How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:20 PM

Got to be careful bringing horses here. There are a lot of people prejudiced against the idea that they can sing.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 03:38 PM

Geeze, Gimpy,

You're not supposed to bring horses to this kind of a forum!!

Are we supposed to know what you're on about? These truncated references waving in the breeze -- is that a form of English humour?


A

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,Gimpy
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 03:14 PM

Ignored. That's how I feel. Spurned, scorned, and rejected. I had thought that people would rally to my cause and see that horses were forthwith banned from all public thoroughfares, but No! A bland silence is all I get from you philistines! Very well. Be heartless. I shall persist and endure, and in the end I shall triumph over equine perfidy and corrupt law enforcement officials!

Arthur

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 02:30 PM

frae is nae English, busbitter

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 02:11 PM

Robin:

Not to encourage your self-absorption or anything, but what could "unusual but normal" possibly mean? Statistically rare, but still tolerable to the expert for subjective reasons?

A

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 09:16 AM

So back to the orignal thread concept question ... :-)

Apart from a few W******, I have been treated well by those who really know well what they are talking about, and don't need to play "put-down" games for the sake of their ego.

It's a terrific resource! Thanks Max, Joe, et. al. ...

Robin

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 09:07 AM

Thanks Liz -

Getting the score 135 on the mensa test means just that you did just that! It means Sweet Fanny Adams in the realities of life!

Why would I want to come out of the rain? Saves having to wash!

I have graduated from the SCA too... :-) I grew up!

I'm a Wordsmith (my main field of expertise - look for the BS thread on Toby Day Afternoon ), who is also highly competent in technical and mechanical and engineering areas, as long as it does not involve hand-eye coordination. But I do have an extreme sense of humour, and I no longer care if others can see the humurous links I make or not - if you do, hang on and enjoy the ride!

In Blacksmithing, for example, I have difficulty in striking accurately with the hammer (so the hammered work always looks like "a dog's breakfast"), but I can build a welding fire in the forge in my sleep, and I can temper tool steel (a visual controlled skill) exceptionally well - a natural at it. But I couldn't make a living at Blacksmithing. I could also do the acid/base titrations in Analyl Chem better than anyone else - so much that the lecturer used to get me to do the demo to demonstrate that any klutz (taking into account my performance in the rest of the lab practice!) could do the titrations - where you have to get that last drop to just faintly colour the whole flask... :-)

So I have kept trying many things...
many many things,
many many many things...
(get the British Comedy reference?)

And that's the problems with Formal Education. Because of the physical damage in some very small areas of the brain, I have difficulty remembering cold facts - I have to remember them in a relational frame, which is why I am a natural at seeing relationships among many apparently unrelated fields - a "specialising generalist"... For open book exams I get near 100% - for things like calculus, where you need to remember the magic formulae to do the derivations/integration, I am too slow to pass the exams in the time allotted. But I am exceptional in Spherical Geometry - doing 10 years of Amateur Theatre Lighting, before getting involved in other interests. I could read the play, watch the rehersal, then see the lighting hang plot in my head... and it worked...

Same reason why I am not a Classical concert pianist - but I am good at improvising and sight reading, but hopeless at remembering more than three tunes at once... they also tend to run together, which produces some amusing results at times... :-)

The problem with those who are above average is that they tend to think that they are smarter than every body else. The ego gets in the way. I know my limitations, and am always ready to acknowledge those who are my betters, but not those who just think they are. I am happy to let them have the last word, since they need it for their ego's sake...

The old saying "Those who think they are smarter than everybody else just annoy those of us who are" is true.

I hope others, especially teachers, these days do not treat children the way I was treated at school in the 1950's.

I was abused, put down, humiliated in front of classes and the whole school, given endless "cuts" - hits on the hand with a flexible piece of cane, hundreds of hours of "handwriting practice" after school (imagine wht the result was like - we used a nib and ink in those days!)

for two main reasons -
a) my micro-motor control problem meant that handwriting and any other task involving hand-eye coordination was a disaster (I can't even read my own "chicken scratches" sometimes - makes Lecture Notes a pain! and I generate hundreds of typos, and typos while correcting the typos while doing data entry like this!),

b) and I often could complete the sentence of an average teacher, before they finished it, so I had my answer ready before they expected it, so I must have been a smart-arse too!

