BS: Who are your heroes

Subject: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:24 AM

So long as one doesn't hero-worship; I've always thought heroes are a good thing. We need other people to look up to, to admire for one reason or another. The quality that distinguishes a hero is courage. It can be the courage of Bob Dylan singing protest songs in the deep South or continuing to front of a rock band despite the hostility of his own fan base. It can be Nelson Mandela facing possible death or spending most of his life in prison fighting a system he hated. Courage is the key. A hero isn't just someone you admire. They have to risk something –life or reputation- to achieve hero status.

I've got a truckload of them. At the risk of sounding insipid, my hero is Jesus. I am an atheist and do not believe in spirituality, which is the antithesis of rationalism. However, I do believe that we need a set of codes, a morality if you will, to live our lives by, and to impart to our children. Any man who encourages us to love our enemies and to despise wealth is the sort of man to whom we should introduce our children. The Sermon on the Mount is the most inspiring philosophy ever been spoken by man.

His courage is an example to us all. To go into the Temple and throw out the money lenders shows a righteous indignation that we should all have when we come across gross hypocrisy. Ofcourse, he became the first martyr to his own cause. To see his values being corrupted by his own followers for the next 2000 years is a tragedy. Even as a rationalist who does not believe Jesus died to save my soul ( something Christians added later on and which Jesus would have had no truck with –they even nicked the idea from a pagan religion for chrissakes), he has something to say to us to this very day. I love Jesus: hate his father.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Cats
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:15 AM

Rosa Parkes, Tony Benn, The Pankhurst's - all of the women, Desmond Tutu ... try working out which 10 people have had the most prolific effect on your life and then see who your heroes really are.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:34 AM

People like Sally Rooke.

The ordinary folks who plug away, day after day, so their families can have something to eat even though they might go to bed hungry.

Boudica.

Farmers who feed us all.

People like those.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 07:14 AM

Captain James Cook. One of the greatest of explorers and mapmakers. His charts are still used today in the Pacific as they are so accurate. He also helped to devise the cure for scurvy and assisted Woolf in the taking of Quebec.

Commander Chris Wreford-Brown. A submarine captain who inspired his crew by calm leadership in a number of tight situtations.

Gladys Aylward, a parlour maid who became a missionary in China in the 1930's. Hers was the first biography I read connected with China. I am still amazed at what she did.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 08:33 AM

Jesus, Nelson Mandela, Rosa Parks, Pete Seeger who defied the House UnAmerican activities committee by refusing to take the 5th, but rather the 1st during the witch hunts of the 50's.
Utah Phillips who tells it like I see it.

Max Siegel who gave us the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Raptor
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 09:24 AM

My Daddy!

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,An English Patriot
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 02:06 PM

Apart from the historical figure of Jesus, my heroes include Garibaldi, Mandela, Alfred the Great, Martha Gellhorn, John Pilger, Oliver Cromwell, Thomas Paine, William Cobbett, Chomsky, Winston Churchill, and Fidel. I also admire Janos Kadar who introduced a more humane form of Leninism/Marxism into Hungary. There was a lot wrong with communisim; but there was a lot about which I liked, and Janos Kadar made Hungary a pretty decent place to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 02:53 PM

OLIVER CROMWELL!!???

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:07 PM

Oliver Cromwell????

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:08 PM

Kendall - you sound as surprised as some of us Brits might be if you'd said George Washington!

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Megan L
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 03:11 PM

My Mum

Paul Robson

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Deckman
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:17 PM

This might be a long post, but you don't have to read it if you don't 'wanna! I'm going to agree with "Raptor," in that my Daddy is my hero. He always was and he always will be. I'll justify it by giving two examples of his actions:

While my Father was born in the U.S.A., he was born into, and raised within a pure Finnish community. Both of his parents had immigrated from Finlad (Suomi) in the 1890's. As the son of immigrants, he was always sensitive to immigrant issues. He was raised within the "pure" Finn culture. The schools was taught in Finn, the language of the Church was Finn, all the neighbors spoke only Finn. This was a very common story in the midwest (Minnesota) in the early years of this nations' development and expansion. Like people congregrated together.

