BS: Passive smoking at sessions

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 06:40 AM

Ted just so as you are aware "Gawith Hoggarth's" is Latin for Whitby Waste Recycling Emporium.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 04:35 AM

Good morning hippies,
                     I have returned from a weeks mountain biking on't moors and come back to find you all still at it! Anyway, I digress, for all you lurking smokers out there I must share this tit bit with you. Yesterday I found a gorgeous smokers requisites shop in Whitby called Gawith Hoggarth's, where they have literally dozens of different hand rolling tobaccos. I bought an ounce of "black cherry" and an ounce of "Turners" divine!
          Brown rice, the true path!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Jul 04 - 06:50 PM

Sooz: shertainly - hic!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 04:30 PM

Ted Think Shed

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 11:56 AM

What goes around comes around!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 11:51 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3600049.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 11:47 AM

A report this week out of the UK, I think, announced conclusive proof that second hand smoke increases the risk of heart attack dramatically. The most interesting part of the study's conclusions is that it does not take prolonged exposure to produce results as previously thought. I heard this on a TV news report. See if I can find more.
M.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Stu
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 10:33 AM

But not quite, el Ted me lad!

I started this thread to see what people thought about inhaling second-hand fag smoke, and I am pleased to say there has been some good, lively debate on both sides.

As a reformed smoker, the worst type of self-righteous git you will come across, I fall into the anti-smokers, pro-ban camp, though it will be a sad day really. Better if the smaggos exercised a little consideration for the majority and nipped out for a puff between songs, then we can all continue to enjoy the music well all love so much, together.

stigWeard the pork-scratching munching, beer-swilling white-bread-eating non-hippy leftie

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,the real thing
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:33 AM

100. i thank you. my work here is done.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,not ted
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:32 AM

99

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,not ted
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:31 AM

98

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,ted in shreddies
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 08:28 AM

97

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 05:40 AM

Oh of course - forgot about that one. Wondered why you were so late.

Drinking - I'll be honest - not enough :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sooz
Date: 04 Jul 04 - 05:30 AM

Now then Les - we had to take Strollin' into town before we came home . Did you think we made him walk?
TB you are quite correct, butisn't that also about the time people start to be honest about how much they drink as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 07:18 PM

Government Health warning; igniting cigarettes and farting at the same time can lead to explosion: fart gas contains methane.
Being a grass-roots health service worker, I can only say that many smokers have immense powers of self-delusion, and they are totally incapable of giving you a straight answer as to how many they smoke. Most people who give up only do so after they've had their first heart attack/stroke/blood clot. Smoking does you more harm than being overweight, but being both a smoker and overweight is even more lethal.
Now that there are actually more non-smokers about than smokers, surely the majority's preference should prevail over the minority's?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 12:36 PM

Not getting home till nearly 1 am ?
Did you get held up by a tractor then?
What timne was it when you left the club?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sooz
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 05:27 AM

The morning after... a bit bleary eyed after not getting home from Market Rasen until nearly 1am, but breathing easily and not having to stuff all of our clothes into the washing machine. A great night. Lincoln folk club tonight, no smoking there either.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 11:51 AM

Ah, smog warning for Whitby area. (LOL)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 11:35 AM

Relax girls. In 2hours 41minutes (approx) I will be in Whitby for the night.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 11:24 AM

I have reason to be worried about tonight!!!!
Sheepshagging fart wrenching smokers - oh my god, the club will close.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 11:13 AM

Ted! Be nice - you know it's in the Land Of Sheep-Shaggers, Lincolnshire!

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 09:46 AM

It's in Lincolnshire

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 09:45 AM

I might sneak up and blow smoke through your windows, nail them shut just in case. Hang on, where the hell is Market Rasen anyway? West Yorkshire?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,smoker
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 09:44 AM

Attention non-smokers!!!!

We know that smoking will probably kill us long before our time. We don't care.

We've seen friends and family die from smoking. We don't care.

We know that our second-hand smoke is a health hazard to our children and other people around us. We don't care.

We know that smoking wrinkles our skin and makes us look much older than we really are. We don't care.

We know that smoking makes our clothes and bodies stink worse than a room full of farting bean eaters. We don't care.

We know how much money we spend on smokes and we know that most of it is extra taxes you health nazis don't pay. We don't care.

Get it? We don't care.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 09:39 AM

Oh dear, does that mean I have to hand the gas masks out Strollin', or are you going to do it outside with the smokers?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 09:07 AM

Don't follow through

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 08:52 AM

Just thinking outside the box isn't it the case that, the more that smokers insist on their right to smoke anywhere they want regardless of how they affect other people, the more likely it is that it will be made illegal in the very places they claim to be their rightful territory, the pubs? By fighting progress, aren't the smokers merely hastening the inevitable?

