BS: Great Canadian Political Quote

Subject: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Willie-O
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 08:42 AM

So just as the CRAP, I mean Canadian Alliance party, is trying to show they're open-minded enough to absorb the Tories but not their Progressive appellation, this CA MP Larry Spencer, the "Family Values critic" who is a world-class conspiracy-theory homophobe wanker, opens his big fat mouth and practically blows the whole deal. (Ironic implication unplanned but welcome). Up with this, even Stephen "I hate everything" Harper (the CA leader) can't put. Spencer immediately loses his portfolio, such as it is (I thought everyone in CRAP was a "family values critic"), and has to go sit in a corner by himself for awhile.

The whole schmoggle put Scott Brison, a prominent Tory MP who is openly gay and has been very supportive of the merger, in a tough spot, leading him to reaffirm (sort of):

"My faith has been challenged and tempered but I am still clinging to my increasingly tepid support," said Brison.

(Source: www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/11/27/alliance_spencer031127 )

Spoken like a Canadian MP, Scott. You might want to find something more sturdy to cling to, though.

I think Mr Brison has a great post-merger future in the Liberal Party, where tepid fence-sitting is the specialty.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 09:57 AM

Ha! Got a great laugh out of that quote! Sounds like those great Democrats like Tom Daschle or even Teddy Kennedy last summer when he was campaigning for the Bush Medicare bill. Or when he was campaigning for the Bush No Child Left Behind act. Or the Bush tax cut....

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 10:09 AM

They can call it the Canadian Alliance Party if they want to (it ain't that yet... the vote is still to be taken by what's left of the federal Tories), but it's still the same old group of bigots, religious wackos, snobs, and general anti-social misfits it ever was as the Reform Party. When they where first forming, they took in anybody as a member who wanted to run in any riding, with not much checking into what they really stood for or who they really were. Now they'll have a bugger of time cleaning up their image. Lots of closet Spencers and Keegstras to root out.

I definitely understand the western provinces' feelings of discontent and resentment over the federal government being mainly controlled by Quebec and Ontario (or should I say South Quebec and South Ontario), but I wish they had a better alternative to vote for than that crew.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Willie-O
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 10:24 AM

Yeah, and it's interesting that they're not even kicking Spencer out of the party, so far. I am also amazed that he's the elected MP from the Regina area--which is supposedly the most left-leaning part of still-tepidly-socialist Saskatchewan.

Voters of Regina, what the hell were you thinking? And what are you thinking NOW?

The Reform/CA has always had a soft spot for their wackos. Remember Bob Ringsma, who got the Reforms some bad publicity for his bigoted remarks a few years ago? They didn't fire him, Deb Gray said they had a caucus meeting and all said "We love you, Bob, now what are you gonna do?"...very touching it was.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 01:54 PM

Willie-O, a poll reported yesterday on the CBC noted that 63% of Regina residents were of the same mind regarding gay marriages as Larry Spencer, so he was reflecting the majority views of his constituents. This area is within Canada's bible belt, so I was not surprized regarding the attitudes professed. They may have espoused cooperative views regarding some things and the area may be the birthplace of medicare, but social attitudes are still "conservatively provincial". I have no idea if Tommy Douglas is rolling over in his grave. Some background on Larry Spencer provided by the Caucus of CRAP.

"Besides his regular MP duties, Larry Spencer , the Canadian Alliance Member for Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre, also serves as one of the Official
Opposition's Deputy Justice Critics. Before being elected, he was Pastor of the Discovery Baptist Church. After graduating from Sheldon High School in Sheldon, Missouri, Larry went to work for Hallmark Cards in Kansas City. It was during his 8 years as a "card shark" that he married his high school sweetheart, Sue Brown."

In 1967, Larry returned to the land and then, in 1974, he responded to a request to become a church planner for the Regina area. He led the way in establishing two congregations in Regina, one in Moose Jaw and another in Swift Current. Larry's educational background includes a Diploma of Theology from Southern Baptist College in Walnut Ridge, AR; he also attended Metropolitan Jr. College, Draughn's Business College in Kansas City, MO. Welcome to the Alliance Caucus, Larry!"

