of the last season right before Zoe was kidnapped, due to a sex scandal. So at the time that Bartlett decided to temporarily relinquish his office, there was no vice president, hence the Speaker of the House taking the reigns of power. Bartlett was trying to be a stand up guy by doing this, because he feared he would react as a father first, rather than in the best interest of the nation. The irony is, of course, that Goodman/Speaker/Prez states early on that he will react in the same way as any father would--by bombing the hell out of the Kumaris (or however this fictional Arab people are to be referred to--the name of the country is Kumar).

There is also another crucial plot point that hasn't been mentioned here. Zoe was kidnapped by Middle East terrorists, in retaliation for the assassination of an ambassador (I think it was) of a Saudi-like country, which is ostensibly an ally of the US, but in reality is possibly harboring terrorists and is blatantly furthering their fundamentalist Muslim/Arab oligarchy agenda.

So in the season premiere, Goodman's Speaker/President character orders a retaliation bombing take place very soon (they don't say how soon though). The Speaker/Prez and the Bartlett Prez didn't have words over Zoe's fate in the wake of the retaliatory bombing in the season premiere. When Bartlett's chief of staff protests the decision to go with the retaliatory bombing so soon because the terrorists might kill Zoe, Goodman's character bluntly says to him that they already have killed her, hence the swift decision to hurry up those bombing runs over Kumar.

So Bartlett's chief of staff tells Bartlett that it is going to happen. Bartlett is then put in the doghouse with his wife and children, because he has to explain to them who the kidnappers are, and why they kidnapped Zoe. He is the one who secretly ordered the illegal assassination of the Arab diplomat. The brilliant White House press corps journalist Danny, had already pieced together the story of the assassination, and had already reached an agreement with the White House to hold the story for a bit, but that was before Zoe was kidnapped. He then tells them he is going to publish the story within hours, and gives them the opportunity to comment first. The Goodman/Speaker/Prez then intervenes, and tells CJ (there is a romantic interest between CJ and Danny, the brilliant White House press corps dude) to pre-empt the story, and announce it before the story breaks. But CJ does a naughty thing, and disobeys the Goodman/Speaker/Prez's orders, and tells Danny to publish the story NOW.

Though Bartlett hasn't yet had words with the Goodman Speaker/Prez over Zoe's fate and the retaliatory bombing, we know they will soon, because the previews for the next show told us that Zoe may still be alive, because pictures of her were being broadcast on Al Jazeera.

Now, that should bring you up to speed Ranger Steve!

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 02:00 PM

Sheeshe!! As if the Forum wasn't reality-challenged enough!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Peg
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 02:30 PM

I am also a WW nerd, but I had to catch up with last season in reruns recently (glad I did!)
And it certainly is one of the finest shows on network television; stunningly acted, written, directed, and it has won many Emmy awards. It will be interesting to see how the show goes on now that its creator (Aaron Sorkin) has left...

I personally think this story line creates the Bartlet presidency's "9-11". This show portrays the President as a real human being with real foibles; what more challenging dilemma could face a powerful individual than the kidnapping of his child, knowing the world expects a response (no negotiation with terrorists, ever), but that any response might endanger his child further?
I think it is a clever twist, too, having Zoe, a teetotaling honors' student, fall victim to kidnappers because of ecstasy planted in her drink...given the current real-life president's daughters' illegal drinking antics...
The Goodman portrayal is a bit much (overwritten perhaps) but I think he was a great choice and he captures it beautifully. Can you imagine a president named John Goodman?

The president's name is not Josiah Bartlett, but Jed (from, I believe, Jedediah) Bartlet.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 02:48 PM

One thing more to discredit the right wing nut conspiracy theorists (I know, it's like shooting fish in a barrel) about the left wing slant of the program. One of the neo-con's darling own is an advisor to the program, John Podhoretz. John is son of one of the neocon godfathers, Norman Podhoretz. Norman has been editor of the journal Commentary since god left for Chicago, and had one of those evangelical sorts of political conversions from leftist radical to ultra conservative. His tales of being saved by said evangelical conversion is chronicled in his books like "Breaking Ranks: A Political Memoir" and his very gossipy "Ex-Friends" in which he offers up all the juicy details of life with the New York intellectuals of the 50s and 60s this phony bastard once claimed to be a friend to, like Ginsberg and Lillian Hellman.

At any rate, he is an academic literary critic turned political henchman for the neocons. It appears the acorn didn't fall far from the tree in the case of his son. His wife has just published a new celebrity worship tome about Rummy the Yummy Studmuffin, apparently for the Phyllis Schlafly audience.

