BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!

Subject: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST,Freaked Out
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 01:44 PM

You've all gotten the "Nigerian Letter" in your e-mail, and like me, probably thought it was pretty ludicrous. Me too, at least until yesterday, when we found out that my Mom has been sending large amounts of money out of the country to someone who is claiming to use it to get lots of money that is being held--well, you know the story.

We've reported it to the authorities, but we've also found out that she has been told that this is a scam before, and has gone to all kinds of trouble to conceal the fact that she is sending the money off--

The thing is, she worked for years in accounting and money management, and is the last person that you'd think would fall for this--If anyone has dealt with this kind of problem and has any ideas, or knows of any resources, let me know--

Sorry to be incognito, but mom knows some of my music friends, and it could be a little embarassing --

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 01:57 PM

Sit her down and tell her that she can't waste her resources like this. Tell her that it's her money to do with as she sees fit, but that she's NEVER going to get any back and when she needs it (use medical examples) it will be gone, stolen from her. Then tell her, if you must, that you'll have her judged unable to take care of her finances if it doesn't stop -- and if necessary, do so.

She probably thinks that she'll get a big payoff that she can leave for her kids and grandkids (if any).

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 02:21 PM

as bad as it may hurt, you need help her understand that millions of people must have gotten that bait, and that NO ONE chooses someone at random to transfer money like this. There are many internet sites exposing these scams...let her read a couple.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 02:26 PM

You might also encourage her to get a checkup from her doctor to make sure there is nothing going on mentally which would contribute to her doing such things, i.e. maybe being forgetful, etc. due to Alzheimer's or some other condition.

If you are able, it might also be a good idea to go talk to her banker, with her, to alert them to the fact this has happened and get them to add you to her accounts so that you may monitor what's going on/or be alerted by them if she starts withdrawing a lot, etc. Of course that would have to be with her permission, unless you get her declared unfit.

Good luck. I do think a lot of people think just as Rapaire said, they think they'll have a lot to leave their kids, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Amos
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 02:26 PM

Snopes is commonly used as a clearing house. Examining the original letters sdhould be enough if you can get her to see clearly what is there, unobscured by visions of sugarplums. To start with, it is pretty improbable that some Nigeriam multimillionaire heir would track her name down among the millions of people out there as to obviate the whoile thing. Secondly the fact that thousands of people recieve these emails daily demonstrates it is not what it seems. There is plenty of history on others similarly ripped off.

If you cannot dissuade her from the folly of it, you really only have two choices -- let her waste her money as far as she wants to, or put it under guardianship on the basis of incompetence, neither one of which is a pretty option.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: harpgirl
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 02:33 PM

...she needs a family member to go to a judge and arrange to become her guardian. In Florida the statute 744.3215 identifies the rights that a court may delegate to a guardian. The court must specify which rights the ward is unable to exercise for him/herself. You are suggesting that she isn't competent to manage her own funds at this point in her life.

The guardian would then be a limited guardian. You must file a petition with the court to begin this process. The court then appoints a three person committee, which must include a psychiatrist and two other mental health practitioners, or a gerontology specialist to examine the individual on behalf of whom the guardianship is proposed.

Your mother can voluntarily petition the court to get a guardian to manager her funds under Florida Statutue 744.341 or the corresponding statute in your state.

good luck if you are serious about this question!

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 03:11 PM

I think before any severe legal action is recommended, it's important to ask how old is this poster's mother, what is the state of her health, what is her history on things of this nature, etc.

After all, if she was buying lottery tickets (odds 14 million to 1, often) no one would be questioning her mental competence.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST,Freaked Out
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 03:30 PM

Her response to Bill and Rapaire is,"I do what I damned well please, and if anyone doesn't like it, FUCK THEM!!"--at least some of the time. At other times, she says it was stupid and that she won't do it again. As I said above, the family just found out, but others, including her banker, knew about this before and tried to talk her out of it, she got around them.

