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BS: God's simple plan of salvation...
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Subject: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,tarheel Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:28 PM before any of you delete this thread(which reminds me,if this is an open forum why only the negative thiungs allowed here?)...anyway,i have read a lot in here in recent weeks about whther folks in here believe in HELL or HEAVEN or GOD or is RELIGION rubbish? well,if you dont believe in HEAVEN,HELL,GOD or RELIGION,what do you belive in? and...before you answer that,here's what i believe in! "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12 God's Simple Plan of Salvation My Friend: I am asking you the most important question of life. Your joy or your sorrow for all eternity depends upon your answer. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? God says in order to go to Heaven, you must be born again. In John 3:7, Jesus said to Nicodemus, "Ye must be born again." In the Bible God gives us the plan of how to be born again which means to be saved. His plan is simple! You can be saved today. How? First, my friend, you must realize you are a sinner. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). Because you are a sinner, you are condemned to death. "For the wages [payment] of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). This includes eternal separation from God in Hell. "...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27). But God loved you so much He gave His only begotten Son, Jesus, to bear your sin and die in your place. "...He hath made Him [Jesus, Who knew no sin] to be sin for us...that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him" (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus had to shed His blood and die. "For the life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev. 17:11). "...without shedding of blood is no remission [pardon]" (Hebrews 9:22). "...God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Although we cannot understand how, God said my sins and your sins were laid upon Jesus and He died in our place. He became our substitute. It is true. God cannot lie. My friend, "God...commandeth all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30). This repentance is a change of mind that agrees with God that one is a sinner, and also agrees with what Jesus did for us on the Cross. In Acts 16:30-31, the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas: "...'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?' And they said, 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved... .' " Simply believe on Him as the one who bore your sin, died in your place, was buried, and whom God resurrected. His resurrection powerfully assures that the believer can claim everlasting life when Jesus is received as Savior. "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name" (John 1:12). "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13). Whosoever includes you. Shall be saved means not maybe, nor can, but shall be saved. Surely, you realize you are a sinner. Right now, wherever you are, repenting, lift your heart to God in prayer. In Luke 18:13, the sinner prayed: "God be merciful to me a sinner." Just pray: "Oh God, I know I am a sinner. I believe Jesus was my substitute when He died on the Cross. I believe His shed blood, death, burial, and resurrection were for me. I now receive Him as my Savior. I thank You for the forgiveness of my sins, the gift of salvation and everlasting life, because of Your merciful grace. Amen." Just take God at His word and claim His salvation by faith. Believe, and you will be saved. No church, no lodge, no good works can save you. Remember, God does the saving. All of it! God's simple plan of salvation is: You are a sinner. Therefore, unless you believe on Jesus Who died in your place, you will spend eternity in Hell. If you believe on Him as your crucified, buried, and risen Savior, you receive forgiveness for all of your sins and His gift of eternal salvation by faith. You say, "Surely, it cannot be that simple." Yes, that simple! It is scriptural. It is God's plan. My friend, believe on Jesus and receive Him as Savior today. If His plan is not perfectly clear, read this tract over and over, without laying it down, until you understand it. Your soul is worth more than all the world. "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:36). Be sure you are saved. If you lose your soul, you miss Heaven and lose all. Please! Let God save you this very moment. God's power will save you, keep you saved, and enable you to live a victorious Christian life. "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it" (1 Corinthians 10:13). Do not trust your feelings. They change. Stand on God's promises. They never change. After you are saved, there are three things to practice daily for spiritual growth: Pray -- you talk to God. Read your Bible -- God talks to you. Witness -- you talk for God. You should be baptized in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ as a public testimony of your salvation, and then unite with a Bible-believing church without delay. "Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord...." (2 Timothy 1:8) "Whosoever therefore shall confess [testify of] Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 10:32). |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,amergin Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:32 PM yawn. religion is a scam put upon the masses to keep the few in power. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:36 PM Tar Heel, there are many existing threads on what people believe. IMO we don't need a new one. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:37 PM And TH's post is a paste-in. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:40 PM I believe in been nice to people, and helping them etc if you can, and been good and not harming people, ie not nicking stuff, or thumping people unless they hit you first, or they look dodgy and you think they might hit you, [speeding and stuff like that is ok, and tax fiddling is ok, but drink ing and driving is bad, becase you could crash into their car and bust it, or kill them, and thhats bad] anyway=good and bad is common sens, ie if waht you doing could hurt someone or piss them off, then dont do it, but iff wqaht you doing is good and make people happy then do it, ie if someone got a flat tyre on his van, and you know how to fix it, and youy fix it, he will be happy. and you should be kind to animals as well, and not kill them on purpose , unless they are dangerous ones, or you going to eat them, but killing aninals just for a laugh, ie fox hunhting etc is bad. