BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek

Subject: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:25 AM

Just in... Saddam will be on the cover of the next issue of Newsweek... instead of Howard Dean. Admittably a newsworthy event, and who could be sad that the despicable Saddam, tyrant and despot, is being held in custody... I for one, am elated.

However...

With the track record of this administration's 'coordination' of Media, State apparatus, and big business... I'm subject to some wild conjectures... which of course, are absolutely unfounded...

So, when the local and national TV news dwells excessively on Bush's 'new and improved' approval rating due to the apprehension of Saddam, and already had started to paint Dean as 'angry, inexperienced, and erratic'... I started to wonder... (and yes, these were terms I would have used for Bush, rather than Dean...)

So... What if... this Saddam character is actually a double? ... and this great achievement is another media stunt? The real question, I guess, would be... Do you think that they could pull it off?

Now bear in mind that this is entirely hypothetical conjecture... OK?

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:15 AM

No, of course it was Osama Bin Laden who moved the strings of the puppets. He is the one to profit most from the capture of Saddam:
(1), the joy of the Americans about Saddam's capture will make them less attentive in Afghanistan and will makes his moving about easier.
(2), Saddam on the run for much longer could have threatened his number 1 position as a hero in the world of potential fighters for the cause of fundamentalist Islam.
(3), he wants Bush to win in 2004, for a president Bush is better for his own interests than Dean, for Bush as the evil incarnate from Osama's point of view is able to draw more fighters to Osama's ranks.

For these three reasons and, perhaps, a personal spite, he tipped off the Americans about Saddam's whereabouts knowing that the timing would be perfect for Bush's ratings (adding to the Baghdad trip; and who do you think ordered the Iraqui fighters to keep quiet on that day and not to fire any rockets??) and would prevent Dean being on Newsweek's cover.

That's why.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:18 AM

Wolfgang, the Bush administration would really rather you not mention the A word (Afghanistan) nor invoke the name of Osama. It reminds everyone they haven't been fighting a war on the terrorists who attacked us for a very long time.

And people are beginning to notice.

And say so, even on right wing cable news channels.

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 11:06 AM

Saddam also ousted Jesus Christ from the cover of Time.

Interesting, isn't it, that Osama Bin Laden's objectives and the Bush administration's objectives work together so admirably?

If nothing else could secure Bush's reelection in 2004, another major terrorist attack on the continental USA would certainly do it. Therefore, I think that the biggest risk to Americans will be if Bush appears to be in danger of losing. He and Saddam both want a continuing worldwide war between the forces of "good and evil" (as they see it, respectively). Having read about Karl Rove (Bush's chief election advisor) I know this: these guys will stop at nothing to win an election, because to Karl Rove winning is all that matters in life.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: GUEST,Skipjack K8
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 11:32 AM

And I thought this meant the photogenic Mr Dean, our own dear Celtic popster and thrash metal Mudcatter!

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: DougR
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 11:36 AM

Wolfgang: Usually I might not agree with your messages but also, usually, they are not so far out. This one boggles the mind though. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 12:10 PM

DougR:

Given the discipline of Wolfgang's usual mental processes I woudl hazard he is pulling your leg in asserting that it was Osama who tipped off the Army about Saddam's location.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 12:48 PM

Whi is Howrd Dean ? Seriously ? Is he engaged to Jlo or sleeping with Prince Charles ?

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 01:04 PM

Timing is everything. Just ask Bush's PR folks. Heck, they've probably known where Saddam was hiding for quite a while and just monitorin' the site to be sure he was still there, unknowingly waiting backstage for Bush's handlers to say, "Now!"...

Yer right, Little Hawk, the '04 election is in the eyes of Rove, and other Bushites, the biggie. In a second term they will be free to really show America's working class how little they think of them. And also look for Social Security, Medicare and other social programs to take a big hit. That's one way to deal with the looming retirment of the baby boomers. Let 'em eat cake in their retirment. Welcome to Boss Hog's America.

"We stole it and we're *entitled* to keep it. Screw off..."