Kat's suggestion is being followed up--thing is, she apparently keeps things from her doctor, so family members are going with her to fill in--as I just mentioned, she occasionally gets very diffident and curses, which she has only started to do since she started watching "The Sopranos", mostly, and to most people, she seems the same as ever-

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: NicoleC
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 03:50 PM

You know what? It IS her money. Unfortunately, she may need it for medical care, and then it won't be there.

I think the first and most important thing is to get her brain health evaluated. This is so crucial for her well being I would worry about the money later. Sadly, it seems as though she's losing her reason, and this may not just be normal aging.

But taking control of her finances sounds like a good idea, especially if it can be done in a way that keeps her involved and saves her pride. If you can stash away a good portion of it for emergencies, she can always have an allowance for mad money -- and if she sends it to Nigeria, well, that's her entertainment. People spend money on stranger things.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 03:53 PM

Pursue the idea of having a feduciary named, and serve official notice on her bank that you are doing so...in writing, registered letter, etc. They propably can't legally do anything to stop her taking large sums of money out until a financial guardian is named, but they might be able to come up with some way to notify you when she does so.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 04:00 PM

So she's started cursing since she watched 'The Soprano's' has she? And is sending money overseas? Refusing to answer questions of her family and physician?

Quite obviously she has joined 'The Family'

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 05:23 PM

Check here, and
here for some good info.

Ang good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST,Freaked Out
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 06:36 PM

I really appreciate the input, and I concur that the brain health and not the money is the real concern, and it will be the sole focus as soon as we make sure the finances are secured--I didn't mention it, but she also handles money and health care for my dad, who has some serious chronic problems, and had needed looking after for quite a while--

For some reason, Rapaire, I didn't think to check the Mayo site,and it is quite helpful--Stroke and diabetes are both factors, and she is taking many(perhaps too many) meds--

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 06:43 PM

*sigh*...yeah, it's her money...but...

a great-Aunt of my wife sent enormous amounts of money to TV evangalists like Jimmy Swaggart, while as the same time confiding and complaining about 'the little black boys who hide in her attic and steal things' when she was not looking.....this was a lady who was at one time a brilliant, witty person who managed her affairs just fine, until she reached her 80s...and then was STILL sharp enough to 'sound' ok...most of the time.

I hope it works out, but I suspect it will only get worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 06:55 PM

Good luck. Have you thought about continuing the pretext of the scam? Lure the bastard out of hiding? "I lost my car keys and would go to the bank to sign everything over to you if I could just get a ride to the bank..." Something like that. Make sure no one but you is there when the guy comes and see if you can't collect...in one way or another. Or that's just how I'd do it. You might want to set something like that in motion and then let the law arrest whoever shows up. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 07:27 PM

If people have a tremendous inner desire for such a miraculous windfall (and figure life owes it to them for some reason) it can lead them far astray. My father is one such. Although he has received numerous of these scams, and is certainly aware that they are scams, he still couldn't resist following up on one, just in case of that hoped-for windfall! It led to repeated communications with various mysterious people, one of whom he finally arranged a meeting with in New York City while there on other business. The meeting turned out to be a total waste of time. The upshot of it was, they never got any real money out of him (as far as I know), but they did succeed in wasting quite a bit of his time and energy. Plus, they just would not go away! Once these sharks get a scent of blood they are very persistent. The last Email they sent that I saw began with..."Mr ------, ARE YOU COMPLETELY INSANE???!!!" (presumably for turning away from their incredibly generous once-in-a-lifetime offer with its ridiculously simple requirements). That's not what I call a smart sales technique...

He could've replied, "No, I'm just greedy and want something for nothing...same as you!"

I think they finally gave up after that one.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Leo Condie
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 07:32 PM

"Have you thought about continuing the pretext of the scam?"

Alas, this feller doing the scamming is just as likely to be in, well, Nigeria, as round the corner.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST,Freaked Out
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 07:55 PM

Right, Leo--All phone contacts, all from a country with no extradition treaties with the US--money transferred to overseas accounts--hence, no opportunity to wring anyone's neck--

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 08:14 PM

Refer those folks to me, LH. I make phone solicitors repeat their spiel three times before I say no. If I'm lucky, it's a long ten minute spiel. Put them on the speaker phone and feed the dog, then come back and tell them I missed part of it...could they give me the details again. Drives them nuts. Don't get as many solicitation calls as I used to, though. Wonder why.

