BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'

Subject: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 03:48 PM

It's now official. Reported in 3 national newspapers. Teenagers in Canada, particularly teenage girls, use the word "like" more often in their speech than ANY other word, including words such as "the", "I", and "and". It's, like, an epidemic, eh? I'm, like, "Give me a break!"

The average teenage Canadian girl now, like, uses "like" as, like, an interjection, a conjunction, a verb, a...like...adverb, and even, like, occasionally when, like, forming a simile (the original use of the word). It has, like, replaced words such as "said" almost completely.

Oddly enough, it seems to have been Frank Zappa who really started the ball rolling on this expression in a BIG way back in 1982 with some satirical song(s) that made fun of "Valley Girls" (really stupid girls from California) who used to say things like (if you'll pardon the expression..."I'm, like, gag me with a spoon!"

The use of the word "like" has picked up in teen vernacular ever since, and exploded in the late 90's. It is now word numero uno in the Great White North.

It has the disconcerting effect of making even smart young women sound a bit stupid when they talk.

When will it, like, end?

Olivia, if you're reading this, take heed! :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Raptor
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 04:15 PM

When I was a teenager the girls most popular word was NO!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 04:18 PM

If you have any spare teenage Canadian girls, ship them this way...

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 04:52 PM

It's not just Canada, LH- my 15-year-old high honors daughter uses "like" to distraction! I've started to call her on it, and she's like, Mooooommmmmm!!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Cluin
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 05:04 PM

Nobody just says anything anymore either.

"So she was, like, all "I don't know...". So I was like, 'What IS your problem?' So she goes, 'I don't know' again. So I'm like 'What-EVer!' I mean, like I tried, y'know?"

Seems like the more some people talk, the less they actually have to say. Maybe "like" is replacing "ummm..." That's an annoying habit too.

Another one is the overused, "Kno'm sain?"
No. I don't know. Because you actually haven't said anything yet. I've been waiting and I haven't heard anything but "Kno'm sain?" about twelve times in 10 seconds.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Jeanie
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 05:11 PM

Not only Canada and the United States - it is exactly the same in England. "He was like..." translates as "He said..."

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 05:15 PM

My kid translates it as "Slike" and slike and slike over and over.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: harvey andrews
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 05:19 PM

maybe we need to teach English like a foreign language, like.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Jeanie
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 05:30 PM

Here is this phenomenon personified in the character of "Vicky Pollard" from the BBC comedy series "Little Britain", aptly described by the programme's website as "an incomprehensible girl and the nemesis of many a teacher and social worker". I've come across several real-life Vicky Pollards and I'm like, well, you know, I can't help having a soft spot for them, know what I mean ?" Maybe they've just sent me irreparably crazy...

Hear "Vicky Pollard" in full flow here:
Vicky Pollard in full flow

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: freightdawg
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 05:39 PM

Way astute observation, Little Hawk, dude,

This is truly, like, one of the funniest threads I've read in a while.

Kno'm sain?

It's da bomb! Like totally rad!

I long for the days when things were just cool, far-out and hip.

Shows you how old I am! :-)

Wheezing along,

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 06:22 PM

Like, LH, like is like a word, ya know like? Yanoimsain'? Like like or dislike like it's like, no difference to like, me, yano?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Nancy King
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 06:31 PM

Unfortunately, this patois is not limited to teenage girls (though they do tend to be the worst offenders and sound more than "a bit" stupid). A close relative of mine, who REALLY ought to know better, uses "like" and "y'know" far too often -- one might even say constantly. Pointing it out does not seem to help.

This particular form of slang has persisted for an unusually long time. I remember a marvelous newspaper article about ten years ago which analyzed "like" and other Valley-Girl-isms from the point of view of a grammarian. Wish I could find the copy I was sure I'd saved...

Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:35 PM

For the * * * World Record Holder * * * of "Kno'm sain?" tune in to the incredible Canadian comedy show "Trailer Park Boys" and witness the monologues of J-Roc (also known as "J to the R-O-C") a white, teenage rapaholic from Nova Scotia who only wants to be one of the bruthas, kno'm sain? He deals dope, hangs out with his two Jamaican buddies in the trailer park who have great dreads, and says "kno'm sain?" at least 125 times a minute.

Nancy...yeah, they do sound more than "a bit" stupid, but I was trying to be kind. :-)

Hippies in the early 70's were equally annoying, getting by on a vocabulary of about 20 or less oafish sayings, repeated ad nauseum. It seemed that being articulate was the least desirable thing possible at the time in that peer group. "Like" was pretty popular then too, but was used a bit differently, generally starting up a sentence as I recall, rather than jumping into it every five words or so.

"Oh, Wow..." Just plain..."Wow..." and "Far Out, Man!" were popular. So was "Heavy!" "F....K" (and its derivatives, such as "f--king") was a handy all-purpose standby word that could be used in almost any situation and to convey almost any meaning imaginable.

Like, DUH!

(Note: "Duh!" has recently been replaced by "D'oh!", courtesy of "The Simpson's")

I wonder what Wordsworth or Walt Whitman would think?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 11:11 PM

much of this weakening of the brain is d'recly trcable to AOL chat rms, whr u need 2 keep wrds shrt to answ all ur PMs.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: GUEST,Bobert, like, ahhhh, undercover
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 11:17 PM

Like, ahhhh, yer point, L.H. ?????????

Like nevermind....

Like, later

Like Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: GUEST,Ditzee Lee
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 11:51 PM

Like Mudcat was very welcoming, like, when I first like dropped in. I hope, like this thread doesn't mean like ya'll are dissin' me, ya know what I like mean? Like the first time I like said...

'm like, ah, ya know, this totally happy, um, vallee girl from somewhere on the, um coast, and, like I heard that, um someone named Max, and a bunch of his cats(?), like um, needed some sunshine, so I like came over right away and, um, like I wanted to tell them, um, like the sun, ya know, well, it's really hot, but like it is sooo far away, like ya know it can't burn ya, but ya can get a really cool tan! So, like I just wanted to tell ya Max and tell your cats, or whatever they are man, that um, like, you know, man, like the Sun'll Come Out Tomorrow, um, just like that little girl said in the movie. Like even if ya don't live where I do, it's really cool, cause it goes everywhere...it's just like rolling around in the sky, ya know? And, it's free, isn't that totally awesome and it shines on everybody, 'so cool, nobody hasta pay, like it is just there and no matter, man, it doesn't matter what yer doin' or nothing. If ya just wake up and look out your window, like, it is just THERE, ya know? And, like it's got these really cool vibes that'll make ya feel better, well....unless ya sit out without a sunscreen, but anyway, it's so awesome cause it can warm up your whole body and make it just feel so totally awesome and cool, ya know? And, like pretty soon, you'll feel it inside with those vibes, ya know and you'll feel better, especially if ya wear those really awesome glasses I've got, ya know, the ones where the glass is like rose-coloured, ya know? And, and, um...wow, kool...um, oh yeah, well, that's all I wanted to say...um, anybody else seen the Sunshine...isn't it totally awesome that it comes out everyday, for free??!!! Um, peace, man and good vibes to ya or whatever you, um, old people say to each other.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Alex.S
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 12:16 AM

As an LA native, I feel it my duty to weigh in on this. The term "vally girl" refers not just to *any* stupid Californian, but to one fro mthe San Fernando valley, a particularly unpleasant suburb of Los Angeles that must have one of the highest strip-mall-to-person densities worldwide.
    It's a place that bakes in the summer and freezes in the winter, the kind of place that, with a terrible climate, less culture even than most of Los Angeles, and hiddeous civic style, makes living in LA utterly pointless.
    The Statman Thesis conjectures that the place itself -- the San Fernando vally -- is a veritable breeding ground for all manner of annoying habits. Whether traceable to its marked ability to attract residents with absolutely no taste or the lack of anything better for them to do than think up no ways to be irritating has yet to be discerned, and begs for more ample research.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Alex.S
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 12:17 AM

