BS: Passive smoking at sessions

Subject: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 06:41 AM

According to this story at the BBC, passive smoking increases the rosk of heart disease 50-60%.

Not nice if you're a non-smoker in a session. Would smokers object to me farting in their faces (which is also rude and unpleasant, but won't physically harm you)?.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 07:00 AM

"Won't physically harm you", Stigweard? We've only got your word for that. Can you cite any reputable medical research?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Sooz (at work)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 07:46 AM

Spending an hour teaching a group of 14 year old boys (recreational farting de rigeur) has never affected me in the same way as a similar time spent in a room with only a small number of smokers.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 07:49 AM

Were you teaching them recreational farting? Is this a conventional school subject? It is some years since I went to school, and perhaps curricula have changed since my day.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: 42
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 07:58 AM

Where does any session permit players to smoke? Smokers should just give up their instrument,take a break once in a while and go outside for pete's sake. that's simple courtesy and no one could be offended by that being part of a session's structure.

Could they?

j

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 07:59 AM

What are the chances if you are the first hand smoker. Heck, I might have to take up smoking for health reasons...

Right, Gregster?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Sooz (at work)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 08:26 AM

They don't need teaching, Greg. They are fluent by the time they reach secondary school!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 08:27 AM

I smoke, and I find ugly people at sessions offensive. If I agree to not smoke, could I have all the ugly people removed?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 08:53 AM

You woudn't have anybody left El Ted :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 08:59 AM

I have not had a cigarette since Oct 22, 2003, I'd have you know, Bobert. I am quite relaxed about people smoking in sessions, but I dont want anybody farting all the time. Pubs have centuries of tradition of being smoking and drinking places, but I think farters should start their own clubs.
   What I really cant be doing with is people from Yorkshire coming to sessions.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:17 AM

"Pubs have centuries of being smoking and drinking places" - The nail hit WELL and truly on the head there methinks!
Instead of mewling about smokers on mudcat, why don't all you right on, vegetable worshipping self righteous hippies KEEP OUT of PUBLIC houses, which the riff raff such as my self frequent, and hold your rareified sessions in your conservatories!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:46 AM

Right on, brother El Ted(you cant help living in Yorkshire). We do not want sessions full of people whose idea of a wild night out is sharing a pot of Rachel's Organic Yoghurt. Stay home and play with your juicer.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:50 AM

Stick it to 'em Greg!
It boils down to the old problem of so called "clubs" in a PUBLIC house.If you have hired a room for this purpose, then fair enough, you can impose any rules you fancy. But if you are in a public room then TOUGH! The law of the land applies.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:56 AM

I completely understand the sentiments, Greg and el ted. And I would have echo'ed them up until 3 or so weeks ago. That was when I had my heart attack. While I could never be so rude as to expect a Public House to clear the smokers on my account, I now find myself in the position of having second hand smoke endangering my life. I am not a vegetable worshipping self righteous hippie, but a heart patient who cannot tolerate the smoke. What this means is that I will not be able to sit in sessions where smoking is occuring.

Just my tuppence worth,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:05 AM

Where's Catspaw when you need him?

I grew up with a smoker. Everyone else in the house hated it and through conditioning are ardent opponents of smoking. We protested, complained, even went on strike over smoking related issues ("You wash your own stinky ashtrays!"--you know how bad those things smell when they're wet?), but my mother was unmoved. She had cigarettes going all during the dinner meal, all around the house, and though we protested, if she came into our bedrooms the cigarette came with her. "It's my house" was the answer of this otherwise very bright woman. She was forced to quit cold turkey when it was clear that she had Buerger's Disease. She smoked when she was pregnant. I resent it like hell that I was essentially an involuntary smoker for 19 years before I moved out. I might have lived at home for intervals after that but getting away from the smell was such a relief. I hated to take stuff into the house because it would pick up the stink. I have boxes of stuff that came from my mother's home after she died. If I couldn't clean it up or run it through the washer it is residing in the garage and gradually airing out.

I was at a club recently where there were maybe 20-25 people and there was one smoker. And that one selfish little twit would stink up the place for everyone else. And this is why I don't go out to public places like that, where the few can spoil it for the many.

