BS: Are there really Angels?

Subject: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 May 04 - 04:05 AM

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Whilst reading a magazine yesterday, I came across an article in which several people claimed to have either been saved from certain death by and Angel....or had witnessed the phenomenom but with others being saved from death. Has anyone any personal experience which would bear out their existence or any knowledge on the subject, which I admit has a fascination for me.

If answering this message on the thread compromises you in any way them please feel free to anser via Personal message in strict confidence. Thank you and Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: el ted
Date: 21 May 04 - 04:08 AM

I have personal experience of Angel Delight. Tesco's sell it.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 21 May 04 - 04:45 AM

Don't know about Angels, but from some of the postings on the Hull threads, there's definitely some fairies around.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Partridge
Date: 21 May 04 - 04:47 AM

I believe in Angels.

Pat xx

click here

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Jeanie
Date: 21 May 04 - 04:52 AM

I say yes, there really are, and from my experience they don't have to be wearing white robes or have wings, either. They can look like you and me. In fact, on a purely earthly, practical level, we all of us have the potential to be angels to each other every day. On other levels of experience and awareness, I have come to realize that there is a tremendous amount of helping and guiding going on, too, behind the scenes.

One of the best books I have come across to explore angels is this one: "Angels - True stories of how they touch our lives" by Hope Price, publ. Pan Books ISBN 0 330 32850 6. The chapters include: "Angels - the facts"; "Angels on the roads"; "The Angel Experiences of Children"; "Angels in Human Form"; "Traditional Angels"; "Unseen Angels"; "Angels in the First World War - The Angels of Mons and the White Cavalry".

*   *   *   *   *   * *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   * *

"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels - unawares."

* *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *   *

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 21 May 04 - 04:52 AM

Hells angels ?

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 May 04 - 06:14 AM

Jeannie. Thanks for the references and Eric...had you read the first posting you would perhaps have realised what I am really after.....Be Blessed!

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 04 - 06:44 AM

Angels??!! You must be mental.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 May 04 - 07:09 AM

While you, GUEST, of course have your feet firmly on the ground. Like a rock. Or a boulder. Or something exciting like that. Must be nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,shycat
Date: 21 May 04 - 07:16 AM

I was brought up agnostic, and never believed in angels. But.....


(you knew there was a but) one day, after certain circumstances, and without any visualisation or projection on my part, as I walked away from a visit with a particular person, I sensed that two huge, long, white angels wings were hovering, one on each side of me as I walked. I walked for about ten minutes to the train station, and sat on the seat waiting for the train, the two wings still protecting me all the way. When the train came, and I got in, they were no longer there. It was a wonderful, peaceful experience of love and protection, if I could make it happen by imagination or whatever, I would, but it has never happened again. That was about 15 years ago, and I still treasure the experience.

so yes, I believe in angels.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,Sooz(at work)
Date: 21 May 04 - 07:51 AM

I am one - but only part-time!

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:31 AM

Wanna test it out for yourself, Georgiansilver?

Try this -- ask the angels for help today, preferably with something that involves assisting someone else (your family, a sick friend etc). Ask out loud, even write the request down - and ask most sincerely, with as much emotion as you can muster up. Then thank them in advance for helping you (that's really important!) and go about your day as usual. Watch, listen, observe ... and see what happens!

daylia

PS if you're not sure which angel to ask, try Michael. "He" just LOVES cleaning things up! ANd when you do see results, make sure you thank them again - even do a good turn for someone else to demonstrate that your gratitude is genuine.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:36 AM

SHycat:

An interesting experience -- but what do you think it was about?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:37 AM

yes - there are angels. If there aren't then I want to know who's been leaving dance footprints all over the heads of my pins!

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,shycat
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:44 AM

Amos

I had been through a particularly difficult time, some events which were distressing and which had an impact for a few years. This was just before the beginning of the end of those times, just before things got better.

