The role of folk clubs today

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,SteveM
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 03:26 PM

I think Daves hit it on the head, young people dont go because they want to dance around and be jolly,they may not listen as hard as us old people do, but they enjoy it.
I agree with the last sentiment as well, lets stop worrying about young people and make folk clubs places we want to be.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 02:37 PM

You little devil you :-)

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 02:31 PM

If I remember when I was young (the late 60's, by definition a bad time for memory cells) I didn't folk.   That was mainly because the principal purpose of a young man's life is to f**k. Hormones 'n' stuff. Dance was then and may still now be the primary socionormal way to start physical contact (with a view to a f**k). Ergo I went to discos (indeed I ran a mobile one) and preferred bands that played danceable (quite a wide range in the university context) music. Those who did not go out with the same primary purpose and indeed were not socially prepared to be seen to be pursuing that social purpose went to folk clubs. Many women students did. It was part of the polarisation of the times.


Folk guitarists however found folk clubs successful hunting grounds (no names, no pack drill) but the rest of of us either did not believe or could not emulate.

The early 60s may have been different - I think then the dancefloor sent a different social message, and the hunter on those plains needed perseverance - whereas the folk club (and maybe then jazz club, remember beatniks?) probably showed a distribution skewed towards the less conventional and so increased the prospect of a truncation of the socio-normal waiting time - a positive cocking of a snook at society.

Bring that up to the present day - the reason the young don't find folk clubs interesting is the opportunities for sexual hunting are limited, whereas festivals even folk festivals may be quite the opposite.

Got to go - going to a folk club (well pub session) and fancy the landlady.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 01:50 PM

Blimey Treewind, you have a point there.

If I think back 38 years, we were all young, including Martyn Wyndham Reid with his long gold curly locks of hair and Cyril Tawny who must have been in his mid thirties when I saw him.

Does anybody go to see Glen Miller anymore (course they don't, he's dead) or The Black and White Minstrals, which my father loved and still does at the ripe age of 88. I doubt very much if I will ever want to watch that sort of music.

So where does folk go from there. Get into the schools and encourage the youngsters to come and play at the folk clubs. Is that daft, as we say in Brum.

Last week I saw 2 young ladies perform "woudn't it be luverly" supported by Hillary Waterfall who plays with the Riverhead Ranters from Louth, at the De Aston Secondary School. Hilary tells me that the arrangement was a copy from the poozie's. I thought they were very brave to try it, but their voices were great, and I was smitten by the way they did it. I also heard a young lad sing a Billy Bragg number apart from other numbers. He is very talented. I am hoping that I can persuade them to come to the Market Rasen Folk Club as and when it gets started, and sing (haven't sorted that out yet). I strongly believe that encouraging young people to show what they are made of, even if they move on to other types of music.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Myrtle
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 01:38 PM

Hi Dave,
You've hit the nail right into the lid, had a great night Mon, and Swinton is always enjoyable.
'Norma Waterson manquee' refs. Can they mean me??
See you next time I'm on Walton Mountain!
Myrtle

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: treewind
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 01:19 PM

I think folk clubs are only boring to young people becasue they are full of old people.

When I was young folk clubs were full of young people and they weren't boring at all...

Anahata

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 12:33 PM

So - Dave is right really - folk clubs as they stand are not going to be attractive to most young people. But then they are not attractive to most older people either. We are a minority.
The question is whether we should be worrying about it.
I am a member of the local canoe club - and we don't tend to attract a huge amount of rowers to our club. That is because we like what we like, and they like something different. They have their club, we have ours and everyone is happy. Young people will go to their own kind of venue, start one if they want to, not if they don't. The music is not going to die out, even if all us old fogies drop dead one by one & leave the folk club dwindled down to nothing.
So what is it we want from these young folkies? Are we wanting to pass on the old trad baton? Or are we getting bored with our own format and wishing someone young & vibrant would come in and liven us up? In which case I wonder if the real point is that we just need to inject some energy and passion into the clubs and make them somewhere WE want to be, instead of worrying about trying to appeal to the rest of the populace.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 12:31 PM

D of M - if you want to get pissed and loon around (which is fine, I've done it often), go to a drinking/dancing club. If you want to LISTEN to traditional and contemporary songs and tunes played live (or even have a go yourself) go to a folk club. It's unreasonable and unrealistic to go to one type of club and expect to behave as you would in the other, not to mention unfair on other participants.

