BS: Portrait artists

Subject: BS: Portrait artists
From: Sam L
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 04:27 PM

I'm going to quit a job and paint portraits for a while, mostly kids, and I was wondering what M'catter's thought about portraits in general, observations and possibly experiences. Or if you were going to have one done, what would you look for?

   I've been studying other portrait artists and their business and prices and such, trying to prepare some advertising and things. But it seems to me that there is just something odd about many portrait artists, generally, and their work. Is it just me? As best I can name it, most who call themselves "traditional" portrait artists, seem more a peculiar contemporary vein I'd call "How-to" artists. A lot of them write how-to books, and follow a fairly programatic style, which, if you talk to them, has many odd inhibitions. It makes me wonder if they really reflect people's wishes, or if it's just a peculiar business culture, as it seems to me.

   Any thoughts? ideas? advice for building a little business?

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: mack/misophist
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 06:04 PM

Once one reaches the necessary level of skill, painting protraits becomes like playing checkers. Anyone in the group can do it but only a handful are really good. The best don't paint faces but hearts.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 07:48 PM

I had a girlfriend who had the college degree but not much practical experience. She painted portraits of my daughters and other friends for practice and to show to prospective clients. Through her then-husband's employment, she wound up in a popular resort town in Colorado and worked her arse off getting known there with a booth in the summer at the local outdoor market, in galleries, wherever she could, all the while keeping up her skills.

She has since gone on to paint portraits of the movers and shakers of the world, including former president Gerald Ford. She gets flown to mansions all over to take photos of her "subjects" then works from those and from actual sittings.

I think for her it got a bit boring though. Last I knew she was still doing portraits but was branching out into also doing paintings of architectural landmarks/homes, etc. and still doing very well financially and artistically.

I treasure her early work of my girls.

Good luck to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 08:05 PM

Go beyond the traditonalal backdrops and put your subjects in environments that are relavant to them as people and yuo will be successful. Sure, it might involve some still life work within the painting but it will be worth it, because you will have gone beyond the "basics".

Also, do a couple of pencil, charcoal or pen and ink quickies to get the drawing and compostional aspects down.

Lastly, if you are going to ask more money than the "usual cast of portrait painters" then be ready to explain why. There are assembly line painters and there are fine artists. Right?

Good luck.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 08:16 PM

That's what my friend does, Bobert, paints them in their favourite environment, much more natural than the more formal old-fashioned ones, imo.

Oh, and, Fred, listen to Bobert. He knows what he's talking about, said she who was the lucky recipient of one of his pen and ink pieces! Thanks, again, Bobert!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:22 PM

You are infinately welcome, Kat...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:32 PM

Good for you, Fred. That's something I would be doing if I had the talent and skill. I would LOVE to present someone with a portrait of themselves or their family. One that actually looks like them... Mine always looks like their cousin.:)

The best of luck to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Sam L
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 09:40 PM

Thanks for responding!
I've been doing this pretty inexpensively for a few years, and think I need to start charging more, because I have more work than I can get done. I've done some in particular places, often yards with the kids, and I do some fairly close-up things, in a slightly untraditional way. Not the averaged dose of background space.

But among portrait artists I talk to, and spy on, any of these little tweaks of style and particularities seem very outre', and one is firmly advised not to advertise with them. It strikes me sort of funny, I feel like I'm giggling in a church, and don't know what it's about, really. Afluent clients will be put off by everything that doesn't look a lot like everything else, is basically what I hear.

I know a fair number of wealthy people, and don't immediately see where this is coming from. It's true that as an art shipper I saw a lot of houses with genuine and interesting art all around, and then a State-Fair looking portrait stuck in with it. But I don't know the cause and effect. Is there a special reason portrait artists need to respect a sort of National Style, as if we we're living under a despotic regime? I hope not, but there seems to be something to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 10:40 PM

Do it your way, enjoy it, believe in it and the rest will fall into place. Sure, it's gonna force you to tel, a few perspective clients that you don't follow "formulas" or "paint by numbers" but once that is firmly established then you won't have to answer those questions anymore as the referrals just pile up.

Hey, there's a marketing advantage to telling folks that you don't do it the way the rest of world does it. Make your subjects more special and makes the process more individualized.

