Booking woes

Subject: BS: Booking woes
From: jimmyt
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 12:47 PM

This has probably been discussed here before, but I could just scream at some people's lack of consideration for musicians.   We were tentatively scheduled to play at a festival which would have given us good exposure, but little or no pay, which we were fine with. The guy from the organization telephoned 2 weeks ago and told me he had taken another job and he had delegated this to another lady to set our time and venue spot, etc. I have phoned her 4 times, left voice mail, Emailed, etc to no avail. A few minutes ago I phoned her, and was told that she was in a meeting. I left a final voice mail message and told her that I needed to speak with her before the day was over. She just called, and offhandedly said she was sorry she dropped the ball, but the event was booked up, and besides, we have 4 members and her "cutoff" was three because of the logistics of the festival.

I am constantly surprised at the way people treat musicians and groups. I know I sound whiney and selfserving, but I would never treat anyone with the lack of consideration that I have seen several times when it comes to dealing with bookings. Invaribly, once a booking is made and we perform, there is always an effort to rebook us asap. Anyone have similar pain in the ass issues?

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:03 PM

Sorry to hear this Jimmy, still it's their loss.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:10 PM

Oh yes, I've posted about this, it's very upsetting. Even when one is proactive, as you were, in trying to nail down the details, it gets messed up all too often.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:13 PM

Oh ya... we are the low man on the totem pole... even at festivals and events that claim to be set up FOR music...

Buck up JT... something good will come along to blow away the stank of this bad experience!

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:20 PM

... and the worst part of things like this, is that if Jimmy had gotten the information in writing from the first person, the woman only would have needed to say, "Well, I'm looking after it now and unfortunately can't help you."

Sounds like you did all you could... I've run into the identical situation AND had it in writing, as above. I was fortunate though, was able to get a booking the same date that paid about 50% higher :-)

Best to ya!
Brian.

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 01:25 PM

In some festival situations, depending on the festival and who is running it, even below the musicians are the sound techs. Some festival organizers are wonderful people. And some really, really are not.   I had a pretty unpleasant experience with the head guy at a festival where I was volunteering as a sound tech. He treated the musicians and the paid participants very well, but everyone else was pond scum to him. I had a lot of good experiences with some of the other people at that festival, but I would never ever volunteer for a festival that is being run by that particular individual again.

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 02:21 PM

Jimmy - In my experience , the less you ask for and the more you agree to do the LESS they appreciate you . Even for the exposure , is
it worth being buggered about ? Put the fees UP !!

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: open mike
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 02:50 PM

many an artist has suffered from over exposure
I have been told that playing for free spoils
it for those who rely on payment...that it makes
people reluctant to re-imburse them fairly.

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 02:55 PM

Look on the bright side: at least you got it cleared up before you showed up at the event, ready to play.

Have you ever showed up at a venue for a non-paying gig (tips only plus the opportunity to sell CDs), and THEN found they had double-booked? It happened to some friends of mine. The venue manager thought it was no big deal. "Can't you just play one set each, instead of two sets?"

Subject: RE: BS: Booking woes
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Aug 04 - 03:21 PM

Get a SIGNED CONTRACT as soon as possible after booking anything.....

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: Peace
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:47 AM

There are four people I ever took a verbal agreement from in music. They are Chuck Baker, Mike Regenstreif, Bill Garrett and Paul Mills. I would take a verbal agreement from each of those individuals on damn near anything.

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:27 AM

Most of the shows I've played have all been verbal agreements. I can only think of a few that have required some kind of written application or contract. There are only a few times that I've been mistreated by folks booking events. It is a difficult job, I imagine, to organize events featuring hundreds of performers. I've tried my hand at booking just a few times at very small venues. It was a challenge and not one that I'd eagerly repeat.

Here's a good one. This has to rank right up there as one of the weirdest offers I've had to play at a festival.

Right out of the blue I was called by a festival last year that wanted to book me and a partner of mine to play a couple of rather unusual venues. I was flattered by the call at first, until I heard what the organizer had to offer for venues at this particular event. The stage slots were all filled for the event but they had two other gigs that they wanted to fill.

The first venue was a sort of roving gig that would require us to move from beer garden to beer garden on the evening before the actual event. While outwardly this idea didn't sound too difficult for someone who may play only a guitar, I usually have more than one instrument that I enjoy playing at any particular show. Unfortunately, this idea of carting around a pile of gear from one site to another didn't strike me as a particularly attractive work situation. I guess I could have just brought one or two instruments to this part of the gig. The down side of this was that the majority of folks about town that evening would be enjoying performers at any number of pre-scheduled indoor venues, (bars, etc.) and our performances would be unannounced, unamplified, and impromptu, not exactly the kind of focus as one might receive from an official stage show.