And there I go, on my very first sentence, splitting infinitives. My word.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: SueB
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 12:54 AM

It doesn't really matter, LH - they're just talking to hear their heads rattle, like most people, and they don't really listen to each other any way.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 01:25 AM

Imean, like... WOW, dude! You are SO on it! I'm like... sitting here trying to chill... all tired like, from working way hard... and you had to bring this up. Like... my mind's all racing... and I've like... got nothing to say, really... Excellent! This thread is so totally on it! Like... I'm saying to myself... just jell Thomas, Little Hawk is spouting lapsang soushong, and like... where's my cup?

Likably Yours, ttr
Not Lick-a-billy bud...

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:12 AM

Here in't North of England "like" is used at the end of the sentence. Know what I mean, like ?.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: leprechaun
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:46 AM

My son was twelve and I dropped him off at the local paintball palace to splat some friends. When I came back to pick him up, he and some new friends were saying "Dude" way too much. I calmly told him that every time he said the word "dude," it destroyed brain cells. I never heard him say it again.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:19 AM

Well, it beats the vernacular of many (if not most) pubescent boys. They seem to go through a most irritating stage of homophobia and racial bigotry that takes about 10 years to run it's course (if ever). Symptoms include using the words "loser", "fag", "gay", "nigger-coon" etc (sorry to sound so offensive, but them's the goods!) every 30 seconds or so.

My twins kept this up ad nauseum for years, until I was ready to, like, tear both their heads off ....

My youngest son was finally cured of this a couple summers ago. He'd been particularly tickled by a certain line in a song by The Insane Clown Posse (he certainly did NOT inherit his musical tastes from me!), and used it as often as possible just to disgust and annoy me, I think. Please go ahead and censor this if it's too offensive, but the line was "eatabowlofdicks".

Well I suffered with that bowl in my space for months until he made the mistake of using the line as a screen name on the website where he plays euchre and poker. Believe it or not, within 3 days "eatabowlofdicks" had received more than a couple serious-sounding romantic proposals from other males on that site! This really floored him, he changed his screen name in horror and his vocabulary has improved IMMENSELY ever since. Ha ha HA!

WHich was, like, quite the relief for me eh?

daylia


PS Little Hawk, do you think the frustration you feel with the vocabulary of teenage girls has anything to do with them LOOKING good, yet at the same time SOUNDING so, like, vapid? If so, maybe ear-plugs would help when you girl-watch ...

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Gervase
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:25 AM

It's, like, driving me to distraction. Thankfully it does seem to be curable - my own daughter now only uses it deliberately to wind me up, and then with a disarming grin.
The other affliction seems to be the rising terminal, which turns every statement into a question. It seems particularly common in Australian women and black British teenagers, but is spreading rapidly. It's hard to depict in print, but you have to imagine that the end of the sentence, like, goes up in pitch to a querulous tone? As if you don't really have confidence on what you're saying? And don't want, like, to offend?
Gets on my chimes big time, that one!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:32 AM

When I lived in Wisconsin, I taught a class for adults (mid to late 20s) on giving oral presentations. These were all individuals with at least one college degree. As each presented, the rest of the class critiqued-and we always had one person with the responsibility for counting the "likes" and another tracked the "y'knows." The initial figures were astounding, but being called on it made them more conscious of their speech habits and, by the time the program was over, most had effectively eliminated these words.