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: GUEST,pdq
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 02:33 PM

Maybe, if y'all up north ask them real nice, the British will take you back. You know, kinda like they say in basketball..."no harm, no foul"?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 02:59 PM

A better idea might be sending some of ya all back were ya come from.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 05:25 AM

The burning question in my mind regards what Manly will do... or NOT do. Will he take the ambassadorship to "ya all"-land or will he take the flight ? I recall a quote from one of the greats who got ripped apart in the back rooms of Ottawa in almost the exact same way as Manly. Only the names have changed. As Turner was walking out of Chretien's office after getting the final knife in the back, Jean offered him the very same job. It is reported that he never broke stride nor posture while replying, "Fuck off." Is Manly man enough to fuck off ? Or will he choose to leave this bridge unburnt and take his seat among the common sheep ?

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Willie-O
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 06:57 AM

Metch, I don't really buy that "majority views" comment. Spencer wasn't just talking about gay marriage. Lots of people are uncomfortable with that without espousing the views Spencer clearly stated. He was saying, to a reporter, that homosexuality should never have been legalized, and that they "recruit" little boys in locker rooms, and have a worldwide conspiracy to put their operatives in positions of influence in government, judiciary and churches so they can subvert normal society blah blah blah.   And thus, if he had his druthers they'd not only go back in the closet, but would be in jail. He made an analogy that probably isn't his own, the type that comes from an amateur debater who has heard of logic but hasn't really grasped it:
(paraphrased)
"If Colgate toothpaste shortened your life by 15 years, you bet the government would make it illegal. Homosexual men have a shorter life expectancy than others due to AIDS/HIV and other (unspecified) aspects of their lifestyle. Therefore homosexuality should be illegal".

Yeah, right. Africans have a shorter life expectancy than North Americans, too, lets make Africa illegal.

He also specifically mentioned Svend Robinson (well known gay MP, favourite punching bag for rightists), and said he could be straight if he wanted to change, trade the wrong for the right...in short, he just doesn't believe in sexual orientation.

Today, Peter Mackay, to his modest credit, is saying he would not sign Spencer's nomination papers for the next election if he (MacKay) happens to end up as the leader of the new party. Harper is refusing to say! Harper is not known as a shrinking violet, so I guess he is trying not to upset (more than they are now) all Spencer's fellow fruitcakes in the CA when he wants their support for his leadership campaign.

Bill

As for Manley, I think he'll take the job. He wants it pretty bad, I don't think his pride stands a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Cluin
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 02:10 PM

Manley didn't seriously think he had a chance to take the leadership right now, did he? Nobody else did, no matter what impression Chrétien might have given him. He should probably take the ambassador position and hang out for a while, waiting... waiting... waiting... like Paul Martin did. Took him a while to decide to take his marbles and go home, till they were good & ready to call him back to the playground on his terms.


Anyway, the more important observation I think is.... Isn't Craig Oliver looking more and more like a turtle? I figure he's hoping to take over the CTV National news anchor job from Lloyd when they finally pack him away in mothballs. Remember how he went after the PM with a vengeance about packing it in last year in the CTV interview while Lloyd sat back in shocked silence? But it's gonna be a battle between himself, Sandie Rinaldo and Tom Clark. My money's on Tom... such a good repartee between him and Mike Duffy, joking around like old drinking buddies and all.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 05:55 PM

Point taken Willie-O, although I admit, I was being facetous, but only just, regarding my unkind remark about the good people of Regina-Lumsden-Lake Centre, when I said Larry was "only reflecting the views of his voters".

Homophobia runs deep within the religous right and the left there and is exclusive to neither. I have been exposed to enough of the good old boys of Saskatchewan from the full political spectrum, to know that if you push a few buttons, the veneer of tolerance and civility cracks and quite often reveals some very ugly crap. However, to give some credit, I doubt Larry paraded the full extremity of his views when he was running for office.

I've have been exposed to enough dear old Saskatchewan aunties too, who would still argue, "But Dear, he's such a nice man....he stands for the values the family and he's a minister too!" regardless of what he spewed. Larry would have to be caught in front of them with a chainsaw in his hands and body parts scattered about, before you could shake their viewpoint or vote. And they would still declare," I don't understand, he was such a lovely man". Within our family, we used to call it prairie brain damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 07:40 PM

Why would we want the British to "take us back"? Their troops did a great job defending our borders in 1812-14, but I don't think we need them for that any more. Well, I hope not, anyway...