DG

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: harpgirl
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 09:43 PM

...SINCE SHE STARTED WATCHING THE SOPRANOS???

I hope you're kidding because if she is behaving as inconsistently as you describe and you don't recognize this as an organic personality change, perhaps you should have a battery of tests yourself!

If she pisses away your inheritance this way and you don't stop her, you deserve the consequences! Sorry pal, but that's my unvarnished opinion...harpgirl

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST,Freaked Out
Date: 18 Jul 03 - 11:12 PM

Why would I joke about a thing like that, Harpgirl? It is perfectly true--But I do also recognize that modeling inappropriate behavior from a TV program is a disturbing personality change--Her doctor doesn't seem to recognize it though--he told here that she had nothing to worry about since everyone talks like that these days and it is no longer considered offensive!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: harpgirl
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 12:49 AM

...typical doctor!

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Bassic
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 04:56 AM

Advice to all those with ageing parents who are still of sound mind. Show them this thread. Discuss with them how they can best be protected and do something about it NOW!!

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 09:09 AM

Seems to me that the physician needs a talking-to, by the State Medical Board if necessary, if s/he believes that. You might let your displeasure with such idiocy be known, first to the doctor and then higher up if necessary.

...damned fools who think that "MD" means "Mighty Deity"...grumble grumble...seen it elsewhere and too often...only the pathologists make the right diagnosis...grumble grumble....

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 10:39 AM

Every day I stand behind good trusting hard working or retired Canadians, and watch them throw their money in that pit called the lottery. At first it broke my heart just thinking how they survive on a reduced amout due to their own naievity. Now I just shake my head in wonder.

Every day 8 (EIGHT) busses go from Toronto to CASINO-RAMA in Orillia (yes, where Little Hawk is from) filled to the brim with seniors ready to spend their money. Yes it's mind-boggling but unstoppable.

Your mom will thwart all attempts to stop her...the pull must be verrrry strong. I'm sorry.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: LadyJean
Date: 19 Jul 03 - 11:13 PM

A friend's grandmother died, recently, in a nursing home that ought to have been closed down. She was perfectly rational, for most of her life, on all topics except religion. She gave most of her money to the local Christian television station. The family couldn't stop her. I wish you better luck.
When I get a Nigerian scam spam, I respond, explaining that my grandfather is a judge. (Well he was. He died when my father was 15.) I suggest that legal action will be taken. Somebody ought to do something about these spam scammers, if only because of the space they take up peoples' mailboxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 04:50 AM

LadyJean, just so you know, responding helps them to verify that yours is a legitimate email address which they can then send more scams to and also sell on email lists to others of their ilk. All of the spam I get goes straight into the "trash" box.

Subject: RE: BS: Elderly Family Member Scammed--Help!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 03 - 10:53 AM

My family read a book about Alzheimer's when my mom came down with it. Called 'The Thirty-six Hour day' or something like that. Considered the best on the market at the time. Lots of good (but depressing) info. What chapped me was how the most pertinent stuff was at the END of the book. Like signatures and power of attorney.

As Alzheimer's progresses, your handwriting goes. And to sign a durable power of attorney, you have to be 'of sound mind'. So, my mom said for her whole life she didn't want to be on a respirator, force fed, etc., then suddenly I read that a simple power of attorney would not allow the family to pull the plug as per her wishes. Has to be a DURABLE power of attorney, or else the nursing home could force feed her until doomsday and there's no way we could stop it, even though it's against her wishes. And for her to assign durable power of atty, she has to sign, but the Alzheimers wrecks your handwriting...etc. And the tidbit about 'get those documents signed in the early stages of the disease' was at the END of the book.

So we hustled and got the papers signed just before she sank to another level.

I suggest all of you with aging parents look into the rules about guardianship and power of atty in your state, and talk to your folks about it. If they say they don't want to continue under certain physical circumstances, they'll have to do the paperwork.