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What is Burns Night?

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GUEST,McTavish 25 Jan 04 - 04:59 AM
akenaton 25 Jan 04 - 05:41 AM
running.hare 25 Jan 04 - 06:02 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 25 Jan 04 - 07:28 AM
cetmst 25 Jan 04 - 07:41 AM
GUEST,Van 25 Jan 04 - 07:57 AM
Jim McLean 25 Jan 04 - 08:13 AM
Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House 25 Jan 04 - 10:10 AM
GUEST,Guest, B.T. 25 Jan 04 - 10:16 AM
Hillheader 25 Jan 04 - 10:28 AM
cetmst 25 Jan 04 - 11:10 AM
Peg 25 Jan 04 - 12:54 PM
pavane 25 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM
Nigel Parsons 25 Jan 04 - 04:06 PM
Raedwulf 25 Jan 04 - 04:15 PM
akenaton 25 Jan 04 - 04:21 PM
akenaton 25 Jan 04 - 04:41 PM
Megan L 25 Jan 04 - 05:26 PM
Raedwulf 25 Jan 04 - 05:56 PM
akenaton 25 Jan 04 - 07:32 PM
JennieG 25 Jan 04 - 07:51 PM
Teribus 26 Jan 04 - 06:15 AM
Teribus 26 Jan 04 - 06:34 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 26 Jan 04 - 10:24 AM
akenaton 26 Jan 04 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Claymore 26 Jan 04 - 04:45 PM
Raedwulf 26 Jan 04 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,BIG ANDY 26 Jan 04 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,ozmacca 26 Jan 04 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,pavane 27 Jan 04 - 02:45 AM
GUEST,Hugh Jampton 27 Jan 04 - 06:45 AM
Teribus 27 Jan 04 - 10:13 AM
GUEST,Claymore 28 Jan 04 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,McTavish 28 Jan 04 - 01:10 PM
Wolfgang 28 Jan 04 - 02:19 PM
Megan L 28 Jan 04 - 02:27 PM
GUEST,Chanteyranger 28 Jan 04 - 03:44 PM
Teribus 29 Jan 04 - 08:03 AM
Jim McLean 29 Jan 04 - 08:10 AM
Rex 29 Jan 04 - 01:10 PM
The Fooles Troupe 29 Jan 04 - 05:17 PM
Roger the Skiffler 30 Jan 04 - 09:15 AM
Teribus 30 Jan 04 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,maryrrf (cookieless) 30 Jan 04 - 10:01 AM
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Subject: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,McTavish
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 04:59 AM

I notice on a current thread somebody asked "When is Burn's Night?"
But can anybody tell me what it is? I know Burns was a scotch poet, but I'm sure that this is just a recently "made up" thing, probably because the scotch have no equivelant of out St Patrick's day! and the pub landlords love an excuse for a celebration. Why not Keats night, Shakespear afternoon, Kipling weekend, C.S. Lewis day!


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 05:41 AM

A celebration of the birth and life of Robert Burns,in much the same way as the birth of Jesus Christ is celebrated.
There are many similarities between the teachings of Christ and the phylosophy of Burns.
Burns although from simple stock was far ahead of the other poets that you mention,in understanding of the important things in life.
The fact that Burns was a Scot is completely irrelevant,try read ing and understanding his work, and you will soon find Robert Burns to be one of the finest examples of the human species ever produced, warts and all...... Ake


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: running.hare
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 06:02 AM

"because the scotch have no equivelant of out St Patrick's day!"
That would be St Andrews Day!?

We Had a most enjoyable Burns night on friday (closest friday) with piper & Haggis though we're in southern England. The's nothng like galloping down the restrant in time to the music to clear plates.

& Come April we'll celebrate St Georges Day (Wth Shakespeers birthday thrown in for good measure) With another banquet.

T' The Haggis


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 07:28 AM

I've no problem putting Rabbie on a par with Jesus Christ, Ake. But ahead of Shakespeare? Are you serious?