I'm going to Market Rasen Folk Club tonight - smoking's banned but I'm hoping there'll be a farting contest at half-time. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 06:50 AM

When I were a lad, we didn't 'ave any of this passive smoking - yer 'ad ter buy yer own !

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 06:39 AM

Sorry I could only fart Ted, but I dont smoke because its a filthy habit.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 06:17 AM

Last night at The Marlborough club was fabulous! We developed an excellent blue smoke haze in the room, it got that dense we had to open the window in the end, what a waste! So thanks to Dave o, les, maggie, mick, jOhn, claire and chum for contibuting to the fog.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 05:26 AM

I think smokers will have to bow to the inevitable: smoking will be banned in UK pubs restaurants, etc sometime soon.

In Ireland it has resulted in most pubs making provision for smokers with outside areas where a smoke can still be enjoyed along with a pint, and where there is music it can usually still be heard in these areas. For the smoker, it becomes no more than a minor inconvenience.

wr (sometime singer and inveterate smoker)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 04:04 AM

I'd ban all Yorkshire gits from sessions. They are all fat, ugly, pie eating, smokers anyway...;-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 04:04 AM

76

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 12:09 AM

On the passive smoking question.

I'm a non-smoker.   Smoke bothers me a lot--in a smoky pub I will move around trying to find a place that isn't as smoky, including sitting on the floor, hoping the smoke will rise. I wouldn't dream of asking people not to smoke while I'm in the pub. I've been in at least one very smoky pub when some of the best, and certainly the most fun music I've ever heard was sung. I was privileged to be a part of it and I would never have left the pub voluntarily.

However, this topic brings up a related one. I'm sure you've noticed the heartbreakingly long list of obits on Mudcat of musicians in general. It's fairly obvious that at least of those on this list who made their living mostly by playing or singing music, many were either smokers or were exposed to smoke on a continuous basis for years. Who's to say that if they hadn't either smoked or been exposed to smoke for a protracted period (probably decades) that many wouldn't still be with us? Some of the most talented people in various different spheres have smoked themselves to death, including Nat King Cole, Bogart, and Ian Fleming.

We non-smokers are not just our own advocates, nor are we holier-than-thou do-gooders.   We really want you talented smokers, (many with great repertoires, winning personalities and amazingly good voices, considering all the smoking you do) to be around for a long time, so the entire folk community can continue to benefit from your wonderful talents. You are fantastic people--why don't you want to stay around?

The best way to maximize the chances of this is for you to quit smoking, or at least cut back.   Nobody who steps outside for a smoke will ever smoke as much as somebody who stays inside lighting one after the other, This of course is partly since nobody wants to miss the music.

I know one session leader, with a great voice, who has made exactly this switch--she no longer smokes inside, but will step outside for a cigarette. Both music and smoking are addictions, but since they are, there is a chance the healthier of the two will win out, even for smokers.

Here's Big Mick, in the most polite way possible, asking if he can continue to participate in pub sessions without being forced to run the risk of joining all those other talented musicians whom we will never hear live again. Isn't that a reasonable request? The less smoky a pub is, the better for everybody, including smokers.

Again, everybody, even smokers, recognizes that smoking is unhealthy, in fact life-endangering. You smokers are great people--why don't you want to stay around?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 05:26 PM

A man I care very deeply for ended up with cancer of the throat as a result of many years as a smoker. He has not, to date, regained the wonderful voice that was destroyed as a result of the cancer and this has put a stop to his activities as a storyteller and folk singer. He also recently underwent heart bypass surgery, probably brought on, again, as a result of many year's smoking.

He is unable,as a result, to tolerate smoky atmospheres. Unfortunately most of the venues for folk music that I know of are in pubs where smoking is permitted. Ergo, we have found it difficult to go to the places that allow us to enjoy the music we love.

I am an ex smoker, gave up twenty years ago and am glad that I did. I find, myself, that sitting near smokers can leave my throat feeling very uncomfortable and quite often THEY have come and sat near ME, not the other way round.

I would welcome the idea of some pubs being non-smoking. That would allow me to go to sessions in those pubs without having to breathe in other people's smoke. If that were the case and I wanted to start a session I would choose a non-smoking pub. If others want to smoke then, OK, maybe they can go to pubs that allow this but don't run folk sessions. Would that make everyone happy? I wonder, if there was a choice, how many organisers would choose a smokers' pub?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 03:35 PM

El Ted, only if those ugly people were damaging other people's lungs.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 02:21 PM

JudeL: thank God, someone I can seriously agree with. I am sure your approach is the way forward. And you will, incidentally win(I confidently predict). I doubt if there will be many smoky sessions in a couple of years time, law change or not. Public opinion is changing, thank God.
And, yes I have been uttering simplistic stuff on this thread (you have to, when you are arguing with unfortunately challenged people); but I hope you are not accusing me of saying "if they dont like my smoke, they dont have to come to public places". To set the record straight, I am a non-smoker. But I do not wish my smoking friends to be abused by hypocrites for doing what they've always done in pubs where that's what people do.
    And I continue to find the argument unanswerable "if you want to criticise smokers in a pub, turn up on a bike or in your own two feet". Drivers criticisng smokers is just the height (or depth) of gut-churning hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: JudeL
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 01:47 PM

Setting aside all the hype & dogmatism, for me it does come down to choices & consideration.