SRS (okay, off of my soapbox)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Mr. Butts
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:06 AM

Well said, el ted.

It won't be long now, pick at leat one from the following: lung cancer, larynx cancer, cervix cancer (for the ladies), kidney cancer, pancreatic cancer, stomach cancer, abdominal aortic aneurysms, acute myeloid leukemia, cataracts, pneumonia, gum disease, heart attack, stroke, chronic bronchitis, emphysema, pneumonia, Alzheimer's, etc., etc. The list goes on and on.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:08 AM

Smokers are selfish assholes. My city and state are currently bartering over how best to make all bars smoke free. It won't come soon enough for most bar patrons and the employees who suffer second hand smoke as an occupational hazard.

I'm a former smoker, but I have no sympathy for so-called "smokers' rights". No one has a "right" to endanger other peoples' health because of their addiction, ESPECIALLY if it is a centuries old tradition. Anyone who claims their addiction/tradition trumps my rights to a safe environment is as bad as Dow Chemical in my book.

I've been going to smoke free sessions for years. They are wonderful. Maybe it is because the selfish smokers aren't there, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Mr. Butts
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:10 AM

Anybody that wants to be in the same room with the el teds of this world should read this article from The New Scientist.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:14 AM

And BTW, last time I checked, ugly people don't cause cancer, asthma, or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Second hand smoke, of course, does.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Stu
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:14 AM

The point is not to try and undermine the rights of smokers, but to protect the rights of non-smokers from physical harm because of the effects of inhaling someone else's smoke (along with the effects from drunk drivers, muggers, snipers and banjo players).

Farting isn't an activity that actually causes other people in the room physical harm (unless you've had a take-out from our local curry house, in which case go outside with the smokers!), even though, like smoking, it is unpleasant and anti-social.

I, like Big Mick (get better soon!) am not an veggie or a hippie (probably a bit self-righteous sometimes though), like several beers, scratchings and some hearty banter at my local session, but could do without inhaling someone elses cancer-enhancer all night.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:20 AM

dearie, dearie me! The Nanny state in action! Nowt gets you lot going more than smoking! I smoke, it will kill me, my choice! I enjoy it, and I pay HUGE amounts of extra tax for the priviledge. You should thank me, I will die young but before that, all my extra tax revenue will have been spent on your hip replacements!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:21 AM

A enlightened folk club I know banned smoking back in the 1980s. The smokers took it outside during the breaks and attendance shot up with non-smokers who had been staying away. That was almost 20 years ago and they haven't looked back.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:26 AM

el ted, quit being so defensive. I purposely tried to not cast aspersions on you, but rather just explain why I can no longer sit with smokers. I haven't heard anyone here say that you don't have a right to smoke. What we are saying is that you don't have a right to force us to breathe it. Agreed that you may do as you choose in a smoking pub. I just won't be there. I would prefer you keep your tax money, but if you choose to smoke that is fine. Just keep it to yourself. I have done a lot of thinking on this issue over the last weeks. Rather than banning cigarette smoking in pubs, I would prefer that they be required to post a large bit of signage stating that they allow smoking. That way they maintain their rights, and I can better exercise my right to choose not to go there.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:28 AM

dearie, dearie me! The Nanny state in action! Nowt gets you lot going more than smoking! I smoke, it will kill me, my choice!
I enjoy it, and I pay HUGE amounts of extra tax for the priviledge. You should thank me, I will die young but before that, all
my extra tax revenue will have been spent on your hip replacements!

El Ted,

I don't know where you live and the taxation/medical costs ratio there. But I can tell you that in Canada, the collective federal and provincial taxes on tobacco products do not begin to cover the increased load that smoking imposes on the universal health care system.

Statistically, you will probably die young. However, unless you go immediately from a heart attack or stroke, which is very possible, the costs of treating you for the heart, lung or other smoking-caused diseases you contract will be extremely expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:32 AM

Backstage Manager: dont sound so pleased about your predictions.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:35 AM

It's ok Big Mick, I enjoy these smoking related dust ups. The thing that bugs me is that once the brown rice brigade have got smoking in public places banned, what's next? Force fat people to diet? I reckon that's next on the Nanny state's agenda.
Any of you lot fat? I'm not. I'm 6ft tall and weigh 12stone. Come on all you fatties let's be having you, then I can get all indignant and self righteous about people who live above pie shops!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:37 AM

I can assure you that I'm not pleased at all. I think it's tragic. I've lost too many good friends, three in the last two years, and several relatives to smoking-caused diseases.