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: cetmst
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 07:41 AM

Burns Night is celebrated all over the world by Scots, Scot expatriates and emigrants new and old. The St. Andrew's Society of Baltimore has had an annual Burns Night for many years on the Saturday nearest Burns' birthdate, today January 25th. Last night's dinner featured the usual Scots formal dress, kilts, plaid gowns, single malt whiskey, haggis, Burns poetry and songs, new and old Scots jokes and a candle-lit table for the poet and his lass. One of the speakers mentioned that the first Burns Night was celebrated in 1806 so it's not a new made-up thing. Another feature is entertainment by musicians and in the past has included Linda Rice-Johnson, Bonnie Rideout and Christina Harrison. Last night a group called Widdershins performed some seldom heard numbers and avoided the standards Loch Lomond, Flower of Scotland and Scotland the Brave. I'd like to know more about this group.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 07:57 AM

cetmst,

surely it was a single malt whisky. I'll be having one or two tonight with the usual trimmings while I enjoy watching Eddie Reader singing Burn's songs on TV. Just me and Bonnie Lesley - the only woman I have met to whom a poem was dedicated a couple of centuries or so before her birth. Not quite your usual Burn's supper but a quiet and no doubt enjoyable celebration of the man.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 08:13 AM

And, cetmst, what is a plaid gown? I assume you mean either a tartan gown or plain with a tartan sash? The word plaid means 'blanket' and is nowadays confused with the correct word for the checkered material (tartan). We hear this here in the UK all the time.
I have enjoyed Burns' nights for some time now and have just read that a club in Montrose, I think, is all male and has refused a woman admission. Quite shocking considering Burns' poem The Rights of Women.
Jim


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 10:10 AM

How can anybody say that St Andrew's is the equivalent of St Patrick's day! Apart from being the Catholic Church's designated feast day of the country's patron saint, it has nothing else in common. The Parades, Shamrock, parties & fun that are associated with 17th March are celebrated all over the world - They certainly don't happen on St Andrews day.

To compare Burns to Jesus, well you must be completely off your trolley.

Far ahead of Shaky ha! ha! what's your idea of a good read then "Noddy's adventure in toytown"

The whole Scot (as opposed to Scotch) thing was invented by the victorians.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,Guest, B.T.
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 10:16 AM

Eddi Reader singing Burns on BBC1 tv Scotland tonight. 'Nicht o' Ulster Scotch' on BBC2 Northern Ireland tonight (Sky 943).


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Hillheader
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 10:28 AM

Part of the irony of Burns is that if he were alive today the demand would be "Keep that drunken letch away from my wife!!!".

As a Scot I can understand the appraisal of his works but not the cult of Burns the person.

And I would add that I do think he was better than Shakespear, much of whose work cow-towed to the Establishment of the day while Presbetyrian Burns flew in the face of it, being a republican socialist in most of his views and love before it was ever fashionable to be so.

Unfortunately (and it could only happen is West Central Scotland) Burn's links with Freemasonry create sectarian problems for some people. I've even seen a website today put forward the theory that Catholics should not be allowed to appreciate Burns because he was of a different faith!!!! As I say, only in West Central Scotland.....

Happy Burns Day


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: cetmst
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 11:10 AM

Jim MacLean - I stand corrected. My Scots ancestors were deported to Northern Ireland in the 17th century, could only abide it there for a hundred years or so and migrated to backwoods Pennsylvania in the mid 1700's. Some of the customs and terminology have been lost over the years.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Peg
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 12:54 PM

Burns was a great romantic figure. He loved deeply and often. He did break some hearts, but if his lyrics are any indication, his own was broken as well. His loyal wife stayed with him for many years, and she gave birth on the day he died at age 36.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: pavane
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM

Shouldn't it be Burns's night, not Burn's night? His name was Burns, not Burn.

Famous collector and writer of bawdy songs, which he had to clean up when he became famous, so the ladies could hear them?


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 04:06 PM

Of course, he also appears on the £5 note issued by Clydesdale Bank

Nigel


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 04:15 PM

In which case it should be Burns' Night...

According to what I can find, it dates back to 1801, rather than 1806. "The supper can trace its roots back to 1801, 5 years after his death, where in Burns cottage friends gathered to celebrate his work."

Dunno whether that's more accurate than cetmst's date, but what's 5 years out of 200? It goes back a long way, is for sure.

Mind you, ake won't be surprised to find me disagreeing with 'is point-of-view again. ;) Burns although from simple stock was far ahead of the other poets that you mention, in understanding of the important things in life. ...you will soon find Robert Burns to be one of the finest examples of the human species ever produced"

Rubbish! He was a poet of outstanding quality, certainly. Is a thistle prettier than a rose, a tulip, or a dandelion? He's not better then Shakespeare, Kipling, etc. He just expressed himself in a different idiom. Appreciate him for the beauty he created, & they for theirs. I was lucky last night. I was out of London, & had the opportunity to gaze up into a clear night sky without hindrance of light pollution. Who gives a damn which constellation is which? The stars were beautiful!! Think about it...


