BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone

Subject: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Alice
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:03 PM

Reports - next month's cover of the Rolling Stone will be Howard Dean. He will talk about his musical influences. (For Dean and the blues, see my previous thread w/ photos of Dean playing blues guitar.)

Alice
(go Dean)

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:16 PM

Yo HOWARD!! Gittttt DOWN!!! I love a bluesman being President.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:18 PM

There has to be a new version of the Dr Hook song for this. (That's what I mean when I say political songs don't have to be "protest songs")

Here's a link to the original words.

Strikes me it wouldn't need that much adjusting...:

Well, I'm a cute politician, I'm the opposition
And I'm loved everywhere I go
I talk about about beauty and I talk about truth
At ten thousand dollars a show
I take all kind of stands, make me feel kind of grand
But the thrill I've fin'lly known, is the thrill that gets'cha
When you get your picture on the cover of the Rollin' Stone

CHORUS:
Rollin' Stone,
Wanna see my picture on the cover
Wanna buy five copies for my mother [ Yeah! ]
Wanna see my smilin' face, on the cover, the cover of the Rollin' Stone

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: DougR
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:20 PM

According to recent reports, Dean is in a dead heat for the Iowa Caucuses with Kerry, Edwards and Gebhardt. I'm pulling for Dean, Alice!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:20 PM

I have the blues about this part of the election process--the dems are out there in a slug fest that is just giving ammo to Bush for later. They're their own worst enemies, and Rove and others will use it to great advantage when they start their whisper campaigns.

Depressed in Texas--
SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Alice
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:29 PM

Ha! Doug, that's funny.
Thanks. Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: robinia
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 11:30 PM

Depressed in Texas, have you heard about the speech Clark gave in Dallas?   Click here for an account of some passionate Bush-bashing by one candidate who's staying focused on the presidency.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 01:15 PM

Ha, Robinia.

The subtext, of course, is that Clark doesn't have to argue against other candidates very stridently right now, because he's not competing in Iowa. He gets the first three weeks of January free to roam New Hampshire with no competition, so his poll numbers go up, he can avoid attacks from other democrats and avoid attcking other democrats himself. That was his entire strategy. It is not, however, moral superiority, nor does it reflect a greater focus on beating Bush.

Clark will either get nasty when the time comes, or he will be eaten alive when Kerry, Dean, Gep and Edwards engage him for the February states. I incline to believe he will get nasty, as one doesn't become a four star general by allowing oneself to be eaten alive. He may of course win the nomination, but as SRS notes, we will all be diminished by the process no matter who takes it.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 02:19 PM

Heard on the TV last night, but I can't recall who said it: "The reason that Republicans seem to be well organized and Democrats seem to be waffling all over the place is that Republicans are convinced that they possess God's own truth and that they are absolutely right about everything. Democrats, on the other hand, are more flexible in their thinking, which leaves them open to the possibility that, now and then, they could be wrong. Therefore, they spend a great deal of time arguing with themeselves and each other instead of going after the Republicans."   

Another quote I heard a few days ago:   "When Democrats form firing squads, they tend to form them in a circle."

When the Democratic candidate is sorted out at the convention and the Dems can stop bickering among themselves, they'll then concentrate their fire on Bush. Bush can very easily be forced onto the defensive, because he has so much to be defensive about.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: DougR
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 06:12 PM

It's going to be a very interesting campaign I think. The first time since McGovern ran on the Democratic ticket that the people will have a clear choice between political philosophies. I think this will be particilarly true should Dean win the nomination. From what I have been hearing and reading, though, Dean still has a long way to go. The Democratic "machine" led by Bill and Hillary Clinton definitely do not want Dean to win, and neither, evidently, does the Chairman of the Democratic Party (Terry McCauliff sp?). It's going to be an interesting ride I think.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM

Doug:

Be carefull what you ask for. Yeah, I keep hearing publicly that the Bush folks want Dean... Yeah? Why would they say that? If hs is truelu "un-electable" then why wouldn't they just stay quiet on Dean? Well, you don't have to worry yer head about this, Doug, cause fact is, you and yer guy are purdy danged scared of Dean. He's an outsider and the last 2 Dems to be elected were outsiders. The last insider Dem elected was JFK!

Think about it...

Like I said, be carefull what you ask fir!

As fir Dean on the cover of the Rolling Stone? Great! Put his face on anything but the post office wall...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 08:23 AM

From all I've read and seen on the news Dean appears to be eminently conservative, small c. And, if he was in this country, he sounds like he'd probably be more at home in the Conservative Party, big C.