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,tarheel Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:43 PM i dont l,ive in here...just visit fromn time to time,WYSIWYG...you folks need to get a life! |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: SINSULL Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM And no throwing apple cores in the gutter. That really pisses off old men. Then they yell and you have to yell back. That's how wars start. "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" works for me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:48 PM Anyway-one thing waht pisses me off is people quoting bits from the bibble, ie"neither is there salvation in any other" etc and people telling me, if i dont believe in god, i wont be salvated. i'm not bothered, i used to belive in god, [my mam and dad did, [my dads ded now, but he was a christian bloke and he always wore a cross on his neck, and got buried in a church place]. i stopped believing in god, because i think its a load of rubbish. I think buddists are the best religous sort of people, tyhey never make war, they never hit people, they never nick stuff, and they never make trubble. [but only bad thing about them is they are vegitariuns]. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: robomatic Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:53 PM I think tarheel means well and his/her selections are in better taste than others that i've read in the hall of forums. But I'm not a Christian. I simply want a recognition that there are a bunch of good values to have that are agreeable to Christians as well, but were not invented by Christians. Like the ten commandments, as a minor example. I also prefer the 'negative' version of the golden rule: "That which is objectionable to you, do not do to another." That way people who like licorice sticks will not be giving them to me, because even if everyone else likes 'em, I hate 'em. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: jimmyt Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:54 PM If this is about Salivation, medicined can be prescribed to decrease the saliva flow. I could drop you a prescription in the mail if you are truly bothered by this. Best to just spit I guess. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: LilyFestre Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:56 PM Tarheel, If you would read any of the posts here, I would think you would be CLEARLY about to see that each of these fine people have interesting lives and experiences and thoughts that they are kind enough to share with the rest of the world. Why be so bitter? Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:56 PM I was thinking about been a buddist, but i can't be arsed, especially as they are all vefigarians] bit of meat doesent do any harm! do they drink? Reform Quackers are ok, i read about them, they dont agree with wars, they seem ok i did a test [www.beliefnet.org] to see waht religon i should be, it said reform quacker, it said i'm 100 percent matched to them. i read about them, they dont pray, they have meetings, and sit about talking, [do they drink? do they eat meat? i think i will read a bit more about them, bye. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: CarolC Date: 09 Sep 04 - 03:59 PM I respect your right to believe what you do, tarheel, but you asked what we believe, and this is what I believe: I believe that, like me, you, tarheel, are a tiny spark of divinity doing your best to make your way through the process of your growth as a spiritual being, and the emergence of your understanding of your true self. I believe your salvation is never in question, but that you may need to believe that it is from time to time in order to learn whatever you wanted or needed to learn from having such experiences and holding such beliefs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: LilyFestre Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:03 PM Reform Quackers? LOL.....Ducks gone bad gone good! LMAO! Are you sure it isn't Reformed QUAKERS? Dang...I needed to laugh..that felt GOOD...thank you Sir jOhn Hull, Reformed Quacker *waddle waddle quack quack* *Smirk* Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Once Famous Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:04 PM tarheel, I believe in the God of Israel and completely reject Jesus Christ as our savior and the messiah. So do all of the other Jews I know. we are not counting on going to hell for that. Maybe for getting high at concerts years ago, but not for that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: jimmyt Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:04 PM John, before you commit to the Quaker religion, do you like oats? |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: jimmyt Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:07 PM CarolC right you are. Lily isn't it amazing where your inspiration comes from every day? did you ever think that you would get a giggle out of this thread? just goes to show you, there is a God, and by golly............she sure has a sense of humor! |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:09 PM According to this morning's paper the Reverend Richard Butler has passed away. He lived five or ten miles from me, and though I didn't know him personally, I do know he had accepted Christ as his savior, and was a pastor to his flock. His flock was the Aryan Nations, of whom many of you have heard, and he believed his time in the US Air Force in WWII was spent fighting on the wrong side,because he thought Hitler to be the greatest man of the 20th century. He prayed, read his Bible and Witnessed, and he was no loss to the world, which is a terrible thing to say about anyone. And this is a useless rant, because, although tarheel has ears, he hears not. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: jimmyt Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:11 PM Tar Heel, "in all things, moderation." I submit that an enormous amount of the heartache and problems in the world today can be tracked to religious extremists, be it Osama Bin Ladin, or people who of the Christian faith who are so staunchly entrenched in "the Word" that they cannot see the folly of their ways. Intolerance does not represent the God I believe in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:14 PM I find no good evidence to support the existance of any 'god' or surpreme beings... And until I do, I'll continue to question it's/their existance... |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Georgiansilver Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:21 PM We all have choices to make but how many choices are made with full possession of the facts...How many choices are made because of peoples opinions, or the framework they have built during their lives...be it fact or fiction. How many take the time to actually find out what a belief is about before they dismiss it as mumbo-jumbo? Yes we all have to make choices but they should be on a firm grounding of learning..not on conjecture. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: SINSULL Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:22 PM I am an atheist. The quote below confuses me: "Simply believe on Him as the one who bore your sin, died in your place, was buried, and whom God resurrected. His resurrection powerfully assures that the believer can claim everlasting life when Jesus is received as Savior." Surely there must be a further requirement - do no more sin, maybe? Or will heaven be filled with the likes of Rev. Butler? |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,Irate Participant Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:27 PM This is a barrel of manure. I don't see how any human and mortal clod can even claim the right to speak about a plan generated by an Infinite and Divine Power -- least of all some country folkie from North Carolina. With all due respect I hardly expect divine revelation to arrive from such an unqualified quarter. It is arrogant, and presumptuous to make such assertions, and it is certainly not welcome. I thank you. I.P. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:44 PM I've been a Christian all my life, and the words of Scripture are sacred to me. I hate to seem them used as Spam, or plastered onto courtroom walls as some sort of weapon to be dropped upon those who choose not to believe, to attempt to coerce them with propaganda. These words are supposed to be a gift, freely given and freely accepted - not something to be imposed upon people. The above is my personal opinion. As for the question of whether it should be deleted or not, here's the official answer:
All the best to you, Tar Heel. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Bill D Date: 09 Sep 04 - 04:44 PM "...if you dont believe in HEAVEN,HELL,GOD or RELIGION,what do you belive in?" 1)the power of the human mind to learn rationality, 2) the ability to be "good for goodness sake" instead of because a book told you to. 3) the common sense to not preach to others where it is not welcome and appropriate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: M.Ted Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:02 PM So Clinton Hammond, what would constitute "good evidence" to you? And how hard have you looked for it--Anyway, what do you think that "God" or a "Supreme Being" would be? This because you can't find something if you don't know what you are looking for-- Do you not believe in Geometry? There is, after all, no proof for the axioms-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: freda underhill Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:02 PM what Bill D said, and a few irrational things too. freda |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,amergin Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:09 PM Clint, so butler finally died? I can't say that I am heartbroken at the news...he did make for some interesting convos that I have had when people find out where I'm from...unfortuantely when scum like him pass on...there are always others to take his place. I remember the neo nazi parade not ten miles from my grandparents' house during the siege of Weaver's cabin....just lovely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,realist Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:20 PM I agree with Martin Gibson. What do I believe in? Science! |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:21 PM Screenful? That's odd-- I have the smallest font size selected in this browser, and it's 3-1/2w "page downs" to me. On a big monitor. But I don't care if it's deleted or not-- didnlt ask for it in fact. Tarheel I DO have a life, I just don't appreciate the drive-by pastings you seem to do lately. To me it does not look like you want to know what others think as much as you just want to slap up a poster on your beliefs. ~S~
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Once Famous Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:40 PM Yes, but Susan, in an open forum, he's entitled to do it. besides, I don't want to always be the one to stir things up around here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:49 PM He's entitled to do it, and I'm entitled to tell him I don't like it. :~) ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Once Famous Date: 09 Sep 04 - 05:58 PM And I'm entitled to tell you all that ordering ketchup on a hot dog in Chicago will get you thrown out of the place. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:00 PM Tarheel, all religions came into being in order that certain people in a certain time, place, and culture could approach what they called "God" or "Yahweh" or "Allah" or "Wakan Tanka" or "Father" or "Mother" or "Tao" or "the Absolute" or "the Divine" or "the Infinite" or "life"...in a way that was meaningful and helpful to them. That naturally varied from one time and place to another, because people vary, and their way of expressing themselves varies. Obviously the particular way you have chosen to do that suits you. That's fine with me. I gather, though, that other ways which differ in word or detail from the one you are most familiar with are not fine with you. Too bad. People are often...I should say, usually...exclusive and conditional in their love, Tarheel. God is neither. God is non-denominational and is confined to any one church, holy book, prophet, or specific religion. This means your way of believing is okay with me, but mine is probably not with yours...despite the fact that we no doubt share the same basic spiritual ideals! That is a great shame, if you ask me. People are not "sinners", they are learners on the path of experience...and they do make mistakes while going through the learning process. Those mistakes are referred to as "sin" by people who have bought into the idea of living life with a massive guilt complex ("We're not worthy! We're not worthy!). It's a ridiculous attitude, it does not come from God, and it is of no help to humanity to wallow in such a self-abusive notion in the first place. The value in mistakes is that they alert you to the fact that there is a better way. This is good. Without mistakes, in fact, no one learns anything. Your God is not a jealous God. He does not get angry and consign "sinners" to Hell. It's people who do stuff like that. You're right about one thing though...people who type more than an hour's worth of words here a day DO need to get a life! :-) And that includes me... |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Bill D Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:03 PM well, Joe, it's at LEAST 2½ screenfulls for me, also...copying & pasting that much of anything is extreme...tarheel can simply post links to where he finds this stuff, and those who wish can go read it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:04 PM MG, MG, MG-- I'm FROM Chicago.... you don't need to tell me THAT! :~) I believe in hot dogs! REAL dogs! There is no Vienna Beef where I live, alas. No real dogs here. Think of it-- dogless these ten years and more. When I order one here (why do I DO that?) I always say, when they serve it, "That dog won't hunt!" Might as WELL put ketchup on 'em, here! ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: LilyFestre Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:09 PM Ok...gotta ask...what's the difference? I was to Chicago once when I was about 12....all I remember was that the McDonald's in Chicago had BREAKFAST.....BIG NEWS to a 12 year old! That...and nearly being killed by a speeding train since my stepfather didn't have enough brains in his head to heed the flashing light and big giant bars slamming down into the van (ahhh..yes....it was a LONG time ago...custom van...stained glass cross in the ceiling, wall to ceiling shag carpeting, teardrop shaped windows in the rear......)...anyway...what's the difference in hotdogs? I'm a Nathan's kinda girl myself.... Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:09 PM ARGh! Left the word NOT out of an above sentence. Typical. This probably happens to George Bush sometimes too. :-) Well, it should have said: "God is non-denominational and is NOT confined to any one church, holy book, prophet, or specific religion." And if people would just get that one little idea straight, we could be done with all those idiotic religious wars. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Fishpicker Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:11 PM Tarheel, I would never *buy* into any religion that claims to be the only way to salvation and condems all other points of view, there are allot of people on this planet that don't follow christianity. There are allot of good people on this planet that don't follow christianity, don't tell me they are all going down the crapper. There is always some zealot knocking on the door, ranting on the tv or radio or bloviating on an internet news group about his or her religion being the end all be all of the universe when in fact they don't know jack squat more than the next person about this life or the next. FP |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Clinton Hammond Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:18 PM "Clinton Hammond, what would constitute "good evidence" to you?" Like most things, one won't know till one finds it... |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: SINSULL Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:23 PM No answer to my question... |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: wysiwyg Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:27 PM LF, the difference must be eaten to be assimilated. :~) It's not just the dog, either, it's the bun, the condiments, the attitude oof the server-- (weeping profusely now)-- the smell of the fries DAMN you Martin Gibson-- Even if I could get a kosher dog here, it just wouldn't be the same without the inimitable scent of CTA buses passing by, the river and or lake smell..... ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: LilyFestre Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:32 PM Best hotdog I ever had was in Toronto on the street.....and yep..not just the hotdog...the condiments, the street vendor, the weather, the noise.....all of the environment was part of it. Maybe it wasn't a Chicago dog...but what a nice memory! From salvation to reformed quackers to hot dogs....it HAS to be a good day! :) Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 09 Sep 04 - 06:38 PM hello=waht you wrting in diffrent colours for then? |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: M.Ted Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:16 PM Do you have any reason to believe that when you see evidence of the existance of God, that you will recognize it? It has been pointed out that people believed that the sun revolved around the earth because that is how it appeared-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:40 PM Ever had this experience where you're in a dream and nobody sees you or hears you? You talk to them, but they don't realize you're there at all. They're too busy or else they're deaf and blind. You jump up and down waving your arms but they don't see you. You yell, "Look out! You're gonna drive right off the road!" No reaction whatsoever. Then you go down the road and come across this temple that a bunch of them put up in your honor, and none of them can see you either! More than that, they go on babbling about all kinds of rules you supposedly laid down a few thousand years ago and the horrible punishments you supposedly doll out to "sinners", and then they go and viciously persecute other people for breaking the rules THEY made up in your name! It would take almost infinite compassion to be able to put up with this sort of nonsense on a daily basis and still love people. You'd have to be God to be capable of it. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: khandu Date: 09 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM I am a Christian who "works out my own salvation with fear & trembling" & who allows others to do (or not do) the same. I discuss my beliefs with anyone who is sincerely interested, & with none who aren't. ken |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Shanghaiceltic Date: 09 Sep 04 - 08:46 PM 'There are many ways to the top of a mountain' Having a Christian belief is not an automatic ticket. My problem with Christianity is that it seems to condemn anyone who does not share it's beliefs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Sep 04 - 08:55 PM Yeah, that's the problem with a lot of religions... |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:13 PM 7 and a half screenfuls for me! |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Bobert Date: 09 Sep 04 - 09:37 PM I have never hidden the fact that I am a Christain and won't now. I do, however, have problems with many Christain churches that I do not feel best represent the teaching of Jesus. Some seem to just skip right over Jesus!?!!... As for salvation, the word that I do not recall reading in tarheels intial post is the word "faith". Faith is at the centerpiece of anyones spirituality. Without it, beliefs are at the mercy of winds and whims. As for my own life, I have both a belief and faith that thru Jesus I shall know the Father (God). I have experienced this knowing in my own life. And I love the Father for I have seen His awsome powers in the way he lovingly works in my life... I can't think of anything that I can add to this thread that I haven't just stated. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Two_bears Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:20 PM But I'm not a Christian. I simply want a recognition that there are a bunch of good values to have that are agreeable to Christians as well, but were not invented by Christians. Like the ten commandments, as a minor example. Robomatic: I am not "Christian", and had more than enough of the bible shoved down my throat as a child. I am a devout pagan. I believe that, like me, you, tarheel, are a tiny spark of divinity doing your best to make your way through the process of your growth as a spiritual being, and the emergence of your understanding of your true self. I believe your salvation is never in question, but that you may need to believe that it is from time to time in order to learn whatever you wanted or needed to learn from having such experiences and holding such beliefs. Carol: I agree completely. Everything is a manifestation of the Great Spirit, and has a spark of divinity in them. ANL - 2B |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: JennyO Date: 09 Sep 04 - 11:25 PM Some of you guys must have awfully small screens. It's just over a screenful for me. I don't see what the fuss is all about. I don't happen to believe what tarheel does, so after the first couple of sentences I only skimmed it, then moved on to other posts. When I was a child, I had bad experiences of having christianity shoved down my throat, and of being judged not worthy by lots of do-gooding hypocrites, particularly in my own family. My brother copped it too, but we both rode it out and are stronger for it. My brother is happily agnostic but makes a living with his group singing early sacred music in churches and cathedrals all over Europe - he sees no problem with that. I also am wary of religions which claim to be the only right one. In my opinion, it is this attitude which causes the worst wars and violence on this planet. I have long thought that if hostile aliens were to land here and try and take us over, we would pretty soon learn to stick together - united by a common enemy, so to speak. Unfortunately, it would probably take something like that to make people realise that we are all in this thing called Life together, and that is in our best interest to get along and work for the good of this planet. I suppose I would describe myself as a pagan. I don't follow any rigid rules, but I feel that we are all connected, and that includes animals plants and rocks too, therefore I try to do no harm, to contribute in positive ways where possible to the wellbeing of others. I also believe my soul is on a journey of discovery, in this life and many others, and that every soul has to find its own path. That is why I would not condemn tarheel or anyone else for putting forward their point of view. I didn't always feel this generous - it took me a while to get over the bitterness I felt about so-called christians, but I found that once I was able to let people and things just be what they are, life got a lot simpler. The more I let go of control, the more things just seem to work out and come to me - not heaps of money or anything, but friends, happy "coincidences", good times and music, even parking spots :-) So in answer to the initial question "Are you saved?" - In the context of the person who asked the question, no, I'm not, but in the context of my life as I see it, the question is meaningless. I don't feel any need to be saved. I'm quite happy where I am thank you. Jenny |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Little Hawk Date: 09 Sep 04 - 11:28 PM I regard it as a meaningless question too, in the context in which it is usually uttered, though of course it is meaningful for the one uttering it. Life does not judge people, people judge people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: JennyO Date: 09 Sep 04 - 11:35 PM By the way, Carol C, Little Hawk and Two Bears put it very well IMO. I wish I could have said it as well as you, Carol. I'm finding this an interesting thread. I'm glad it wasn't deleted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: M.Ted Date: 10 Sep 04 - 12:36 AM Well, Christian or not--tarheel is a bit of a plagarist--Sad when one is not able to find one's