I was labelled as a "Problem Child". I also was treated to the "labelling as a non-person" thing, as well as nothing I did, no matter how creative, produced nothing but a put down, never any praise.

In fact the more creative I am the more hostile cloth heads are, so now I know when I get attacked, I am most likely on the right track! Only when amongst really competent people in any particular field am I given respect.

When I did the Mensa test - I failed (about 120 - below 135 - the entry point!) - but when I did the Wasir - I got Plus 5 SD!!!

Simple - because of the micromotor "clerical skills" being factored out in the Wasir, but smeared all through the Mensa style tests. I am bloody hopless at those mensa tests they publish every where. But the mensa psychologist who evaluated my results said, "unusual, but perfectly normal - that's why the Wasir was invented!"

:-)

So much for Thread Creep...

Robin
The Thread Creep! :-)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:38 AM

Fooles - I don't think it was you - you've posted some quite erudite things. He couldn't even spell erudite. And he had the common sense of the average hedgehog. Years of book learning and being able to spot the mean prime number don't mean diddly if you can't understand the simple concept of coming in out of the rain.

Welcome to the "real" world at last though!

LTS

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 07:29 AM

Yes,
Rick, Amos, Liz,

I left Mensa quite a while ago... Your stories say you know why... :-)


Robin

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:24 AM

Nicely put but you know its a cultural thing.....talking down to those unfortunate enough not to be English. They just can't help it!

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 06:12 AM

The reason why I wrote 'I can only understand English' is because I don't know any other languages, espeically the Computer one, because I'm still new to it all.
I am a simple man, I just like things to simple, I also like it when people explain thinngs to me in a nice simple way.
I don't like smart asses who think that I am stupid, who think that everyone on this website can understand what is written.
Because some people aren't as smart as others.

All I did was ask a simple question that's all, and then I told the truth, I just can't understand all this computer talk.
Tom

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: kitchen piper
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 05:48 AM

I'd like to thank everyone for their wonderful and colourful answers. It's been really interesting to see what stories have been told, I loved the one about meeting a future wife, that really made me go awwww!

My main research paper is on a completely different aspect of online education, but I thought it would be interesting to see what people wrote. I now realise that it was totally above my station to ask such a thing of you. I apologize most whole heartedly and am ashamed for being such a bad citizen!
pml
Cheers guys, you're ace!
:-))
Vix

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 03:55 AM

I knew a former Mensa chairman. He's as dull as sterilised water. Ditchwater is quite interesting, it has millions of little things flapping round in it. Talking to this guy gave you, to paraphrase from 'To kill a Mockingbird' "the sensation of slowly settling to the bottom of the sea".

Mudcat is made of real people who like to interact with each other and learn about what makes the other person tick. Most other chatrooms are just full of people who want to get into your pants or show you their private parts. At least on here, the sex maniacs wait until they've been introduced.

LTS

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Menolly
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 03:53 AM

When you first started being a member of mudcat, how did it feel?
I first visited about a year ago, had a little look round, knew I was not very interested in the blues side of things, found it very American that day and so left.
Were you scared? Did it take a while to find your way around?
Yes, everyone seemed much more knowledgable.Also they all seemed to instrumentalists, many of whom also sang and/or wrote their own music. As just a singer doing occational floorspots, I felt very lowly. I did have difficulty finding my way arround. I wasn't sure where to go.
Some months later I started realising how many people were mudcatters and that tempted me back in.
Was it your first experience of being in an online community?
Yes, and it still is. I feel no desire to roam. I have found it very adictive. Is there a cure?
I read quite a few of the threads but rarely feel I have anything to contribute. I think I have started 2 threads and my question was very quickly solved. Does make me feel I should learn more!

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 03 - 12:25 AM

I tried Mensa twice, a few years apart -- went through the whole "test-and-join-and go to meetin'" loop twice...they were really good and counting backwards by sevens and finding all the little words hidden inside the full name of Millard Fillmore. But for ordinary intelligence they were, by and large, highly uninspiring. The biggest thing they were missing in general was a sense of humor. That was my experience, anyway. The Mudcat has it all over Mensa, in my humble opinion.