If at a venue a smoker wanting to smoke choses to leave the room for a few minutes, get their fix (for it is an addiction, like any other) they can then return to the room and carry on enjoying the music & the company. It costs them little but courtesy as while they are actually smoking (as opposed to leaving their cigarette smoldering in an ashtray) they are not using their hands & mouth to sing or play.

For someone for whom smoke is a problem, it is rarely sufficient to go outside & get a "fix" of fresh air, which will then "magically" counteract the effect of the smoke & enable them to return to enjoy the music & the company. It is more likely that they will have to leave & not return.

I am one of those who do not smoke & cannot cope with a smoky atmosphere. Since developing asthma,it is no longer a choice but an imperative as there are times when I literally cannot breathe because of poor air quality. There are any number of places I would like to go & music I would like to enjoy but because a few choose to smoke in the venue I have no choice but to stay away. This includes any number of places where I have paid for my ticket to enter only to find that I cannot stay because I cannot breathe. It has been said that no-one is forced to go to a smoking venue & this is true but it is also true that the choices of smokers limit the choices of others.

If a person choses to smoke I am not going to bother to remind them of all the health problems they are liable to be causing themselves & others. They cannot live in our society without being aware of it & if they chose to ignore / minimise or disbelieve that then nothing that is said to them will change their minds.

I am not going to descend to the playground mentality of name calling or the one upmanship of the impact of weight or drink on individuals health, nor would I suggest trying to force people to give up smoking.

But I do believe that it is as simplistic and self absorbed to say " if they don't like my smoke they don't have to come to public places", as it is for the non smoker to suggest legislation banning all sales of tobacco (as prohibition in america once tried to ban alcohol). Neither idea has the merit of common sense or consideration for others.

I would however ask that those who chose to smoke consider the limits that their behaviour and choices impose on others.

You don't need to be a tree hugging, brown rice eating, vegetarian hippy to believe that everyone should be able to have the choice & freedom to go to places to enjoy music.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: ossonflags
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 01:39 PM

I wonder how many of these people who are trumpeting from the roof tops about us drug addicts, drive motor vehicles that sling out massive amounts of toxic fumes and use these same vehicles to drive to their non smoking sessions.

Call me an old traditionalist if you will, but I will stick to smoking and farting.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 01:25 PM

Well said, Sweetfia. there arent half some offensive ****s around here, but as you point out they lurk as GUESTS. Best ignored, but it's very difficult to ignore the seriously obnoxious if they barge into your space and start screamig offensive drivel. I try to avoid arguing with guest trolls but it's so tempting sometimes you can't help yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 12:54 PM

Quite a few years ago now, smoking at work was considered quite normal. Then more and more places of work became non-smoking. The smokers went outside if they wanted a smoke, no problem. Now it is considered very unusual to see someone smoking in an office - people adapt.

I've always thought non-smoking areas in pubs, etc, are a bit daft, something like having a "no-pissing" end in a swimming pool. The total ban on smoking in pubs in Ireland has seemed to have worked quite well, Norway has introduced the same legislation within the last couple of months? I'm pretty certain the UK will follow.

I smoke, but due to the habit of nipping outside, acquired at work, I never smoke indoors, be it my house or in a pub. Cut down the amount I smoke dramatically. No smoking law inside pubs, great news, they can't bring it in quick enough - people adapt.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Sweetfia
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 12:25 PM

GUEST, you a fuckin coward, you are only saying those things about my dad (El Ted) because you a hidden behind a 'GUEST'. At least my dad and others (for and aginst smoking) have the balls to say what they feel while being logged in as member.

If i ever get to know who you are, you will really live to regret telling my dad to fuck off. I respect everybody elses views on this controversial topic, but no way am i sitting back and letting my dad be spoken to like that.

For those we do not know my dad, please do not take any offense to some of my dad's post it they seem abit personal, it's just his sence of humour.

