BS: Respect and civility

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:36 PM

Interesting you should mention Friar Tuck Martin. A colleague and I are hoping to set up a Robin Hood theme park in Lincolnshire within the next two years..all being well. I suppose I could wear the Friar Tuck robe but exposing myself is something I have never considered.
Poor contribution from you Martin just to be No 100 on the thread.
Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: GUEST,KT
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:44 PM

Georgiansilver, thanks for wishing goodness for me! I choose to receive your good wishes in a positive way. I wish you the same! KT

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 01:50 PM

S'ok Amos. I've said enough stuff I wish I hadn't in these threads over the years.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:05 PM

Thanks, Harpgirl: I don't have an agenda. I don't consider mudcat a particularly good place to discuss faith... or even a lack thereof.
I have my hands full trying to live a loving life without advising anyone else how to live theirs. Which is probably why I've had such close, lifetime friendships with people who are Atheists. That said, my faith is a part of who I am as a human being, just as my age is, and the part of the country I grew up. It would be artifical for me to feel that I have to completely deny part of who I am to be welcome in here. That would be denying myself of friendships because of difference in faith.

And for the record, I don't think that there are many people who find George Bush and the Christian Right more offensive than I do. The Christian Right doesn't speak for any Christians that I know.

As for the salutation "Be Blessed" each of us has the choice of accepting it in the spirit in which we perceive that it is being offered. Someone could say "Screw you," and you'd accept it as a loving comment if you knew the person. In the same way, someone could say "God Bless You," and you'd think to yourself, "Yeah, RIIIIIGHT! because you know the insincerity of the "blessing."

Here on Mudcat, most of us are these funny little black letters of the alphabet arranged in a semi-coherent order. We aren't flesh and blood, and we have a very one-dimensional relationship with each other. I spend as much time reading between the lines as I do reading what is posted. That means that, while I am in complete disagreement with Bill D (as an example) I respect and like him, and would enjoy knowing him in 3-D.

Much is in how we perceive the motivations of others. And sadly, too often, what WE carry within us colors our perceptions so radically that we only see a reflection of ourselves.

I have no problem with people believing differently than I do. Or even thinking that I'm full of it. Or delusional. But, I'm all for a little more respect and civility on mudcat. It seems to be in increasingly short supply around here.

As Leadbelly sang, "We're in the same boat, Brother."

May good things come to all..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Pogo
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:27 PM

That's a nice way of putting it Jerry. Mmm-hmm. *nods* I likes it.

Foolstroupe: LOL Uhm...yeah...sumpin' like that...

And in parting, live long and prosper, may your kumquats be numerous and may chickens never spontaneously combust on your front porch.

{O) {OD

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Blackcatter
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:37 PM

Yep - gotta watch them chicken's inhaling too much swamp gas.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:40 PM

Jerry ...Im not in your boat.
You're bound for Glory.........Im bound for Hell....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:57 PM

You never know, ake.. :-) Right now, all we have is the moment.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: JennyO
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 10:54 PM

Thankyou Georgiansilver.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Peace
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:13 PM

Be screwed. Why doesn't anyone . . . ah, never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Blackcatter
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:25 PM

I'm hoping to Brucie. Met a nice lady at church today. She let me give her the special tour, if you know what I mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 11:47 PM

Did you show her your apse?

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:29 AM

What a Knave!or is it Nave?

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:36 AM

A Nava(e)l Tour?

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:57 AM

That took guts! Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:14 AM

Not being religious, I have no especial reaction to GS's "Be Blessed", though I do think I once responded on some thread or other to him with "Blessed Be". I thought I was just returning a nice energy coming my way back to him in another form.

I really do understand the impact of words, even to the point of having written a note to Joe Offer about removing a thread that had become so filled with explicitives and nasty thoughts that even my most liberal of minds reeled from the onslaught it had to my psyche.

We need to be cogniscent of the power of words-how easily they can be misinterpreted, and how effectively they can be used to offend, defend, or influence. Each time we tap out our little (or large) postings here at Mudcat is an opportunity to connect or disconnect with others.