A

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 11:32 PM

St. Mudcatter's Dance

Approach with a smile
Reach out and touch
CLICK
Whirl around and depart

Put on a hopeful smile
Sneak back, lean forward
CLICK
Whirl around and depart

Whirl around, whirl around
Perhaps t'will change your luck
CLICK
Whirl around, dance away

Put on a wistful smile
Reach out and touch
CLICK (HUZZAH!)
Leap straight up and land on chair

Any other moves? These are the ones I tend to use. :)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Amergin
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 12:58 PM

well i'm sure you would hear better jokes at a clamdiggers convention anyways...

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 12:56 PM

There does seem to be a certain tendency for the mildest conversation to be sidetracked into quarrels. I think it's   a characteristic of the Internet as a medium, rather than the Mudcat in particular.

I think the jargon of "trolling" and "flaming" sometimes gets in the way of communication, because these are words which are used in a number of different senses. I think when we want to accuse people of being unfriendly or frivolous or provocative or whatever it's better to spell it out in old-fashioned English.

For checking out how the Mudcat has developed over the years, here is the place to go - the Mudcat archives on the Wayback Machine, all the way back to ancient history in 1998...

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Bassic
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 12:47 PM

Hook, line, sinker, copy of the "Angling Times"

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 12:35 PM

Well, I went to a Mensa meeting one time and found it to be just about the dullest evening I've ever spent. The people (AS A GROUP) were tedious, dumb and dull. Individually I'm sure they'd be as interesting as anyone else.

I've never been to a clam diggers convention, but if Kendall was there I'm sure there'd at least be incomprehensible humour!

If you have manners you'll be welcomed into Mudcat so fast it'll make your head spin. If you have attitude, it'll take longer.......but you'll still be welcomed......'cuz folkies are like that.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 11:27 AM

KP and I have chatted via PM.

Just a few quick points...

***
> Are suggesting that there is a universally recognised paper about mudcat?

NO, but that is a good troll of yours mate! :-) Good red herring too!

There ARE some universally recognised things (by the experienced) about OLC's, (if you don't know WHAT they are, then Are You Experienced? as Jimmy asked!) - one would expect that the Experienced in a Formal Institute of Training would not turn the total newbies loose without some sort of basic guide - or even a basic Bibliographical list ... I am grateful that this forum doesn't allow the quoting of previous posts in the response to a post, Max would probably gave run out of storage space by now... :-)


***
> Should this "basic material" remain gospel ... or can it be challenged by new research?

Oh, that was well covered in the thread on Academics! And in the one on Ullillellelen, er whatever, pipes!

***
> How do you know KP doesn't have the allegedly requisite technical expertise or background?

If one KNEW what a Troll was in this sort of environment, why would one say one didn't, unless one was trolling?

Wait on, my head hurts now.. <:-O

***
> "technical" infers that an understanding of on-line communities depends upon primary knowledge of programming et al

NO. NO. NO.

Doesn't even _imply_ it either :-)

Red herring!

***
BASIC MATERIAL - "Appalled" is an emotional response, not amenable to intellectual analysis... :-)

However, I _am_ surprised at the new US Marines Training manual. It seems that they are going to cut costs by not wasting time training marines about gun safety - they can pick that up as they go along - those that survive... :-)

***
The driving analogy is not really good. We drive on the other side of the road - I suppose I would find that out sooner or later if I drove in the US, after I figured out where the steering wheel was... As an Aussie I know more about US culture than most Americans know about Aussie culture (What! no kangaroos in the main street?) - we get it shoved into our faces on Aussie TV all the time... :-)

***
Who said I was an academically trained mind? I'm just a Fool! I'm insulted!

***
The Fooles Troupe lives in Gotham, I live in Brisbane... :-)
And yes, we do have toilet paper on a roll here ... :-)

***
> In the same way .... in order to drive my car ... I need to know how to interact with all the other people on the road ... and know how to control my car to do that. I don't really need to know what that red wire under the dashboard does.

