Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?

Subject: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Aug 04 - 06:52 PM

What is the minimun and maximum number of people you try to put onstage when your "band" plays-- and how do you differentiate between core member/decision makers, and side player/followers?

What do you look for in good side players? (Yeah I know they gotta be able to play-- I mean band cemistry stuff.)

Do you deploy people differently depending on the kind/size of gig?

If you add side players do they also contribute some material to the set list (and presumably sing lead), or does it all follow your current season's performance plan?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 12:42 AM

Gee Susan, a band is a band, anyone else is a guest artist. It is too hard to pln on playing different size bands for different size venues. When you hire my band you get the five of us. It does you no good to say to a venue "You are too small for the Pennsylvania Pickers, but we can send just the banjo player and the guitarist for half price." next thing you know half the band is working all the time and the rest of the team is mad at you.

Decide how many are in your band and that is how many take the stage.

Don

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 01:09 AM

Well, we are a Non Profit Club......chapter of the Wyoming Old Time Fiddlers Association....total could be as many as 18 musicians but when you 'hire' us, you will never be sure how many will actually show up. We won't take a gig unless there is at least! 1 fiddle, one guitar, 1 mando, and hopefully 1 banjo. IF you get us all there will be....3 guitars, 2 mando, 2 fiddles (very occasionally 3), 2 banjos, 1 whistle, 1 bodhran, 1 dobro,and very sometimes a piano accordian....sometimes a few more....BUT, we are NOT a 'band'....

Years ago I was with another Wyo. Old Time Fiddlers group that had a 'Band' Section....I was not aware of this and showed up for something that the Band had booked.....was told 'This is a BAND gig and you are NOT welcome...' Needless to say, I never went back.

I think you need to be VERY specific in your requirements, and make them VERY public....too many banjos is definitely detrimental to the sound. I like banjos, but they can too easily walk on everybody else, esp the mandos.

If you are after a 'band' I think that 5 or 6 should be enough, if they are all confident enough not to need a co player....guitar, banjo, fiddle, mando ,bass and/or rhythm....somebody needs to be a vocalist too. Or, Several Sombodies.....You could get by with just 4 if you have to, esp if you have a Multi Instrumentalist in the gang.

Just be careful about hurting the rest of the Jam Bunch's feelings....Oh, this is a Band Gig, not a Bunch gig....make it plain, and explain why.....

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: open mike
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 01:10 AM

does this mean you are forming a band?!
hooray!
i just happened to get a gig and asked
a couple of friends to join, now we
have a trio!! first gig was last weekend,
and they want us back! and want to pay
us double!@
we quickly put together a list of an hour
long set...with equal submissions from each.
We have a fiddle/mando player, and two
guitar/vocalists. this is exciting and
fun and a good opportunity to practice
and work out some songs and tunes.
good luck to you !!
We got other folks who offered to join on
other instruments...bass and dobro.
The thing about more band members is if there is
any money involved, each gets less...
i guess it is important to decide on a price
and stick to it!
our folk society often hosts house concerts
and performances in coffee houses and other
venues. We often hope to gather in 3-400
dollars from ticket sales...what is the going
rate for bands in your area? Don't want to
undercut other bands, but don't want to ask
too much either....

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 07:16 AM

There is an Irish Band in UK called (would you believe) The O'Reely's.
Basically they are a duo , but every now and then they will be told that a venue would like to book them but is looking for a trio or quartet ratherthan a duo . Here is where I come in on whistle and sometimes another mate on Bodhran . We have done 5 piece O'Reely gigs in the past as well.

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 10:11 AM

Thanks everyone, for what you have shared and, in advance, to what I hope others will share.

I'm not going to say much about our own situation-- it's unique and what I really want to hear about it y'all's experiences so I can compare our situation to what's more usual. Not looking for advice-- we'll have meetings here to consider some of this-- just YOUR experiences.

Thanks,

~Susan

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 01:49 PM

I play in a 4 piece band...

Occasionally, if one guy can't make it we play as a three piece...

We never bring more than 4...

4 competant players should be able to fill ANY venue!

The Police were a 3 piece... U2 is a 3 piece... Rush is 4... The Rolling Stones are 4... AC/DC is 3...

Who needs more?

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 03:20 PM

Three piece is classic; most of my favourite groups or artists performed as a 3 piece.

I play most these days as half of a duet (both on vocals, trading leads and adding harmony, both switching off on several instruments) that has often been described as sounding like more than 2 guys, but I would dearly love to add a 3rd to the group (on bass/percussion, maybe keyboards/accordion and 2nd harmony vocal/3rd alternate lead vocal).

Trouble is, the more people you add to the group, the less the individual shares of pay & tips at the end of the night. But expenses are split more as well.

Yes, every member of the band should be expected to contribute to the setlist as well, ideally. It's more fun that way and everybody carries their load.

