singaround/session definitions?

Subject: singaround/session definitions?
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:23 PM

No doubt this will seem a rather banal post, but I was wondering if someone could define exactly what a 'sing around' and a 'session' entails, as opposed to - say - a simple open mic?

Thanks

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:42 PM

I will try dude. A Sing a Round is when people come together in a pub or a function room and go round the room in some kind of order, playing tunes or singing songs, the choice is up to the person whose turn it is, and people can join in. Like at The Bull in Barton Beds. A session is where everyone plays together English, Irish, or Scots etc folk tunes, not many if any songs. An open mic night is like a folk club where people sit in a room and go up to the front of the room, infront of people and play. If you are near Dunstable on Fri Sept 03 at 8.30pm and or Sat Sept 04 12.00-06.00 pm come to The White Horse Finbars in the High st North for more examples.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:45 PM

No mic for a start! In the UK, at least, singers (and sometimes solo instrumentalists) take turns to perform a song usually from where they stand or sit. A session *usually* refers to instrumentalists playing en masse but this may include one or two solo singers (who may or may not expect accompaniment). Sometimes a session will be a song session when it's more of a free for all then singarounds but more chorus songs are expected.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:47 PM

As I understand the terms , a 'Session' is people getting together to play tunes together ,a 'Singaround' is when a group of people meet and take turms , usually round the room , to sing or play , with the others joining in if they wish , and an 'open mic' is where people do a short set from the 'stage' area ,

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:51 PM

As I thought... thankyou!

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Marje
Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:51 PM

Replies may vary according to the side of the Pond they come from.

In the UK, Open Mic implies a microphone and PA system, and involves the performer going up to the front of the room, possibly on to a stage of some sort, to perform. There may be an MC or someone deciding who performs and for how long. For some reason most of these acts will be solo men with guitars, but that's just my observation, not a rule.

A singaround (I think "song circle" in the US is similar), by contrast,usually means that people sit in a something-like-circular arrangement, perhaps informally at tables, and each person sings in turn, around the room (or not, if they just want to listen). So a singaround is generally less formal and more inclusive, with all the good and bad that this entails. Many singarounds are mostly or entirely unaccompanied.

A session is less formal still, and may be only instrumental, or a mix of tunes and songs. It's often in a public bar with a lot of background noise. In most sessions there are no real rules about who starts a tune or song - you just wait for a suitable opportunity and go for it. People generally join in if they know the tune, or sometimes even if they don't. There isn't usually a PA system, and the guy who brings his own and drowns everyone out is not popular.

There has been lots of discussion in previous threads about the varying expectations and etiquettes of these gatherings, but that's a brief explanation of the main differences as I understand them. I'm sure others will add to this.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 02:37 AM

Marje - just to expand on you post :-)

Market Rasen Folk Club (UK) is an "Open Mic" without a microphone and PA system, however the artists are varied. See website http://www.marketrasenfolkclub.co.uk

Tonight (13th August) the mix is as follows
Lucy Wright & Paul Young - Female singer & Male guitarist
Gwenda & Terry Cater - Female singer/guitarist & Male guitarist
Lesley Curtis - Female singer/guitarist
Chris Wright - Male singer/guitarist (Blues)
Steve newton - Male singer/guitarist (Blues)
Ian Enright - Male singer/guitarist

The last meeting just to pick out a couple of examples, there was
DACAPO 8 piece Female/Male folk group
Rosie & Lucy Coggle Female Fiddle & Female Cello + Bodhran
Jane Kitchen & Ernie Geddes Female singer & guitarist and Male guitarist

August the 27th
Bob Fox - Male singer/guitarist
DACAPO - 8 piece Female/Male folk group
Stitherum - Female singer & Male guitarist
John Blanks - Male singer/guitarist

September the 10th just a couple of examples
Mike and Jackie - Male singer/guitarist & Female Singer
Liam Robinson & Thomas Fairburn - Male Accordianist & Male Fiddle player

So I think your observation of "solo men with guitars" is not quite accurate as far as this club goes. It is mixed and varied music with young artists playing as well e.g. Lucy wright & Paul Young, Rosie and Lucie Coggle and Liam Robinson & Thomas Fairburn just to mention a few.