I can tell you that watching someone you care about die many years before their time is quite unpleasant.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:39 AM

I wish the unco guid would get their heads round one very simple fact. You dont have to go in pubs. You may like to, but you dont have to. Big Mick surely has the right of it... a polite request that he'd like to come to the session, but he really cant for medical reasons, so how about it lads?
   No lectures, no ranting,no gleeful predictions of how ill the smokers will soon become. He will win. By politeness. We dont need all this bossyboots stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:39 AM

Nanny state my ass. You are a junkie. An addict. You are trying to justify your addiction to yourself, by proclaiming that it is the non-addicted who are blinkered thinkers. You are so fearful of being socially ostracized for your addiction, that you project your paranoia onto everyone and everything, instead of taking ownership for what you are actually doing: harming others.

So fuck you too, laddie.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: 42
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:41 AM

I'm a smoker too but I don't feel compelled to impose it on others. I guess living in Ontario where there are only (to my knowledge) three municipalities which allow smoking in public places (patios etc excluded)I've become accustomed to taking it out.

not sure how you can play and smoke at the same time anyway.
j

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:45 AM

I bet you are a fatty aren't you Backpassage Manager? Be careful, Nanny is watching You!
Anyway, I'm bored now, so I am going into the garden for a fag. For the record it will be a home roll, comprised of samson in rizla blue papers.
Hmmm.... I feel a new thread coming on, "should fat people be banned from sessions"..... answers on a postcard please...

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:51 AM

Fat people don't harm others either, el ted.    Nor do fat, ugly people.

You obviously are both bigot and asshole there, el ted. You do keep trying to suck people into your personal prejudices (ugly people, fat people) to deflect attention from the fact that people hate smokers too, maybe in hopes that someone will tell you that what you are doing is acceptable and reasonable.

It isn't, you aren't, and so let me reiterate. I hope your addiction speeds you down the road to where you are headed, which from all appearances looks pretty damn hellish. May your suffering be short.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:51 AM

Oooooh GUEST, you've got such a clever way with words. I think from internal analysis of your interesting post, it was addressed to El ted and not to me. Good, otherwise I might have said "Poo bum to you too". Anyway, keep being rude to him, he comes from Hull, and pretends to be Spanish, which he isnt.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Homeless
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:52 AM

I wish I could hear what Rick would have to say on this topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:55 AM

No, I'm not fat.

But that's not the issue. No one gets fat just by being in the same room with a fat person. We are, though, forced to be a smokers, and put or health and lives at risk, when we're in the same room with a lit cigarette.

Anyway, el ted, things are changing. Compare the amount of smoke-friendly places today to that of just five years ago. "No-smoking in all public places" laws are spreading to more and more jurisdictions in the western world. Look at Ireland, for example. Sooner, or later, and probably sooner than you think, the laws will change where you are too.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:57 AM

If calling a spade a spade is rude, then I'm rude. Proud to be rude.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:59 AM

I'm back. Did I miss much? Any fatties come out of the closet yet? You will be next! Then I think they will move onto Drinkers, followed fishermen (too cruel) hunting (damn near gone anyway) and morris dancers (too weird)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:59 AM

"forced" Backstage Manager? I've been in a few smoky rooms recently in pubs, but I dont recall anybody frogmarched me in there. I'm sure I would remember something as rude and unusual as that.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:01 AM

PS - GUEST, if you haven't got the balls to post under your real name then you can go take a flying fuck! Rant on darlings.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:03 AM

Hey, dont be nasty to me GUEST. I'm not a stinky smoker. But that El Ted is, that naughty boy, I seen him out in the garden with his smelly Samson. Let's all chuck bricks at him.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:05 AM

Yes, forced. When we're in a room with burning tobacco products, we're forced to be smokers.