My Father first encountered the English language when his family moved to Eastern Washington state when he was eight. He was speechless! He, and his brother and his sisters, were stood up against the baseball backstop while the other school children threw rocks at them and teased them because they could not speak english. This left an indelible mark on Dad. He never forgot it. Later, after he was grown up and married and had fathered myself and my older brother, I was given a living example that has guided me.

My father was a wonderful builder of beautiful homes. As such, he built up a strong group of craftsmen friends who helped him: masons, painters, cabinet makers, etc. His mason of choice was a German immigrant named "Billy, the Witchen." Billy had a strong accent to his speech, and he built wonderful fireplaces, chimneys and stone floors.

Close to the end of WW2, I'm guessing 1944, Hilter put out the call to all Germans living abroad to return gome to the Fatherland. Billy returned, with his wife. He served about six months there as a fire warden with a town fire dept.

About 1947, Billy managed to get himself and his family back to America, in the same town he'd left before. But, no one would give him any work as a mason. In those days, and I remember them well, any German was a "Nazi."

At this same time, Dad was giving Billy as much work as he could, but Billy was starving. Also at this time, Dad was invited to join the local "Masonic Lodge," in our home town. On the night that was supposed to be his acceptance, he stood on the floor and rejected the invitiation to join. He said that he refused to belong to an orginization that would NOT give work to a loyal American! He then walked out of the meeting hall. That opened the door for more work to Billy.

I warned you this would be a long posting.

Another quick story. Close to the end of the Korean War, Dad organized a community effort that resulted in everyone building a house for a returning vet. He was now leggless and had a family to support. Everyone donated materials, labor, and we gave "Ken" house keys to a brand new home, land and all.

So, that's just two stories of why my late Father, "Thekney Hjalmer Niemi Knuttlia Rajaniemi Nelson" (yes, that's his real name) is my hero today!

(I warned you this would be long). Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:39 PM

Lonnie Donegan.
Cromwell is an interesting example. Quite an acceptable hero for an English orogressive lefty who believes in killing kings, parliament v monarchy etc. Unthinkable to an Irish person, to who Cromwell is the massacre at Drogheda etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: harvey andrews
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:53 PM

Those like many I knew as a boy, including my father. Ordinary non-advantaged men and women who are largely self educated and believe that knowledge is the way out to a better and more fulfilled life.They have endless curiosity and passion, and are a constant surprise. Rick Fielding was a shining example. They enrich your life simply because you know them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Peace
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 05:58 PM

I'm partial to folks who do good for others. I respect courage in people, whether it's a single mom raising her children or quiet types who help when they can when no one is looking.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 06:27 PM

So many heroes...

Jesus of Nazareth
Bob Dylan
Crazy Horse
Roman Nose (Southern Cheyennes)
Joan Baez
Hiroyoshi Nishizawa
Saburo Sakai
Buffy Sainte-Marie
Stonewall Jackson
Robert E. Lee
James Longstreet
Tomoe Gozen (fictional...female Samurai...based on a historical figure)
Rick Fielding
Chris Smither
Emmy Lou Harris
Ho Chi Minh
Buddha
Lao-Tse (philosopher of Taoism)

And there are others too...

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 06:44 PM

My Father and Mother - and my four sisters and three brothers agree with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: musicmick
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 06:55 PM

Mitch Snyder

Paul Robson

Edith Stein

Brendan Behan

Itzhak Perlman

George Burns

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 07:15 PM

Virtually all of my heroes are people whose names you wouldn't recognize. I listed some of them here. The world is filled with heroic people. One who comes to mind and who should be on my list can be found in this posting by Big Mick. Some heroes of mine whose names you are more likely to recognize would include, (in no particular order,) Dag Hammarskjöld, Mark Twain, Theodore Roosevelt, Ray Charles and John Charles Frémont.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:32 PM

Sandy and Caroline Paton

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:33 PM

Desmond Tutu. Nelson Mandela. The Dalai Lama. Bill Moyers. Idries Shah. Carl Sagan. Martin Luther King. Abraham Lincoln. Mark Twain. Paul Wellstone. Thomas Paine. Sr. Helen Prejean.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Amos
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 10:54 PM

Deckman, thanks for telling me about your Dad. Mine was a hero to me also, among others. I think I would have really lijked your father!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,freda
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 11:25 PM

Lionel Murphy, a judge and later attorney general in Gough Whitlam's labor government, whose impact on the australian legal system brought about profound changes and improvements in our country.