Then the second part of the gig went like this. On the day of the festival they wanted us to play at a service station (uh, you know, where folks stop to pump fuel into their cars) that was located about six blocks from the festival proper near the interstate freeway. I couldn't quite understand how playing at a service station could actually work. The organizer explained that we would be there to casually play music and direct folks that might stop for gas to make a detour from their intended course toward the event taking place. I guess like the cattlemen who herded little doggies down the Chisholm Trail to their intended destination back in the Old West, my partner and I were suppose to attempt to round up and corral SUVs full of vacationers like a couple of modern day cowpokes. Well, I had never heard of a gig at a service station before, and while I'm certain the experience could have been chock full of inspirational fodder that might have spawned many a tale and even a song or two, with tears in my eyes, I declined the invitation.

I think back on it now and wonder, did I make the right decision? The alluring smell of Octane and diesel fuel mixed with benzene and exhaust fumes filling the air, the hustle and bustle of the convenience store clientele choking down assorted fast foods before careening back down the onramp onward to their ultimate ends. It could have been a truly unique adventure and perhaps one that I'll never have another opportunity to experience again. Oh, should I have said yes? Hmmmm? No, I don't think so.

I had hoped that our promo might convince the organizer that we might have something more to offer besides that of a service station tour guide/singing billboard or a beer garden hopping gear schlepers, and that they might consider having us play an actual staged show for the following year's event (this year) but I never received a call back.

Hmmm, maybe it's time to revamp that promo material.

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:14 AM

Hey, dudes, it's not the venue that needs the contract, it's YOU! Spell it out, write it in stone, and get it signed....that way you have recourse if they pull something sneaky....you can still (hopefully) force them to pay you even if you don't play.....

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:21 AM

So how many members does this group 'Woes' have? And do do similar stuff to the 'Pogues'? ;-)

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 10:35 AM

Reggie Miles: I'd have done the service station gig. Sounds fun(a gas, even). We often do strange promotional guerrilla warfare type gigs, playing in a field to direct people to firework events etc. Once got hired to play acoustically to people arriving at a cattle auction. But I've never played at a service station, sounds interesting!

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:21 AM

Some festival booking people will offer you crap the first year where you can't do them much harm, to see if you are worth working with in a better way the next year. Worth it in terms not only of your product, but in terms of your reliability and ease of working relations. From their view, they have to kiss a lot of frogs before they find princes worth the lousy pay! :~)

There is some sense to going along with this early in the career, to build one's resume. But at a certain point, it that's all you're being offered, it's time to market yourself farther away where you can portray yourself as having graduated from all that, to being someone who "tours."

~S~

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 07:34 PM

Supposedly, if you've got a written contract, and your Musician's Union dues are paid up, the Union will pay you up front the money you'd have gotten from the gig. Then take the venue to court and get the money back from them. Supposedly.

Don't hold your breath on it though.

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 08:18 PM

Is the Musicians Union as good for back up in USA as it is in UK ??
In UK we get free legal help as well as Public Liability Insurance from both the M U and from Equity .

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 08:25 PM

years ago I was a union member when I was playing trumpet for club gigs back in the 60s. It was not very effective then. Now I am not nor are any of the folks I know.

This was just a gig that I got peeved about, not any thing that really makes that much difference in the big picture. In fact Now I can stop worrying about a sound system for outdoors! Thanks for the advice everyone. I will try to be a bit more on top of things, but in this case, I don't know how much more I could have done.

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 10:37 AM

I think it goes with the territory. Look how we've all looked at some big star from time to time and said, this bloke's rubbish.

Naturally there are some people who actually look upon us as a class of humanity -think similar thoughts and act upon them.

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: open mike
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 11:05 AM

i think htere is a union which is formed, mainly for the touring musician..LOcal 1000 ....John McCutcheon has been pres. one of
the things it tries to do is help ill or injured musicians who
are not able to work/play due to health problems. I am not aware
of musicians' unions, and do not believe i have ever known any
one who is in on. Maybe symphony/orchestra musicians. Perhaps
more can be learned here: http://www.local1000.com/
i do not know how most people i know could join...we make
a few bucks-10-100 when we play, and not enough for uniion
dues, but maybe the union would insist on better pay, but
I would like to know more.

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 02:36 PM

Here you go.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Booking woes
From:
Date: 09 Nov 04 - 01:53 PM

All too familiar scenario, but I have a little insight into this that might help. This may not have been what happened to you, but this is they way these guys work a lot.
The people who book festivals (especially small ones) often work for the chamber of commerce or have some other job and aren't really good at handling the booking. They don't like to tell someone to their face or on the phone that they don't want them, so they tell them to turn the material in, then they don't get back to anyone until after they've booked the acts. That way they don't have to tell anyone "no", they just say "I'm sorry, but we're all booked up".
Furthermore, some of the people like to get alll the booking done early, so they book up well ahead of the cutoff date for submittals. There's a huge advantage to getting your package in early. Not only that, but sometimes only after they see your package for a year or two, do they warm up to it and book you.
Lastly, some festivals like to book different acts which makes it tough on rock bands. There are a couple steel drum bands here in Seattle. They get a lot of summer festivals because it's different, but they sure aren't crowding us out of the club dates the other 9months out of the year.
In summary, a lot of the booking folks for festivals don't know what they're doing. Just get your stuff in early and keep submitting the packages year after year. I hope this helps.