And yet he's counted as left-wing in the States...

.................

"The last insider Dem elected was JFK!" Wasn't there some guy called Lyndon Johnson?

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 09:05 AM

No, McGrath. Lyndon Johnson was very much an "insider" also having come from the Senate where he had risen to be one of the most powerful Senators.

As for Dr. Dean being a conservative? Well, maybe a little more than I'd like but a lot of us progressives aren't in step with the radical policies of the Bush asministartion and would like to go back to times when Boss Hog didn't have his foot on labor's neck. Dr. Dean's conservatism could certainly be used in that regard. I don't see him as anti-labor.

Also, as he has stated since the beginning of his campaign he wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Yeah, I reckon that is now a rather conservative approach to foriegne policy. Remember, the neocons begged Clinton to attack Iraq going back to 1992 and Clinton threw the bums out of his office. So, yeah, if that's conservative, count by boney Wes Ginny butt in...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 10:37 AM

Precisely, Bobert, which means that Johnson, and not Kennedy, was "The last insider Dem elected".

I wasn't particularly criticising Dean for being conservative. I was puzzled why genuinely conservative people in America appear not to recognise him as one of their own, and prefer instead the extremely shady opportuinists clustered round the Bush wagon.

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 11:04 AM

McGrath, the problem is that most Americans do not personally research the substance of politician's views and actions in order to inform their opinions. They rely on the media "hype and spin" to form their political views. If you asked most people what Dean did in Vermont (balanced budgets, decreased child abuse, created jobs, revitalized small towns, protected the environment) they would have no clue. If you asked them what Bush did in the past (shirked his military duty, failed in business) they would have no clue. Americans, unfortunately, are ignorant of the real facts behind the politicians and just soak up the quick sound bites that get spun on television "news entertainment" and right-wing talk radio. The exciting thing about Dean is that has energized average American Democratic voters who had given up on politicians, to become more informed and more involved in the process. The Dean blog is constantly bringing up discussions of facts and issues. People following Dean's campaign are more engaged in finding out the facts and the "meat" of the issues than I have ever seen before. I think Dean's plain spoken manner where he will go in to detail and speak off the cuff, bring up examples of how he has succeeded, and what needs to be done in the future, has really awakened interest. Most other politicians, including Bush, drone on with "canned" phrases and sanitized speeches that put the electorate to sleep, while they hypnotize them into believing "the spin" instead of informing them to believe the truth.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 11:22 AM

Here are some sources to analyze the way the media is spinning more anti-Dean. The negativity against Dean in the media is much greater than toward the other candidates. Bush, on the other hand, gets a free pass in main stream media.

Critique and analysis of 2004 campaign coverage from Columbia Journalism Review
http://www.campaigndesk.org/

www.factcheck.org

www.informationclearinghouse.info

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Alice
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 11:52 AM

Another source regarding the American media and its addiction to "spin" instead of fact checking:

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20040112.html

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 01:54 PM

Then, of course, there is the matter of rubber definitions when it comes to "liberal" and "conservative." Eric Alterman, in his book What Liberal Media? The Truth about Bias and the News, mentions that during the times he spent traveling in Europe, he learned that what most Americans would regard as a "liberal" politician, most Europeans would regard as "moderately conservative." What most Americans would regard as "conservative," most Europeans would regard as "extremely conservative," if not beyond the pale.

Dennis Kucinich is the most liberal of the aspirants (I'm not sure where Sharpton fits, because I haven't really heard him outline a cohesive program). I find Howard Dean to be "middle of the road." On any scale acceptable to a serious political scientist, to characterize Kerry or Lieberman as "liberal" is highly questionable. Yet, recognizing the political realities, I will bite the bullet and vote for whichever one of the aspirants emerges as the Democratic candidate.

I regard getting the Bush League out of office as damage control. Once that's taken care of, we can see about getting the country back on the road to eventual civilization.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: Amos
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 03:47 PM

"Doctor Gandhi, what is your opinion of Western civilization?"

"I think it would be an excellent idea."


A

Subject: RE: BS: Howard DEAN - Cover of the Rolling Stone
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 06:34 PM

I think that if Dean put on spandex, painted his face and
blasted his blues out of a stack of Marshalls, he might well
give a rock and roll run for his money. He'd go platinum. Or better yet, Dean Dogg.

He's got "attitude" and that's what most Americans think it's
what it takes to govern a country. I guess that's why some
supported Bush.

Dean's themesong might be "Born To Be Wild".

If he wins the primary, I'll vote for him though.

He's probably a better guitar player than Lee Atwater was. :)

Frank