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Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song
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Subject: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Haruo Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:38 AM I have just put English and Esperanto versions of the Mennonite Christmas song "Nun ist sie erschienen, die himmlische Sonne" in my online hymnal, but I have been unable to find any information on the putative author (W Horn) or translators (P C Hiebert and David Letkeman), nor on the tune, which the 1958 Mennonite Brethren Church Hymnal, an often untrustworthy guide, ascribes to J R Murray. Any information on these folks or this tune (or any other tunes the song is sung to) as well as, especially, the German text, are most eagerly sought. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:02 AM Haruo - can you post the German text here? Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Haruo Date: 09 Dec 03 - 02:39 AM No, Joe, all I have is the first line, "Nun ist sie erschienen, die himmlische Sonne". That's one of the things I'm looking for. I presume there are German Mennonite songbooks out there that have it, but the only book I know of that does is a cookbook (!) which I have been unable to locate to date. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Nigel Parsons Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:56 AM It probably doesn't help, but it's available as Harp Music item No6 Nigel |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:18 AM Found: http://www.mccscs.com/West%20Coast%20Mennonite%20Chamber%20Choir.htm But: HTTP/1.1 404 Resource not found [bad luck] Try the website of the West Coast Mennonite Chamber Choir, there you find the titles of some hymnals. Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Haruo Date: 10 Dec 03 - 01:28 AM I found the webpage that mentioned the cookbook again, and sent them the following note just now: I am the editor of TTT-Himnaro Cigneta, the largest (and, I hope, the best!) online Esperanto-language hymnal. I recently posted there my Esperanto version of "Nun ist sie erschienen", and am seeking information about this song, including the original German text (my translation was made from an English version by P C Hiebert and D Letkeman), the original tune (if different from the one I posted a MIDI of) or the composer of the tune I posted (if this is the original tune, I find it unlikely that it is by Murray, as my source indicates).We'll see. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:13 PM Hi, Haruo - I thought I might find something in an old Lutheran hymnal, but no dice. I did find this (click) at the Robokopp site, a 1912 Wisconsin synod hymnal, all in German (robokopp is in Kenosha, so it's a natural). I looked in a 1917 hymnal from the United Lutheran Church in America, and found one that goes like this: Now that the sun is beaming bright Once more to God we pray That He, the uncreated Light May guide our souls this day. No sinful word, no deed of wrong, Nor thoughts that idly rove But simple truth be on our tongue And in our hearts be love And while the hours in order flow O Christ securely fence Our gates, beleaguered by the foe The gate of every sense And grant that to thine honor, Lord Our daily toil may tend That we begin it at they word and in thy favor end. Melody is Lancaster, c.m. Note the following hymn at Cyberhymnal: Now that the daystar glimmers bright We suppliantly pray That He, the uncreated Light, May guide us on our way. No sinful word, nor deed of wrong, Nor thoughts that idly rove, But simple truth be on our tongue, And in our hearts be love. And while the hours in order flow, O Christ, securely fence Our gates, beleaguered by the foe, The gate of every sense. And grant that to Thine honor, Lord, Our daily toil may tend; That we begin it at Thy Word, And in Thy favor end. To God the Father glory be, And to His only Son, And to the Spirit, One and Three, While endless ages run. Words: Attributed to Ambrose of Milan (Iam lucis orto sidere); translated from Latin to English by John Henry Cardinal Newman, 1842. Does this the same source as "Nun is sie erschienen"? Seems to me that it well could be. Then again, maybe not. There are parallels in the first and second verses. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:15 PM Tried several versions of Now it has appeared, the heavenly star, and in the present tense as well. Did find someone else looking for it, on a German website. One suggested it was fairly new. No luck. Not in Robokopp or Hymns and Carols of Christmas. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 11 Dec 03 - 03:33 AM Guess what I found! A hymnal for the Mennonite parishes in my home state from 1856, in our Old Catalogue. I've ordered it and hope to be able to report tomorrow what I found. But be aware - the chances are 50:50. The hymns Joe has given here are identical and a translation of Ambrose's Latin hymn which seems not connected with Christmas. The metaphor of Jesus Christ = Light of the World = Sun is well used in Christian poetry and mostly used with morning songs. Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 11 Dec 03 - 04:13 AM The book was brought to me sooner than I thought but: Bad tidings [bad luck] - the song isn't in it. I found another one from 1842 in a library far away and hope to get it by post next week. Sorry Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Haruo Date: 14 Dec 03 - 01:09 AM I have some information to report but no time to report it. Mary Louise VanDyke at the Dictionary of American Hymnology sent me the following: Thank you for your query. I can respond to part of it now; my reply may be in several installments.and Darlene Schroeder at the Mennonite Historical Museum in Kansas sent me a huge PDF image of the German text from an undated old hymnal (she guesses 1903, I think older), 2 stanzas only. Unfortunately it's all in Fraktur and will take me awhile to decipher. So it looks like it is late 1800s or at least pre-Great-War. Still not clear whether Horn was Mennonite, or merely popular with them ("Evangelisches" sounds unmennonitisch to me, but I don't know). And his first name "William", if he was 16 when he immigrated and spent most of his life writing German I would expect his name to be Wilhelm; again, I don't know. I agree with Wilfried that the Sun = Jesus imagery is too stock a Christian item to allow identification of the hymn with the Ambrose/Newman attribution or the Howard. Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 14 Dec 03 - 06:27 AM Haruo - William = Wilhelm. If you have problems decyphering Fraktur send me a copy (gif, jpeg or bmp, e-mail address in Member Photos and Info) or by snail-mail to Wilfried Schaum, M.A. Lutheranlage 13 61169 Friedberg Germany Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 14 Dec 03 - 06:39 AM Found a Mennonite community in Frankfurt am Main and phoned them. The song in question is not in the Mennonite Hymnal. Continuing search Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 14 Dec 03 - 07:00 AM In the Library of Congress: Gebet- und Banklieder für Erweckungs- und Gabetsversammlungen [read faulty by the digitalizing machine] Gebet- und Danklieder für Erweckungs- und Gebetsversammlungen [correct German form in bold] LC Control Number: unk84048073 Type of Material: Book (Print, Microform, Electronic, etc.) Brief Description: Horn, William. Bd. und Rev. [from old catalog] Gebet- und Banklieder für Erweckungs- und Gabetsversammlungen. Cleveland, Ohio., Verlagshaus der Evangelischen Gemeinschaft, Lauer & Post Agenten, c1885. [vi], 184 p. cm. Mabe it's in there? Wilfried |
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Subject: ADD: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Haruo Date: 17 Dec 03 - 10:49 PM Two more missives from Mary Louise VanDyke: In researching Horn and his hymn, I do not think we can label him Mennonite. Although his hymns appear in Mennonite collections they occur more often in German Evangelical Reformed contexts. I believe he was a Bishop in the Evangelical Church, not in the Mennonite Church. The hymn was indexed for us from a Mennonite collection titled THE YOUTH HYMNARY, 1956.and In THE YOUTH HYMNARY, 1956 there are two stanzas in German and English of Nun Ist Sie Erschienen. The text citation is "W.Horn, Tr. H. J. L, 1954" and the music citation is "James R. Murray". The German text isWilfried, can you propose any emendations of the German text she gives? Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 18 Dec 03 - 04:17 AM Haruo - here the corrections: 1. ... Darum trocknet die Thraenen [old orthography, now:] Traenen 2. ... "Glaubt und lebet" so heist's [missing s:] heisst's REFRAIN: ... In Christo dem Retter, Ist [small i after the comma:] ist Instead of the vowels ae, oe, ue the German keyboard has ä, ö, ü, but all persons abroad should use these solutions, since the little dots above the umlauts have originated out of a former e. The double s in some cases is written ß, also missing on non-German keyboards. This letter is a ligature of two forms of the letter s (long and round; the name S-Z is misleading]. So you should use the double ss (the German speaking Swiss do it, too). Congratulations for your successful search All the best wishes for a merry Christmas and a happy new year Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Haruo Date: 18 Dec 03 - 11:48 PM Thanks, Wilfried. Personally I disagree with you that "all persons abroad" should use ae, oe, ue instead of ä, ö, ü, and ss instead of ß (where appropriate). "May", perhaps, but not "should". I think if you know how to make the proper characters appear, where you are located shouldn't be an issue. Certainly when I learned my German—in the United States, which I presume counts as "abroad" in your terms—I would quite properly have been given lower grades had I done as you counsel on geographical grounds. But certainly those who do not know how to get computers to produce umlaut vowels for them should feel free to use the digraphs, and ss is often safer than ß when unsure. BTW, do you spell the great poet's name "Göthe"? (In English, despite many other umlauted names, one never sees anything but "Goethe".) Sometime soon I'll post the German text in my hymnal, with your corrections. (I'll also compare it with the Fraktur mentioned previously to see if there were any changes in the German prior to 1956.) I think the Hiebert English version sings better than the 1956 H.J.L. one, what do you think? Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 19 Dec 03 - 12:10 AM Although the characters ä, æ, ñ, þ etc., will print in postings at Mudcat, the program will not allow their use in songs put into the DT, says Joe Offer; ö, for example, must be rendered as oe. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Dec 03 - 12:23 AM Yeah, I like my German with umlauts and my Irish with fadas and my Spanish with tildes. Dick Greenhaus tried using these characters in a recent edition of the Digital Tradition, and all the songs with special characters got scrambled. He hasn't found a Windows-based database program for the DT that has the flexibility and manageable size of the DOS version of AskSam, so he hasn't switched to a more modern database engine. I'm glad you got the song, Haruo. Say, Wilfried, how would you translate "jauchzet vor Wonne"? I understood all the rest of the song, but that phrase confused me. "Sing the glad story" is how it's stated in the English version, but that's certainly not a direct translation. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Haruo Date: 19 Dec 03 - 02:54 PM I don't mind ae/oe/ue by themselves, but in diphthongs I think they look stupid. E.g. "das Fraeulein". Haruo |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: Wilfried Schaum Date: 22 Dec 03 - 07:34 AM Haruo - a little misunderstanding: the substitution of ae &c. for ä &c. is only where the umlauts and ß are missing on the keyboard, or at the recipient's keyboard. As you see with your German text you give above, these letters were missing in the printer's letter case, too. Formerly most German words with a t-sound were written with initial th, but this usage was discarded in a reform at the beginning of the 20th century, except Thron, of greek origin, and mainly because of the monarchist times: Thou shalt not rattle at the Throne. You should keep the old orthography like Thraenen, may be you can give the new orthography in a note. Goethe vs Göthe: There are older references were the Poet Prince is spelled Göthe, but as usual his name is written in the form he used himself in his signature. In proper names old orthography is preserved for centuries; for the German equivalent of Smith there are known four different forms. Hiebert's translation is better, methinks; it runs more fluidly and sounds a lot more English. Joe - jauchzet, 2.p. pl. imp. praes. = jubilate; vor = before, but also, as here, = because of; Wonne = bliss, delight. In Latin it covers both lust (voluptas) and spiritual joy (laetitia). It is an older Word, not yet forgotten, but of a higher level of speech. It is found in poetry because it so conveniently ryhmes to Sonne (see evidence above, 1st verse). And now, dear friends, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Wilfried |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: GUEST,Johannes Date: 10 Dec 17 - 08:43 PM Nun ist sie erschienen 1.) Nun ist sie erschienen, die himmlische Sonne, und strahlt durch die irdische Nacht. Darum trocknet die Tränen und jauchzet vor Wonne, denn den Menschen ist Heil nun in Christo gebracht. Ref. Dem Heiland sei Ehre, und Friede der Welt. In Christo, dem Retter, ist Heil uns bestellt. 2.) Wie lag sie umnachtet in Tod und Verderben, die Menschheit, voll Sünde und Not! Doch durch Christus kann jeder die Seligkeit erben. “Glaubt und lebet!” so heisst’s nun, Gelobet sie Gott. Ref. Dem Heiland sei Ehre, und Friede der Welt. In Christo, dem Retter, ist Heil uns bestellt. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: leeneia Date: 13 Dec 17 - 11:25 AM YouTube has two, very similar versions of this. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UY89bJZ4CY The jaunty tune, which I think is in 6/8, is very nice. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: leeneia Date: 13 Dec 17 - 05:50 PM I have prepared sheet music using a YouTube of Hilda Buller playing. It's in 3/4 time. I think I'll ask Joe to post it. The original is in F, which explains why most people are not singing along. I'll have to figure out a lower key. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: leeneia Date: 13 Dec 17 - 06:05 PM I changed it to D, even though that changes the sonority some. There are a lot of D and A7's in the chords. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: GUEST Date: 08 Oct 19 - 11:40 PM I know the last post on this thread was two years ago, but I am very familiar with the hymn "Nun Ist Sie Erscheinen." It is beloved in the Mennonite area of Goessel, Kansas and harks back to the days of one-room schoolhouses and their Christmas Eve programs. Even today no Christmas celebration in Goessel would be complete without it. It is not in the Mennonite hymnbook but it is so important in this community that churches tape a copy inside each hymnbook. The Hilda Buller video is priceless. It sounds like her piano needs tuning, but the pacing and phrasing are just like I remember. Also it's my esperience that Mennonites in this area take their music seriously. Everyone in the congregation sings in four-part harmony. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 19 - 09:11 PM Also, the reason some of the people in the Hilda Buller video are not singing along is because they are not familiar with the song. If you notice all the older people are singing-- presumably the younger folks have not grown up in the community. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: GUEST,Sonya Date: 26 Nov 21 - 02:08 PM I stumbled onto this thread on my way to something else, but if you’re still looking for sheet music for Nun ist Sie Erschienen, I think the cookbook mentioned in the thread is the Schroeder family cookbook my aunt and I put together a number of years ago, and I would be happy to send a photocopy of the sheet music included in that cookbook. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: keberoxu Date: 28 Nov 21 - 02:37 PM Did anybody besides me check the website, hymnary dot org? First of all, the Author, Wilhelm Horn, has listed at that site, at least eighty entries in German. Some of these are probably duplicates in which one listing gives the opening line and another listing, the song title, should the two differ. The brief paragraph on the Author states that, once settled into the Protestant German-American diaspora, Horn was busy as an editor of several German-language periodicals, and the denomination is given as "Evangelical" . I will look further. Haruo is spot on, of course, specifying that Horn is a German-American immigrant. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: 'Nun ist sie erschienen' Xmas song From: keberoxu Date: 28 Nov 21 - 02:53 PM Joe Offer, how far are you from Fresno? A professor named Larry Warkentin, D. M. A., (Fresno Pacific University) published something related to this very hymn. His comments include the following: "a German-language hymn written in America by Wilhelm Horn in 1884" "This hymn was a favorite of German-Russian Mennonites arriving in America at the time." Warkentin's blurb does not clarify that Wilhelm Horn was a different denomination than Mennonite, so it rather adds to the confusion. |
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