B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!

Subject: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: Peter T.
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:29 PM

It appears that after NATO's most recent exercises off the Canary Island, dead whales have been rolling ashore. The last one of these, in 2000, led to a spate of dead whales. Naval sonar seems to be the problem. Or NATO has run out of human enemies in the North Atlantic....

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 12:58 PM

I blame Gareth.
Giok

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 06:17 PM

so how many fat women did they kill?

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:46 PM

well, despite the inane responses, this IS a serious problem. New high-powered sonar is totally disrupting the lives of many whales & dolphins. I expect that for entities for whom sound is their major form of communication and navigation, it is like an overdose of LSD coupled with unimaginable pain and confusion.

I doubt that the Navy has THAT much need for more technology...

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 07:48 PM

it's just another ploy from halliburton to get it's oil.

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: open mike
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:31 PM

yes there have been problems in Puget sound area too,
when sonar exercises were disrupting the patterns and
even the lives of marine mammals.

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 27 Jul 04 - 09:40 PM

Sonar transmissions are very powerfull. In submarines whenever we used to put divers in the water for hull inspections our sonar systems were tagged out of use to prevent the divers being injured. However it is unusual for submarines to operate in an active mode i.e. sending out sound pulses, 99% of the time they operated in passive mode using the sonar arrays on the bow, sides and stern as rather large ears. Surface warships usually use active sonar as do helicopters fitted with dunking sonar to detect submarines.

If no submarines are suspected in an area then they to will reduce speed and lower their hull outfits to just listen so that their presence might not be detected.

During naval exercises surface ships often drop small explosive charges (about 1 kg)to signal to a nearby submarine that they have been detected. The dropping of full size torpedoes and depth charges is obviously detrimental to the health of the submariners.

Oil exploration vessels also used sonic charges to examine the structure of the sea bed and what is below.

I do not think that NATO is picking on these creatures, from my own experience we used to love hearing the sound of dolphins and whales in particular when we heard them on our sonar and when surfaced to see them playing alongside gave most of us a big thrill.

The beaching of whales and dolphins is sadly a rather more commonly reported phenomena these days and in my own opinion is due to not just naval operations. Many merchant ships use depth sounders which is an active sonar plus they have powerfull engines and often ditch waste overboard without any thought.

The level of noise pollution under the sea has grown greatly over the years especially with the advent of powered marine propulsion as has 'general pollution', I have read in various sources that marine biologists have been concerned for many years that the high levels of noise and general pollution have affected the ability of whales and dolphins to communicate and navigate.

But for anyone who has been at sea on a ship it is also common to see dolphins in particular surfing along side the ship, far from being afraid they appear to enjoy the encounter.

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:09 AM

Sorry, I thought it said Wales.
eric

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: Billy the Bus
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 06:35 AM

Don't worry - the whales are getting their revenge - our NZ wireless has just given a report about a killer whale making an attack on it's trainer in a Marine Park in the USA....

To keep on this thread - since Cetacians invented sonar, methinks we should give them priority in the choice of frequency and volume for use of said technolgy. Yup, I'm sure human induced 'noise' stuffs them up in more ways tah one.

Mass beachings seem to be the Cet's own problem - misreading of echos from crescent-shaped sandy beaches, with rocky ends. We've had a few pods of pilot whales ground on Stewart Island in rcent years - 300 was the max (they got a tad smelly). Methinks we can't blame NATO exercises for that lot - well I hope not.

Cheers - Sam

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: el ted
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 08:51 AM

My dad used to bomb North Wales when he was in the RAF. Nothing personal like, they were just practising.

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 10:01 AM

A pretty good article on the latest findings at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3916249.stm

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: skarpi
Date: 28 Jul 04 - 07:29 PM

Halló all , I am just gonna sing " I am the last of the great wales "
What a great song.

All the best from the once upon time whale fishing country Iceland,
from skarpi.

Subject: RE: B.S.: Nato's new enemies: whales!
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 12:20 PM

Clicky for Peter's link