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 04:21 PM

Folk man ..I dont understand why you think me mad to compare Burns to Jesus Christ.Both espoused the doctrins of the "Brotherhood of man", and Burns's obvious feeling for other living creatures,echo Christs teachings on God the creator.
There have been a few comments on Burns's sexual mores. To my mind burns was a libertarian,who appreciated the emotions and sexual feelings ,which he saw ,quite rightly as a "natural "gift.
Lots of poeople would like to live like Burns, but feel constrained by
societys conventions.I often think most people are only half alive
PS.... Ihavn't got To Noddys adventures yet, but on your recommendation I'll see if I can borrow a copy from the weans next door!!
Fionn BURNS V SPOKESHAVE......."Nae   contest"!!!!
    Best Wishes   Ake


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 04:41 PM

Readwulf...You piss me off considerably.
Burns was much more than a poet ,he was a brilliant philosopher,satirist and comic.
I suppose having the misfortune to be English, you'll be in difficulty wi' the "braid Scots".
Try the Scots Glossary.
Sincerely.
Ake.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 05:26 PM

now now akenaton we shouldnae spurn our weeker brethernmind on what robin taught

So gently scan your fellow man
still gentler sister woman,
though they may gang a kennin wrang
tae step aside is human.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 05:56 PM

Ake - "piss me off"? You having a sense of humour bypass, again? Burns is a great poet. Philosopher, maybe. "Greater than..."

No!

Different from...

Yes. Poetry is not a competitive art, & comparisons between one poet & another are as valid as comparing one flower to another. What the hell is your problem?

Obviously, apart from being a stereotypical miserable Scots... ;)


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 07:32 PM

Raedwulf ...The reason Scots are so miserable,is that everywhere they look they see the English!!
Anyway.. about a year ago ,I was doing some roof work for an old man,who lived a few miles away. After I had finished I had a wee crack with the auld yin, and we got talking about Burns's poetry and life. The old man invited me into his house for a drink ,took me into the sitting room and showed me an old wooden chair. It had wee short legs and a high slatted back, obviously very old.
The man said to me "sit down on that chair ,Ill get something for you to see".He left me for a few minutes ,and returned with a hand ful of paper which proved the chair to belong to Jean Armours family,and had origionaly been in Burns's family home.The old man explained that his late wife was a descendent of the Armours,and had been left the chair.
The old man told me ," theres no doubt that chair your sitting on once supported Rabbie himself.......Magic....Ake


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: JennieG
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 07:51 PM

Haven't we had Burns' Night threads before? I seem to remember posting to one a year or 2 back. Might be worth checking up on them too.
Cheers
JennieG (who had Scottish great-great grandparents)


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 06:15 AM

Burns was not merely a poet. Having "made it" on the literary scene in Scotland he then set about touring the country collecting stories, songs and tunes. This was all self financed and he did it for no financial reward. He did this at a time when Scotland was being anglicised and Scots traditions, culture and heritage were under serious threat of eradication. He did more than any other to preserve the heritage, tradition and culture of Scotland.

To those who doubt Burns contribution take a good look at Scottish music and song and exclude Burns.

I am firmly with Akenaton on the question of due recognition for Burns compared to Shakespeare.

I have a question for Peter K (Fionn), who in his post of 25 Jan 04 - 07:28 AM, stated:

"I've no problem putting Rabbie on a par with Jesus Christ, Ake. But ahead of Shakespeare? Are you serious?"

What message did William Shakespeare leave to the people of the world?

Burns left one that is still as relevant and vibrant today, as it was when it was written over 200 years ago:

"For a' that, and a' that
Its comin' yet for a' that
That man tae man the world ower
Shall brothers be for a' that"

That Burns is honoured - World-wide. Is amazing considering the age in which he lived - 1759 to 1796.

Some of his contemporaries:
Mozart; Horatio Nelson; James Cook; Walter Scot; Mungo Park; Samuel Coleridge; Beethoven; Voltaire; George Stephenson; Davy Crocket; John Paul Jones; Richard Arkwright; Thomas Paine; the Adam brothers; David Hulme; Adam Smith; Artists Runciman, Ramsay and Raeburn.