It felt like comfort, like something or someone letting me know that they were there offering help. It was an extremely calming, peaceful experience.

shycat

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 May 04 - 10:33 AM

I was gonna pen one of my usual sceptical responses, but MMario's note has made me rethink it! Nothing like good, hard evidence to convince the naysayers!

(were they clogging or waltzing, Mario?)

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 May 04 - 10:36 AM

Old Style English Country Dance I believe.

Seriously - I believe in Angels in approximately the way I believe in Santa Clause - that the image is a personification of a spirit that indwells within people.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:00 AM

yes...only I, of course, would phrase it differently. We process stress and hope differently, and for some, that imagery helps frame feelings.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:14 AM

Each person believes what they want to believe. Each defines the undefinable in terms that make sense to them. For an example, check Arthur Machen and the Angels of Mons.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Kim C
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:20 AM

I believe there are benevolent entities watching over us. If that's Angels, then so be it.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:41 AM

When Kendall came to London, we went to the British Museum, and outside I told him that I had seen what I thought was an angel standing in the exact place I was then standing.

It had happened last summer while I was sitting outside the Museum eating my lunch. I noticed a man standing and staring up at the sun with a look of pure bliss on his face. I was taken with how happy he seemed to be, and when I glanced away for, I swear, no more than a split second, and then looked back, he was gone.

After searching the whole area to be sure he wasn't somewhere in the vacinity, I came to this conclusion...

He was an angel...on holiday.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:56 AM

The Angels currently have the best record in the Majors.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:10 PM

there is no such thing, you bunch of blithering half wits. Get real will you?

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:11 PM

No worries, GUEST...you won't be seeing any..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:14 PM

or possible only DARK ones...

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:25 PM

The problem with borrowing words already heavily freighted up by other practices is the freight comes along with them and confuses the communication. If the question refers to the hierarchical powers attributed to the Cosmic Organization Chart flowing downhill from some patriarchal Founder, in multiple ranks of various degrees of privelege and importance, from arch- down to cherubim and seraphim, I'd have to say the imagery makes about as much sense as Shrek. SUre you can impose sense onto it, buty it is inherently detached from reality.

If, on the other hand, you want to use a more general and less cluttered definition such as "beings generating benevolent thoughts toward humans while not operating a body themselves" I suppose it is perfectly possible.

I am always a little suspicious of beings who "can't" run a body, but I suppose there are those who could if they chose to and are having more fun operating without. At least, it's a possibility.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Peace
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:27 PM

Yes, there are.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:27 PM

Amos - are you saying Shrek doesn't make sense? I felt it made much more sense then the general run of animated movies.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:27 PM

Ah, Amos! Once I translate what you write into layman's terms, it's always worth reading again!..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Kim C
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:29 PM

I believe in ogres, too. I've encountered some on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:37 PM

"Shrek" makes sense because you add sense onto it. If you tried to relate it to reality, you would go adrift quickly, looking for talking donkeys, people with green skin, big-hearted ogres, and so on. Mythology doesn't work backwards that way. It works from within outwards. That doesn't mean Shrek doesn't communicate, because it is good (or at least acceptable) mythology. Meaning people find it an easy vehicle to add their meanings onto. That is also what makes it better than other animated films. But you won't really find green ogre princesses, or talking clown-fish either.

It pays to recognize which is the territory, which is the map, and which is just the myth about both.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Kim C
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:38 PM

Since when do donkeys not talk? Just because they speak a different language doesn't mean they don't communicate. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:50 PM

I didn't say donkeys don't communicate. They don't talk in the human way, as depicted in Shrek. That's what I mean about projecting human meanings. Sure, donkeys communicate. Most sentient organisms do. So we can create myths about them talking out loud in English, French, Polish, Armenian, or what-have-you.(Grimm's Fairy Tales is full of talking frogs and birds and such).

