BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?

Subject: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 May 04 - 06:00 PM

Since Saudi Arabia is in the same bidness as Syria, might SA take warning from this? Freezing assets, especially, I would think, would be the first step taken against the Saudis.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_syria

"WASHINGTON - President Bush on Tuesday banned all U.S. exports to Syria except for food and medicine, ordering sanctions after long-standing complaints that the Middle Eastern nation was supporting terrorism and undermining U.S. efforts in Iraq.

"...The measures also include a ban on flights to and from the United States; authorization to the Treasury Department to freeze assets of Syrian nationals and entities involved in terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, occupation of Lebanon or terror in Iraq; and restrictions on banking relations between U.S. banks and the Syrian national bank.

"The measures follow complaints by the United States that Syria was supporting militant groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah and failing to stop guerrillas from crossing the border into Iraq. "

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 04 - 08:51 PM

Why not just freeze Bush instead? Thaw him when they finally have a brain they can transplant into his obviously empty head. Brainstem activity is simply NOT enough to go on in this day and age.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 May 04 - 09:01 PM

Sad, Stilly- but true. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Bobert
Date: 11 May 04 - 09:29 PM

The Saudi's have nothin' to worry their heads over since the Bush family has a such strong and historic business and personal realtions.

The bin Ladens and Bush's go way back... Osoma is like a cousin to Junior...

Don't think so?

Check out just how many millions of dollars that the bin Laden' gave Junior thru Harkin Oil. Like lots of dough. And fir what???

You guessed it. Access to his daddy when his daddy was president...

Okay, you wantta gto stick yer head in the sand and pretend these aren't, ahhhh, facts? Well, knock yerselves out...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 12 May 04 - 02:16 AM

I guess if we ever get to see the latest film from Michael Moore "Farenheit 9/11), we will see and hear much of what Robert has just said substantiated and lots, lots more. No wonder Bush and his cronies are very anxious that this film should not be shown in the USA or anywhere else for that matter.

JB

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 May 04 - 11:37 AM

I'd take this news as more of a subtle heads-up to the people of the US that we are now at war with Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 May 04 - 11:45 AM

Yes, this is certainly another great moment in the United States' declared "war on terror"...

Syria provided the United States with intelligence on al-Qaida after the Sept. 1, 2001, attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Nerd
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:32 PM

I suspect CarolC is right. Next stop, Damascus, and if Bush is reselected, Tehran will follow.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:50 PM

Tehran will follow
One can only hope!
Probably too late though.
Iran should have been "take care of" in 1991 while they were in the vicinity. Too late now. Armageddon in the Middle East just-a-first- strike-against-Israel away.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:57 PM

Syria hasn't got any oil. Saudi Arabia has rather a lot of oil. The chances of sanctions against Saudi Arabia by the USA are rather less than the chances of sanctions by Saudi Arabia against the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 04 - 04:37 PM

So...if people in Iran are of a different religious persuasion it's okay to invade, conquer, and slaughter them? Hmmmm. Richard the Lionheart would really go for that kind of thinking.

Gosh, why stop at Syria and Iran? Why not just kill EVERYONE who's different from "us" or who doesn't like America. It's a big job, but hey, someone's gotta do it, right?

Oh, my...the arrogance...the sense of divine right...it's just awe-inspiring.

Like Randy Newman says, "Why not drop the Big One now!" Yeah.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:04 PM

If a conservative non-American reads much of the political crap on this forum (and I do mean CRAP what with all your collective conspiracy theories many of which, make the term "delusional" seem like an acceptable, relaxed and balanced frame of mind) it would appear that with the exception of DougR, Claymore and one or 2 others who are willing to publicly state their views, the overwhelming majority opinion here is that America is ALWAYS to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world as well as on their home turf, andf that they just can't do anything right.

They should always just turn the other cheek and bend over a little more, regardless of anything that happens.

We can't fix what was.

We can fix what is, and unfortunately you cannot reason with vermin ... or invite them to a song circle where you can have a nice frank, rational exchange of views, following the music.

Sadly, only the U.S., Britain, Pakistan, Israel and the other ACTIVE allies in the war on terrorism understand this.

I guess when suicide bombers start blowing up innocent men, women and children in the shopping malls, parks, sports stadiums and other soft targets in the U.S. and the West, that too will be America's fault, right? On Mudcat it sure will. That I know I can count on. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:16 PM

Justa Picker:

You make the same mistake many right wingers do; you think George W Bush is the same as America. He's not. Trust me, he's not America. And even he is not to blame for everything that goes wrong in the world, jut the things he's had a finger in.

If you'll pardon the expression.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Amos
Date: 12 May 04 - 05:36 PM

Jeeze, JP:

You obviously haven't read or don't remember my posts from 9-11 until the present.

Do you think the prosecution of the war in Iraq was a sensible way to address the problem of 9-11? If so, how do you figure it?

