BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?

Subject: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: CapriUni
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 11:51 AM

Hi there!

Well, after I finish the current story I'm working on, I'm planning on advertising my writing service online, somewhere (maybe Ebay, if I can figure out how to catagorize it -- see New: life 4 CapriUni, & item in Auction for the backstory).*

As there is a good chance that I'll be writing for people outside the States, I'm considering signing up for PayPal, to avoid the hassles of international money exchange, and to make it easier for my clients to pay me. Plus, if I can figure out the wording, I may want to put my service up on e-bay, and PayPal seems to be becoming the norm in terms of payment for that.

However, I find the (last time I looked into it, which was some time ago, frankly) 40-odd pages of small print a little forbidding, to say the least.

So I'm asking into the open ether of the Web: is it worth it? Do I really risk losing my life savings, or getting ripped off through hidden charges and costs? And if there are hidden charges, to whom would I be paying that money? Etc., etc.

Thank you all, ever so much for your input.

*Yes, I will be putting this in the Mudcat auction again ... someday.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 02:16 PM

I look forward to what answers you may get, CU, as I've been thinking of adding payPal to my book sale site, too. I think I remember reading that eBay now owns PayPal, too, so that is reassuring, imo. My previous, breif experience with PP, a few years ago, was not pleasant.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: open mike
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 02:36 PM

i have had good luck with pay pal.. i have used it for quite a few transactions, and had good success. and i have received funds using the system too. It is set up to prefer a bank account as a source of the funds rather than a credit card, but a card can work too. Be sure to be careful as occasionally there are scam messages masquerading as being from Pay Pal, City Bank and others requesting you to "re-open" your account by inserting info such as social security numbers, etc. NOT!! The scam messages are quite obvious--do not get fooled by them!

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 03:57 PM

I've used PayPal to make payments, including international ones, but have never received money that way. I've never had any problems with them.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:07 PM

Paypal is great. I have found it very handy for internet buying and selling, and can recommend it without hesitation.

But watch for the scams that send you emails supposedly from Papal. They will try to get personal information from you, and rob you. If Papal sends you a message, they will address you by your actual name...the scammers will not. They'll say "Dear Papal Member..." or something like that. They usually pretend they need to update your membership records.

There are similar scams pretending to be Ebay as well. I have also gotten inquires lately about auction items I am NOT selling! Gotta be more scams, I would figure. I delete them.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:08 PM

I've used PayPal extensively over the past few years. To pay for purchases on ebay and other sites and also to facilitate sales of my CD's. PayPal makes it very simple for people to order one of my recordings from my website , pay for the CD and have delivery begin the same day.

I routinely get several purchase notices from PayPal each month, and find it quick and safe to use when buying something myself. The only problem I've had with it is that once they tried to take money out of a checking account that had been closed instead of my VISA card. It took forever to get it straightened out.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: CapriUni
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:20 PM

Kat, you wrote: I think I remember reading that eBay now owns PayPal, too, so that is reassuring, imo.

Yes, that is what my aide said yesterday. She hasn't quite gotten to the trust level of putting her bank account info online, but she got a seperate credit card account just for ebay (which she uses a lot) and PayPal (So it's easier to keep track of that money), and she said that since eBay bought PP, that the service is virtually seamless.

So :::bibliophile perk::: what book sale site? ;-)

Open Mike, you wrote: i have had good luck with pay pal.. i have used it for quite a few transactions, and had good success. and i have received funds using the system too.

That's reassurring to know. And thanks for the heads up on the scams. I was reminded of them when I did a mudcat search to see if anyone else had asked this question, but it's always good to make sure one keeps these things in mind.

And Art: I've never had any problems with them.

(breathes sigh of relief) Thanks, Art! Just out of curiosity, how long have you been signed up with PayPal (Maybe Kat's rough experience with them came before they got all the kinks out).

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:34 PM

I guess about 3 years, Ann.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 04:37 PM

Yep, same goes for me. I have used them for 2-3 years with nary a problem. We also use them to sell band paraphanalia. Very satisfied.

I have also received the bogus letters. Always be suspicious and check out any request for personal information.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 05:13 PM

I use PayPal regulary and so far have never experienced any problems. Every transaction has gone smoothly.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 06:16 PM

I've used PayPal for a few years now and like the service very much. Their bank account registration is really very good and quite secure. During the registration process, they actually make a very small deposit into your account. To complete the registration process, you have to check your account and report back to them the exact amount of the deposit. That way they are assured anyone signing up for bank transfer actually has access to the account they're registering.