But they don't.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 21 May 04 - 01:11 PM

Amos - my entire world-view is wobbling here. You've yanked away all my little secuity blankets and revealed the world as a harsh hard cruel place.

Please please PLEASE don't talk to me about the Easter Beagle!

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Kim C
Date: 21 May 04 - 01:14 PM

Are you absolutely sure? ;-)

(yes, I'm feeling a little punchy today!)

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 21 May 04 - 01:30 PM

Easter Beagle - ah, the world according to Charlie Brown.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 May 04 - 01:35 PM

Are there really Angels? Yes. Unquestionably. I don't expect my opinion on the matter will convince anyone, though, and it doesn't actually matter one way or another if it does.

They aren't restricted to any particular religious tradition, but predate those traditions. The various religions have attempted to describe them in whatever terms made sense to the people at the time.

There are probably also various physical beings that have been mistaken for Angels from time to time, but that's another matter entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 04 - 01:48 PM

Knew I could count on you for the authoiotative assertion, there, LH!! Yeehaw and Hoorah!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Hawker
Date: 21 May 04 - 03:33 PM

Yes, Georgiansilver, there are angels.
Like Litte Hawk said they predate religion.
Like most things that are unclear, it is very hard to grasp understanding of something unless you have had personal experience!
Perhaps we could all experiment..... especially the sceptics..... sit in a quiet room, or listen to gentle music, relax and in the inner quiet, ask the angels to show you a sign, rather like daylia suggested ..... I am sure some will see wombles, father christmas and the clangers, but for those who do it genuinely, we may hear some interesting tales? Go on....... have a go before you knock it completely!
Peace and harmony to you all whetehr you know the angels or not!
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: GUEST,amergin
Date: 21 May 04 - 03:35 PM

I'm an angel...I got the halo to prove it...

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 21 May 04 - 04:04 PM

Like Litte Hawk said they predate religion.

It must be Friday.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 21 May 04 - 07:31 PM

I am trying to figure out what you mean by angels "predate religion" because if, as it is asserted...God created everything and God is the centre of religion(Or preferably Christianity) then Angels cannot possibly pre-date God....consequently, they cannot predate religion.
Perhaps you know something I don't and if so please emlighten me. Be Blessed..

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:22 PM

Sure thing. "God" is a name that many of us give to whatever it is that created everything...and/or runs everything...etc. We got that name (whether it be "God", "Allah", "Vishnu", "Wakan Tanka", "Yahweh", etc...) from a religious tradition that was handed down to us by our ancestors. In the list of such traditions, Christianity is a pretty recent one (only 2,000 years old). The Muslim faith is even younger, and the Bahai faith is younger yet. The Jewish faith and the Buddhist faith are far older. So is the Hindu faith.

Religions are organized forms of thought, belief, and practice which have been brought into being by human beings...as they react to the powerful mysteries of life and death that they are confronted with...and as they react to powerful spiritual teachers like Buddha, Christ, or Mohammed.

The original cause of all this obviously existed long before the religions did. Religions are a human reaction to an existing situation that rests on a foundation more ancient than human life itself.

Since I think that Angels are spiritual beings that have existed since the beginning of this Universe (as we know it), and since I think that religions didn't come into being until much, much later...therefore both Angels and God existed prior to humanly established religions.

(Or they didn't...if you refuse to believe in anything other-worldly like that.) :-)

I'll tell you this. The Planet Earth existed a long time before any religions did, and so did whatever created the planet Earth, the Sun, etc...whether you choose to give that orginal cause the name "God" or not.

It doesn't matter what you call it. It was around before religions and it will still be around after them too.

A religion is a human attempt to define God (or reality) and relate to that definition of God in a positive way. A religion is a spiritually oriented philosophy, usually accompanied by a set of rules or suggestions regarding moral and practical conduct.

Some religions are more topheavy with rules than others, however. This usually has a lot to say about how fearful the adherents of the religion are. More fear...more rules, and stricter rules.