A documentary ("Mr Neal is entitled to be an agitator") was made on one of Lionel Murphy's court decisions, Neal v The Queen (1982) 149 CLR 305. In this case, Justice Murphy made a finding in favour of an Aboriginal political activist's right to political dissent.

he reformed family law to bring in no fault divorces, abolished the death penmalty, and brought in a series of committees in parliament to analyse and vet proposed legislation. He introduced legal aid and lkegal aid centres for low income people, the Racial Discrimination Act, the Trade Practices Act, the Family Law Act, the abolition of the death penalty and Australia's opposition in the International Court of Justice to French nuclear tests in the Pacific. On his initiative, the Australian Parliament established the Australian Law Reform Commission.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: dianavan
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 11:35 PM

Eleanor of Aquitane

Chief Seattle

Will Rogers

Dag Hammersjold (?spelling)

George Washington Carver

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 04 - 11:57 PM

Just occurred to me to add Jean d'Arc (Joan of Arc). And Horatio Lord Nelson...although I'm not exactly a fan of Britain's imperial ambitions over the centuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Matt_R
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:28 AM

Bob Dylan
Mike Scott (of the Waterboys)
Gram Parsons
Dougie MacLean
Jim Croce
Steve Goodman
Noel Gallagher
Neil Young
John Squire
St.Columcille

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Rama Llama
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:42 AM

Why Kendall Morse, of course, he's so dreamy. Sigh.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:42 AM

my grampa.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:03 AM

Far too many to name. But I will say that it was my parents who made it possible for me to recognize the kind of people worth admiring. My mom and dad were my greatest influences, and watching how other people loved and respected them taught me what to aim for in myself and what to look for in others.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:35 AM

In no particular order:

Matthew Flinders
Ben Chifley
John Kenneth Galbraith
Arthur Phillip
Charles Sturt
Abraham Lincoln
Robert Edward Lee
Fred Hollows
Thomas More

and a lot more when I think of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:56 AM

In addition to the above, there are quite a few actors I admire. In many cases, I know almost nothing about their personal lives, and so I don't know whether they're admirable in all respects, but I admire their work.

Ben Kingsley (I just saw "House of Sand and Fog." Brilliant!)
Ian McKellan
Robert Duvall
Bill Murray
John Cleese
Robin Williams
Robert de Niro
Harvey Keitel
Jeff Bridges
Dustin Hoffman
Meryl Streep
Kathy Bates
Jack Nicholson
Susan Sarandon
Tim Robbins
Sean Penn

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:59 AM

Shanghaiceltic,

When I saw "Conqueror" on your profile, I wondered if you were on her the same time as Chris Wreford-Brown. I also know him, but knew his father better.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:31 AM

Biggles, Dan Dare and Joan Baez`s dad>

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:40 AM

Robert E. Lee? 600 thousand casualties in the American Civil war, and most of them were his fault. If he had been on the union side, it wouldn't have lasted a week.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Baby Boomer Cowboy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:52 AM

All dead:

Hoppy, Gene And Me (Roy Rogers)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:19 AM

My wife - must be a hero for loving me! :0) :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: el ted
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:23 AM

George Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:01 PM

In my definition of hero, the hero is always flawed in some major way, yet despite their personal limitations, acts courageously and with integrity when faced with "the crisis" they respond to heroically, in accordance with the essence of their being, and goes against external expectations of them.

As much as I love and admire Paul Wellstone, he doesn't rise to that standard, IMO. Sadly, Wellstone went against the essence of his being and a lifetime of work of great integrity, with his politically expedient vote on the Patriot Act. It wasn't a character flaw that made him do it, it was his political ambition. Which also made him cowardly towards the end of his life. Even though he voted from the essence of his being on the Iraq war resolution (he did vote against it just prior to hitting the campaign trail), he wavered A LOT on that issue and a number of others in the wake of 9/11. So, when the crisis hit, Paul Wellstone crumbled, in my view, while his neighboring senator, Russ Feingold, stood strong. He still does. I want Russ Feingold to run for president. That guy is solid.

The Wisconsin senator, Russ Feingold, was definitely heroic in his lone vote in the Senate against the Patriot Act. I've been tremendously disappointed by Mandela though, and the more time that passes, I'd say the hero of South Africa wasn't Mandela, but Desmond Tutu. And religious leaders, like politicians, rarely rise to that level in my estimation. Archbishop Oscar Romero is another hero of mine. The anonymous (to us) kids in Tianammen Square, or Prague spring. People who take non-violent, unarmed stands in front of the tanks and the guns.