As for the political situation...it will remain ridiculous until all these anachronistic dinosaurs we call "political parties" are abolished forever, and replaced by something that actually works, like an elected assembly of independent individuals who are not enslaved to some corrupt party machine, and who work together instead of at cross purposes.

There is no major political party that deserves anyone's vote.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Willie-O
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 08:25 PM

Sure Cluin, whatever.   The Craig Oliver fan page from CTV says "Every newshound interested in the intricacies of Canada's political theatre" knows him...guess I'm not a newshound then, cause I never EVER (almost) watch TV news, except on election nights. I'm not one of the holier-than-thou TV abstainers, I watch it way too much but stick to the serious content. You know, Buffy. Frankly it baffled me when all the networks started promoting their newsreaders like they were rock stars. My favourite was "Pamela Wallin is like an alien that you are glad came to visit your planet"--what the hell?

Speaking of the Slayer, I learned a useful expression earlier this year. You could say that Larry Spencer's political career is Buffy-dead. He appears to be dead and buried, but he might come back to life later in the season...

As for the demons that lurk in the Saskatchewan psyche, they're everywhere else too, Metch. Why, I even find myself thinking things that are just plain wrong and intolerant sometimes, and I am the very model of civility and tolerance in a pragmatic leftist package.

However, no one has elected me to anything, and whether they had or not, I know not to blab my baser thoughts to the media...

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: gnu
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 08:27 AM

Cluin... ???? ...took his marbles home ? ...his terms ? I thought it was general knowledge that his position as leader was secured when he was given an extended vacation during which his only job was to stay out of the public eye. And his next job is to do nothing at all except "good" things with the $8B warchest until the next election. Daycare, medicare, a chicken in every pot and then announce a vote, which he will win by a landslide. Then... hold on, if you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 07:42 AM

First of all...I do not understand so-called western alienation at all. Secondly, Peter Makay is getting just what he deserved. He is a perfect fit for the alliance..a constant hidden agenda. If the Tories were smart they would disassociate themselves from this lot of yahoos asap.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Willie-O
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 04:00 PM

Well, David Orchard was saying yesterday (OK, I accidentally watched some news, sue me for inconsistency) that his lawsuit against the merger has been misunderstood. It's not to stop the merger as such, but to allow those who wish to maintain the Progressive Conservatives as a separate party, to do so. Aside from wanting to be beautiful losers for the rest of time, I can't think why they'd actually bother. All they would be would be a speed bump for most of the current moderate PC's to hop over on their way to join the Liberals.

But good luck to 'em. I reckon the Progressive Conservatives are going the way of the liberal Republicans (remember them? there were some...starting with Abe Lincoln)

It's about power.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Cluin
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 04:15 PM

Always thought Progressive Conservative sounded like an oxymoron anyway.

The Liberals under Martin wil likely swing a bit more to the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:07 PM

Here's an interesting development...a national poll

http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/12/02/cbc_poll031202

shows that the combined support for the hypothetical "Untied Right" party is only...wait for it...

12.6%

, a full 5% behind the NDP for Gawds sake. In other words, exactly what the CA's and PC's were each polling a few weeks ago.

Of course the wording of the poll doesn't make a lot of sense, it's one of those "if the election were held today" questions, asking if you would choose to vote for a party that doesn't exist today. Duh. But it sure suggests that Harper (who looks like a shoe-in for the leadership, by default) will have a lot of work to do just to get the combined voteshare of the PC's and CA...which was of course the reason for the whole deal! Then they can lose respectably, and make a new opposition with Harper as leader--say, why are they bothering?   

I reckon the awesome Paul Martin backroom machinery will now turn its attention to picking up disenchanted moderate Tory MP's and voters...

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Metchosin
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 02:25 AM

Surprise, surprise, Mr. Brison has crossed the floor to become a Liberal....never could see too much difference between the Conservatives and Liberals myself, so I don't believe he will have to embrace any radical changes in doctrine, particularly with Martin at the helm.

Subject: RE: BS: Great Canadian Political Quote
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 10:29 AM

He'll have to buy a red tie and throw out all his blue ones, though.