I've used it just to send money to people via email as well as eBay and other online purchases. I'ts far and away my favorite way to pay online.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 06:17 PM

Here is what PayPal's sign in page says about security:

Keep your PayPal account safe and secure; here are some tips every PayPal member should know:
Log in safely whenever you access your PayPal account; open a new web browser (e.g. Internet Explorer or Netscape) and type in the following: (deleted by Mick)


PayPal emails will never ask you for personal information such as social security numbers, passwords, credit card or bank account numbers


Never download any attachments in a suspicious email
If you think that you have received a fraudulent email (or fake website link in an email), please forward the email (or URL address) to [e-mail] then delete the email from your mailbox. Visit our Security Center to learn more.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Apr 04 - 09:12 PM

It was indeed several years ago when I had a problem with PayPal, before eBay ownership. They took money out of my checking account, twice, for the same amount/same sale, and it took forever to get it taken care of...but, after reading all of these good comments, I am ready to add it to my site, which, since you asked**bg** is HERE. (Thanks for asking:-)

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 11:44 AM

CU, thanks to your starting this thread and the input of Mudcatters, I've added PayPal to my book site. Also, I noticed one does not have to list a credit card or bank account with them; it is optional.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 04:50 PM

I've been registered on PayPal for quite some time. I've never bought anything with PayPal's help, but have received funds for a few sales of my CD, The Real Story!.   No problems.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 05:34 PM

I have us3d Paypal extensively for all the reasons mentioned already: ease of use; international payments; security.

I would emphasise the people are aware of "phishing" emails spoof ones seeking your account. In fact because I buy and sell with regularity I never take any money out - just use it for purchases and so on.

Recommended by me and undoubtedly better since Ebay took over. However for an alternative view see:

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

Folkiedave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 06:34 PM

Thanks for all your input, friends! While I haven't made a firm decision, yet, PayPal has gone higher up on my list of possible financial options.

Kat -- Just checked out your site... the book looks wonderful indeed (I may PM you about it later). Is that little "Buy Now" button with the Visa and Mastercard logos the paypal link (I've seen the ones with the "PayPal: donate" symbol, too)?

Just curious...

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 07:28 PM

Yep, CU, it's one of the ones I had to choose from when I added PP. I wasn't sure if I liked it better than one which clearly said "PayPal.":-)

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 08:03 PM

Well, if you've signed up to use credit cards, that's cool.

Frankly, I think you made a good choice, ff you're trying to look like a well-established business. If you had the paypal one there, it would look more home-made, if you know what I mean...

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 08:29 AM

Was looking at the "anti" sites again today - I note that there are still current complaints - this year - being added to the sites - some of them for several thousand dollars 'confiscated' by PayPal, and numerous complaints.

Your decision, but be warned.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 12:38 PM

I'd like to add a PayPal access to my website. I have the account, but I see that people have referred to a "PayPal Button". How does one do that?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 02:05 PM

Dave, I did it from a link on tripod, but you could go to Merchant Tools at PayPal and follow the instructions.:-)

Thanks, CU, I think I like the look of the one I chose best. I wish PP offered one which had both their logo and the credit card logos.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 09:15 AM

Someone I know bought a minidisc recorder from someone via PayPal. He (the seller) was travelling around the world, and because he was making transactions in several countries they froze his account, leaving him badly stuck, according to my friend (the buyer). It was frozen for ages; she'd paid in the money but the seller couldn't get it, because PayPal had decided that someone who travelled that much must be a terrorist!

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: CapriUni
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 04:17 PM

PayPal had decided that someone who travelled that much must be a terrorist!

Sorry for the risk of thread creep, here... but (heh) I couldn't resist: Sounds like PayPal works with the same effeciency as the United States government.

Foolstroupe: While the information on the "PayPal Sucks!" site certainly gives me pause, I was not feeling all that safe after reading more about the alternatives they offered on their Options page, either.

YowCow seems the closest thing to paypal, but their opening home page gives very little information on how their service actually works. It says that others can send you money for FREE! (if they are also YowCow members). But it doesn't say how much non-members have to pay to send you money.

And the various ATM card systems aren't practical for anyone (like me, for example) who doesn't have access to an ATM, and/or doesn't necessarialy want their money as bills in hand.

The merchant account services are best, NoPayPal says, if you have a regular monthly stream of business... if that happens with my writing gig, you'd have to pry my jaw off the floor with a crobar.