This thread is as good an example of any on how this works for us, and I for one am glad to be a part of the continuing discussions.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 02:00 PM

I think many people are trying to have it both ways. GS says "be blessed" and claims that he isn't trying to spread his religios beliefs or prosletyse because "I love all Gods kids (even those who don't know Him personally) and think that each of us....however brought into the world...however brought up...should be given the benefit of the doubt."

Perhaps he can't see how condescending this is. First of all, he defines others as people who don't know God personally, then says he will give us "the benefit of the doubt" anyway. So it's not a question of "I see your beliefs as the equal of mine" but "I see mine as the REAL path to God, and yours as an error, but I don't blame you for the error." Mighty white of you, as they used to say.

On the OTHER hand...

Be Blessed is just what folklorists call a "leave-taking formula." It is just like "have a nice day," actually, or "see you later, alligator," or indeed like "Goodbye" which was originally "God be by you" (in the sense of 'with you'). Some of us use a sort of personalized leave-taking that expresses our own personality, and if GS is a Christian then his "be blessed" is no different than my friend Ozzie's "Peace, man." Both could be read as foisting an ideology on you, but I don't think either is intended that way.

So GS, no problem with the "be blessed" thing. And I do understand that your belief system may truly be unable to perceive other religions as equally valid and right; it is rare for a religion to be that accepting, of course. So you should be aware that an attitude that your religion is superior DOES sometimes come through in what you say, and may continue to do so whenever you talk about religion. Perhaps the best solution would be not to talk much about religion except in religious forums.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: GUEST,Garton Mibson
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:08 PM

Friar Tuck. Friar Tuck. Friar Tuck. Lends a whole new meaning to the "Lincolnshire Poacher'

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: GUEST,cookieless Norton1
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:11 PM

God bless you Amos - heck - God Bless you all - In specific - may the God I worship bless you all.

Funny how a belief system so dedicated to peace can be found so offensive in this particular den of supposed peace advocates.

Have a bad day Amos??

Thank you GS - And God bless you and yours also -

Steve

PS - I think someone once told me - if you don't like it there is a BS filter and common sense available for you to make your choices from.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:22 PM

If you think that all beliefs and religions are equal, then what's the point? Might's well be a member of the Church of Whatever.. Having a strong belief is not in itself condescending to others. It had absolutely nothing to do with others. It's an intensely personal experience that is non-tranferable. Respecting others and treating them lovingly depends on what you believe, NOT on what they believe.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:35 PM

I agree, Jerry. That's why I said very few religions are that accepting. This is precisely why religion is a sensitive topic. You literally cannot talk about your religion and at the same time avoid saying that someone else's deeply-held beliefs are wrong.

Saying to others "you are wrong" is impolite. And when GS says "I love all Gods kids (even those who don't know Him personally)," he is essentially saying "some of you do not know God, hence your religion is wrong." It would probably be better simply not to say this, but of course he has the right to say whatever he wants. It's just ironic that he started this thread for "respect and civility" and ended up, unwittingly I'm sure, making some people feel disrespected.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 03:48 PM

I think that GS started this thread because he wanted to be treated with respect and civility. We all want that. I don't believe he consciously meant to be disrespectful of others, himself.

Want a real zinger? My wife was always fond of saying, "I love you.. I just don't like the things that you do." Now, theologically, there's nothing wrong in that statement. But somehow it sounded infuriatingly judgmental, sugar-coated with a statement that "I love you." Now, if GS signed off THAAAAT way, I'd be the one to blow my top. :-)

Howzabout a closing salutation "Have a generic day?


Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: GUEST,Blackcatter at work
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 04:27 PM

GS started this thread because it is all about him around here. He's sitting back and enjoying this mere because we're talking about him.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that.