own words to praise God's glory-- God's Simple Plan of Salvation |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Dewey Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:04 AM I am a Christian myself, yet to this day there is something about the Tract-pushing style of Christianity that gets my goat. You can't convince anybody of anything unless their heart is ready. Ususally tract pushing has the opposite effect, it leads people away from Christ instead of toward. There is a time and a place! Please don't give me a tract, when I deliver a pizza to your door. I HATE when this happens! There is something condescending and self-rightous about tract peddlers. I believe in their sincerity but not their methods, religion is personal, and not contained in the person's execution of alot of miscellaneous Bible quotes to a captive listener who may not be in the mode to hear it, or even tolerate the views. Dewey |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Two_bears Date: 10 Sep 04 - 03:49 AM When I was a child, I had bad experiences of having christianity shoved down my throat, and of being judged not worthy by lots of do-gooding hypocrites, Jenny: We should get together and compare notes, and let me show you the 50-75 scars on my arms where good "Christians" burned me with cigarettes as punishment. I suppose I would describe myself as a pagan. I don't follow any rigid rules, but I feel that we are all connected, and that includes animals plants and rocks too, therefore I try to do no harm, to contribute in positive ways where possible to the wellbeing of others. I also believe my soul is on a journey of discovery, You should read my website here ANL - 2B |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Dewey Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:11 AM My Friend, As A fellow brother in Christ please do not great me here as, "MY FRIEND" it comes across as one who thinks himself more enlightened and spiritual, and also has the same horrible rapport with the non-believer as well. As a christian I have occasionally stated my opinions here as well, but more indirectly, which made them SLIGHTLY more tolerable. (at least I sincerely hope this was the case. And my fellow mudcatters have my WORD that I will not abuse them with excessive religious profundity) My apologies to all hear for talking religion to much in the past. Thick Biblical Verse references, posted in most forums always draw more criticism than acceptance. A preachy approach becomes a self-centered approach and bores/offends the audience its seeks to reach, while exciting the person only who is delivering the sermon, All others run to avoid having to hear it. Do not wish to hurt the feelings of this poster, as I am sure he/she is sincere in their convictions and/or since of duty. In my early days of Christianity I used to Bible thump with the same zeal. Then one day, after seeing all the negativity that resulted from the thumping, I stopped thumping. Both me and my former "audience" have been much more happy and receptive to my Christianity since. Dewey (who hopes he has not offended this otherwise very nice christian person) |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Dave Hanson Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:19 AM It seems to me that there are a lot of devout believers and holy zealots in this world who want to kill people who do not believe what they believe, I'm an atheist and I wish no harm on anyone. eric |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Two_bears Date: 10 Sep 04 - 08:36 AM It seems to me that there are a lot of devout believers and holy zealots in this world who want to kill people who do not believe what they believe, I'm an atheist and I wish no harm on anyone. Eric: I live by the one HUNA commandment "Harm nothing with hatred", and I am NOT an athiest. ;-) ANL - 2B |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: MaineDog Date: 10 Sep 04 - 09:01 AM I cannot object to this thread because it is properly labelled, and no one has to read it. I would object if someone disrupted it with personal attacks or profanity, just because they don't agree. MD |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Dave Hanson Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:27 AM The Irish comedian Dave Allen used to close his show by saying ' may your god go with you ' this is a sentiment I can agree with and wish on all you believres. eric |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:36 AM Two bears says: "I live by the one HUNA commandment "Harm nothing with hatred." Guess you can kill any ol' sombitch as long as you smile while doing it. Then you have harmed with a smile, not hatred. Nice organization! Is that the same one Hitler used??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Once Famous Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:46 AM If you want to see god, get a kosher hot dog with mustard, relish, onions, pickle, tomato on it. If you want to see the devil, order a goyisha hot dog with just ketchup on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Sep 04 - 10:54 AM After serving a southern-style ham dinner to my paw in law one night, while caring for him so my maw in law could go on a trip, I asked him how he liked what I had made-- not my usual style of cooking, and I don't like ham myself. Crouched over his plate with his hunched up back and frail, spindly arms, fingers managing to spear the ham and swirl it in the creamed corn, he looked up from under his cowboy hat and said only, "He made a perfect world." From ham to kosher dogs, and everything in between-- SOME things are obvious all on their own. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Sep 04 - 01:02 PM No, Guest, Hitler used hatred in an entirely obvious manner (and so does George Bush and so does Al Queda). It is the inner intention that is crucial in a spiritual sense. If you genuinely live by the credo "Harm nothing with hatred" then you will not be taken in by a leader like Hitler, regardless of whether you are a religious person OR an atheist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Two_bears Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:08 PM Two bears says: "I live by the one HUNA commandment "Harm nothing with hatred." Guess you can kill any ol' sombitch as long as you smile while doing it. Then you have harmed with a smile, not hatred. Nice organization! Is that the same one Hitler used??? guest: Then you don't know anything about it. I don't harm anything unless I need the plant or animal for food, or some animal or human being doing their best to harm or kill me. I even catch poisoinous spiders under a glass and release them outside unharmed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: frogprince Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:52 PM For quite a bit of my life, I was a fundamentalist. Then, by degrees, I began to reconsider some of the implications. I still believe that we are all created in the image of God. But, by fundamentalist tenets, God created us knowing that we would all be imperfect, and that, by "His" very nature, "He" would be forced to condemn us to eternal Hell for the least imperfection. Granted, because "God so loved the world", he gave us an out, by allowing a perfect person to face the death penalty in our place. But if you are raised in a non-christian faith, and fail to renounce your background and convert, or have the misfortune of not hearing the Gospel presented in a convincing way, you are way out of luck, for all eternity. No human society, however barbaric, has demanded the death penalty for absolutely every human imperfection, or because of the imperfection of one's forbears. Jesus (for one)taught us the great value of simple forgiveness among men; how have we ever conceived of God as being totally unable to forgive the children he loves, without having to put someone to a bloody death in order to do so? |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Ebbie Date: 10 Sep 04 - 04:57 PM frogprince, that's where I stand also. The defining moment for me came when it occurred to me that mankind has what seems to be an inborn understanding that torture is an evil thing. Why then would mankind's creator indulge in such an evil? Extinguishment I can understand, torture never. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Little Hawk Date: 10 Sep 04 - 05:29 PM And yet I have heard it said recently by spokesmen for the "War on Terror" that torture is justifiable in certain cases...when it is used on terrorists to gain vital information! My, my. Sounds like how the Spanish Inquisition used to justify its bloody practices, doesn't it? Beware of such scoundrels posing as the protectors of humanity. They protect nothing but their own turf. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,tarheel Date: 11 Sep 04 - 05:06 PM attetion: this is not a PASTE!...oh well,i got you attention,didn't i?it just blows my mind to read the answers in here to my question about ,what do you believe ?if i had given those reasons for not accepting christ as my personal savior,to my parents,they would have had me shot at sunrise or run out of town "tarred and feathered" for sure! anyway,it was an interesting thread!i learned a lot about all of you (that i had suspected anyway)!it just confirmed my suspicions! so........thanks for the answers and i still think many of you need to "get a life"...get out in the real world and find out how life really works!....regards,tarheel |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Sep 04 - 05:49 PM Forgive me for putting my "two penneth" as us Brits say, in here but God does have a simple plan for salvation of all his children.......even those who don't know him yet!!!! How many of you have taken the time to find out what he has planned??? Try now! Rersearch and study will teach you all you really need to know but are you prepared to do it....to spend some of your valuable time studying it??? I think not!!!!! Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:30 PM and one more thing, "God" is not a real estate agent. any claim to land or territory based on what was allocated by a "God" is the biggest load of tripe thats ever been passed of as holy word from on high. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: CarolC Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:41 PM Rersearch and study will teach you all you really need to know but are you prepared to do it....to spend some of your valuable time studying it??? I think not!!!!! Did you intend to come across as being very condescending, self-righteous, and preachy in this post, Georgiansilver? |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:45 PM I do apologise if that's how it came across but who is prepared to spend the time these days on anything other than their own following? People lead such ordered lives in general that they cannot find the time to study anything.Best wishes |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: CarolC Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:46 PM I think you presume a lot, Georgiansilver. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:48 PM How do you reach that conclusion Carol? Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: CarolC Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:52 PM People lead such ordered lives in general that they cannot find the time to study anything. This is a very presumptious thing to say. You know nothing about most of the people in this forum and, indeed, about most of the people in the world. You are entitled to speak for yourself, but that is all. The rest of us will speak for ourselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:56 PM OOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhh. So are you saying that people don't live ordered lives Carol???? that they live for the minute in hand...or are you speaking for you??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Sep 04 - 06:58 PM Who are you speaking for then please....when you quote "The rest of us".....?????? Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: CarolC Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:00 PM I won't speak for the rest of the people in the world, Georgiansilver. That would be presumptious. I can tell you that my own life is anything but ordered. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: CarolC Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:02 PM Correction: *presumptuous* |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 11 Sep 04 - 07:06 PM I've taken the time ro read the Bible and some commentary on it, and I still do sometimes. I even went through a confirmation class a long time ago, and my uncle Newt was an Assembly of God preacher. How's them credentials? And I forgot -- I'm also an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church. I found out some things about the churches' wonderful plan for my life and salvation, and nothing much about God's. What appeals to me most is what they call philosophical Taoism. I think. What Lao Tzu said, anyway. Basically, that you can spit farther down- than up- wind, and keep your face cleaner. I'm not sure if it's a religion, but it's ok. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: beardedbruce Date: 11 Sep 04 - 09:24 PM Matthew 24:23... |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: frogprince Date: 11 Sep 04 - 11:04 PM Note one thing about tarheel's last entry; the word "personal" never appears with "saviour" in the Bible; but a very high percent of American fundamentalists are so tightly programmed that they aren't quite comfortable with anyone who refers to Christ as their saviour without using the complete idiom including "personal". It's hard to blame someone for what has been instilled rigidly from childhood. Tarheel, I'll see you on the other side some day, and we'll rejoice in the presence of God together. You'll just be a little embarassed to see how many of the rest of us are there too. ' |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: Georgiansilver Date: 12 Sep 04 - 04:22 AM CarolC I am happy for you to have a disordered life. When I took my early retirement, I considered that now was the time to live an unplanned/unordered day...to just do what I wanted with every minute of the rest of my life....it has been impossible! Other people make demands on time..I have started things which I continue with, many of which are regular. Much of my time...in spite of no longer working is ordered because I have allowed it to become so. If as you say your life is not ordered...you feel free to do whatever you like, whenever you like...is that a reality? Do you have to be in particular places at particular times for anything? If your answer is negative then you are a very fortunate person. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: InOBU Date: 12 Sep 04 - 08:59 AM John from Hull... We Quakers (also known as Quackers, Quakes, Quacksers, Qwookers (my Isreale friend Kay of the band Kay and the Boyz) Qwinks, Quacks,) DO pray, we pray everyone else whould stop attempting to convert the world, converstion is the ultimate act of disrespect for ones fellows and for the basic consept of a single God. I realize that in saying that, I am guilty of the same, but what the hell. As to non violent, yes we genneraly are, however some Quakers have been guilty of murdering those who promote the myth that we have ANYTHING to do with Quaker oats, other than there is a picture of me on the lable... Buelies (spelt wrong) in Ireland (the Tea company) IS Quaker owned, Cadburry, Hersey, Chase and Sandborn coffie, Folgers Coffee... all were founded by Quakes, as we have a maritime tradition and need the dry goods (we were Whalermen... sorry Sir john from HuLl... but we DID eat the cruthers...) and as to religion... I am not adverse to discussing it over a wee drink - though I don't genneraly drink)but I recall a great and late Quaker elder, Peter Fingesten who once wrote, "I drink therefore I think". Well there we are... here I am, and what ever.\ Cheers Larry |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,Obie Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:26 AM |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:04 AM Abu Ben Adhem "Abu Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase) Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace And saw, within the moonlight of his room Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom An angel writing in a book of gold. Exceeding peace had made Ben Adhem bold And to the presence in his room he said 'What writest thou?' The vision raised its head And with a look made of all sweet accord Answered: 'The names of those who love the Lord 'And is mine one?' said Abu. 'Nay not so' Replied the Angel: Abu spoke more low But cheerily still and said 'I pray thee then Write me as one that loves his fellow-men' The angel wrote and vanished. The next night It came again with a great awakening light And showed the names whom love of God had blessed. And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest." |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,Obie Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:11 AM Sorry......... ABU BEN ADHEM by James Henry Leigh Hunt (1784-1859) |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: beardedbruce Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:21 AM A favorite of mine ( a caudated sonnet) I think I have posted it in the past, but more people need to read it. Thanks, Guest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: CarolC Date: 12 Sep 04 - 01:15 PM Georgiansilver, I do have quite a lot of freedom to decide what I will do and when. But that's not really the point. The point is that you may feel that you don't have time to study things because your life is very ordered, but that is just you. Some people don't have ordered lives, and some are able to find ways to study even within the well ordered lives they lead. And some of those who do study will come to different conclusions about spiritual matters than you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: God's simple plan of salvation... From: GUEST,Boab Date: 13 Sep 04 - 02:58 AM I fail to see any great merit in any religion which involves a bribe which promises a personal reward, not for being "good", but for blindly acclaiming the merits of the so-called "only true faith". Jesus Christ was a wonderful person---by all accounts [and I don't disbelieve them..], but he Himself was heard to query "Why callest thou ME "good""? The better human being is the one who a good person for the sake of being just that---and far superior to those who practise "goodness" for the sake of a promised reward. We have two bright specimens leading Britain and the USA---Blair and Bush. They are reported as having "prayed together" [preyed?]. As Rab Burns once wrote---"--If such as he in Heav'n may be, then welcome, hail, Damnation!" |