So if it's loose, just pull it out - if it's really important, you'll soon learn about it... :-)

Was chatting with an ex-SAS guy the other day. He was _bemused_ when the US forces guy was astonished at the Aussie forces knowing how to change a tyre. The US guy said he was not a "specialist" in that area, had to wait for the tyre changing guy to come along... I was _appalled_ - but still laughed!

***
It's a pity that the polite statement that one does not wish to cause offence is automatically taken as meaning that the poster MUST be a Troll. Trolls like to start fights among others not calm them down. You could always check my past behaviour by clicking on my name to get all my past postings, rather than just jump to hasty conclusions to ASS-U-ME that I was Trolling... :-)

Ah the cynicsm of the modern age...



Robin

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 08:21 AM

Ahhh, well Mudcat was (and still is) only the second joint I found on this pdder thing. I like it here but I feel more at home over in Tweedsburg (tweedsblues) which is like Mayberry, RFD compared to this big ol' city.

But like a city... It's higher energy here in the Catbox and people act more like folks that is stuck in Skinner's Box, You know, a little less patient. Now that ain't all bad. If I need lyrics to a song, I can get 'em generally in 5 minutes. Back at Tweeds it might be 3 or 4 hours, or days, or never. But being city cats and somewhat couped up, this impatience can lead to rude behavior. Some folks get downright testy. Now, I've been know to walk 'round rantin' over stuff my own self but I try not to be personal 'er rude 'bout it. Just loud. They won't let be do that at Tweedsburg so I come over here and get it out of my system. Is it scarey? Well, no. Sometimes a little embarassin' but I just go and do it anyway.

As fir how I was treated? Well, the folks here who have agree with my rants have treated me purdy danged good and those who don't, fir the most part, have treated me between good *minus* and bad *plus*...

Don't know if that helps at all, but good luck with yer research. It's a very interestin' subject and I hope you will put a link to yer final paper.

Bobert

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Bassic
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 08:17 AM

A rather ill thought out and rash statement I thought.... for an academically trained mind. To be "appalled" based on such a tiny piece of information, not only seems a very imprecise use of language, but to show an almost irresponsible (for such a high mind) lack of thought about possible reasons for the situation.

I was also SUPRISED (and I use that word with great thought and care) that KP had not come across the term "troll" in connection with internet usage.

But I would give her credit for being able to come across the term for herself, recognise its importance, have the initiative to solicit a definition, prime happy guitar to feed the flames (only joking:-), generate sufficient debate to produce examples and in the process LEARN. And all without having to be spoon fed the "basics" during freshers week!! Also this is just one module of the Masters, how much of the rest of it has anything to do with the Internet?

To use the driving analogy again, I would excuse the institution for failing to explain that gasoline in the US is the same as petrol in the UK, especially if the purpose of the main study is Transport Policy not comparative US/UK Fuel use. You would soon find out for yourself on your first visit to the US anyway, and if a student wasn't able to find that out, then I think a start back in primary school would be the order of the day.

Does "appalled" happen to live in Tonbridge Wells by any chance? I bet I know what newspaper he reads:-)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 08:01 AM

Having been reccomended to the Cat by Folk Club Friends, I rapidly found that I was more into the Cat than any of the people who had reccomended it.Like many others I started off lurking, and occasionally poking my nose in as Guest,But soon decided to take the plunge.I have had my wrist slapped in the past for stepping out of line,but in general seem to get on well with most of the people in here. Actually meeting Catters in the flesh is SO easy! it really seems as though we are part of a HUGE extended family,and a few P M's and a bit of time in Mudchat makes every body sem like an old friend.
More power to Mudcat and Max, Keep up the good work.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: JonnyDyer
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 06:46 AM

Yo Robin

I like that "No offence intended kitchenpiper but," start to a trolling session! Is that responsibity deflector or what?

I think its great that people can ask/post questions to anyone/anywhere ... but the fabric of this can be endangered when someone takes the pseudo intellectual high ground to belittle another's offering.

Seeing as you have started this though, just a couple of points / questions....