Just be honest and take a few steps beyond the market and all will be well. No, weller than well...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 11:39 PM

If you haven't read the book, Girl With the Pearl Earring you should.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Homeless
Date: 26 Jul 03 - 02:37 PM

Why do you want to paint portraits? Is it to make money, or for your own enjoyment? If it's to support yourself, you'll have to be willing to do more of what the customer wants than what you want. If it's for enjoyment, you can develop your own style and can sell to those who like your style.

Get a book on the history of portraiture and learn about the phases that portrature has gone thru. Then develop your philosophy from what you learn, and shape your style around that. Some early painted portraits didn't look much like the subject, but reflected more of who that person was (socially, classwise, and work related). Other (later) artists thought that a portrait should be as near photo perfect as possible (this before photographs, of course). When you paint, do you want to put in every blemish, scar, and wrinkle? Or would you prefer to smooth out the skin and flatter the person, so that they look better? Or are you going to change your style for each person who comes thru? Know what you want to do before you get into it.

Advice for building business? Market. Advertise. And network with everybody in your area.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Sam L
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 01:15 PM

Sorcha, I haven't read it, but guess it refers to Vermeer's painting with that name?

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 03:40 PM

Yes, it is sort of a fictional biog of her. Great book!

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Sam L
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 08:15 PM

Thanks again.

I suppose I'm interested in portraits because the subjects give me something to work with, I'm never blocked, not so self-critical, and whatever one thinks about art movements and history, it's still a perfectly natural impulse to make an image of somebody.

I like kids because they have a universal appeal--round baby faces feel like looking at the moon, or the suface of a lake. With adults you tend to ask Who the hell is this, and you have to make them universal, with your stylistic choices.

Do people see what I mean about a Portrait Artist/How-to style? Or am I going on about something that's obvious to everyone else? I look at a high-finish Bougereau--whom all these portrait people especially revere, and it's lovely and rich, exquisitly lit, but there are 1500 or more such images in any second-rate movie. It seems to me there has to be some real and particular poetic content, or else being overly photographic seems sort of a cold meaningless exercise. It really isn't that hard, if you can paint at all, to paint that way. And all the fawning about these impressive exercises is like watching a hypnotised person propose to an empty chair. The all-over attention sometimes seems cold.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Micca
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 03:55 AM

Fred, a (mature) student in the Faculty of Art and Design I worked for in the Early 90s was desperate for subjects as her chosen specialization was portraits. she caught me at a weak moment (in the bar with a pint in my hand) and asked if I would sit for her, she emphasised that it meant commitment on my part to 3*1 hour sessions!! . I agreed. and she created an interesting portrait. Once the examiners had seen an graded her work she gave me the portrait!! which hangs in my living room, it is NOT a "conventional" portrait, in many ways, but is without a doubt ME!!!
If you would like I could send you a pic,(and a "normal" photo to compare with) PM me if you like!

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 12:20 PM

Last week I had the great experience of modeling for a portrait class. Actually it isn't so much a "class" as it is an opportunity for already-experienced artists to paint different people in different costuming over a period of several weeks. Anyhow, I sat in my Civil War dress, with my knitting in my lap, for 20 minutes at a stretch - for four hours. It was a lot of fun and I surprised myself by sitting still for that long!

Anyway - each of them did something different. One woman painted me very Rembrandtish, with lots of warm brown and gold in the background. Another man used that Frederick Remington blue-purple, and someone else took a more contemporary approach. I was delighted with all of them. I had always wanted to sit for a portrait; and even though I don't get to keep any of them, it was still a great time.

Subject: RE: BS: Portrait artists
From: Homeless
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 02:39 PM

Yes, Fred, I understand what you mean about the formula portraits. Mainly, because I'm going thru a similar thing to you, with the exception that I work in a photographic portrait studio. The questions I'm facing tho are how much do I retouch, and what poses do I shoot? I'd love to do only fine art portraiture, but there's not much market for that around here.

Part of the reason that many people stick with a formula is because they can bang out portraits fairly quickly, which means more money coming in. Also, while many people say they want something different, what they actually buy is the same old head shot. In our studio, we always do that same bread-and-butter headshot first, then later try more interesting things if the subject wants. When you're using oils and brushes tho, you can't just bang out a few dozen exposures, so you tend to hang with what is most likely to sell. Also, there's not a lot of money in portraiture, so many people will write books in order to supplement their income.

Which is why I asked why you want to paint. If you want to make money, you'll have to paint what people will buy. On the other hand, if you don't care about selling anything, paint what you enjoy and and be pleased if someone offers you money. My best pictures are the ones I do to and for my own satisfaction. But no one wants to buy them.