All the other moaners - no wonder clubs are dying with you negative lot around. Jonahs, the lot of you.

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 12:18 PM

Dave
you don't have to do it all the time, just some of the time.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Dave of Mawkin
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 11:03 AM

Ok.
I see your point, and I supose I can get tired of jumping around like a fool. And at that point Id like to listen closely.

But I think when people wonder why young people are not going to folk clubs, its not because they are unwelcoming areas, as any young person who goes clubbing or out drinking,most places are unwelcoming, and young people dont usually give a crap.Its because its not the right environment for a young person to be in.
Sure at times, it can be nice to sit around and listen, but folk clubs want this all the time, and speaking as a young person, IMO its not something young people want to do all the time.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 10:27 AM

>>
I get a lot of pleasure from listening closely to the music and words that people are performing - and really appreciate the chance to do so in a quiet environment.
<<

Coudn't have said it better meself.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:27 AM

It depends on your perspective though, doesn't it. On the one hand its fun to get silly-drunk & dance around. But then I don't want people dancing around silly-drunk whilst I'm performing.
I get a lot of pleasure from listening closely to the music and words that people are performing - and really appreciate the chance to do so in a quiet environment.
Dave of M - I think that folk clubs in their general format bore you (and they would have bored me when I was younger)- but I don't think its fair to say that they are boring as such. It depends what you want, and that does change as you age. You might like them later on...


AND - I WANT MY 5 MINUTES OF FAME!!! (do I need a beard then?)

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Dave of Mawkin
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:50 AM

Speaking as a young person, I hate folk clubs, mainly because theyre boring.
You cant be yourself in a folk club, you have to conform and to me that means a lot, If i cant get silly drunk and dance around like a fool then I aint happy.
The friends I have taken to folk club have said ( and I qoute) 'They are repulsively depressing dingy dark rooms, with these strange bearded people that want their 5 minutes of fame'

however when he went to Chippenham, he said 'one of the best weekend of my life' I think that says it all to me.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,Sooz(at work)
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:14 AM

What a lot of comments since I last dropped in! More from me:-
1. We don't charge people to listen to crap floorsingers.
2. We only make a charge on guest nights.
3. We rarely hear crap floorsingers. The may be inexperienced or under-rehearsed but they are doing their best and may even get better.We all had to start somewhere.
4. Its all about sharing music and if they give me a fair hearing I owe them the same in return.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 06:01 AM

breezy, you've got it in one agree 100%.
It's a great shame that many more people dont think like you, we could then get over the hurdle of the "inner circle" mentioned earlier in the thread. People must stop acting in an elite fashion and folk environments will be a better place.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: breezy
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 05:47 AM

to get us out and about and away from the tele, to eat and drink and escape,


and generally, not give a damn.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,JAne
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 04:09 AM

Hi everyone, what great discussion! thanks

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 01:45 AM

If I do go with the local Cricket and Football Club facilities, they have 200 - 300 members. I don't think that includes the children.

In setting up the Folk Club, I am aware that there is a big potential to attract quite a few listeners. In the beginning, I am assuming that none of these people will come and watch. But if 1 person from that club, does come and watch and says it was crap, I may as well shut up shop, because the whole of the club will know about it and the rest of the town (3500 residents).

If it is good, then I am hoping over time that more people will come along. The more listeners I get, the better chance I have of offering some sort of recompense to the regular singers.

So I have to work a fine balance betweeen the artists and the listeners.

So far the artists who have said they will come and sing/play have a good track record, and from what I can see are genuinly interested in promoting the club and folk. That at least gives me a good chance of pulling this off.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 07:31 PM

I have not read this thread at all so sorry if I am repeating someone elses view. This was, however, completely on purpose. I saw the thread title and realised how I should answer it, having just come back from the folk club. A few pints of Hartleys XB. A night by an artist I admire but do not particularly follow and I feel I am an authority!