The completely fearless know no rules at all, and yet are exemplary in their conduct, because bad conduct normally arises out of fear.

You see, you don't need rules to keep an enlightened being in line. :-) But you do need rules to keep a fearful, ignorant savage in line...and an effective means of enforcing those rules too.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Pogo
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:35 PM

Hm...being Christian I go with God and angels having been there from the beginning because I believe God has always existed and was not 'created' by organized religion...but I am mindful that there are folks here who have different beliefs and this is quite all right. :OD

I don't believe in the traditional idea of winged babies or winged anything and I do not believe in the traditional hierarchy of angels either. Personally I think angels really need no wings.

I believe they can be spirits with no physical bodies or translated human beings (such as Enoch and Elijah and James the Beloved was it? please feel free to correct me anyone if I'm wrong I'm weak on biblical knowledge unfortunately) and I believe there are angels of light and angels of darkness.

I classify loved ones who have passed on to the next world as angels and I believe as permitted they can visit family members still living, either in dreams or very rarely appear to someone but I always believe they do so for a distinct purpose. I believe that the presence of angels can be felt at times depending on how spirtually receptive one is at any particular time. I believe their presence is most strongly felt however in holy places. I believe in guardian angels.

I believe angels are powerful and awe-inspiring beings much more so than they way they are traditionally portrayed in popular culture. I believe they serve God but they are not a separate species...they are also his children as we mortals are.

Anyways...that's what I believe pertaining to angels :)

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Amos
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:38 PM

Religion is a map, while God is the territory. Just as the rolling hills of North Dakota existed for aeons before Shell Oil printed a map of the area, so with God.

Pretty simple.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 May 04 - 10:39 PM

"Religion is a map..." a good metaphor for the process!
At least we can compare maps of N. Dakota with satellite photos and topographic surveys...

There are VERY intricate, detailed maps drawn of totally imaginary places. Some of these maps have been represented as 'real', and folks have gone off hunting for the places described. Debate still rages about whether Atlantis is/was 'real'...Not much news since Plato.

Gods and Angels are even tougher to pin down.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:01 PM

Beautiful analogy, Amos!

No one can draw a map of your soul, Bill, or of your personal experiences in love and consciousness. Nevertheless, they are real.

What religion is really about, if practiced sincerely, is the refinement of consciousness and moral values. If practiced insincerely, it's about keeping up appearances and working one's way to the top of the social pecking order.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:19 PM

A 19-year-old man went over a cliff at the Oregon coast in his pickup. The truck was demolished but he was unhurt except for a small cut on his forehead. He claimed that when he went through the window he was caught by an angel. He said he saw the arms.

The 16-year-old daughter of a friend of mine overturned the family car on a narrow, twisting road and was unhurt. She told her mother that an angel held up the car enough for her to climb out from under it.

I think, in addition, that sometimes we perform the role of angel for each other, maybe in response to an invisible nudge. On May 3, a couple of weeks ago, I chose carefully the early morning city bus I would have to catch to get to the university about 15 miles from here to keep a commitment I had made. The bus didn't come. When I checked the bus schedule I found that half-hour bus service doesn't begin until after 8:00. Which meant that I wouldn't get there until after 9:00 and I was supposed to be there at 8:30.

For about two minutes - not more - I asked myself what I was going to do. Take a taxi? Expensive. Call a neighbor? But she didn't get up until after 8:00.

Then an unfamiliar pickup truck swooped to the curb and a friend I hadn't seen for more than 6 months - he lives in the Valley - called out, Where you headed? I said, To the University! He said, Hop in. I'll take you there.

We got there in time to have a cup of coffee before my meeting.

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 22 May 04 - 04:35 AM

Coincidence Ebbie, not an angel? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Are there really Angels?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 22 May 04 - 09:02 AM

Thank you for the comments and references folks...I appreciate your efforts. Be Blessed.