"I am appalled - unless that sort of basic material has yet not been covered, but it is so basic that it should have been supplied within the first week or two - at the standards of the Instution initiating your study process..."
What basic material? Are suggesting that there is a universally recognised paper about mmudcat? Or are you suggesting that ALL online communities are identical? Should this "basic material" remain gospel ... or can it be challenged by new research? surely experiential resources/data have the same validity as inherited ones - especially seeing as the definitions of "community"and the cultural narrative of "on-line" constantly evolve as opportunuities develop.

Finally.....

Also, I am rather bemused that one is allowed to do a Masters level in an area of technical expertise with no relevant previous background... no wonder we had the rather volatile thread here about Academics recently, and no wonder some people were rather excited...
1, How do you know KP doesn't have the allegedly requisite technical expertise or background? 2, "technical" infers that an understanding of on-line communities depends upon primary knowledge of programming et al. "Communities" per se are based around the social relationship between people regardless of forum or medium. In the same way .... in order to drive my car ... I need to know how to interact with all the other people on the road ... and know how to control my car to do that. I don't really need to know what that red wire under the dashboard does. (what does it do? apart from deliberately catching on my key ring every time I get out).

All of this may of course be rubbish ... I know nothing about on line communities (though I do work for a company that designed Oracle's Think.com .... which is, I think, still the largest secure community in the world with membership in the millions).

Have a nice day

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Bassic
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 06:37 AM

My sentiments exactly C-flat, I think I have made some very good friends here. To the academics I say thanks for sharing your knowlege and please be patient with those of us whoes enjoyment in life comes from slightley less rarified heights! To the comedians amongst us, I say thank you for keeping a smile on our faces, especially when times are hard. To the permanently disgruntled and grumpy, I am sorry for your loss (of humour!) and I hope you feel better soon!

To answer your questions KP,

Though I quite understand C-flats points about noticing the extreems first, I have to say that I felt comfortable very quickly. It did help knowing one or two Mudcat "regulars" in person before I started looking on the site but I think I would have been an easy process anyway. I started looking on the site just over a year ago and came in right in the middle of the "Twillinsgate" Sagas and was completely hooked, just from the sheer entertainment value!!
I have explored most areas of the site now and found my way round fairly easily, but I have yet to explore the DT as I am not a singer. (I want online tunes, in standard notation, with sound please :-)
I enjoy the "local" element of the Cat, the fact that we have so many members in my part of the world (Yorks)and it makes organising local events and exchanging information SO much easier. However, I also greatly enjoy the international aspect of the Mudcat and I feel I have to consult now on matters of importance,(visits to the Doctor, Dentist, PC world, Music Shops etc etc) otherwise I would upset a great many people!! *grin*.
So, is it a community? It certainly feels like one to me. Its like walking down an "old fashioned" terrace of houses, front doors always open, conversations drifting out of open windows, kettle always "on the boil", jumpers for goal posts...................aaaaahhhhhhhhhh

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: tartan babe
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 06:09 AM

My first experience of the internet and chatting was awsome. I was bowled over by being able to talk to people from all over the world. Then along came mudcat and I was truly stunned at being able to talk about music with like minded people.

Once it's in your mind, being in a virtual community for me feels no different to being in a real one. I love Mudcat and feel a sense of loss everytime it's down. I have friends that are as real to me here as in my non virtual life.

It took a day or so to become familiar with mudcat and the navigation system, but it's quite simple really. I do get slightly scared of posting sometimes. Some posts make me quite mad and I really just want to post back, but I know that it's just not worth the agro.

I love the BS threads, they make the community more real. If it were just about music, things would become stilted and samey. This means that people can bring their real lives into their virtual one.

I've wittered on for long enough now, thanks Max you're great!!!!

