BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....

Subject: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 09:39 PM

Just read this in the online Telegraph. Loved the bit about Wales being not much different from Nepal. Never seen a yeti in Wales though!

All abroad! The Gurkhas solve bus driver problem

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 09:46 PM

They were (and are) highly respected soldiers. They will also be highly respected drivers. Lucky are the people who got them.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Mr Happy
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 09:50 PM

Hopefully they'll get paid the going rate for their new jobs, which sadly wasn't the case in the British Army.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 15 Jun 04 - 09:58 PM

I fully agree. Fantastic soldiers, it is a pity that the MOD has not treated them like other soldiers when it has come to retirement.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 12:26 AM

The Gurkhas are such fantastic people. Has anyone seen the excellent sculpture of a gurkha soldier in Whitehall? The list of campaigns that they have fought in with us (listed on the plinth) is enough to make you whistle.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: jack halyard
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 06:54 AM

Re the Ghurkhas.
My old dad was a medical technologist in the British Medical corps in North Africa in WW2. His only spell of duty involving a firearm had him standing guard one night in a foxhole, holding a SMLE in his shaking hands.

At some point in the icy, silent desert night, a pair of dark hands appeared around his neck, felt for his dogtags, found them and withdrew. a soft voice said "Goodnight sahib"
and the gurkha was gone. His approach had not been heard. One of the hands had been holding a razor sharp Sykes Fairbairn commando knife right next to Dad's jugular.

Had he not been wearing British dogtags, Johnny Warner (Jack Halyard to you) would not have happened.

Dad always said "the colour of adreniline is brown."

I'm most glad those worthy lads were on our side. But yes, they come with the finest reputation history offers its soldiers.

                                  Jack Halyard

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 08:34 AM

heard one story about a mixed raid of British SAS , American SEALS and Ghurkas.
The plan was to fly the group in low at 800 feet under cover of darkness into a heavily forrested area drop off the troops who would then trek 20 miles through the jungle and attack the heavily defended enemy post.

After the briefing the SAS said yes they were up for and ready to go.

The SEALS thought for a moment and said they to were ready.

The Ghurkas said they would have to think about it.

The commanding officer said whats up you are well trained well equiped. You have fought in jungles. And the large force of enemy you you meet will be surprised.
No it wasnt that they replied.

Was it the trek at night through the jungle.

No it was it that.

Was it flying low in a mountainous area at night.

No it wasnt that.

Well what is asked the commander you are all experienced and have parachuted into jungles before.

OH said the Ghurkas We get parachutes? Thats ok then.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 16 Jun 04 - 08:42 AM

another true story told to me by a good friend who served as a training/selection oficer with the Ghurkas.

Out in the jungle one night on exercise the group was awakened by a scream of disgust.
One Ghurka was dancing around the camp a blood dripping Kukri in hand. When asked what had happened he pointed to the two halves of a very large snake. He explanined he was having a strange dream and seemed to be suffocating. He woke up to find he was being swallowed by the snake. His head was just in its mouth as was his arm. So he did the obvious thing took out the kukri and cut off the snake just past the end of his hand and then prised the snake of his head and arm which was covered in digestive juices of the snake.

Now that what I call a nightmare!

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 06:00 AM

I believe that the pay and more importantly the pensions paid to Ghurkas serving in the British Army were limited through contract by the Nepalese Government, not the British.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 06:57 AM

That's settled the legal argument.
What about the moral one?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 07:25 AM

For my part Giok, I would offer each and every one full UK citizenship on completion of their engagement with an in-built package that entitles them to full pensions and gratuities on par with those paid to others in the British Army.

They are people for whom I have the greatest respect and admiration and regard the way they are treated as being a shameful scandal.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: mooman
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 08:00 AM

Although our politics are normally a little different Teribus, I agree with you absolutely 100% on this one.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 04:06 PM

Tell you what, I wouldn't fancy fare dodging on THAT service! (Not that I fare dodge anyway....)

And yes, it's disgusting that they will have far better pensions and employment rights on the buses than they did in the Army.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jun 04 - 08:00 PM

Google this: "The War Room - Unleash the Gurkhas"

I took a full-year history course when I was in university; The History of Human Conflict. I had read about war and warfare my whole life, and I came from a family that served and has served throughout its history. (I am not a pro-war person, and I went to jail for a few evenings while protesting the Vietnam War in the US). The professor was a retired Colonel of the Royal Marines, and he was a character. (I found it very interesting that so many of my instructors at university were ex or reserve military people. Blows away the notion that soldiers are stupid. (Another of my profs was a Lt. Commander in the Canadian Navy--Res., and he taught courses on Shakespeare. He could quote and quote and quote. Loved his class, too.) However . . .