"There may be an MC or someone deciding who performs and for how long"

That is correct as far as this club goes. Artists are pre-booked, so somebody arriving on the night without a booking is unlikely to play - however as was the case last time, an artist arrived out of the blue and I managed to fit him in.

Maybe MRFC is the exception - I don't know - maybe some of the other clubs may like to say how they run their club and which group it falls into.

Incidentally we get good audiences (including the artists playing) - last time was over 60 people.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: the fence
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 03:32 AM

Here at Louth in Lincolnshire, we have an "open mike" without the mike. If however there are not so many people turn up then it turns into a singaround. The room is fairly small so it works quite well, and being able to close a door to the rest of the pub "Ye Olde Whyte Swanne", also makes it less distracting for the performer.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Sooz
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 03:34 AM

And a good quality of abuse Mr Fence!

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: the fence
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 03:37 AM

Not sure how you mean Mrs Sooz

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 05:46 AM

The good humoured banter M8 - I think thats what mrs Sooze means :-)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Marje
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 12:46 PM

About Market Rasen - it describes itself as a folk club, and sounds from your description, Villan, a lot like a folk club. This particular species of gathering wasn't the subject of the question or the answer, so maybe that's why it doesn't quite fit with my description of an Open Mic. You may call it an "Open Mic", but it sounds as if you run it more like a folk club, with a fair amount of organisation, and booked (paid?) guests sometimes. If unbooked, impromptu acts can't get a spot, I'd say it was more of a Closed Mic.

When we're talking about a folk club, there's generally a lot more variety of performers than if it's just a case of unbooked singers turning up on the night and doing their stuff - which is where all the men with guitars come in. Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against men, or indeed guitars (I have one of each myself!), I just find that Open Mics tend to be a bit lacking in variety.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 07:34 PM

I get your point. It is indeed a folk club with lots of variety.
Tonight was once again another night of extremely good music. Such quality and enthusiasm. It makes the hard work to put it together all worth it.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 11:25 PM

The thing is, people start these music events out of whatever vision they have for them, based usually on whatever they have experienced themselves that someone else had started and however it evolved. So the events are going to tend to vary, no matter what they are called. If you have a general idea what a thing is, but then try to impose rules and expectations based on how YOU understand the thing is "supposed" to go, there can be hell to pay. So general guidelines are helpful but just seeing how a thing works for yourself, and asking a few questions, is probably going to be just as accurate if not more so.

~S~

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:18 AM

Marje, my experience is that 'Singarounds' and 'Sessions' are far from exclusive - there are usually tune-players at singarounds and singers at sessions, and they're always welcomed (at least in my patch, Lincs/Notts/S. Yorks). I think the terms 'Singaround' and 'Session' tend to describe the general purpose for the evening but, as with most things, a bit of variation improves pleasure! :0)

You're quite right, Market Rasen is indeed a folk club as distinct from an Open Mic, and is run by Villan in a very professional manner on alternate Fridays. The standard of performers there is generally quite high, but less-experienced artists are welcomed (how else would they become experienced??). It's recently moved to an excellent new venue at Walesby, Lincs., and is well worth a visit.

Gainsborough FC is a singaround in a private room in a pub (The Drovers' Call), on Fridays alternating with Market Rasen, where all are welcome to perform or listen in a very friendly, smoke free atmosphere. Banter and personal abuse, though not compulsory, are welcomed and encouraged! :0)

Why not try them? (And bring yer mates!)

SJ :0)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 04:22 AM

Has a post of mine been edited here, and if so by whom and why, or did it simply go to the bit bucket after leaving my computer?

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 01:56 PM

Bottom line is, if you want to listen to others (and perhaps do a toon or a song) then go to a folk club. If you want to take part, following others who are singing or playing, and doing your own songs/toons, go to a session. The latter always for me, I don't do spectator very well, I want to be plunking and hollering along with the others.
Above all, a good session (such as the Six Bells in Barrow, North Lincs) welcomes all abilities. It is really hard when starting to play an instrument or sing to get practice with others. Listening to music on a CD etc is OK, but there is no substitute for a session with live musicians, many of whom are happy to pass on tips & help newbies. To my mind a session is where the Folk Tradition is kept alive and handed on in its most practical and enjoyable form, with people listening to and learning from others playing and singing live.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 02:19 PM

Well said that Bloke. To my mind the best kind of sessions include singing and playing, such as the excellent session you mentioned. But newcomers should be aware of singarounds where tunes are not welcomed or singarounds that don't want any songs. To my mind the best sessions are when instrument players who sing get together with singers who play instruments. Not to say that there shouldn't be also room for unaccompanied singing, monologues, stories, jokes, a rapper side...