The role of the folk club is for people to enjoy themselves. Pure and simple hedonism if you like! I have had a great night. I will have another great night next week. What is wrong with people enjoying themselves with no idea about tradition or whatever?

Cheers

And carry on enjoying the discussion...

DtG

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,Cittern
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:37 PM

It isn't surprising given all his experience, but Harvey Andrews described the situation perfectly.

The only point I might argue with is the "but not in the modern pub" comment. As a sound man/driver/roadie I have toured across the UK with Julie Ellison playing folk clubs, arts centres, festivals and pubs.

Many folk club organisers look down their noses at anyone who plays pub gigs but be assured, there is a mighty amount of original acoustic music rooted firmly in the traditions of ragtime, blues and folk currently being played to appreciative and knowledgeable audiences in pubs across the UK.

They may often be smokey. They may often be noisy. They may attract a totally different audience to those who attend the folk clubs and arts centres, but the demand for good acoustic-based music in the pub environment is very high. And although they may be a different crowd, it is interesting to see how many make the effort the attend the arts centre gigs having discovered the artist in their local pub.

I guess I am saying that there shouldn't be barriers, and I guess I am also saying that the music will live on - in many different environments.

All the best
John Robinson
http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:36 PM

I'm all for the trend to use community venues in a bid to attract a whole cross section of people, those to whom our traditional heritage actually belongs. At a recent community centre performance by Chris Wood and storyteller Hugh Lupton I met people who had till then only a hazy and distorted notion of what 'folk music' is, but found they liked it.

Rather less fortuitively, the younger element was in the room next door belting out garage but they were in the same building at least ant maybe next time the twain might mingle?

I am also strongly in favour of a further trend of certain forward-looking artists to take gigs in nightclubs and cellar bars with a cross-genre booking policy. I have seen Spiers & Boden follow a Japanese techno band and go down a storm as well as selling armfuls of CDs to an interested, open-minded audience with no prior conception of what English traditional music was but liked what they had heard.

World music, however, is not a genre confined exclusively to concert halls and the Andy Kershaw programme. It's on every street corner where I live in Notting Hill and elsewhere. It's a real part of our lives and I hear it being adapted and incorporated into English music as multiculturalism becomes more and more a part of how we live today.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: treewind
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 05:53 PM

A hint from a friend who does run a good club - and he and I are always talking about the subject - he has a couple of regulars who are really not brilliant musicians or singers but good club supporters in many ways. His verdict "they're never going to get any better but they're giving 100%". That's his criterion for everyone - if you look and sound like you are making some effort for the audience, many of whom aren't folkies and don't know a famous name from a totally obscure one, they will appreciate it, and conversely you don't have to be an expert to smell bullshit or arrogance, which incidentally excludes some well known performers from his booking policy. No names, no pack drill.

And returning gently to the topic of the role of folk clubs - I'll add something I said earlier about the trend I see of folk clubs moving to larger community venues. When done right, they do attract local people who aren't folkies, like the one I mentioned above and another which is run by the landlord of the local pub but the folk club isn't in the pub - it's in the village hall opposite where parents can and do bring their children sometimes and though there's a bar it's not a building primarily made for drinkers. My point is that the whole enterprise is a community event and that seems a good, outward-looking, direction for a club to be taking.

By the way, the places I'm talking about are thriving and nobody would call either of them a world music venue. Compared with folk clubs, world music is big money entertainment that is only affordable in bigger concert venues.

Anahata

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 05:29 PM

I think she did, you know, or at least that's how the punters are going to see it when obliged to sit through a procession of untried, underrehearsed chancers and complacent regulars whose idea of 'preparation' is a swift thumb through a dogeared tune or songbook.

If a club is charging £6 or so for the privilege of sitting in their usually not too comfortable, dingy pub backroom you need to present them with something a bit more professional than this if you expect them ever to return.