But thanks for the warning, in any case.... that's the kind of thing I was fearing after trying to read all the fine print.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 11:48 AM

Been thinking of selling some of my books, etc via Ebay. Was thinking of Paypal, but neither them or other systems now give me any confidence, especially this brilliant idea of freezing teh account and emptying it! For the moment I shall stick to International Money Order (USPS in USA. Aust Post in Aust) or even perhaps Western Union, which now have agencies, often at Aust Post. I wonder which is cheaper for US customers... Western Union may be faster, as the IMO would have to be physically sent by Air Mail at least, I suppose.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: CapriUni
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 02:31 PM

Robin --

Well, I'm not ready to make a firm decision pro or con, yet... I'm just gathering info to make sure I have all I need in order to make a decision when the time comes.

Personally, I'm beginning to think PayPal is a bit like democracy in one way, at least: It's a terrible system, but better than all the alternatives.

(maybe).

And when you're dealing with money, nothing, I'm afraid, is risk-free.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: GUEST,Tangerinne
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:29 PM

Have you seen yowcow.com security page???????
Does it mean I can finally pay and get my stuff or a refund? Does anyone else do this?

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 04 - 12:38 PM

CU, I just made my first PayPal sale, two of my books to Banjo Bonnie/Little Neophyte (Thanks, Bon!), and it seems to have worked fine.

The only thing is, the way I read it, I could choose to have a "free" account and receive monies, but when I clicked to "accept" her payment, it told me I had an unverified acct. and would have to get it verified, which means registering a checking acct. with them, before I'd actually get the funds minus a small percentage for them. (Maybe this is for credit card payments only?) So, I am in the process of doing that, just waiting for their tiny (few cents) deposit and email to confirm.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: ddw
Date: 16 May 04 - 12:09 PM

This thread tweaked my interest be cause I'm in the process of starting an online business and I've found the discussion quite valuable.

The naysayers seem to be fairly vociferous in their dislike of PayPal, but what struck me was that most of their complaints seemed to center on the fact that PP isn't doing anything to stop spoofers and the odd claim that some manager is running spoof sites.
The latter made me wonder if we're not dealing with disgruntled ex-employees, since presumably managers in the company would have access to the real accounts (or could get it pretty easily) and wouldn't need to set up spoof sites to get info on customers fraudulently.

If the company actually has 40 million customers and this is the level of complaints, I think it must be doing something right. A look at some of the other anti-PP sites just reinforces my thought that you could probably find as many sites badmouthing pie ala mode — and certainly ones down on any commercial/financial operation.

Thanks to all for helping me tackle my dilemma over payment methods. I think I'll probably use PayPal.

cheers,

david

Subject: yocow
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 04 - 02:14 PM

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 05:52 PM

Capri-Uni, have you made any decisions, yet? Started your site, with services? I'd love to see it when you do. Good luck!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Joe_F
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 07:03 PM

About 2 years ago I managed to sign on to PayPal, with some difficulty, and made one transaction. The difficulty was no doubt largely my fault -- I am weird in a number of ways & have to be told things that other people find obvious -- but was exacerbated by the hardnosed help facilities. At one point I was directed to a Web site that did not exist, and every email I got was machine-generated and contained a stern warning not to try to reply to it.

About a year later, PayPal changed its contract & decided that everybody had to sign up again. The header of the email containing that announcement was worded as if I had made some sort of mistake & needed to correct it. That, I dare say, was somebody's clever idea of making sure everybody read it; but I took offense & decided to close my account. As far as I could discover, there was no way to do so. So I put up with a month or so of automated threats to close my account if I did not reply, and eventually PayPal stopped bothering me.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 07:08 PM

Here's my problem with Paypal:

I sell a fair amount of stuff on Ebay. 2 years ago I sold a Fender amp for around $250. I received the buyers money through Paypal and I dutifully shipped the amp. The buyer claimed that he had not recieved it a week after it was sent and complained to Paypal. Paypall took the selling amount out of my Paypal account (I hadn't transferred the money out of that account into my personal bank account). 2 days later the buyer emailed me and told me he had just received the amp. I reported that to PayPal, but they refused to do anything to give me the money. Even with me forwarding the buyer's email with him admiting he recieved the amp.

So I was out $250. I had a lawyer look into the issue and the contract I signed when I joined allowed them to basically do that. I could have sued, but what's the point.

They then labeled me as a risky merchant. Yet the refused to allow me to close my account.