Neway, back to the topic. There are smoking folk clubs and non-smoking folk clubs...non-smokers do have a choice as to where they go, which is why i am confused as to why this thread was started. There will always be smokers, so non-smokers will just have to get used to it. I also have my fair of family horror stories against smoking but i am not about to challenge smokers, they smoke because they want to and there is nothing i can do about it. So why even try!? And there are now alot of pubs which have smoking and non-smoking sections. However, i know some non-smokers will never be happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Smoking kills
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 12:20 PM

It's enough to make smokers fuming mad, but plans to bring American style no smoking bars to our towns and cities could save thousands of lives.
One hundred and twenty thousand smokers die every year of smoking-related diseases such as lung cancer and heart attacks, six times the number killed in road accidents.
The North East of England is one of the worst offenders with 30% of the population lighting up compared with 27% in the country as a whole.
According to the World Health Organisation, one out of every two long-term smokers will be killed by tobacco.
        
        
From 1985-2000, tobacco has killed more than 60 million people in the developed countries alone, more than died in World War Two.
In the North East it's a similar story with one of the worst mortality rates from smoking-related illnesses in the UK.
In this part of the country 85 men and 44 women per 100,000 contract lung cancer each year compared to the national average of 72 men and 35 women.
But what would be the effect of declaring war on tobacco, and would smokers be happy to comply with a ban on smoking in public places?
Inside Out decided to find out. We asked the University of Newcastle's Medical School to carry out a survey into smoking.
The results suggest that the majority of people would support an overall smoking ban in public places.
Sixty three per cent of North Easterners surveyed were in favour a ban.

An overwhelming majority of 83% agreed with a ban on lighting up in restaurants and cafes.

The main reasons people gave in support of a ban were:
* to improve their own health - 31%
* to improve the health of others - 36%
* to reduce unpleasant smells - 25%
* to prevent environmental damage - 6%
But a third of people in the survey said that they would oppose a ban. Unsurprisingly, the "no" lobby was especially strong from smokers, 56% of whom opposed an overall ban.
The main reasons given were:
* it would be a breach of civil liberties (19%)
* they were active smokers (14%)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 11:35 AM

On the contrary, the pubs I go in these days all seem to have a notice up somewhere explaining their smoking policy. I believe they are required to...or maybe it is voluntay? Anyway, the notices are there. Possibly not in every pub, I generally have better things to do than peer around reading notices, but I have seen many of these, and they follow a standardised format which suggests they are some sort of requirement.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Smoking kills
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 11:25 AM

"It has a notice up saying you can"
The notice is to say you can drink, you don't need a smoking licence. You can smoke and harm yourself and others. If you drink you just harm yourself.

Which bit of that can't you comprehend?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: el ted
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 11:18 AM

Greg,
    Abondon thread. The PC brigade posting here will never accept the point you have made. Pop over to the thunderbirds thread, it is much more fun.
             ps SINGAROUND
            THE BLACKSMITHS ARMS
             FARLINGTON
                YORK
             YO61 6NW

          FRIDAY 16TH JULY
tel [phone]

(didn't want to totally waste a post)

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 11:08 AM

I know you cant understand this very simple and obvious point, "GUEST smoking kills", but I'll say it again, and try to use short words. Some pepole are sitting drinking and smoking in a pub. That is what the pub is for. It has a notice up saying you can. It has always been like that. I go in and sit beside them .That is my choice. They are not forcing anything whatsover on me. I know smoke is bad for you. I can see and smell they are smoking. It is 100% up to me whether I stay or go.
   Which bit of that can't you comprehend?

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST,Smoking kills
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 10:59 AM

I am utterly incensed at the tone of those people who believe they can inflict the output from their revolting habit on anyone they please. Wake up and listen, stop making pathetic excuses for killing people with your disgusting habit. It is always the same old pathetic excuses about freedom of choice, but you are only talking about your freedom of choice to inflict harm onto others which you are happy to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 01:51 AM

I have been a life-long non-smoker and always choose no-smoking carriages on trains. In a cafe or pub, I normally choose the non-smoking area to sit in. I would not encourage people to smoke in my car and, if a visitor to my house politely offers to smoke out in the garden in mid-winter, I happily accept without any pangs of guilt. I would certainly object if I was asked to spend day after day sharing an office with a heavy smoker.

However, I do try to be tolerant of other peoples needs (smokers are addicts, after all, and shouldn't be expected to go cold turkey). I go to sessions in pubs where smoking is allowed but this is normally only for a couple of hours, once or twice a month. I like making music with a pint of good ale in front of me and prefer the ambiance of the public bar to being isolated in a back room as part of a private function. As an infrequent customer, I would not expect the regulars to change on my behalf. My need for a musical fix overrides my fear of secondary smoking.

If concern for the effects of our actions on others is the main concern, then perhaps we should only listen to the non-smokers who walk or cycle to the session.

Doug C

Subject: RE: BS: Passive smoking at sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 09:20 PM

I've never met him, so I don't know how ugly he is, but I do know that he smells just like a dirty ashtray.