Generals and soldiers (the ones giving the orders and driving the tanks at the dissenters of principle) have rarely been heroic to me, in the same way that conventional politicians and religious leaders are rarely are heroic.

I do think of the emergency responders to 9/11 as heroic though. Nobody could have looked at those buildings and believed they weren't coming down, yet the responders went in anyway. That is true heroism. The group that fought the hijackers in the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania was also heroic. Which is why I believe that the US public responded the way they did to them, but not to the politicians, in the wake of 9/11.

Ralph Nader also comes to mind, especially because he went against external pressures not to run this time, and acted in accordance with the essence of his being, and got in the race. He is a tremendously complicated man, and a fascinating one. And certainly when you look at his life long record of going up against the bad guys without publicly flinching (though I'm sure he did many a time in private) or backing down from his position, he is heroic. He has no equal, that is for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:52 PM

Good one, Kendall. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 12:53 PM

My wife.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: ranger1
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:11 PM

My mother and maternal grandmother. Don't have time to tell my mom's story now, am packing for a trip to cross the continent to see her now. My grandmother because she took me in and raised me when my mom couldn't take care of me for a while, due to reasons why my mom's my hero.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:31 PM

Alan Shearer, who ended German-over-English supremacy in football.

Harold Wilson, who didn't enter a war and saved me and my generation from dying in Rhodesia.

Father John Wilkinson, who was honest and planted the seed that opened my eyes and led me to atheism and freedom.

Moira Dobson, a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Franz S.
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:40 PM

When I was a kindergarten teacher, I di a little project every year where I read my students books about Paul Bunyan, Johnny Appleseed, John Henry, and Pecos Bill. We talked about them, did associated activities, and then I gave them a homework assignment, which was the topic of this thread. Of course they had to go over it with their parents (which was the real point), but I never got any cartoon characters in response. I got Cesar Chavez, Martin Luther King, Jr., and family members. Then I made books out of the reponses and gave each kid a copy. It was one of the most inspiring (to me) thngs I did as a teacher.

My three father (well, one dad and 2 stepdads) were all heroes to me. They all took stands that cost them ,and stuck by those stands. They all took their family responsibilities very seriously. They all taught me values that endure. And they were all a hell of a lot of fun to be around. One of them still is.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: kendall
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:48 PM

Harry Truman

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 02:54 PM

Rachel Corrie, who was killed by the Israelis, while standing in front of a Palestinian home to prevent it from being bulldozed.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: saulgoldie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:45 PM

In no particular order:
Paul Wellstone
Ralph Nader
Mother Jones
Saul Alinsky
Pete Seeger
Golda Meir
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Nelson Mandella
Albert Enistein
Guttenberg (the printing press guy)
Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin,
Thomas Paine, George Washintgon, Abraham Lincoln
me mum, who taught me what it is to be a caring and active citizen of the world.
NOT me pop--he finally stopped hurting me, but the damage was already done.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: GUEST,Baby Boomer Cowboy
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:17 PM

"NOT me pop--he finally stopped hurting me, but the damage was already done."

Heavy stuff..what a statement!


Davy Crockett and other frontiersmen...when men were men.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: darkriver
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 01:57 AM

Deckman,

Thanks for the story of your dad. He's a hero, all right.

Reading this thread makes me realize that there really are quite a few heroes out there.
--Or at least (though it may not be the same thing) many people who can do heroic things.

Although I don't agree with everything she said, I've always admired Mother Theresa's remark:

God does not call us to do great things, but to do small things with great love.

Regards,

Doug aka darkriver

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Hrothgar
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:55 AM

Might have to be grateful to R E Lee, Kendall. If the US Civil War had only lasted a week, there probably would have been guerilla warfare for x number of years. Thanks to McLellan, and Lee to a lesser extent, by the time the war finished nobody wanted to go on with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Who are your heroes
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:16 AM

None of those politicians or singers for me.

Douglas Bader. People like that make me feel humble.

And that lad who faced down the tank in Tianaman(sp?) Square a few years ago. And the tank commander who didn't squash him.