If you use it, pull money out of the account ASAP. Maybe you'll be fine, but they are focused on protecting the consumer NOT the merchant. The simple fact that 80% of tranactions of that nature go through them shows they cannot be trusted. Espeically since they have such a hugely insestuous relationship with Ebay.

----------

By the way, I no longer allow anyone outside the U.S. and Canada to bid on my auction items - 20% over 3 years of selling would win and never send payment or want me to jump through hoops if they did. Less than 1% of buyers in the U.S. and Canada are like that according to my sales.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: open mike
Date: 02 Jun 04 - 07:27 PM

"About a year later, PayPal changed its contract & decided that everybody had to sign up again."---
this sounds like the way the spoof messages are worded..
i have never remembered pay pal changing the contract..
some spam messages say send your personal info in again
including password, account numbers, credit card numbers, etc.
this is BOGUS! i think you might have gotten one of those
messages...if you see where they go, they DO NOT go directly to an authorized pay pal site...i get these all the time from "citibank"
too .

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: GUEST,Hessy
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 12:54 AM

I did a lot of research before getting a paypal account. Most of the people who had their accounts "frozen" had a lot of money in their paypal account. Paypal seems to get suspicious once a person has more than $2000 in the account, or if they try to pay or receive more than $2000.

So just keep everything below that and you should avoid that particular problem.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: vlmagee
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 10:27 AM

I hesitate to comment because I am in a sense a "vendor", but I would like to answer. First, let me make it clear; my real life business is doing web sites and online stores, as well as other associated Internet based applications. For better or worse, that's what I do to earn a living. I also happen to be a folk music fan, and several of my web sites are for folk (or similar) musicians. One of them is the Hamilton Camp web site that I referenced in another thread this morning.

First, some information on PayPal. The big pitfall which is fact and not opinion is that once the BUYER has spend $500 on his associated credit card, he must give PayPal a bank account number. The buyer can still choose to charge payments to his card, but he must provide the bank account number to PayPal in order to continue to use it. For some people, this is a "not on your life" situation; some folks are still somewhat uncomfortable with giving out a credit card number to a "system" in the sky; giving out a bank account number ranks one level of discomfort above that. So even if your own sales are for books or music and small ticket items, a buyer who buys even one home appliance online can easily reach the limit.

On to less factual comments. For the above reason and others, PayPal is generally considered an informal and personal method of payment. Most businesses would prefer to establish their own merchant account (yes, there are significant costs) or to use a service other than PayPal to accept payment for them. There are several large services that do this in specific markets, such as to sell books or CDs. Basically, that is what I do, but my service is different in that the store screens look just like your site so that the entire payment process is fully integrated. By contrast, most if not all of the other solutions (including PayPal) take the buyer to a page on their site which looks like their site not yours (it might have your name and logo). In many cases the page on their site has links to other competing businesses (not PayPal, but others).

For some buyers, buying from a store that looks like your business and not from a larger, impersonal service makes them more likely to order.

When you use one of these services (mine or others including PayPal) the money that is transferred from the buyer (usually his credit card, but it can be his bank account with PayPal) and flows into a merchant account belonging to the service. That service either allows you to transfer the money to your account (as does PayPal), or pays you at some specified frequency. Your comfort level depends on your trust in the service you are using. In all likelihood, the major services are honest and hopefully their accounts are escrowed (which means if they go belly-up their creditors can not touch the money in the merchant account because it is yours not theirs), and the system will work for you. You make your choice based on the services they offer you, and the experience you have when you deal with them.

When I do an online store for someone, I charge for setup and take a percentage of each sale. The banks and the payment processor (the intermediary who handles the tranfer of the money) take their cut too. I have one single merchant account which is shared by all my customers; the cost of a merchant account - if you can get one - runs just under $1000/yr including the certicate you need so that you can operate in secure mode (to protect the information you transmit - eg, the credit card number). A large business - one with tens of thousands of dollars or more of online business a year - will choose to get their own merchant account so that the money flows directly in their own bank account. A small business can not justify the expense of doing that. I have one customer who has his own merchant account.

PayPal's rate to you is pretty much the bank fees with only a tiny bit added on for their profit. Of course, at their size, they need only make a few cents on each transaction. It makes it tough for the little guy (or gal) to compete unless the potential seller considers the total service and how it might increase his overall sales.

So, more than you wanted to know and I apologize for what some will consider to be "marketing". However, since this is my business, I do know how it works and am happy to answer questions.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM

vlmagee, thanks, very much, for the explanation and the link. The website looks very good and I like the way the store is set up so that one stays on that site to purchase, as you pointed out.