Of the above only Horatio Nelson's immortal memory is celebrated, but on a much smaller scale than that of Robert Burns.

Some of the notable events:

Canada ceded to Britain
Start of the Industrial Revolution
Cook reached Australia
American War of Independence
First Settlement of Australia
French Revolution
Jenner makes first vaccination against smallpox
"Whiff of Grapeshot" incident, Napoleon takes command of the French Army.

Out of all the above the only one whose birth and life are celebrated all over the world (in over 200 countries) is the eldest son of a poor tenant farmer, a Scot, name of Robert Burns.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 06:34 AM

folkman - 25 Jan 04 - 10:10 AM

A little note on St.Patrick's Day as it is now celebrated - It was introduced in America as a PR exercise to counter the ill-feeling of the local population towards the Irish in-comers. St.Patrick's Day is what it is - an "Oirish" piss-up pure and simple. The Scots make no claim that their two celebrations in anyway compare - Thank God.

In Ireland, itself, before 1972 you would have been hard put to even get a drink in a pub on St.Patrick's Day, it was a religious festival, hotels and hotel bars were open but that was about it.

The Parades, Shamrock, parties & fun that are associated with 17th March are celebrated all over the world. St.Patrick's Day spans at most about a week. Burns Nights and Burns Suppers span about seven weeks and are held the world over.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 10:24 AM

I `ad that McGregor McGregor in my cab once. I asked `im if `e was going to celebrate Burns` night in January. `e said nah, we live in England now and we do that on November the 5th. You should a seen `is `ands!
What am I like!


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 03:08 PM

Thanks Teribus, that was brilliant..
"Ah wisht ah could mine they wheen o' facts ye hae at yer fingar tips"
And its nice to see we can be on the same side occasionally.
    Long live "THE IMMORTAL MEMORY"


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 04:45 PM

To those who are interested in actually attending a Burns' Night I would suggest contacting your local Scottish Country Dance group. I've just gotten back from the one in Charlotteville, VA which I attend each year. My SO is a dancer with the Frederick, MD group and each year we drive down on Friday night, she dances the Saturday afternoon dance, and then we go to the annual Burns' Dinner at Mitchie Taven (an old historic tavern next to Monticello, Jefferson's home). The haggis is piped in and there is always an expatriate Scot to recite Burns Ode to Haggis in broad Scots, which is passed (and passed) around. The Selkirks Grace, the Toast to the Lassies and a return Toast of the Lassies, and and 18th Century meal follows with much wine and merriment with low hewn beams lit by nothing but candle light.

My ancestry is also Scots-Irish, with our progentator being driven out of Scotland to County Down, building the first Presbytrian church in Ireland as well as the third Masonic lodge in Newtonards, before sailing to St. Johns, in Canada to build the second Presbyterian Church there. Next year I plan to take my daughter and grandson, to give them a taste of their past.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 05:55 PM

Ake - Obviously we English are more virile & manly than you limp Scots. Is that our fault? No! You need to add something more than salt to your porridge... Mind you, in the face of genuine history with bits of paper to prove it, I bow down & worship, you are are a GREAT MAN (I hate you, you jammy bugger, etcetera...)!! ;)

Teribus - I will dispute wid ye, & also poke yers in th' eye wid a sharp stick! Who said anyfink about "merely", eh? Heven hwe hunedicated Henglish hwill hacknowldege Burns (no I can't reasonably hget an 'h' on the front of that... ;) ) as a great poet. But who included "merely", eh?

Shakespeare (& I'm no particular fan) left a legacy that no-one, poet or playwright, is likely to match. Nationality is beside the point. And, it can also be argued, that Wobbly Bill was no particular philosopher. Yet, with the volume of his output (which surpasses others without effort or question) he hits the proverbial nail over & over.

Shakespeare is quoted time & again. More than Burns, more than Dryden, Milton, Boswell, Johnson, or any than you could name. The incidents you quote are not germane to either Shakespeare or Burns, but William S., I am sure, is quoted more oft even than Rabbie B.

Worldwide!