As for: Funny how a belief system so dedicated to peace

Am I to assume that you're talking about Chirstianity? If so, why do so many Christians kill? Please. That's just a silly statement regardles of the fact that may be a lot of Christians at Mudcat are peace-loving and don't have notches on their belts.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 07:46 PM

GUEST Blackcatter at work....I really don't claim to be happy to be talked about, nevertheless I am happy for anyone to question my opinions or statements on any thread. I don't hold myself above anyone else because of my beliefs. We were all thrust into this world..not by choice...and have to make our own way as best we can.. I just try..like everyone else, using the framework of my life experience...If yours differs from mine..so be it.. I can't change it. Be Blessed.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: GUEST,Augie
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:31 PM

I've just read this thread from beginning to end and was reminded of nothing so much as"The Dutchman" author Michael Smith's recent lines;


"Some Say it was a Big Bang,others, Seven Days
But in this Clockwork Universe with its Convoluted Ways...
There's Doubt for those with evidence,and Faith for those with none.
Every Sense and Mind Agrees, an Artist Lives in All of These,
One who knows Intrinsically
Such Things are Finely Done,
Such Things are Finely Done."

No one has the One True Answer.There are as many different,true answers as there are people asking the question.

I'm comfortable with mine. I hope you are with yours. And if yours is different from mine, well at least lets try try to play in tune with each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: curmudgeon
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 09:39 PM

When Woody Guthrie was being admitted to the hospital for what would become his final stay, he was asked to fill in his religious preference on the admission form . Being Woody, he wrote "All."

The nurse advised him that he had to choose one particular faith, to which he replied, "All or none; take your choice."

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: saulgoldie
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:24 AM

Went from "Respect and civility" to a discussion of religion. I accept that GS likes to sign off a certain way. But he has heard from many people who approve or are neutral, and some who have explained in clear terms that they are deeply offended by that action. It now goes back to him to RESPECT the wishes of those who do not take it in the spirit he intends it and refrain from signing off to them in that way, thereby showing his CIVILITY.

It matters not how he signs off or what his intentions are. It is that simple. Otherwise: "May a flock of geese make a deposit on your red convertible when the top is down." or maybe "I hope you find much congress at the coven meeting." "Respect and civility" is a two way street or it is not at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Bagpuss
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:40 AM

Jerry, what have you got against the Church of Whatever? What have we ever done to offend you?

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Big Mick
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:40 AM

Saul, you are way off the mark here. No one is required by any rule of civility to change how they sign off unless they are doing something that is clearly intended to offend. In other words, if one signed off anti-semitic, racist, or openly hostile comments, that would clearly be intended to offend all people of conscience. "Be Blessed" could hardly be considered offensive in any terms, and those that take umbrage to it are likely folks that are so strident in their beliefs that they would take umbrage at any reference that wasn't strictly in line with their views.

Watching for intent is good sauce here. It seems clear that the intent of GS is to wish well to all. And the phrase used is very neutral. I would probably be offended if s/he knuckled under to this.

Statements made to reflect one's beliefs, that are not done in an intentionally offensive way, are not only within the bounds of civility, but are the ultimate expressions of civility. While I am not a Jew, or a Moslem, I would take a blessing from these or any group, in the spirit with which it was intended.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:49 AM

I would take whatever blessings I might be offered. Any positive thoughts are welcome. Mick's "all the best" is as much a wish for my welfare as "be blessed"- and I apreciate the intent behind both of them.


8-{E

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: el ted
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 11:22 AM

Hi there, nothing of import to add to what is a heavy and depressing thread.I just thought a bit of red lettering would liven things up a bit

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:41 PM

Stop it Ted, you naughty naughty person! (ROTFL)

Big Mick - at last, someone with more than one gram of common sense! You are absolutely, 100% correct. It's sad that these moaners have nothing better on which to vent their miserable spleens.

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: el ted
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:44 PM

I can do it in a different colour if you like johnny

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:55 PM

Let me ask you all this one question:

Is this the hill you want to die on?

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 01:07 PM

Right on, Big Mick. Yours is the voice of common sense speaking.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 08:20 PM

Good point, Mick--and even more to the point, KimC-- "Be Blessed" is an odd place to draw the line in the sand--

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: jimmyt
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:05 PM

Georgian Silver, I have read this entire thread trying to get the real gist of your original premise, ie respect and civility. Then I went back to your original post. I have read ad nauseum threads where you and Martin Gibson were flailing away at one another for no apparent reason. At each post, you say, Be Blessed.   