An'like y'know, they was all like from Minnesota and like y'know Wisconsin, an' there wasn't like a Val like anywhere in the like group, y'know?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:25 AM

Like, when in, like, disgrace with fortune and men's eyes, ya know
I like all alone beweep my like outcast state
And like trouble like deaf heaven with my like bootless cries
And like look upon myself and like curse my fate ya know
Wishing myself like him like more rich in like hope
Like featured like him, like him with friends, like, possessed
Desiring, like, this man's art and that man's like, scope, ya know,
Like haply I think on, like thee,
And then my, like, heart from the like sullen earth
At the like, break of day, like, arising
Sings like hymns at Heaven's, like, gate, ya know,
For thy, like, sweet love, like remembered such, like, wealth brings
That then I like scorn to like change my like state with, like, ya know,            Kings, ya know?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:44 AM

The use of "like" indicates an ironic, or perhaps non-identified stance, such that the speaker is (a) framing the discourse as separable, for example, as in television comedy, where the actors break out of the presumed illusion and speak directly to the audience, or to an imagined audience -- "Can you believe this?" -- thus enshrining that there is indeed an audience for every action, eg. "So, like he was saying this, and I was, like, get real...." -- the narrator replays the action not exactly, but similarly -- "like" is a form of similitude; (b) distancing oneself through similitude, because of a not very firm belief in the reality of oneself, or the world, or anything -- e.g. "So, like, whatever." "Like" here allows one to present, but without committment to the world being described, thus echoing (as in (a)) the warded off existential dread that one might not actually be real, that one might be living in a suburb with all these drekky people like forever.

In case you wanted to, like, know.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:48 AM

P.S. "you know" -- a submerged plea for confirmation that the speaker's realm is corroborated by the auditor, at the least in the form of a mutual conspiracy or hallucination.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Allan C.
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 10:03 AM

I once shared a house with a number of people, one of which fell in love with the phrase, "Right on with the heavies." I tolerated this as best I could for what seemed like months; but I finally succumbed to a deep seated urge. Imagine his surprise when, after he uttered the dreaded phrase once again, I burst forth from another room, screaming like a beast from hell, wrestled him to the ground and bit him on the ankle!

I am pleased to say, he never used the phrase again.

Therapeutic measures such as this do not come more highly recommended.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 10:07 AM

For sure!

RtS
(like, or more correctly loik!, was common in and around Birmingham UK long before the Valley Girls were twinkles in their parents eyes!)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Raptor
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:30 AM

I'm sick of SO as in "I'm so not gonna do it"

and ALL ABOUT as in "I'm all about value!"

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: GUEST,Corridus
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:39 AM

Well, hamsters have much better diction than that. I think monsters (what you call "people") have these problems because of all the artificial substances they eat, drink, and breathe in. It clouds their minds and then they can't think or talk properly.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:52 AM

To back up a bit, I followed the link above and listened to "Vickie Pollard" from the Little Britain TV show. Yes, it was incomprehensible.

But surely "Vickie" is a male. What do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Allan C.
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:55 AM

Frankly, I think "Vickie" is very much like the American "Pat".

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 12:52 PM

Young man, you will note that while you were asleep, I have attached a collar around your neck. This collar is an electronic marvel. It contains programmable computer chips. I got the idea from an episode of the original Star Trek and borrowed from the work of Russian researcher Ivan Petrovich Pavlov.

The chips contained in the collar are programmed to deliver a painful and debilitating electric shock any time the incorporated microphone picks up the word "like," unless it is in a context that indicates either specific simile or a state of preference or mild affection. It will deliver a similar shock if it hears "y'know" without a reference to the person you are addressing having specific knowledge of the subject under discussion. Likewise, "dude" will trigger the shock unless it is in reference to a western vacation ranch for urban-dwellers. And any time it picks up "well, DUH!" in reference to someone else's intelligence, it will deliver a particularly strong shock to your genital area. There are a number of other trigger words which you will soon discover, and if the need arises, the collar can be programmed with additional words and expressions.

I realize that, since you have a vocabulary of only fourteen words, this will severely curtail your already highly limited communication abilities, but I have provided you with assistance there. That heavy book I have place in your backpack is a dictionary. Read it. Study it. Learn some words.