R.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,BIG ANDY
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 06:14 PM

Steady or there might be poetry before the night out and that would be a terrible thing to happen now wouldn't it


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 06:54 PM

It could be supposed from all the above posts that the attraction which Burns offers is that he can seem to be all things to all men, and then be claimed to be an outstanding example of whatever it is. As witness the oft repeated claims by various groups that he was a socialist, a supporter of the French Revolution, a patriotic Briton, a supporter of the Jacobite cause, a committed Freemason, a defender of the true faith (whichever one you select...), a satirical attacker of organised religion, a women's libber, a died-in-the-wool bachelor (even when he was married).... you name it. This despite the evidence that he just did what looked like a good idea at the time, and then usually had to apologise for it afterwards so that he didn't upset too many powerful enemies.

What is true about Burns is that, in much of his better work, he reflected the feelings of the ordinary man, whether he was simply getting by in the everyday struggle to survive, or was caught up in the changing values and pressures of the times. Small wonder he was so popular in his own time. Let's face it, he'd been there, done that, and he had the gift of making the listener or reader think about the background to the words and apply it to their own experience. Trainee surveyor, farmer, militiaman, Excise officer, poet, writer, lover, husband, father; he was a man of the people and a product not only of his time, but of the history of his nation.

I don't think you can reasonably compare Burns to Shakespeare except in one area alone. Their target audience was generally so different that comparisons just don't work. The Shakespearean plays tell a range of stories for the stage. These were aimed to entertain the Elizabethan common folk (as well as the nobility) in ways that Burns never intended, but the Shakespeare sonnets at least can be said to be beautiful poetry certainly on par with the "english language" work of Burns. When Burns wrote in the scots dialects I would suggest he was writing for a very definite and very different audience indeed, and while the english peasant or lower class of his time would appreciate much of the sentiment, the language was aimed fair and square at the people Burns knew. His great talent was in making his kind of people think about life.

On the subject of the Burns Supper cult, and having been involved in presenting entertainment for an intimate "Nicht wi' Burns" Dinner on Saturday gone (much the same material the third year running, but we do avoid the usual done-to-death run-of-the-mill stuff and try to get the audience interested in his life as well as his work), it never ceases to amaze me how many people downunder want to claim to be scots, or descended from the scots. There were more kilts and sporrans in evidence than a Black Watch re-union. We performers looked downright villainous in our version of the great belted plaid, but at least we knew we were just pandering to the uneducated and played it for laughs! We were paid a compliment by the president of the local Caledonia Society, immaculately dressed in Argyle jacket, sporran, kilt, hose, skean-dhu and buckled shoes that it was great to hear the work of Burns in a scottish accent. Not one of his group actually spoke the tongue. Which makes me wonder just how much of the meaning they got out of the poetry and the song lyrics.......... must be the melody and the rhythm of the thing.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,pavane
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 02:45 AM

May be interesting to note that some years ago, our ceildih band from Wales, (whose members were mostly English) did Burns Night in England, successfully enough that we were immediately booked for the following year.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 06:45 AM

Claymore,
         What a fine monument is Monticello with the gardens and all. Well worth a visit, although getting in from the dual carriage way posed quite a problem. We managed to drive through the local town twice and asked some students for advise before getting there. Better signposting is called for.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:13 AM

Raedwulf,

The merely was mine, included as in all the posts above only Burns poetry is referred to, the point I attempted to make was that he did much, much more.

Shakespeare was very pro-establishment, he had to be if he wanted to make a living in Elizabeth's England. He accepted rewards from the establishment of the day and at one time was Controller of the Navy (The standard MOD arrow mark of today dates back to Shakespeare's time in office and is in actual fact a spearhead). Shakespeare wrote for financial reward - his first and foremost consideration.

Burns on the other hand was fairly radical for his times. He had "been there and done that" and he lashed into the corruption in office and of power and position continually. This was in Pitt's time, the French Revolution and at the start of the French Revolutionary War. Have a look at Burns "Scots Wha Hae" written as a protest at the kangaroo trial put on for Thomas Muir in 1793 (Good song about this trial by Dick Gaughan), Burns had to, initially, publish the work anon, as he could very well have found himself on the same ship down to Australia as Muir, Palmer and their associates. In 1792 Burns was investigated as his loyalty was under question. Burns wrote, collected songs, stories and music for the love of it - and therein lies the difference in greatness between the two.