The vital interest the United States had in iraq was deposing the dictator because he was giving all the oil contracts to his friends in Elf-Acquitaine. Needless to say the French saw no reason to support such a war, which has cost them a lot of business. Business which now gets let to oil service companies from the US.

Anyway, you seem to be swing a pretty wide brush there.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 04 - 06:12 PM

One man's freedom fighter is another man's vermin. All such vermin believe they are defending their people. That doesn't make them right...it just makes them similar, that's all.

I don't see any point cheerleading one lot of vermin while they massacre another lot.

I'm using the word "vermin" loosely here, though, you understand.

People call rats vermin too...but if you get to know rats they are actually highly intelligent and likeable creatures, but they'll fight like hell when they feel mortally threatened.

So, a Hamas fighter is "vermin" to the Israelis, but an Israeli tank driver or soldier or pilot is "vermin" to the Palestinians whose houses are bulldozed and whose land is stolen. An Iraqi insurgent is vermin to the American soldiers who torture him. An American contractor is vermin to the Iraqi insurgents who murder him.

And yet, all these vermin feel morally justified, don't they?

Calling people vermin doesn't help solve the problem, and the problem is not terrorism. The problem is injustice, inequality, and power politics in the World. The problem is that EVERY aggressor nation and EVERY aggressor individual follows the dictate of Mao Tse-Tung: "Political power comes out of the barrel of a gun." Terrorism is a symptom of the problem. It's frequently a reaction to previous terrorism, which was usually itself a reaction to previous terrorism.

In the Middle East, if you go back quite a way, the Persians terrorized the whole region for a long time. Then Alexander the Great terrorized the Persians. At a later date, Mohammed's armies terrorized those who didn't feel inclined to join his new faith. At an even later date the Turks terrorized the region. Then the British and French defeated the Turks, and they took over terrorizing the region. In 1948 the Israelis commenced to terrorize the region, and the people they were terrorizing commenced to terrorize the Israelis. That's still going on. Saddam did his own terrorizing, and the USA and Britain are back again to terrorize.

Now, what makes you think that the "vermin" are only on one side of the issue?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 06:27 PM

The most likely people to put bombs in malls and so forth in the USA are probably white "Christian" Americans, going by what's happened in the past.

And LH - in that list, you missed out the Crusaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 12 May 04 - 06:41 PM

"Tehran will follow. One can only hope!"

With which army do you envisage doing this, Justa Picker?

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 04 - 07:18 PM

I figure the Chinese have enough soldiers to do it...after they roll over northern India and Afghanistan. :-)

But I know the USA doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Peace
Date: 12 May 04 - 07:38 PM

Justa Picker

There is a substantial difference between blaming America when it's wrong and blaming America when it's right.

You may not recall that Canada was a member of the Coalition Forces in the Gulf War. My country declined to get involved in this one. My government thought the American government was wrong this time. I think it is, too. The objectives were never clear before the USA invaded Iraq. Yes, overthrow Hussein and find WMDs. However, what has been clear to me is that the USA now has a necessary strategic location and they ain't gonna be leaving Iraq anytime soon. This has been a poorly designed war, and the American people were, are and will continue to be fed bullshit by Washington. Any bets the US isn't leaving there soon? Any bets?

I agree Hussein had to go. That remark will be met by much disapproval here. I think he was a piece of shit, and a shot in the head is what he deserves. I don't know that the Iraqis deserve what is happening to them at this time. I think the USA was too stupid to take a few WMDs in and find them, and tactically, that ranks up there between 25 watts and idiotic.

But, that positioning in the locale sure puts the US close to lots of fossil fuel, dontcha think?

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 May 04 - 07:42 PM

Syria doesn't have oil? Not according to the CIA Fact Book. Syria produces 522,700 bbl/day (2001 est.) and Shell and PetroCanada are
in there big time developing further sources.

Which might explain why it was reported on CNN yesterday that although sanctions have been imposed regarding imports by Syria, at this time, exports out of Syria are not affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:41 PM

"unfortunately you cannot reason with vermin"

that, unfortunately is also the opinion of aome aussies about many 'Yanks' .... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:48 PM

It's probably how a lot of Iraqis feel about American soldiers too, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:57 PM

I agree Hussein had to go. That remark will be met by much disapproval here.

I wouldn't think so, brucie - depending what it means. Apartheid had to go, and General Pinochet had to go, and lots of other nasty regimes. And they went. And I don't think there are many Saddam lovers around the Mudcat - or for that matter among the Iraqis engaged in fighting against the occupation, from what I've read.