And by the way, pull up your pants. You look like a dork.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Jeanie
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 01:04 PM

Leeneia: you're quite right. "Vicky" is played by Matt Lucas. He and David Walliams write the script and play a variety of characters in "Little Britain", male and female. It started out as a radio show and transferred to BBC TV last year. Glad you liked the delightfully incomprehensible Vicky.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 01:14 PM

I was like, so into this, then I like, remembered the "yous" thread, and it got real, ya know like, old?

Like, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 01:19 PM

ah, Gervase! I have been complaining about that 'rising tone at the end of a sentence' for several years! There is tendency to also 'hold' that final word for an extra half beat or so, thus enhancing the querelous nature of it.
It is not 'new'...as I now hear young, female 'news-readers' on TV using it at times. It seems to a mostly girl-thing, and I'm at a loss to imagine what it shows about their inner self.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: *daylia*
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:53 PM

Don, you absolute fountain of, y'know, wisdom you .... where WERE you when I, like, needed you so BAD?

:-)   daylia

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:18 PM

Bill, I thnk U wl fnd that the shrtnng of wrds stems frm the prctice of txtng on mbl phones rther than frm aol chtrms

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:29 PM

The slightly rising inflection at the end of a sentence is a Canadian trait, though not as much as with Australians who sound to us like every statement is a question. Americans speak with a more downward inflection, unless they are asking a question.

Just our respective habits. I don't think it is indicative of anything confidence-wise.

There was a program on the CBC a couple of weeks ago on Speaking Canadian which dealt with this. It also dealt with the increasing and widespread use of the word "like" amongst the young.

Interestingly, it also stated that our accents, etc. are becoming more localized, not more universal and that television has had little or no influence on this. People talk to other people, not to televisions (if they aren't unbalanced, that is). They stated that it was possible to now distiguish between, say, the accents of the Toronto area and the Ottawa area and that in the future this would become more pronounced.

A friend's Scottish wife said my northern Ontario accent was very different from the southern Ontario accents she heard every day when they were living here. We couldn't hear that difference ourselves, but she stated that it was quite plain.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:12 PM

So, like...whaddya sain, Cluin? Kno'm sain? I'm, like, SOOOO not into this whole thing, like...? Kno'm sain? I'm, like, ALL about communication, dude. How 'bout you?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: JenEllen
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:17 PM

Has anyone gotten "Sick" yet? That was the new word run ragged around here this fall. You pronounce it "siiiiiiiiiick". The closest I can come to translation is that it's the new 'awesome', and it usually has to do with physical feats, as in: "D'ja see'em fly off the ramp?" "Yeah, that was sick." I'm getting to where I'd like kill for a simple fer'shure, like, y'know?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:26 PM

"Siiiick!" hasn't made the rounds here yet, I'm happy to say.

But "You go, girl" is getting, like, really "old".

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:35 PM

Thanks for the explanation, jeannie.

I knew the setup was fishy when I could understand every word that the barrister said.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:47 PM

I'm not sure, LH. But I know north Ontarians don't use the word "flippin'".   ;)

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:52 PM

Yeah. It's a euphemism for you-know-what.

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:16 PM

"Friggin'" ?

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:27 PM

recent news story.....

Many Universities are offering "like" remedial speech courses. Seems that, when these young students are entering the job market, "like" is becoming a real drag on their ability to land the good jobs.

Seems employers question the intelligence of those who over-use the word "like".

I'm like, so sure!

Subject: RE: BS: I'm, like, 'Whatever...'
From: Allan C.
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:49 PM

I saw this one girl? And she wore her hair down like this? When she was in that coffee shop down on Fourth Street? Where they serve that huge double latte with the colored sprinkles? And she was wearing one of those sweaters? Like the ones you see on "Buffy"? Only hers was...

Throw in a generous sprinkling of "like" and you get the idea. I sometimes think the abbreviated sentence phrases with the upward inflections are simply an attempt on the speaker's part to compensate for the (probably accurately) presumed short attention span of the listener. It implies to the listener an opportunity to indicate that some ingredient, vital to the narrative, was not understood.