And yes, there are choices to be made. Although I choose to generally avoid somoky places, there are times when I cannot, and am "forced" to be a second-hand smoker.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:06 AM

El ted
I can understand how you feel, but unless you are made of some super human strength and resolve, you will, not enjoy having cancer.
I used to smoke 50 a day, stopped smoking 26 years ago and finished up with cancer caused from smoking 6 years ago. Its not nice beleive me.
I dont have smoking at my club now (put a ban on 3 weeks ago), not because of me, but for the protection of all the other people at the club. I feel I have a responsabilty to all the artists, Ashmatics (? spelling), heart sufferers, young performers and children and anybody else that can't tolerate smoke. Which represent thew greater majority of the club.
I have only had one smoker react like you about the decision. As much as I would love him to still come to the club, I will not reverse my decision. Shame that I have to lose him, but it seems that the majority have overruled in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:07 AM

greg stephens, patrons have choice, employees don't.

You are dinosaurs. You smokers (and former smokers who wish they still smoked) will be huddled in their digusting smoking dens and soon enough, and be gone from all public spaces. You won't be missed, regardless of how "polite" you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:11 AM

You wont be missed either GUEST, you coward! We are having a typical heated mudcat debate that will resolve nothing, and you have to spoil it! Bat on lads, I might get the 100th post on this thread before I have to log off for the day!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:14 AM

I've worked in bars, GUEST, but I dont recall that anybody made me. If people are being forced to work in bars, this sounds shocking, I'm surprised I havent read about it in the Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: 42
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:41 AM

the voice of reason gives up!
j

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 12:15 PM

I'm bored now, so I am toddling off to theThunderbirds thread for a bit. Enjoy this one lads, I will try and sneak back for the 100th post.
                TTFN

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 12:35 PM

Hey Ted, c'mon fella, it's all getting outta hand here - I'm fat (5'7" and 17 stone of relaxed muscle) but I don't smell bad, I don't cling to the clothing of those near me, I don't give other people sore throats and a cough, I don't discolour the room decor, I'm not carcinogenic, I'm not a fire risk, in fact I'm no threat to anyone (unless I fall on them) LOL :0)

I'm also a voracious carnivore, I hate brown rice and I've never hugged a tree in my life. I was brung up in a home where mum smoked like a twitch heap and dad didn't smoke at all, so I saw both sides of the smoking argument. I also held my mum's hand while she died very horribly (I'd describe it to you but it's too X-Rated to put on here) of emphysema which the doctor said was smoking-induced.

Smokers can be good people too - judging by your posts on other threads and our PMs you certainly are - and I make no judgment on them for smoking, they need to smoke so OK let them. But I also need not to smoke and I appreciate it if the smokers show consideration for me by not forcing me to breathe not only their smoke, but (yeeeuuuggghhhhhhh!!) smoke that's already been through their lungs. That's all. A reasonable request?

And I try very hard not to fart in public places :0) ROFL

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Les from Hull
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 01:27 PM

I agree that we smokers could be more sensitive to the needs of non-smokers. Maggie and I will share tiny roll-ups when there are sensitive non-smokers about. But I only smoke when I drink. And I only drink when I go out playing music. It's all part of the same thing to me. I'm sure I could enjoy playing and singing without the benefit, but I'd rather not try.

If you read the article at the BBC website you'll see that the anti-smoking lobby chose some rather unscientific research and poor use of statistics to favour a ban on smoking in all public places. There's no suggestions as to having smoking pubs and non-smoking pubs, or recommendations for air filtration. The very idea of banning smoking in pubs (where of course everyone goes for their health) is ludicrous to me.

I'm very sorry for those of you with lung disease, heart disease, cancer etc and for those of you who have lost loved ones because of these diseases. But smoking isn't the only cause of these diseases. Stop treating it like it is.

It's just that smokers are a small minority now so we're fair game for the anti-smoking fascists. I live next to the busiest road in Hull, so I am forced to breathe the products of burning petroleum, all day, every day. And I ride a pushbike. What are the chances of banning the internal combustion engine?

And stop picking on Ted. Or if you must, try using some sort of name so there's a chance that we can avoid you in real life.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sooz
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 01:39 PM

Sorry, but I don't need any scientific evidence. After an evening in a smoky pub I spend the night wheezing and unable to sleep and I cannot do my job effectively the next day. QED