Perhaps we might see you tomorrow afternoon (2.30pm onwards) in the Black Boy, High Street, Hull?

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Marje
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 11:28 AM

The various sessions in Hull, Gainsborough etc sound great but I've just moved to Devon... :-(

Devon is fab, but I was well into the folk scene in Sussex and have to start all over again now. August is a bit of an odd time, as so many people are on holiday or at festivals, and clubs and sessions don't always run as normal.I think September will be a better time to get involved, although I've already found out quite a bit about the Devon folk scene and made some useful contacts. At times like this, I wonder how we'd manage without the Internet, which makes it all so much easier.

I suppose one good thing about going to a new area is that you can do all your favourite party-pieces that everyone in your old area was sick of hearing. And learn some new stuff, of course.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 02:36 PM

"...singarounds that don't want any songs."

That's an interesting concept, Les from Hull.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 02:48 PM

Marje.....Please try http://www.users.waitrose.com/~cresby/index.htm for Folk music in Devon. Whereabouts in Devon are you?. Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 03:12 PM

Hi Marje

try this site aswell....I'm from Devon too

http://pennymoor.members.beeb.net/page5.html

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Marje
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:01 PM

Many thanks, both. I'm building up quite a store of useful information now, and also feel greatly cheered after attending a friendly session in Brixham the other night. I'm in Stoke Gabriel, near Totnes, so I have to get used to driving in these narrow single-track lanes, but I'm getting the hang of it. The Harberton Folk and Flaxey Green websites are very useful for this area too.
Thanks again for the info.
Marje

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 01:15 AM

This is a long-overdue response, but it's been bugging me for days and days since I first noticed it and immediately had a question. Regarding The Villan's post of 13 Aug 04 - 02:37 AM about the open mic at Market Rasen, seventh message on this thread:

How can it be an "open mic" if you know all the scheduled performers beforehand? What's "open* about it?

In my experience (in the US, which of course might well be quite different from what goes on there in the UK), if the mike is "open," aspiring performers can show up on the evening of the show and be granted access to the stage/microphone/front-of-room/whatever.

Of course, those who wish to perform are expected to arrive early in the evening, to allow the MC/organizer a chance to set up some kind of ad hoc schedule. But if the schedule is already "etched in stone" before the evening begins, it's not what I recognize as an "open mic/mike" night.

I suppose that this is only a question of semantics, but then again, this whole thread is nothiing more than semantics, stemming from a request for definitions of a couple of common terms.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:52 AM

You're right Poppagator, but a bit late - Marje drew Villan's attention to his error way back on 13th August, and he immediately and graciously acknowledged his slip! Why drag it up again? :0)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 03:57 AM

PoppaGator
That was a mistake on my part. I am new into the folk world, and have never run anything like this before, so I went for what appeared to be the nearest item mentioned in the first post.
Of course it is not "open mic".
This thread has been very good for me, in understanding what all you other folkies call various events.
I have assumed that you are not having a swipe at me for the way I run my club, but more to clarify the type of club :-)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Carol
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 04:48 AM

Market Rasen Folk Club may be a very lively club but it is a folk club not a singaround or a session - it sounds as though all the 'spots' are pre-booked and so anyone turning up as a 'floor singer' wouldn't be offered the chance to sing. As an unaccompaned and perhaps worse female singer I have often thought about going to a folk club carrying an empty guitar case.

Sessions are OK for me if you have a mix of music and song but this doesn't happen at many sessions, most of them the muscians 'take over' and it's very difficult as a singer to get a look in!!