If memory serves, when the SAS were in Oman (Battle of Mirbat), there were some Gurkhas with them. (I may have the battle wrong, but in essense the story is as was told to us in school by a man whom I believe.) The ROE (rules of engagement) were such that they were not allowed to shoot unless they were shot at first. To get the battle going, because the Gurkhas were getting restless, I understand that one of them stood atop a wall and exposed himself to the Omani troops. That was perceived as a mortal insult to the Omanis, and they took numerous shots at him. My professor said the Gurkha troop was wounded (flesh wound), but he got up and did it again while the battle raged. I don't know about you, guys and gals, but they are remarkable people. Would that England served them as well as they have served England.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 02:05 PM

Little cut-throat phychopaths who were shit on by their masters in Britain and paid a pittance in wages for cutting throats.
The terror war in Nepal at the moment is carried on by ex-British army Ghurkas.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 02:55 PM

. . .and your point is?

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: GUEST, Chelsea Pensioner
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 06:05 PM

There's almost as much bollox repeated about Gurkhas than there is about frigging Guinness:

Jack Halyard -- you spun us urban myth No. 123332 - here it is again:

www.battleofthebulge.org/musings/Mus022000.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Peace
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:07 PM

OK. What was I supposed to get from that link, sir?

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:19 PM

See - you generally find here that sooner or later you find yourself with someone you've been arguing with. In this case, Teribus just now, and how Gurkhas deserve a better deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 07:27 PM

See - you generally find here that sooner or later you find yourself agreeing with someone you've been arguing with. In this case, Teribus just now, and how Gurkhas deserve a better deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: JennyO
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 09:38 AM

GUEST, Chelsea Pensioner, assuming you are referring to the dog tag story, just because you have found a similar story somewhere on the internet does not mean that jack halyard spun an urban myth. All the story on your link says, is that a similar thing happened to several people, and who's to say that it didn't?

I know jack halyard very well and he was telling a true story, as told to him by his father.

If you have some sort of axe to grind, I suggest you take it somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: HuwG
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 04:43 PM

There is another hackneyed old joke about the Gurkhas. A Gurkha and a Japanese officer are engaged in a desperate hand-to-hand struggle in Burma in World War 2. The Japanese officer slashes with his sword. "Ha! Missed me!" says the Gurkha, who then swings with his kukhri. "Ha! Missed me!" says the Japanese officer. "Now nod your head", says the Gurkha.

This story is obviously apocryphal, but there is a better attested tale, related by Field Marshal Slim no less, in his book "Defeat into Victory". A Gurkha patrol presented themselves before their commanding officer which he was eating lunch. They calmly took four gory Japanese heads out of a reed basket, and put them in on the table in front of him. They then politely offered him the fish which filled the rest of the basket for his lunch.

****

I have met one or two officers in the British Army who had served with Gurkha units. Their loyalty had to be split between their orders from above, and their duty to their soldiers. In most cases they could reconcile the two only by becoming paternalistic towards their soldiers and at the same time obnoxiously boastful about them to other officers.

The same could sometimes be observed of officers and NCO's who had been attached to the Sultan of Oman's Armed Forces, who had recently defeated insurgents in the Dhofar Province. (This was the late 1970's and early 1980's.

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: jack halyard
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 05:30 PM

Re Guest Chelsea Pensioner.
Unless my father was reporting a lie- and he was very reluctant to talk about the gory details of his war service- There's no urban myth about his experience. And there's plenty of documented data about the Gurkha as both human and soldier. In the current climate, it would be all to easy to lump American soldiers together as thugs.
There are clearly at least some thugs in the British army, and there were some splended human beings fighting on the side of Hitler.
                            Jack Halyerd

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 08:53 AM

I was a tradesman attached to a Gurkha battalion for nearly three years in Hong Kong, Singapore and Borneo,
during the early sixties. The myths about the Gurkhas were old then, as were the arguements about whether they
were costing the British taxpayer more than other infantrymen, given that they had six months home leave after
every three years service, personally I enjoyed my time with them, and would have served another tour of duty
with them had family matters not intervened, but I must say that i was amazed to read that they were to be hired
as bus drivers. Perhaps the new generation have more road sense but their fathers and uncles were without a
doubt the WORST drivers I have ever encountered anywhere. For anyone who wants to read an admittedly biased
(in favour) account of one man's sevice with the Gurkhas before and during WW 2 they would be well advised to try
to find copies of John Master's autobiography:- "Bugles And A Tiger." and "The Road Past Mandalay."

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 12:57 PM

Wether all the Gurkhs stories reported are myts or not , one TRUE story is at the height of the fun and games when Sukarno's Indonesia was trying to take over Borneo , Sukarno got up at the UN to claim that Britain was NOT fighting fair because every time he tried to in filtrate terrorists into Borneo Britain was using Gurkhas to intercept them

Subject: RE: BS: Dont mix it with these chaps....
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 03:50 PM

There is one thing that frightens a Gurkha. That is the trip on the London Underground that is part of their acclimatisation to the UK.