While Shakespeare may be more quoted, I would venture the opinion that Burn's works are better known. English is not a language that is widely spoken in Russia, ask a Russian who was schooled during the days of the USSR to say something in English 7 out of 10 will give you a quotation from Burns, from the other three you might get Shakespeare.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:07 AM

Ozmacca, while I understand some of your criticism, I must point out that most poetry from other lands does not require the proper dialect to have some sense of it. Indeed, with the possible exception of some high church Episcopalians, most Americans can give neither the proper inflection nor pronuciation of Shakespeare.

As for the cult aspect, the true reflection of the investment of the individual in Burns is more than the costume. Again, until you attend a well done Scottish Country Dance, you cannot understand the poetry of the dance, much less the commitment to honor the ancestors. I do not dance, but play both Irish, Old Time and some Scottish. Yet a well-danced Strathspey says it all to me, in any case.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,McTavish
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 01:10 PM

I attended a Burns' night on Sunday. It was a good laugh. What the hell is that disgusting muck called haggis and what has it got to do with a dead poet?


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 02:19 PM

Trotz alledem und alledem,
Es kommt dazu trotz alledem,
Daß rings der Mensch die Bruderhand
Dem Menschen reicht trotz alledem! (Freiligrath, 1843)

(exactly the lines Teribus has cited, in Freiligrath's translation)

I know of altogether four different German songs 'Trotz alledem' (For all that), one translation and three rewrites. Burns' influence goes far beyond the English language.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Megan L
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 02:27 PM

Burns "Scots Wha Hae" written as a protest at the kangaroo trial put on for Thomas Muir in 1793

Raedwulf I never realised that, I grew up within walking distance of Thomas Muirs home and was taught to regard him as a hero of the plain mans right to justice.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,Chanteyranger
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 03:44 PM

I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned that Burns had a little known short-lived marriage to a woman named Vera. She took up the fiddle, but was terrible at it. Every time she picked it up to practice, Burns would start roaming all over Scotland, visiting his various girlfriends. So.....

As Vera fiddled, Burns roamed.

Chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 08:03 AM

Hi McTavish,

The story of haggis and a dead poet

While at a debating club in Edinburgh, at which the subject under discussion was, "What is the oddest, or most revolting, meal that has ever been put in front you." Burns listened as one member in the company described how he had been served haggis. Burns apparently was in tucks at the description and was so impressed with it that he wrote his "Address to the Haggis" to commemorate it by "sending it up".

Haggis, or haggis-like dishes are not peculiar to Scotland, nearest equivalent in Norway is a dish called "lungemoss" (Sp?). It's a butchers dream he gets to use up bits and pieces that otherwise would go to waste. Personally I love it, makes a great breakfast the morning after fried.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 08:10 AM

He was also a success in every field he went into!


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Rex
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 01:10 PM

I guess I'll speak up. Sweet Fanny Adams was filled to the rafters on Sunday for the Burns Supper. We et the roast beef, clapshot and crudite. But all had come for the piping in of the haggis by the Isle of Mull pipers and Scot Hughes of the Emerald Society pipers. You know haggis sort of takes on the personality of the region where it is served, so it was for the haggis that had been prepared by Karen Smart the night before. And there was no dearth of it. In addition to lamb and beef, there was also buffalo added to the recipe. We raised toasts to Burns and his work with Athol Brose and guid Scotches. Scottish fiddler Loretta Thompson treated the diners to the songs of Burns accompanied by Brad Craig. The evening wound down with the tunes of the fiddle and the pipes along with Loretta Thompson's fine step dancing. Afterward the ruckus tumbled back into the pub from the dining room where the rest of us musicians joined in with fiddles, mandolins, tinwhistles and more whiskey. Muckle guid fun was had by all.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 05:17 PM

Claymore has oberlooked the fact that if you take his argument genuinely, then many high born Britishers will be unable to perform any of teh "low born" characters - who whould be speaking with accents from other classes and parts of England...

Robin


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 09:15 AM

More haggis information HERE!

RtS


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 09:41 AM

Hi Rex, sounds like you had a really great night!!

Oh McTavish, one other thing about the haggis and the dead poet - The Main Course at a Burns Supper, or Burns Night, should not be Haggis. That is normally served as an entre between the soup and the main course, which is traditionally beef or a steak & kidney pudding.


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Subject: RE: What is Burn's Night?
From: GUEST,maryrrf (cookieless)
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 10:01 AM

Check out this picture of a real wild haggis I found in Scotland - Downtown Kilmarnock, actually!
Wild Haggis


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