Way back then, we'd sit all night on hard benches in the Cousins or the Troubadour drinking nothing but disgusting coffee and imagining we were all brilliant. We weren't, of course, but some are still doing exactly the same stuff, and just as badly.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 05:13 PM

>>
And others have an amazing ability to piss off both audience and floor singers by getting it all wrong. I've seen that happen too...
<<

Bloody hell I hope that doesn't happen to me. :-)

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: treewind
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 05:10 PM

Clearly one can't please everybody. One man's "welcoming and inclusive policy" is another man's "I didn't pay money to listen to these crap floorsingers". Nevertheless skilful organisers have the ability to apply the right discrimination and strike a balance that keeps enough people coming back for more. And others have an amazing ability to piss off both audience and floor singers by getting it all wrong. I've seen that happen too...

Anahata

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:54 PM

Guest
Can't see many listeners coming in with that sort of attitude.

I don't think Sooz said that at all.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:44 PM

Sooz has summed it up nicely
"anyone who is prepared to perform" - the paying customers can f*ck off.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: LesB
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 01:55 PM

Pied Piper seems to have a down on folk clubs. He doesn't have to go to one, just leave them alone for those who do.
I agree there are clubs struggling, due to a number of reasons, some of which are already mentioned.
As I see it there are several different types of club.
1) What I think of as a standard club such as my regular. Where we have a singers night one week followed by a guest night the next.
2) Then there is the concert type of clubs, such as seem to win the awards. (Maybe because Mike Harding & co only ask the big names he features on his show and their like & The concert clubs are the only ones that can afford them)?
3)Then there are singers clubs that have an occasional guest.
3) Acoustic venues/open mike nights (there's a contradiction in terms). I don't think of them as clubs myself.
4) Then there's sessions & singerounds.
I have no knowledge of 'World Music' venues, there seems to be concerts & festivals, but clubs? I don't know.
Les

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 07:33 AM

I get your point Guest. :-)

This all helps me to make sure I dont fall into that trap.

As I dont sing etc, I am hoping that I am able to see the wood from the trees.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:33 AM

Villan not everyone who can see why folk clubs are dying a death have had bad experiences. They are just not blinkered into thinking they are perfect.They can see what is wrong, as has been pointed out by some above.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:25 AM

Pied Piper
Can you explain a bit more, what you mean by "below stairs types". I think I understand what you mean, but would like your explanation, and what is it that you mean by controversial? You sound as though you have had bad experiences, and I would like to know what they are.

I would then like to hear what peoples view points are on that.

Once again, this can help me greatly when I get my club up and running.

Thanks

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Pied Piper
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 06:12 AM

Guest has it in a nutshell.
One of the many reasons for the decline in attendance at folk clubs is the attitude of the "regulars" who consider that the club and the music belong to them, and don't want to share it with the below stairs types.
Just watch them squirm if someone sings something vaguely controversial.
Folk clubs are dieing a death that they have worked hard to achieve.
Good riddance.
The music will not die.
PP

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 05:18 AM

>>
Anyone who comes prepared to perform gets a fair hearing and a warm welcome from the "inner circle" who are often prepared to miss their turn to leave more time for a newcomer or someone who has travelled a great distance.
<<

That is a very good policy Sooz, and I am sure appreciated very much by people who are given that chance.
It's not easy is it, but I suppose you have to be flexible and give as many people as possible, an oportunity. Otherwise artists will stop coming.

I hope I remember your words when the heat is on when I get going.