Ah, America. Can it get any better than this?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 03:02 PM

Yer right there Peg, it is Jed. But! Zoe isn't a teetotaler. In the final episode last season, she and Charlie had their rendezvous at her graduation, to split a congratulatory bottle of champagne. She was in a nightclub celebrating with friends and her asshole FRENCH boyfriend (who put the ecstacy in her presumably alcoholic drink), when she was kidnapped.

As to how great WW is, I think it used to be a really good television show, but I think in the last two years, and last year especially, the writing went to hell, presumably because Aaron Sorkin's attentions were wandering elsewhere, hence his departure. I'm hoping they'll redeem the show this year with a fresh crop of writers, now that Sorkin is gone. I thought the season premiere was an excellent start, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST,Gimpy
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 03:04 PM

I completely fail to comprehend the point of this thread. How can people go on about an obscure American telly show when I have been injured in a very personal area and am facing an unjust prosecution to boot? I ask you!

Forget about this nonsense and address yourself to a far important matter and contribute to the Arthur Starling Defence Fund in Skegness, Lincolnshire, United Kingdom.

Arthur "Gimpy" Starling

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 03:40 PM

Well, Gimpy, although I agree with you completely about the relative merits of discussing an obscure TV show known but to few, I think you are guilty of a similar offense with your ill-defined tale of woe.

So no sympathies, sorry!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 04:12 PM

An obscure tv show? Only to the pop culture haters and the Brits who don't get the program.

Of course, if some of you are feeling left out, it is probably because you are being left out. But that isn't due to the program's obscurity.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Strick
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 04:24 PM

A 4 time Emmy winner for best drama doesn't count for obscure. I can imagine it doesn't translate well across the Atlantic, though.

Bartlet is fairly liberal? ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 04:27 PM

No, Bartlett is based upon Clinton/Gore. Most definitely NOT liberal. The Bartlett White House espouses center-right Democrat policies, all wrapped up in nice New England intellectual rhetoric. Or as Martin Sheen once said about the tv prez--he is the president America wishes they wanted. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 04:30 PM

Chacun a son mauvais gout, I guess...

A

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 04:48 PM

No hay mal que por bien no venga.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 04:50 PM

All I know is that Goodman killed a movie about "Babe" Ruth and another one about Fred Flintstone. Shame on him.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 04:55 PM

OK pdq--but he OWNS the Linda Tripp character!

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:00 PM

As far as that goes, have you ever seen Linda Tripp and John Goodman in the same place at the same time???

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:13 PM

Good one. And sadly, I admit that I can't say as I have. Anybody remember a veeery old Simpson's episode, where Goodman played a character named Meathook?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:57 PM

I do think that the general flow of writing on the show is that Liberal=good conservative=evil...

BUT...

It has created some VERY interesting episodes and characters in order to balance such notions...

Like the episode with the White House staff on the road in Indiana and Ohio finding themselves so completely out of touch with the common man that they aren't even listening to their base voters (are actually condescedingly and patronizingly dealing with roots democrats who are offering up pragmatic solutions to problems). That was a real slam to Washington in general.

And the Ainsle character (who is now on CSI Miami) who had a chance to dispel common feminist misconceptions.

And they are going to have to try to make Goodman somewhat believable...
....at the same time they are really taking Bartlett down a big notch -- he's in church praying fergodsakes! He ordered an assassination that triggered the whole current event, and they even gave the best line of the opening episode to a Goodman staffer...

"That really worked well with the MS thing didn't it?"

All in all, whatever their original intent (liberal or not), America has moved on and it is, to its credit, moving with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:26 PM

I'd feel much better John, if you were to also admit that Hollywood isn't exactly any more in touch with everyday reality than are the Beltway politicos and pundits, and this show proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Not only does Jane Q. Public (more women than men watch this show) not get that, but they continue to believe that Peter Jennings would never lie to them, that the show demonstrates just how noble and intellectual the real Clinton West Wing was, that Martin Sheen will run for president when the series gets cancelled, that Saddam really was behind 9/11, AND that the neocons will still find WMD in Iraq.

TV is real...TV is real...TV is real...

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:36 PM

Look, pdq, it wouldn't take much to kill a movie about Fred Flintstone! I should think a styrofoam pellet fired from a peashooter would be enough to do the job. So why blame John Goodman for what was simply a totally rotten idea in the first place? :-)

Now let's hope they don't decide to also do a feature film with live actors based on Yogi Bear or "Nancy". Gahhh!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:12 PM

Another movie destroyed by Jonn Goodman is an awful thought, but what Kim C had in mind is downright scary. She should know that breeding white women to farm animals is illegal is the Southern states, and that includes wildebeast.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:13 PM

I for one would relish a film about Yogi Bear.

"Excuse me, Mr. Ranger Sir..."