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 06:07 AM

There's a new diagnosis going round...St. Mudcatitus Dance...usually brought about in a state of withdrawal exhibited by twitching...this seems to be a *disorder* exclusive to the phenonmenon known simply as the "Mudcat" hence the "St. Mudcatitus Dance" appellation.:-)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: C-flat
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 05:54 AM

Because at first you only notice the extremes of Mudcat it can take a while to settle into it. There are some extremely clever and academic regulars, some outrageously funny regulars and the occassional outrageously unpleasant regular but, because this site has a common theme, one which most of us here share a passion for, you keep returning and, in doing so, begin to recognise and be familiar with dozens of names. After a while you begin to feel that you know these people, their views, and wether you'd enjoy an evening in their company.
I know there are those who would be happy to lose the BS element from this site but I do think it's instrumental in building a sense of community here and is a shortcut to getting to know one another.
I've never been a member of an on-line community before or ever visited a chat-room and I now realise how lucky I was to stumble across Mudcat having since had a look around at what else is out there.
There's rarely a day now that I don't look in and I get twitchy when the site is down for any length of time.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 04:25 AM

I just jumped straight in... Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, and find I'm there first eating all the chocolate. I was a bit nervous at first, because this was my first ever forum and my first ever chat room.

I enjoyed it because it discusses the things I know about - music, literature, farts, cats, the abolition of the melodeon, that sort of thing. But then I got into some of the more personal stuff, people asking for help on certain issues, things I'd had experience with, and it was good to a) share my knowledge and suggestions and b) know that there was someone out there who had gone through the same as me and survived it. Those experiences ranged from abusive partners to writers' block, via knitting and garden design.

It took me a while to start my first thread, but it rapidly became popular and that encouraged me to post more and more ludicrous items. From being nervous and tentative at the beginning, I now find I can be my real self and as outspoken as I am in person. My interests are shared, my opinion sought and my beliefs respected.

I've had my share of flames and trolls, if you don't feed the trolls they shut up, but the flamers are different. They get personal. Were I made of fainter hearted stuff, that would have put me off. One particular GUEST has the ability to turn any inoccuous comment into a personal diatribe, but occasionally they expose themselves for the sad, 'Mensa' reject that they are.

One thing that has particularly impressed me is the chat room. People actually chat about stuff other than sexual organs. Whether this is because they "knew" each other beforehand, or not I don't know, but it does seem that every other chatroom I've frequented is nothing but a forum for asking for, or advertising sexual favours and tendencies. Mudchatters and catters flirt outrageously but they don't all push it in your face (unless you pay extra). The humour is earthy and irreverent, but manages to stay mostly on the inoffensive side of the line (just). It may be that it's because it's a members only chat room and that if you are a member of Mudcat, it's because you want to talk about the same things. I'm on other forums that deal with one subject, but that's all they deal with. They are a tool, a means to an end; whereas, with all the sharing of common experiences and music, discussions on life, the universe and bodhrains, Mudcat is a proper community. The fact that we have had gatherings proves this. Many of us have gathered together in one place and shared what we have in common.

I've found some great new friends here, I'm not sorry that MSN is closing their chatrooms, I've never liked 'wet pussies' that much any way - they smell funny and leave muddy footprints over the kitchen floor.

But like others, I miss 'talking' with my 'virtual' friends when the site is down, just like I miss talking to the people I spend my reality life with. The fact that I've met many of those 'virtual' friends, makes it more frustrating that I can't chat with them via the 'Cat.

Max has created the most amazing place here. I don't think he ever envisaged this when he started it. Life would be duller and blander were it to disappear.

LTS

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Gurney
Date: 27 Sep 03 - 02:49 AM

I felt a bit like Kendall, from reading the erudite posts.
Then I remembered a certain near-genius who couldn't keep his shoelaces tied... so I lurked a while..
Then I requested words, and got a reply immediately (I didn't thank him/her, but thanks now)..
Then I did a few tentative posts, when I was sure I was right...
Then I had some disagreements with other members, which inhibited me somewhat..
Then I replied to a troller (I'd never heard the term, but as an angler recognised the reference).. And enjoyed the barney..
Now I feel that the members here are a good bunch, and I feel as if I'm in a BIG community. And I miss MC when I can't get on.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 09:34 PM

I first visited The Mudcat Cafe about three years ago. I was made to feel so unwelcome that I became severely depressed, quit my job, left my wife, and drank myself to death. Then I learned that it's not how much you know about music that counts, it's how much you know about farts. Now that I've become reasonably adept at talking about farts I find that I'm very welcome and can even get by with posting remarkably stupid shit like this message and nobody asks me to leave. Bet it would be a lot of fun if I just weren't dead.