>>
In return we expect them to give us a fair hearing and to fit in with our ethos. Latecomers who expect to take over are not welcome!
<<

I support that wholeheartedly.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Sooz
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:58 AM

We operate an equal opportunities policy in Gainsborough. Anyone who comes prepared to perform gets a fair hearing and a warm welcome from the "inner circle" who are often prepared to miss their turn to leave more time for a newcomer or someone who has travelled a great distance. In return we expect them to give us a fair hearing and to fit in with our ethos. Latecomers who expect to take over are not welcome!
Working in this way, we have a full house for almost every meeting. The only time our numbers fall is when we have a guest artist.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:35 AM

Only read first few posts so apologise if I'm repeating what has already been said. I agree with first quest when they state that you have to get past the "inner circle" and over the barbed wire. Until the older (NOT ALL) members give a warmer welcome to people outside the inner circle, drop their defences, and stop demonstrating elitism the young and old will stay away. This I believe is a great shame they have their part to play in developing this tradition, it is not yours or theirs to keep, but for all to share and enjoy.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,The Cott
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:32 AM

This argument comes round and round, and one comment that always appears is:

"I don't know what you people are worrying about - I went to go and see John Kirkpatrick/Martin Carthy last month at Spuds Folk Club and the place was packed."

Yes, well the place probably was packed, that was because John K/Martin C were playing, and that is why you were there. What about the rest of the year? The place is depressingly empty.

-cjc

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Sooz
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 04:09 AM

Mike and I go to a lot of folk clubs and they are all different! I reckon thats the whole point because there is something for everyone both as a participant and as a listener.
We like to receive a warm welcome, some friendly abuse and to hear a wide variety of music. Thats the atmosphere we try to create at our club here in Gainsborough (and we do have some talented young members when their University studies allow them to join us).

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 02:13 AM

Guest, why don't you reveal yourself? You have some good points to make and it is so much nicer to talk to a face!

Would I be right in thinking that you might not be English, and that you are finding it hard to get a footing into the English Folk Club scene?

As a rank outsider, who after 38 years of being on the fringe of folk music, but still enjoying it, via the Radio - Radio lincolnshire and Derbyshire and CD's (compilations), I will attempt to put forward what I think an English Folk Club is.

To me an English Folk Club is all about tradition and atmosphere, with a very friendly attitude from the people that attand. It is almost like a family. To me the artists know their trade and it is part of their life. Its not just music, its about poetry and verse, people who are keeping old traditional crafts going. I suppose its about heritage.
I live in Market Rasen - Lincolnshire/England now, having also lived in Birmingham - Warwickshire/England, Graingemouth in Scotland, Amsterdam in the Netherlands, London - England, Bracknell - Bershire/England and Paignton Devon/England.
I guess the point I am trying to make, is that wherever I am, English Folk Music conjures up a picture for me, which I like.
That doesn't mean that it is English Folk Music. It is really British Folk Music in the main (English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh).
If you lived in Scotland, you woudn't call it an English Folk Club (only if you were English - :-)).
I beleive that anybody who has a tradition to uphold, whichever country they come from, must surely be classed as part of the Folk scene.
It doesn't mean that I am going to like all of it. If I went to a folk club in this country, and the artists were all foreign and didn't speak English, I would be interested in their Folklore, but am not sure I would enjoy it, because it probably isn't what I want to hear and I can't understand them. So i probably wouldn't go back again. That would be my choice.
Where I live (a small town of approx 3500 inhabitants) in rural Lincolnshire, their perception of what folk music is, is likely to be far different say to London. The number of people who would attend would be far smaller. They are more likely to enjoy what's on offer from artists who come from the Lincolnshire area.

I have no idea if what I have just said makes any sense or not, but it is what I think - rightly or wrongly.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:14 PM

You are right,folk music is not defined as better/worse due to where it hails from.

But I think the interesting thing is, that it is traditional english folk clubs that are in the decline. At a time when there is an increasing interest in "world music" here in England.

If other cultures are enjoying a resurgence in the celebration of their folk music here, why do you think the english interest is waning. The subject of it's decline is not my opinion alone, it has been the subject of many a thread.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 07:05 PM

This discussion is bedevilled by differing assumptions about what the words used mean.

For example a club that only books singer-songwriters (who presumably in that context only sing their own songs) may be an excellent club. It may or may not be an acoustic music club. But it is not a folk club, any more than the All Wheel Drive Club is the Ramblers Association.

It is also bedevilled by territorial assumptions. What is folk music in America (or Japan, or Germany, or France) is not the folk music of England (and vice versa). It does not make either better or worse.