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Kim C
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:42 PM

One of my friends at work opined that Bartlet will take back control of the Oval Office before the Speaker can bomb anything.

I just want to see Zoe and Charlie get back together.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Peg
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 11:00 AM

Even The West Wing wouldn't dream of killing Zoe off; that's more of a Chris Carter-Millennium thing. So I predict a Charlie-Zoe reconciliation, at least at first. Turns out he was right all along about the rich French boyfriend being a jerk.

Not sure I understand what "feminist misconceptions" are...misconceptions regarding what, exactly?
Since when was Ainsley anything resembling a feminist??? (Maybe that's what John means).   The whole point of her character was her sex kitten aura (wrapped around right-wing-leaning integrity that could be swayed when the right answer was obviously staring her in the face, poitics or policy be damned), and more than one character referred to her this way.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 07:40 PM

Not sure if anyone corrected the motive for the kidnapping "in retaliation for the assassination of an ambassador (I think it was) of a Saudi-like country..."

I believe the character assassinated was the "Minister of Security" for the Saudi-like country.

Of course, they're really not characters. This is a direct feed from reality TV of the future!

Goodman will come off better, I predict, than his original packaging might suggest. I'm not so sure about his mutt.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: hobbitwoman
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 09:43 PM

I'll go w/ option #4. And I think the president's name is Josiah Bartlett, but he goes by Jed for some reason I've never been able to understand.

Annie

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: SINSULL
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 09:53 PM

Now can anybody catch me up on "Charmed"? Is Cole dead or alive? Good or evil? Republican or Democrat?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: mmm1a
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 08:32 AM

I haven't been able to watch the show as much as I would like , but I really do like it. I have one question, where is Zoe's french boyfriend ?Did He tell them about putting the extasy in her drink?

         mmm

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 10:17 AM

Just for info:

The West Wing IS shown on UK TV, although we are running a leettle bit behind the States in terms of episodes shown. Furthermore, it does translate perfectly well. I personally never miss it.

On the subject of media-haters and those congenitally opposed to TV "just because":
I had a conversation in mudchat one time with a well-established 'Catter from the US. The discussion went something like -

Me: I was watching the West Wing earlier
Catter: What, that inane drivel? How can you waste your time watching pap like that?
Me: Have you ever watched it?
Catter: I watched it once for 15 minutes, but all they did was talk at each other. It was terrible. And I could only make out half of the dialogue because of being partially deaf.

I may have invented some of the condemnatory terminology, but the essence of the conversation is there. Someone who couldn't hear it watched it once for a little while and couldn't follow it.

Not all TV is bad.
Most of it is.
But not all.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Peg
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 11:46 AM

ah,   you're right, his name is indeed Josiah...very biblical-sounding now that I think of it...

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 12:58 PM

The West Wing dialogue is fast-paced, full of jargon and archane references. I miss a lot of it the first time through, as I'm sure others do who live and breath this dialogue full-time. Any one who has worked full-time om a political campaign can't help identifying with some of the situations and characters that some up in this series, and re-experiencing the constant pain and occasional joy of such work.

I wish Zoe well, and I suspect her French boyfriend will be exiting the series after they have finished interrogating him.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 02:51 PM

I thought from the thread title that John Goodman had challenged Jenna to a drinking contest or sumpin.

Guess I was half right and leave it at that. Keep it in fiction.

Goodman is a talented actor but has been put into too many movies roles where he doesn't fit. (Usually physically.)

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Oct 03 - 02:59 PM

I wonder who would drink who under the table first in such a contest?

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 07:08 AM

Well, I certainly wasn't impressed with the dialogue on last night's show (I'll try not to spoil it for those UK viewers!). The show, to me, dragged on dully until the last few minutes. I sure hope the writing gets better again, because it really isn't holding my interest the way it did in the first two seasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: RangerSteve
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:33 AM

Guest - thanks for filling me in on the VP question. According to the coming attractions, they'll be looking for a VP next week.

I think the show jumped the shark with the kidnapping.

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 03:22 PM

As I said above:

"Goodman will come off better, I predict, than his original packaging might suggest."

Yep, even "Josh" was surprised.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 03:38 PM

Did anyone else pick up on the new intern whose g-g-grandfather is suppossed to be President Pierce? of course - as we know from the conspiracy threads right here on the 'cat - President Pierce has no living descendants!

Subject: RE: BS: Goodman kills prez daughter
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Oct 03 - 08:26 PM

Yes, MMario, I noticed the appearance of the intern related to President Pierce, a graduate of Bowdoin College, who generally has the reputation of being the least significant president in the history of the United States. It doesn't surprise me to learn he has no real or legitimate descendants. He hardly merits more than a single footnote.

Charley Noble