Origin: Cob a coalin

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: Flash Company
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 11:27 AM

I heard this from The Oldham Tinkers, but many years later when I sang a Line from it in a North Manchester office where I was temping, one of the older ladies on the staff (complete non-folkie)
said 'I used to sing that when I were little'. It has obviously existed in oral tradition in the Middleton area of North Manchester in the last 60 years or so.

FC

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 10:19 AM

I came across this old thread of mine, searching for the origins of Cob a coalin.

Since it is time to sing it again I wondered if anybody had any further info.

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 07 Nov 03 - 02:36 PM

It looks as if the appearance of the Pace Egging bits of the song only appear in Harry's version. Does anybody have any other view or any other source or evidence?

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 05:47 PM

Thanks again, their seems lots of evidence for bits of cob a coalin.

Does anybody have evidence of the complete song as it appears on record, in Harry's book and as many of us can recall actually hearing Harry sing it, beyond this context?

Was it collected or remembered in its entirety.

Oh and buy the way Liz Jones askes to be remembered to Mary, they spent time on Oakwood Governors some years ago.

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 04:05 PM

Mischef Night is Novemeber 4th.

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 03:19 PM

I remember, when I lived in the North West ( Chorlton, Manchester and before that, Sale) that there was a tradition of children going out on Mischief Night ( somewhere between Halloween and Bonfire Night) and causing mild mayhem.I remember our gate being taken off its hinges and left down the road for us to find the next morning.
I wonder if the song had any links with all this sanctioned juvenile activity?
Mary

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST,stevethesqueeze
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 05:36 AM

Children in lancashire sang this song, or close relatives, when i was a child in the fifties. I remember doing it myself although I thought it was sang on the night before 5th november.

best wishes to you all

stevethesqueeze

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: Little Robyn
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 11:59 PM

We used to sing Holly Bears here in the mid-late 60s as well.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 12:48 PM

Wow, thats a long way. In a similar vein, I seem to remember The Holly Bairs(?) a Berry, which is on the Watersons Frost & Fire being collected in California or Australia

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: Little Robyn
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 12:14 AM

Joan Prior, a Lancashire lass by birth, used to sing it here in New Zealand back around 1966. I understood it was trad.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 06:01 PM

Thanks a lot Mary, whom I believe used to live near Chorlton.

You are spot on with the reference. We, my wife Liz and I, used to go to the Unicorn around '78 - '82 and also remember Harry singing it along with lots of other excellent stuff that he had collected and resurected.

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 05:47 PM

Hi Les in Chorlton,
I have Harry's Folk Songs & Ballads of Lancashire in front of me now, open at the Cob-o'-coalin' song. If it is the same book that you are referring to, it says,the words and tune are traditional, arranged by Harry. 'To this day children in the Oldham area sing a shortened version of this song and collect money for fireworks.' The book was published in 1973, so the latter comment may no longer be true.
I remember Harry singing this many a time while I was a member of the Unicorn Club in Church Street Manchester. If my memory serves me right, he said he learnt it as a child in Failsworth. IMHO it has all the elements of a vestigial pace egg song with a bit of the surreal thrown in ( the umbrella & pepper pots). Typical of kids!
All the best.
Mary Humphreys

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST,Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 05:09 PM

Thanks, I picked up the threads you listed through Mudcat, although one link is no longer live.

I guess someone from the folk community of Oldham and other parts of Greater Manchester will know a bit more. Did Harry knit his version from bits of others or is it a genuine complete survival of the Pace Egg, reborn for Bonfire Night?

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 03:35 PM

I might add that Roud's index (No. 9234) lists only one version, a BBC recording from Hampshire in 1960.

Mick

Subject: RE: Cob a coalin
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 03:32 PM

I don't know Harry's source, but see thread Lyr Add:Cob O'Coaling.

Mick

Subject: Cob a coalin
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 03 Nov 03 - 03:10 PM

Whilst strteching my tonsils around this I checked it out in Harry Boadman's book of Lancashire songs. Does anybody know where Harry got it from?