And they dare use terms like "welfare mentality" when describing the poor!?!?!?...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:09 PM

Actually, I think it's clear that Saddam has been someone's prisoner for more than a couple of days. The long beard, red-rimmed eyes, obviously broken look, do not bespeak a man who was free 72 hours ago and then captured by American forces. I think he was caught some time ago by a third party Iraqi, terrorized for weeks, and then the US negotiated for his transfer. The story being put out by the military is just like the Jessica Lynch story, a lie calculated to make our guys look heroic.

That said, I don't the Bush administration has gone so far as to hold onto him and await a good moment to spring him on the world. Believe me, ousting Dean from the cover of Newsweek was not their best opportunity to make a splash. Closer to the election, when the democrats would have no time to re-tool their message, would have been better for Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:09 PM

I just did write up another conspiracy theory invented in that moment to show I did not take the first post serious (though it may have been meant serious). And a tiny bit, I admit, I was also making fun of the idea that really everything that has happened since September 11 and what the 'West' has done is the best that could have happened according to Osama's plans. Now I am taken serious instead.

Sometimes things just happen. For this capture to be staged or timed too many people would have to be involved.

Weeks before the last elections the opposition in Germany was bound to win safely, but Schroeder showed convincing leadership in the worst flooding of the river Elbe since ages. Cartoon: One German says to the other: "I wonder which part of Germany will have to be flooded before the next elections".

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:18 PM

It is a matter of record that Saddam has been in flight since the fall of Baghdad, staying in one place for a few hours or a day or two only; he has been very nearly caught four times and nearly blown to hell twice.

He has been "living" in rat-trap quarters and scuttling around amongst safehouses under cover of night.

Given this much, the only thing that he has been captive of is his own desperate circumstances -- he has not been free, but not because anyone was holding him. If someone were, do you think they would put him in a hole with a Kalashnikov? And $750,000??? What's wrong with this picture???

A

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM

Well, the story about the money and the Kalashnikov is what we've been told, Amos. But then, we were told that Jessica Lynch kept fighting until she ran out of bullets, when actually she never fired a shot. I just don't believe the government much anymore!

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:31 PM

Saddam is more popular than the Beatles


Ticket to ride

He said that livin in holes
was getting him down....yeah
He will never be free
with the US around

He went to Tikrit to hi ide
He went to Tiktit to hi i ide
He went to Tikrit to hide

and he don't care
Thats right he don't care

They said he didn't put up a fight
he didn't look right , he didn't look right, to me

Bush is feelin outright delight
like Dudly DoRight, like Dudly DoRight he seems.

He said that livin in holes
was getting him down....yeah
Iraq will never be free
with the US around

He went to Tikrit to hi ide
He went to Tiktit to hi i ide
He went to Tikrit to hide

and he don't care
Saddam he don't care


don hakamn

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:56 PM

Lest we forget: —

Howard Dean getting knocked off the cover of Newsweek by Saddam Hussein is not the only thing that got knocked out of the news.

Let us not forget that just before Saddam's capture became the news item that swamped out everything else, the big story was Halliburton's $61 million overcharge of the military for fuel and $67 million overcharge for food service to the military — and the questions about why Halliburton was given a no-bid contract for these and other services when they have a long history of overcharging the government for such services.

Saddam's capture taking over the sweet-spot in the news allows Cheney to crawl out from under his desk, at least until the news gets back to the issue. If, indeed, it ever does get back to the issue.

I'm not implying any hanky-panky here, but I'm sure there was a great gasp of relief in the upper circles in the Bush administration when the Halliburton story got eclipsed.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 03:44 PM

Wolfy... if you think I was being even remotely serious... HaHaHa! If you will go back and review, you will find that I was clearly and beyond a doubt conjecturing, but that you expounded BS without 'copping' to your own fantasy...in an effort that was obviously an effort to discredit my own laughingly self-discredited scenario. The only truly serious point I was making, was...

...on the simple and uncontestable matter of 'coordination'... which is a nice way of saying 'dictatorship'... the rest, and I said so explicitly BTW, is PURE FANTASY.