If it was a way of saying that this invasion, especially carried out at the time it was and in the way it was, was a good thing, yes, you would get some disagreement on that. But from your other remarks, I don't think you quite mean that.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 04 - 09:03 PM

Funny thing about war...the "vermin" is always in everyone's gunsights or bombsights. It's always the other guy, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 May 04 - 12:26 AM

You're right Justa Picker. You're probably going to have to kill everyone who is different from you, because you never know when someone who is different from you is going to turn on you. It's going to get complicated when you've eliminated all of the ones with obvious differences, and you have to start using more subtle criteria. But what the hell, we've got plenty of weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 May 04 - 12:30 AM

BTW, for anyone who is not already aware of this, Justa Picker, who is so eager to send US troops into harm's way that he can barely contain himself, is Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 May 04 - 07:52 AM

it is my opinion that the foriegn terrorists who attack the US do it precisely because of the state sponsored terrorism that the government of the US conducts and finances all over the world. It is my opinion that it is the US government that is putting the lives of my family members in danger. (Carol, in 2003)

I guess when suicide bombers start blowing up innocent men, women and children in the shopping malls, parks, sports stadiums and other soft targets in the U.S. and the West, that too will be America's fault, right? On Mudcat it sure will. (Justa Picker, above)

BTW, for anyone who is not already aware of this, Justa Picker, who is so eager to send US troops into harm's way that he can barely contain himself, is Canadian (Carol, above)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: S O P
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:13 AM

How about freezing Saudi Arabia's oil? Less money for terrorists, and the world can look to some other form of energy.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:50 AM

The religious policeman

(A view from a Saudi-Arabian dissenter; fun to read)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 04 - 01:17 PM

In 1775 the uniformed and lawful British colonial troops in North America were resisting various unlawful acts of terrorism and civil disorder by various "vermin" in places like Boston, Lexington, and Concord. Those vermin had the nerve to launch stealthy attacks upon the military forces of the legal government, killing innocent British subjects and destroying property.

In the subsequent several years of warfare and mayhem, the aforementioned vermin, with aid from the despicable and opportunistic French (those rotten scum!) succeeded in actually winning the war!!! The British forces in Canada, however, were able to hold off those vermin in 1812-14 and preserve British rule (thank God and the King!).

Subsequently, the former vermin became the new official forces in the 13 colonies/states and much later they became the new allies of Great Britain and are now the "good guys", because the winners write the history books.

(the above is intended to be taken somewhat tonge in cheek, but it illustrates a point: namely, that those who are in control decide who is "vermin" and who is not at any given time.)

It's okay to exterminate vermin brutally, by the way, so just decide who they are and go get 'em!!!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 May 04 - 01:37 PM

Wolfgang, I must say, the point of your 13 May 04 - 07:52 AM post has completely eluded me.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:07 PM

He saw a UFO last night and has been in a real state of shock ever since. Don't pay any attention to his ramblings for the next few days. He needs time to adjust... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: CarolC
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:09 PM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:10 PM

I have stated in the past that some people don't understand that evil exists in the world.    There is wrong and right.    Terrorist have declared war on the USA.   Ossama is on video tape three separate times declaring war on the USA.   Yet there are some people who want to ignore it and hope it goes away.   Interestingly, these same people are the first to criticize those in power for not protecting them.   Note that the same people attacking Bush for not reacting to a memo 8 weeks before 9/11 attack him for unilatterraly going into Iraq.    Had Bush went along with the French and did nothing in Iraq, and two years later a chemical attack happened in the USA with weapons from Iraq I can predict the response.   Bush know about 9/11, Kerry told us about WMD's, Clinton told us about WMD's, and Bush did nothing.   Therefore he should be impeached.   In your heart you know that is exactly what would happen.

After a while you realize that it is just political rhetoric with no basis of fact or logic behind it.   People are to blind with hatred for Bush to think or speak objectively.    That is your right in a free country.   You only cross the line when you give comfort and support to the terrorists.   That causes more loss of USA lives.

I am not a big fan of Saudi Arabia.   I believe they use oil money to support terrorism.   I believe they try to play both sides of the street.    If it were me I would make them a deal they couldn't refuse.    We get 90% of your oil money, and you get to keep your country.   We use this money to support the USA economy.   Oh- and by the way- the price of oil to France and Russia just tripled.   That's capitalism baby.

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 04 - 02:22 PM

Al Capone would have understood that perfectly, Larry. :-) He never let sentiment get in the way of good business sense.

Osama wasn't based in Iraq, and Saddam and he were not good buddies, to say the least. They were deadly enemies.

I'm not a big fan of Saudia Arabia or Saddam either...nor do I think terrorism will just "go away". How could it when there is so much poverty and inequality in the World? It comes from the same place crime does, and crime is not going to just go away either.

You have to do 2 things: Provide effective security forces in the present, and eliminate poverty and inequality in the World in general by gradual stages. You don't solve the problem by creating more poverty and destruction, which is what the West has done in Iraq since the Gulf War in 1991.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 13 May 04 - 11:07 PM

"We get 90% of your oil money, and you get to keep your country"

Is this before or after you go into Iran, Larry?

Makes a good bedtime story, anyway.

Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Subtle HeadsUp to Saudi Arabia?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 14 May 04 - 06:53 PM

JP,

Don't pick it. It'll never heal.

Art