Do you have a website listing your services and fees?

Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 06:51 PM

open mike: Your suggestion that the request from PayPal to reup was a spoof is interesting. If so, the perpetrators did a gratifyingly poor job of enticing me! %^) Unfortunately, I did not keep any of their harrassments, so I cannot check the address at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: annamill
Date: 03 Jun 04 - 07:06 PM

Joe_F , I was about to also tell you that this was a spoof message and to beware! As rule of thumb (whateverthatmeans), I never click on the link in the email. I always go to the site and check out my account on my own. Though I don't have to anymore because now I know these emails are bogus.

Paypal. I sell a lot on ebay and I love Paypal and almost every item I have bought/sold has been paid by Paypal. Including some I have bought/sold in England and Canada.

Annamill

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: CapriUni
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 08:27 PM

Sorry -- been busy doing off-line, off Mudcat stuff

:::Gasp!:::

From Katlaughing: Capri-Uni, have you made any decisions, yet? Started your site, with services? I'd love to see it when you do. Good luck!

Well, I have not made any decisions about a website, or what have you, but I have made some decisions regarding PayPal.

Right now, I have one checking account, wherin all my money (except long term investments) resides -- USAA, which is headquartered in Texas, while I am here in VA. Mostly, this is not a problem, as their transactions can all be done electronically. But there are some local vendors who cannot accept out-of-state checks.

So, I am currently looking for a local bank with the right services for my situation... when I find it, I will set up a smaller, local account. And it is this account that I will link to PayPal -- so that if something funky does happen, and it messes with that account, it won't lock up all my money (and, that way, it will also be easier to keep track of the money that comes in from my writing commissions).

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Two_bears
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 09:47 PM

I sell a lot of books on Amazon,com, and other sites (Amazon.com has their own way or processing Credit cards, so Pay Pal is not an option there.

When I sell books on Ebay, and a few other sites; I ALWAYS prefer Pay Pal. because their fees are very reasonable compared to other payment options. Bid Pay is a JOKE.

I have found Pay Pal to be secure, and with the Pay Pal credit card I get money back on EVERY purchase I make by credit card.

I have several things for you to remember.

1. I was ripped off by an Ebay seller, and since I paid for the item with Pay Pal, and Pay Pal was able to get the money back for me.

2. there is no cost of postage to mail the money order, money, or check.

3. there is no 99 cent charge to buy a money order.

4. there is no hassle of trying to cash an odd ball Mapco, Prudential, etc money order.

I think Pay Pal is great, and their fees are MUCH more reasonable that Western Union, Bid Pay, Billpoint, etc.

If you do use Pay Pal; select a good password. I use a LOOOOOONG password (more than 10 characters).

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Two_bears
Date: 17 Jun 04 - 10:05 PM

Capri:

I have been on Pay Pal for about three years, and have it hooked up to my checking account, and I have never had any problems with it.

I don't even transfer money from Pay Pal down to my checking account. I actually send money from my checking account UP to the Pay Pal service, then I use the Pay Pal credit card to pay virtually ALL of my bills (except for rent and electricity) with the Pay Pal card. and Pay Pal deposits money in my Pay Pal account for EVERY purchase I make with the credit card.

I will tell you a Great experience that happened to me after I received the card. I went on a trip to Marietta, Ga (about 4 days after I received and activated the card. then after I returned home; Pay Pal was on the phone wanting to know if someone had been fraudently using my card.

For me; the BEST thing about Pay Pal is that it makes balancing my checkbook soooooooooo easy.

I no longer have 50+ checks and debit card payments to work through. I take my transfer UP to Pay Pal. Two checks mentioned above, then four or five deposits from my job and the books I sell on Amazon.com.

I would HIGHLY recommend Pay Pal to you.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: sledge
Date: 18 Jun 04 - 03:44 AM

I now use it a lot, and as I recently commenced selling on ebay decided to accept payment that way as well. I have found it to be be the best way of doing business and the customers definatley like the fast turn around that it allows.

My only gripe is the length of time it takes to transfer money to your bank account from your paypal account.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 10:49 AM

I used to use Paypal when I sold stuff on ebay (nothing much, just a few unwanted items now and again, mainly small items like books, records and the like). Like a lot of sellers, I used to ask buyers to pay a small amount extra, to help with the Paypal fees, and everybody seemed happy with this. (As a buyer of stuff on ebay, I was/still am happy to pay a bit extra for the convenience of using Paypal instead of having to post/mail off a cheque to the seller and wait for it to clear, etc.)