Singarounds can be formal or not I think it depends on the room and the number of people as to how they should be run or left to run themselves.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Sooz
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:05 AM

Carol, we had sixteen performers turn up again at Gainsborough last night for the singaround. It needed to have some formality to fit everyone in!
I heartily agree with you about sessions and the difficulty of trying to get a song in. Too stressful!
See you at Denaby next month.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:13 AM

I quite like the idea of a session where you have access to a microphone but phone up in advance and book yourself without the need for an audition. There's one starting up in Sidmouth soon.

I find with the truly open mic nights I've been too (which may not be representative), often the guys with the loud voices and guitars take over and any one slightly mild mannered (or female and unaccompanied - yes me too Carol) feels unable to have a go. You don't feel you want to change the tempo of the night. Mind you, I've got better at just standing up and barging my way in. Why let THEM have all the fun?!!

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Ross
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:47 AM

In Barton-Le-Clay it's called a calamity

or a Bedfordshireshire dodgy night out

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:52 AM

Carol
You sound as though you are knocking me.

Firstly, I put a lot of time and effort into running this club all for nowt. I have decided how I want this club to run, and one good factor is that I have, is that I don't sing or play, so I look at each performer as a listener and not as a musician.

I could of course stop running the club and then who loses out then.

It gets up my goat when artists moan about the way a club is run. There are many people who moan, but are not prepared to run a club themselves.

There needs to be a variety of clubs, and then you as an artist decide which style you like, and frequent that club(s). You should not be criticising something you don't like - just acknowledge that it isn't your style.

Nobody has managed to set up a Folk Club before in Market Rasen, so I consider that an achievement.

In the six months that it has been running, many local artists have performed at the club, and turned out some smashing nights. I consider it as a team effort from the artists and the people who put the effort in to make the club run. Without either the club doesn't run.

If you are able to deliver a decent performance for 20 minutes without pieces of paper flowing everywhere, in front of an audience, then you will be very welcome to play.

If you are not knocking the way I run the club, then please accept my sincere apologies.

Anybody else who wants to knock by all means, but you eventually are the losers because if people like me decide to give up running a club, you don't have anywhere to play.

There that has got that off my chest.

Now can we all move forward and support each other for the benefit of all folk musicians and lets not forget the audiences. :-)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: the fence
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 06:33 PM

"Horses for Courses" as they say! I enjoy going to both the Gainsborough and Market Rasen folk clubs. I attend the Louth folk club and although they are all run quite differently, the atmosphere is exactly the same, friendly. And the enjoyment comes from listening as well as performing. And more power to your elbow Villan.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:15 AM

Many thanks there Fence
I have just re-read my post, and wish I could re-phrase it. It sounds like I am flaming, when in actual fact, I was trying to put my point of view. So apologies for getting on my high horse and Carol, I hope I haven't offended you :-)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:54 AM

I don't think Carol was attacking you personally Villan, just expressing her frustration at how it can be difficult to get heard in some clubs.

Carol, Market Rasen Club is indeed run like a well-oiled military machine (LOL), but Villan always builds in a little slack for precisely the circumstances you've described - and I'm sure anyone who'd travelled a distance would get on the bill 'on spec' as it were. Some real gems get discovered that way, don't they Villan? Like the superb Simon Johnson f'rinstance!

SJ :0)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 04:58 AM

They do indeed Strollin' :-) Attention!!!!!!! LOL

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 01:37 AM

Sorry, there, Strollin' -- I somehow missed (or distractedly skimmed through) Marje's earlier message making the exact same point I repeated a week later. If I was the cause of further contention and misunderstanding, I apologize.

If Villan and his Folk Club set up their schedule ahead of time, so be it -- I certainly have no reason to criticize them. I was just concerned with the meaning of "open mike."

We can all be friends now, right? ;^)

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:48 AM

No problem Poppagator, I hadn't fallen out with you or Carol :-).

This is a very good thread, and shows there is room for everyone depending on what they prefer.

Defining the different types of Folk Sessions has been really helpful for me. I admit to lacking knowledge about the folk scene, and am trying very hard to learn quickly as I go along.

I just believe that we shoudn't criticise the different styles - we should support them. That doesn't mean having to go to the styles we don't like.

We should all in our own little way help to keep the Folk Scene strong and something people want to go to.

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:51 AM

Well said Block.
Hello Les!

Subject: RE: singaround/session definitions?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 03:58 AM

Hi John :-)

Les