If I am alone in being totally offended by my own government, then the least you can do is be open and logical about my ignorances... unless of course, I'm not completely wrong...
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 04:44 PM

Thomas,

I admire your verses, whenever I read them, but I have difficulties with your prose. You seem to use the words 'explicitly' and 'conjecture' in a very different way than I do. If you had explicitly used the words 'pure fantasy' in your first post as you now claim my reaction would have been quite different. But thanks for the clarification.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 05:38 PM

The Ballad of Saddam

No one knows what it's like...to be the bad man
To be the SADMAN...behind red eyes!
No one knows what it's like...to be hated
To be fated...to telling only lies!
But my dreams they aren't as empty
As my conscience seems to be
I have hours...only lonely
My love is vengeance...that's never free...

No one knows what it's like to feel these feelings
In my tush
AND I BLAME BUSH!!!!
No one bites back so hard on his anger
All of my pain and woe
What a rush!!!
By my dreams they aren't as empty
As my pockets seem to be
I have hours...in the lockup
Where is Osama?...Wish he were me...

If my fist clenches, crack it open
(I might be hiding WMD's)
And if I smile, check out my dentures
For a hidden vial of THC
If I should swallow something evil
Put a tongue depressor down my throat
And keep me safe from Shi'ite vengeance
Let me wear your bulletproof coat

Yeah...no one knows what it's like
To be the bad man...
To be the SADMAN...
Behind red eyes!

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 05:52 PM

OK little hawk, when do we form our production company?

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 06:28 PM

Oh, Little... I laughed hard!

Wolfgang... sorry to come on so strong here... You made a good point, but I did say "absolutely unfounded", and my Idea of conjecture is that of guesswork without facts... Can we still be friends? ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: michaelr
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 07:55 PM

Amos -- you said It is a matter of record that Saddam has been in flight since the fall of Baghdad, staying in one place for a few hours or a day or two only; he has been very nearly caught four times and nearly blown to hell twice.

Mind telling me where that particular record can be perused?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:37 PM

Well, Michael, I pieced it together from descriptions that have been gathered from him since his capture, plus some descriptions from the Army guys over there. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the rhetorical expression -- all the data is on the web in news stories here and there, but not in one centralized place. Sorry.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 06:36 AM

Sure, Thomas.


Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 06:57 AM

from a recent interview (my translation)

"The capture of Saddam was a shoddy farce and quite a fraud. That may as well have been one of his many doubles. The USA did need this action now to help Bush out of a dilemma. It should not be overlooked that a country has been ambushed by another country that has waged war against the will of the UNO, a war of aggression. (the oil wells were the primary reason)...In comparison with other dictatorships in our habitat like China and Israel I must say that I have difficulties to see here even gradual differences...(Question: It sound as if he likes Saddam more than Bush?).. That's a really difficult choice. Both have been at loggerheads with the international law, have violated human rights. One of them has the luck to govern a world power which gives him the power to write the laws whereas the other was only a weak dictator."

I'll tell you a bit later who was interviewed here.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 01:51 PM

Austrian extreme right politician Jö,rg Haider it was I have cited.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 04:52 PM

Wow! Wolfgang... Thanks for that little morsel... I never would have guessed! ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Amos
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 05:13 PM

Wolfgang:

I think it is pretty sure the man is Hussein. Is there a lot of sympathy in Germany with Herr Haider's point of view?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 10:56 PM

It is certainly possible to have little sympathy for either the Bush administration's role in this war or Saddam's role. Yes, they have both shown contempt for the international community, and they have both engaged in self-aggrandizing policies of blatant aggression, with no valid excuse, and they have both told lies to support their aggressions. And yes, Bush is in command of a superpower, so he can make the rules as he goes along, and no one can stop him. Saddam was just a little bullying fish, so he could only make the rules inside his own fishbowl...up until the big supershark moved in and smashed it. Now he's a little ex-bully fish that is in the process of being eaten, along with many other little fish whom he used to order around.

The big supershark, on the other hand, is getting a stomachache from having overeaten just a tad in the last couple of years.

Mr Haider, being a well-known political radical (the media's favourite "bad boy" of his particular type), can get away with openly saying things which are far too extreme for most politicians to dare to say openly...though they may think those things in private. That doesn't make him a saint or a good guy, but it's certainly interesting to hear someone saying it. A country doesn't actually have to techically BE a dictatorship in order to sometimes ACT like one...all it needs is the will and determination to act that way, and a public which is either supportive, passive or compliant. Hitler was elected, and he had enthusiastic majority public support. Bush was sort of elected (?), and he has...ummm...well I think he has a majority support...or does he? Sharon was elected too, and he runs a police state, in my opinion, but given the conditions all around Israel, it's not really surprising that it's gotten like that. Danger on every side. A police state becomes almost inevitable under such circumstances.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 07:16 AM

Sympathy with Haider('s point of view)? No, surely not within the normal political spectrum.