Bruce

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 09:31 PM

Damn! it's really "Foolestroupe"

with the internal "e" as well

can't even type properly myself at times... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 09:29 PM

I was jesting, a bit - I don't know any clam diggers - at least not any male ones ... :-)

Getting REALLY SERIOUS! the ability to pass the test to get into Mensa has no realtion to what employment one has....

and, please, the name is not "Foolstroup" but "Foolstroupe" with the last "e" -

The correct spelling is important for copyright reasons...

My friends often tell me that I am not serious enough... :-)

but I am a very literal person... :-)

Robin
Author of The Fooles Troupe

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: kendall
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 09:15 PM

Foolstroup, you take me too literally. I've known a hundred clam diggers and not one was a member of Mensa. It was an exaggeration, that all.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 08:52 PM

The first Mensa convention, I went to, what with all the finest minds gathered, nobody had remembered to buy the milk for the coffee... :-)

And yes, Mensa even has Clam diggers and housewives!

I find internet communities useful.

Usage of the terms Trolling & Flames started off in the usenet newsgroups, about 2 decades ago.

No offence intended kitchenpiper but,
If you are doing formal study "for a masters, this module I am studying online communities and online learning" I am appalled - unless that sort of basic material has yet not been covered, but it is so basic that it should have been supplied within the first week or two - at the standards of the Instution initiating your study process...

Also, I am rather bemused that one is allowed to do a Masters level in an area of technical expertise with no relevant previous background... no wonder we had the rather volatile thread here about Academics recently, and no wonder some people were rather excited...

Many years ago, I once received a phone call from someone who had been given my name as some sort of "expert". He was doing a first year Uni subject on comparing the uses, pros & cons, etc of several computing languages. Now the students had not used (written code in!) most of those languages, and for some of them included in the assignment, that Uni did not even have the ability to run the code such as things like Smalltalk , which at the time was a rather esoteric language... I had the reputation of being able to read and make sense of code for over 30 prog languages at the time (I called that interest part of my 'hobby'), and I was very ready to admit that I had not had access to run code for some of them... most of my "knowledge" was gained by reading reference texts, the existence of which had not even been given to the students as "background material"...

Sorry, I'll get orf me soapbox nnnnow...

Robin

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Nancy King
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 08:44 PM

P. S. --

JustaPicker -- You may not sing, but you sure can pick! Your cuts on the Mudcat CDs are anything BUT insignificant!

And to those who haven't bought their Mudcat CDs yet -- do it now! They really are terrific, and each sale helps keep the Mudcat going!

Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 08:43 PM

JP, someone who plays like you doesn't need to sing! What? You want it all?

Incidentally, there is a local Juneau boy - just turned 13, a shy, quiet kid almost 6 feet tall who has had an acoustic guitar for almost a year now and he's fingerpicking up a storm, things like (ah ha!) 'Don't Think Twice'. So I lent him one of the CDs I got from JP. He is enthralled. I have every expectation of hearing him play 'Buckdancer's Choice' one of these days, and a lot of the other cuts. If he continues as he is, he's going to be remarkably good. His phrasing and his control already are. (And no. He doesn't sing.)

By the way, my own favorites on that CD have shifted somewhat- I love the arrangements in your covers. (Who is *your* Joanne Shaw? Is that Joanne Shaw Taylor?)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Nancy King
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 08:39 PM

I was a "lurker" for a long time before actually signing up, partly because I tended to look at Mudcat at work (during slow times on duty in the library) but couldn't join from there because of the cookie thing. When I found myself wanting to post from home, I signed up, and haven't looked back.

Early on, when I was still posting as a GUEST, I received a rather sharp answer to a wrong guess I made in answer to a query. Jeez, I thought, no need to be snotty about it! I soon discovered, however, that most 'Catters are not only knowledgeable and helpful, but also patient and funny. I've learned a lot, gotten some great advice, found words to many songs, laughed a lot, and made some real friends.