I will have to tell you that in my opinion,if you are sincere and really mean that you would like to treat and be treated with respect and civility, you would be wise to consider that your sign off seems to be offensive and self promoting to many people. If you continue to do this after they have mentioned it, it seems rude and inconsiderate. Religion completely out of the formula. This is my opinion. I sincerely hope that you consider this objectively and not in the manner of religiosity that some would use to circumvent the issue.

There are many Christians in this website that are respected for their opinions, as well as Jews, Pagans and a wide diversity of other persuasions. Most of them have managed to co-exist here without ruffling any feathers. They do this by avoiding things that others find to be offensive. Again, you seem to be a fine fellow, and those who know you sing your praises highly. I hope you are not ofended by my post, as it is intended to be my take on this, not a personal affront.   jimmyt

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:52 PM

Good post, jimmy. If some people tell you that they find something you repeatedly say offensive, then it seeems like the civil thing to do is to find another positive way to express yourself. Saying, that you shouldn't be offended is kinda missing the point. Like when someone does something to hurt you and you say it's their fault for being too sensitive.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. And a mudcat.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:55 PM

And Georgian: With all due respect, is there a reason why you are so adamant about ending every post with "Be Blessed?" What's the point, if you are offending some people? There are other ways to sign off.

I guess I shouldn't be critical though.

I always sign off

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 10:20 PM

Yeah Georginsilver. How about something like, "bye now."

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Blackcatter
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 11:37 PM

Children:
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night
Marta:
I hate to go and leave this pretty sight

Children:
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, adieu
Friedrich:
Adieu, adieu, to yieu and yieu and yieu

Children:
So long, farewell, au revoir, auf wiedersehen
Liesl:
I'd like to stay and taste my first champagne

Children:
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye
Kurt:
I leave and heave a sigh and say goodbye -- Goodbye!
Brigitta:
I'm glad to go, I cannot tell a lie
Louisa:
I flit, I float, I fleetly flee, I fly
Gretl:
The sun has gone to bed and so must I

Children:
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye

Guests:
Goodbye

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:37 AM

O.K. I have not gone out of my way to offend people on here but seem to offend some, as do many others(some of whom intend to). I bow to those of you who are unhappy with my sign off and humbly withdraw it. It seems sad to me that I have to, because it was a sincere wish for good to all of you...however, if it is not in keeping then consider it closed as far as the Cat is concerned
Best wishes,

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 04:48 AM

Incidentally. jimmyt and others latterly on this thread...It was a pleasure to be asked in a manner which in itself respects and is civil.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: el ted
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 05:11 AM

CHEER UP FOR GOD'S SAKE! MAYBE A POST IN ORANGE WOULD HELP?
BE BLESSED.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 05:52 AM

I find it difficult to see why anyone would be offended at Georgiansilver's (now former) sign-off. If you believe in blessings you might well be gratified; if not, then at worst it is surely only useless and not malign?

wr.

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: jacqui.c
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:42 AM

wr - I agree

GS - Be Blessed

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: GUEST,Oh yeah,Like I want 2225 Pm's about this
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:49 AM

Congratulations Mudcatters

On having sucessfully censored GS.Once again the right to free speech in an open forum prevails.Well,atleast for the likes of Martin Gibson.You folks should be proud.
Who can we shout down next fellow brownshirts?

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: jimmyt
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:56 AM

By the way, GS, I am personally not offended so you may offer your blessings to me if you wish, as I do you, albiet silently. I am sure lots of people would feel likewise.

Lets see, you could get a catalog of the blessers and the non blessers, or have someone write a program to automatically default.........a blessing default.......yeah, I think you can make a million on this if you work it just right, and get Bill Gates involved. grin

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:05 AM

I have just one thing to say to every last one of you who finds himself in a state of mental discomfort when reminded of his own inner traumas, prejudices, and other sore points bubbling up from the subconscious...and decides, thereupon, that someone ELSE is to blame for it and must be controlled accordingly:

BE BLESSED!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Respect and civility
From: el ted
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 09:30 AM

If a muslim came on here and offered you all a fraternal greeting, "peace be upon you" or whatever, I'd be you would all keep stum wouldn't you? That'll teach him to be a christian!