But it does heavily influence the answer to the question.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: LesB
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 06:52 PM

Who says folk clubs are in decline? I,ve just got back from watching John Kirkpatrick performing to an audience of 100 at our club Bothy .
Maybe guest lives in London (ref the Festival hall). It's a much more cosmopolitan society down in 'the smoke'.
Although last week at a singers night we had songs in German, French & Yiddish. Mind you I didn't enjoy them much!

Les

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 06:07 PM

What we call 'English traditional music' today was the popular music of another era. In the meantime, it's been classicised and, once again, 'reclaimed'. What is presented as 'world music' may indeed be the popular or classical music of the culture from whence it came. So just what is the problem? (Apart from the futility of labelling?) I listen to music if it's good. If it's not, I turn it off or walk out, whatever the genre.

I don't think English traditional music is 'becoming' a minority interest. It *is* a minority interest, rightly or wrongly, always has been. Is this the music's fault? I don't really think so.   The fault lies with those who either wish, inexplicably, to keep it hidden or those who, for equally obscure reasons, have contrived to convince an entire generation to disown and ridicule our cultural inheritence.

If this is so, in the words of Chris Wood, our children can, equally, be taught to value it and, eventually, given the courage to add to it.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:57 PM

I would imagine the folk clubs that actually operate in those countries are doing very, very well.

The ones that operate in England are in the decline.Why do you think that could be?

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:52 PM


To reflect hopefully the roots/traditions of the population as a whole.Folk clubs will not be thought of as an exclusively english bastion.


Exclusively English? Have I imagined all the Irish, Scottish, Welsh, French, American and even Japanese music that I have heard in the folk clubs of England over the years? Perhaps our anonymous guest should get out more.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:34 PM

Ok...........I was trying, evidently very unclearly, to say that I think the future of folk clubs will remain, but the music played at such will change. To reflect hopefully the roots/traditions of the population as a whole.Folk clubs will not be thought of as an exclusively english bastion. Sure there will be clubs dedicated to just that,english folk music, and others dedicated with equal fervour to the folk music of their audiences.

Of course traditional english folk will remain,why wouldn't it? But it will just be one example of folk music. I would like to see folk music of many cultures celebrated.It is today, under the clumsy but recognisable heading of world music, and while I agree with the comment above that world music is often the pop of that particular country, I do not feel that that is criticism.Anything that gives exposure to other nations music, is a good thing , I think.And it is often peoples first introduction to suchlike, they can then decide if they like the sound and explore further.

The WOMAD festivals and all it's associated artists are a very successful concern.They would not think folk clubs are declining, because they would not assume the only folk clubs operating are english. The Royal Festival Hall sells out regularly when showcasing what could be termed folk music from other countries.Folk music is alive and well in many cultures.Why do you you think english folk music is becoming such a minority interest?

Organizations that oppose change and are in the decline, will either accept the world is changing, or become extinct.

I have just reread this, and it is still not much clearer.....but please don't take it personally. It is my opinion only.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:09 PM

"Your assumption that it only meant english folk music is perhaps the reason they are dying on their feet. "

Hi Guest I wasn't really sure about the above comment! :-)

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 05:07 PM

Sorry Villan I don't know what you assumed.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 04:29 PM

Sorry Guest was that aimed at me or somebody else?

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 04:10 PM

The role of folk clubs today....is what was asked in the original post. Your assumption that it only meant english folk music is perhaps the reason they are dying on their feet.

Subject: RE: The role of folk clubs today
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Feb 04 - 02:31 PM

Thanks Anahata.
Do you know I hadn't thought of the beginners first and the club starting later.
I thought originally that the beginners might like mixing it at the end. Then it got to maybe in the middle.

I am convinced if the more experienced artists assist the less experienced, that will give them confidence and will eventually get them to the point where they demand a spot.

I suppose its the same in all walks of life. The experienced taking time to nurture and train the inexperienced. The benefits are enormous. It might be a pain to begin with, but if you don't help them, they will never learn. This applies to bringing youngsters onto the scene.

Les