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: GUEST,BFG
Date: 14 Aug 04 - 09:12 PM

There's a band plays around East Kent called The Phatt-B'Stards

Normally a duo (Juan & Fredo) occasionally a trio (with Finn) and rarely as a quartet (with Phläm)

They are four half-brothers from Barcelona, NAples, Helsinki and Brussels - Fascinating story behind them - www.phatts.co.uk

Cheers
BFG

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: C-flat
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 03:46 AM

I used to play in a 5-piece blues band that had a tag-on horn section of anything up to 5 extras, depending on the gig. I loved playing as a nine or ten piece band, we had a massive sound and nobody was having to work too hard.
As Clinton rightly says, 4 is enough, but the added dynamics that a BIG band can create is something else.
Our brass section was drawn from a local jazz/swing band which numbered about 20 and some nights we never knew who was going to turn up, but these old guys (most were of retirement age) were all good with the dots and we would just dish out the parts to whoever turned up.
The downside to all this came when it was time to split the fee, but I remember on one occassion having a very well known tenor sax player (Mick Donnelly) turn up to dep' for our regular player, who was ill. I explained to Mick that by the time we made the split there really wasn't going to be much money in it,
"That's OK" said Mick "I was supposed to be playing in Germany with M-People tonight, but it cancelled, and I fancied having a blow!"
I think he got somewhere in the region of £10 and a couple of pints for his efforts (we did throw him lots of solos!) and the next time I saw him he was off to Brussells with Snake Davis to join up with Elton Johns' band.
I think Elton paid more.
Happy days

C-flat.

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 09:09 AM

These days Margaret, Kate, and I are the core band. Once in awhile soneone still requests a duo gig with Margaret and I and we do those. Kate and I have done a couple gigs as a duo when Margaret couldn't make it. We occasionally have people come as side persons (an electric bass player for some gigs where we can afford to pay him well). I'm hesitant to add more folks with veto power, so the basic three piece is it most of the time. Any time we have a quest playing with us, we do give them feature spots. But mostly, we enjoy the augmented sound on the special gigs.

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 09:57 AM

Thanks, all. Hope to hear more.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 09:00 AM

Our official band is 5 members, but whenever Frank & I perform, it's "ShoreGrass." They call us ShoreGrass anyway, no matter how many times we say it's not really the ShoreGrass band! Sometimes we enlist other people to join in church or for occasional benefits and last minute things. Always called ShoreGrass as long as Frank and I (core members, I guess) are there. Sometimes we laughingly call the reduced formation "Short Grass."

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Gypsy
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 09:59 PM

We are a trio, with occasional guests. We guest in other, large groups, and find them to be cumbersome........too much talk, not enough communication, etc. And particularly in performing, eye contact is alot easier with THREE people, than say, twelve. We do have a semi regular guitar substitute, if our third member is unavailable.........he's in other groups, and is happy to fill in when needed.The trio makes all decisions as pertains to playlist, guests, $$$ venues, etc.

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Aug 04 - 11:21 PM

If anybody around the Brisbane Qld Area (Aust) is a multi-instrumentalist (at least currently 2 instruments but willing to pick up more!) please let me know. Singing would be useful too...

Robin

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: alison
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 01:08 AM

hi robin, pity it wasn't sydney..... I play about 8

anyway... I play in several bands... many of which are duos... but with interchangeable extra players... because a lot of venues don't think you're a "proper" band unless you have a certain number of players.... many pubs like 4... I'm doing one very shortly on a big open air stage... the organizers like to fill the stage so they want us to be a 5 piece!!... its very handy having friends on different nstruments who know your material... most are very happy to help out and earn some money.... various combinations


slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: mooman
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 03:45 AM

Our (myself and Lady McMoo) "core" band is a four piece and the three instrument players are all multi-instrumentalist which makes things quite flexible.. However I sometimes perform with Patricia as a duo for a certain, more blues-orientated repertoire and sometimes as a trio with our bassist. We have sometimes been up to six with a drummer and an additional lead guitarist. Target is five but we have not yet been able to find the right "light touch" drummer.

The quite separate Irish occasional band I play with (with Mudcatter An Pluiméir Ceolmhar)is a moveable feast with two to six of us depending on the venue and availability of musicians.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: GUEST,Elfcall
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 04:02 AM

Clintonhammond - just for the record U2 has 4 members and AC/DC at least 4 (and I think 5).

Elfcall

Subject: RE: Band Membership-- Core Plus Others?
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Aug 04 - 10:37 AM

I prefer but rarely have a trio. The two duos I have sometimes combine as a trio but only for one-offs. The larger group, 7 including 3 singers, still has a core of 3 without whom the others wouldn't play.

But to answer the question, it is best to have the core group as a definite and agreed permanent number of players, all additions to be agreed and temporary guest appearances unless mutually decided otherwise. Otherwise arrangements fall apart, players trip all over each other musically and literally, and decision making gets confused.

Guests should behave/perform according to the group's direction with consideration for the intent of having a guest to begin with. I've played with a few who treated us as their backup band, and shoddily at that. Best to avoid that misadventure.

Certain guests I like, some I don't, all provide some kind of education in live performance.

Peace, Mooh.