Thanks, Folks!
Nancy

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 07:00 PM

I've moved around a lot because of my (former-now retired) job, so I've cultivated the habit of becoming at home quickly. I was comfortable here very soon after I began, I guess primarily because my opinions, when I ventured to express them, were either welcomed or, at the minimum, not put down. I did have to be told several times about feeding the trolls, but I think I've mostly gotten over that. This is generally a very pleasant place to spend a couple of hours each day.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 06:39 PM

well, I had been a member of a 'folk community' for years before the WWW/Internet (they are NOT the same thing) came along, and I knew how wide ranging the interests of folkies were, so when the database was expanded and made part of the Mudcat Cafe, I was ready. It was like opening a BIG window.

I think it is VERY important to understand that people's minds work differently and that not everyone 'sees' these names in the threads as having the same degree of reality. Some folks are much slower to interact and respond to names as real people, and have difficulty dealing with issues without voice and body language to help define what is happening.

Yes...as an 'open' forum, this place is sometimes a target for craziness that you might not see in a group where we only met face-to-face, but it has led to LOTS of **real** interaction and a community that encompasses the world now....With all these positive benefits, the little blips of malcontents and critics have been 'relatively' minor hassles, no matter how tedious they are at the time.

We almost ALWAYS greet obvious newcomers with friendliness and we fret when someone does NOT feel welcome. We are people, and subject to the same faults and the same virtues as people you meet every day...some are more to your liking than others. But here, they are in many ways easier to deal with (if you think carefully before typing..*grin*

I'm in my 7th year, and hope to be around for many more.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 05:59 PM

I've visited a fair nunber of sites people where people argue and sound off and exchange information - but this is the only one I've come across that I'd think of classing as a community based within the Internet.

The shared, if varied, interest in folkmusic (and certain qualities about folk music, especially it's collective aspect, and the absence of boundaries between performers and listeners) provides a basis which allows differences about other things to be aired without breaking things irreparably.

What brings us together and holds us together is more important than what pulls us apart, and I think that is necessaary for anything that can really be deemed a community in any setting.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 05:20 PM

JP, take off that hair shirt!:-)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: kitchen piper
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 04:51 PM

lol, I'm not a singer either!
Nope never heard the word troll. Yes heard the word flame.

Either trolling is an American term, or because I generally am in educational communities involving children, I've not heard the term.
I have come across trolls though, just never heard the term.

hey ho!

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 04:35 PM

Consistently insignificant.
Such a pity I don't sing. :-)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 04:18 PM

???? you are doing study of online communities and this is the *only* place you've encountered the term 'troll'?

Please! You have to be kidding - or trolling yourself! I think I learned about "trolls" withing about 30 seconds of getting on the internet. (humerous exageration)

And the mudcat - for all that people gripe - is for it's activity one of the lesser troll gathering spots I've encountered - and certainly there are less flames here then in many forums I read.

'troll' in internet terms is someone who deliberatley baits others or posts inflammatory remarks. 'to troll/trolling' is to try to get others to respond to such remarks.

and 'flaming' is unjustified/gratuitious critiscism and/or derogatory comments regarding a poster.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: kitchen piper
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 04:04 PM

I can define newbie - a person who is new to an online community. You become a newbie to each new community as you join. After a while, you're not new any more!

However the word troll is one I've only encountered here. I've a good idea of what one is, someone who is grumpy, a lot?

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 04:03 PM

I thought "this is a cool site" It was one of my first binternet experiences so I lurked for a bit looking for crazies. I found lots of them then jumped write in to the song concerts and the Welcome back Spaw Tavern. some time later I encountered my wife toe be. THe charming and beautiful loveable eccentric known as Carolc.

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: izzy
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:57 PM

Amazed to find there were other people with interests like mine in the world. So many kindred spirits on Mudcat it's mindboggling.

I got nervous once when I encountered a troll, however --(you can put that in the "cons" area of your paper:;)

Subject: RE: How did you feel as a newbie on Mudcat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 03 - 03:48 PM

I can't see how anyone posting as "Busbitter frae Saltcoats Scotland" can assert "I can only speak English"...