I posted this to demonstrate something which may be surprising to some on the other side of the Atlantic: The extreme right in Germany and Austria is very anti-USA, anti-Israel and pro-Arabs (those living in their respective countries). In this respect, they are not different from the extreme left.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 09:57 PM

Yes, LH... far too extreme...

Wolfgang... yes, the left over here, and the right over there... strange, isn't it? But then again, a left-right duality does imply two sides to every issue, and neither side is always perfect... and the tension between the two is what is supposed to keep things in ballence...

So, when I'm 'going off', I usually take the side of the 'underdog', or at least the unrepresented point of view, and I veer towards a general humanitarianism. As a pasifist, I seek non-violent solutions to problems, and this is the root of my difficulties with the resident administration... My point of view is direct:

"Hardball politics and war are last resort options only, and a constant reliance upon them as a tool for 'regieme change' or 'coordination' of society here at home can not 'make' Democracy work... anywhere. Democracy is a self-seeding process that needs the self reliance to come from it's own people. At best, it can only be encouraged..."

The leanings towards a pseudo-dictatorship that (I feel) we have here in the States is a wartime measure... and normal to some degree... but what makes for difficulties in the day to day analysis is the not so subtle 'use' of this 'wartime' situation... for what seems like... the political gain of the very people who were responsible for the war in the first place.

I suppose that I wouldn't be so upset about it if Bush was clearly elected... or the actual perpetrators were being persued with all our seriousness... or people were being encouraged to join us in a worldwide coalition that the entire world could be proud of...

end of rant. ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 10:36 PM

Well, ttr, it is indeed sad and troubling that democracy has totally failed as a system of government in the US. And there isn't any good news on the horizon as the educational system and TV is slowly but surely dumbing down American. I see the '04 election as perhaps America's last shoot of riddin' itself of facists who will, given time, follow in the footsteps of the facists that have come before.

Today, I held my nose as I affixed a Howard Dean bumper sticker to the back end of my old Toyota. But with the $200,000M that Bush has to spend and Diebolds promisin' to deliver, i must say that I am very concerned that we can't stop the Bush machine. But I'll be working the phone lines and knockin' on doors anyway...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 06:13 AM

The general humanitarianism, the respect for other humans, that is the main difference between the extreme left and the extreme right in Central Europe even though they have some few things in common, like for instance hatred of USA and Israel.

So in a (theoretical) choice situation, my sympathies would never be with those booted brutes who think an not-German face is a good enough reason to kick a person to hospital or death.

Europe's experience with communism shows that people coming from a left position can also have a complete disregard for human lifes and values. But in my daily experience with people from the left and from the right I mostly see more humanitarianism and respect in those coming from the left. But then I'm surely biased (as a Green voter; just to surprise Bobert, I thought I should tell you the truth).

(If only some of those lefties would not all too often, and more often than those from the right, confuse being weak-hearted with being weak-headed)

Wolfgang

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 07:20 AM

Dean celebrated in song...

http://www.capsteps.com/sounds/dean-believer.ra

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 07:56 AM

"Dean" (of the thread title) is that as in ecclesiastical 'dean', if so it would combine neatly with getting Saddam out of his hole:

"When the radical priest came to get me released
We were all on the cover of Newsweek!"

(Me & Julio: Paul Simon)


Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 08:17 AM

Wolfgang,

Yeah, I'm surprised but not shocked that we share our Green Party affiliations. Incidently, I have met 4 other Greens at the local Dean headquarters. Disgusting but reality. I have let it be known that this is a one shot deal with me and if Dean wins, the following day I'm going to take the Dean sticker off than get back to needling the Dems...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Saddam ousts Dean from cover of Newsweek
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 03:41 PM

Wolfgang, I don't mean they (mainstream politicians) would sympathize with Haider's entire point of view...just certain parts of it here and there (if I can go by what you quoted).

- LH