But when ebay took over Paypal, they forbade sellers from charging extra for using Paypal. That may seem fair enough, but for the fact that Paypal charges fees on the total amount of the transaction, not just the ebay selling price.

Now, if I sell a heavy book for a low price, say 1.00 GBP, it may cost me several times the selling price to post it to the buyer, especially overseas - let's say it costs me 5 GBP to post it to (say) the US from the UK (this is fairly typical). So I will charge the buyer 6 GBP in total.

Now, ebay will charge me around 0.20 listing price, plus another 0.20 GBP commission, and then Paypal will charge around another 0.60 GBP commission on the total amount (these figures may not be exact but they're roughly right - I haven't sold anything for a while so the prices may have changed a little).

Remember, I will have had to spend the 5.00 GBP on postage, so out of the 6.00 GBP I get from the seller, I only get 1.00 GBP (i.e. the selling price). Take off ebay and Paypal's commissions, and there is nothing left.

So Ebay is taking the lion's share, leaving me no profit at all. OK, I've deliberately chosen this example to illustrate my point, but you could even make a loss if the postage was sufficiently high.

In the old days, I would have asked the seller to pay the extra 0.60 GBP, so at least I would have kept the 'profit' after taking off the ebay commission.

The point I'm making here is that now that Ebay owns Paypal, it would be fairer to the seller if Paypal would only charge commission on the ebay selling price, not on the total amount.

OK, they're in business to make money, but it seems unfair to penalise the seller by preventing them charging the seller for using the service (which as I said, I found buyers - including me - were happy to do).

Does anyone else agree? I haven't seen anyone else object to ebay/Paypal's policy, here or anywhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:18 AM

I have found that sellers often charge much more for post and packing than they spend on it (e.g. £5.99, when the packing would have cost a few pence and the postage came to 65 pence - not even recorded delivery = at least £5 extra profit). Maybe they are including the fee in their charges.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:31 AM

I've found paypal to be OK, I'm in the UK and work as a graphic designer but have several contacts in the USA and Canada who I do business with and have been using paypal to receive money for nearly a year now and no problems so far.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Scrump
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 11:45 AM

Well, yes, I've never had any problem using Paypal like some others seem to have. It's just that I object to them charging me commission on money that I have to spend on postage, which means in effect I am making a loss on the deal.

As for ebay sellers charging ripoff shipping charges, yes, I've suffered from that too. I just charge for the cost plus a small amount extra for the packaging materials, if I have to buy them (jiffy bags or whatever). In practice I usually have plenty of them lying around from stuff I've bought (at least, small jiffy bags and record mailers), so I can just reuse them and not have to charge the buyer. I only charge for bigger items where I don't have the materials already and have to pay for them.

Mind you, as a seller I once had somebody complain about the shipping cost because they didn't want me to charge for the packaging materials. So I said, fine - just send me a self addressed package and I'll use that. He did too, and it must have cost him more that way - but some people are stupid :-)

If I see a seller charging ripoff shipping charges I won't usually buy from them. I say 'usually' because I guess if it was something I really, really wanted I'd perhaps pay anything to get it (assuming I had the cash).

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 01:47 PM

I understand your complaint and I had a couple of go-rounds with eBay over their PayPal protectionism. You can't advertise that you will only take PayPal instant payments instead of credit card payments through PayPal. They will kick your auctions out the moment the discover it, because while they SAY you can use PayPal "free," it's only free when a few circumstances exist and only for a little while and they don't want you restricting the PayPal functions you're willing to accept. It's all or nothing, says the 800-pound gorilla.

They nickel and dime you every step of the way. And while there are some folks who make quite a practice of gouging on the cost of shipping and handling, most people are trying to be fair. I noticed one day that in the analysis of one of my sales, the invoice included a gap between what it suggested I would actually pay for shipping and what I had actually charged the buyer, and called it a fee. In fact, that was the actual postage that the post office quoted me, with the tracking fee (60 cents) added on if I had to go to the post office to mail it. So they're trying to keep shipping down by showing the behind the scenes math, though it is another thing I find off-putting about eBay.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 02:15 PM

I'm in the midst of installing Paypal on my website, right now. Should be on by the end of the week. Comes highly reccommended by friends who should know. Paypal says "Do not reply to any e-mails, requesting personal information" they never, ever send them.

Subject: RE: BS: PayPal: Payoffs vs. Pitfalls?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Jan 07 - 02:20 PM

Hey, Alaska Mike!
                I checked out your site. How's that working for you?