BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?

Subject: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:52 AM

63% of undecided voters, according to a recent TIME poll, are women.

So is it a real possibility that the single women's vote could decide it all this year? That suggestion was made over at TIME.com:

"The goal for Kerry is to lock women in and turn them out on Nov. 2.

If single women were to vote at the rate of married women, it could make all the difference. In a TIME poll from September, 50% of single women supported Kerry, versus 38% of married women. Single women comprise 43% of the U.S. female voting-age population, but in 2000 nearly half of them remained on the sidelines (compared with 40.5% of the general public). They either had not registered or did not vote.

To make sure they get to the polls this time, the Democratic National Committee has a program called Take Five that encourages female supporters to identify five single women and get them out to vote by contacting them repeatedly before Election Day.

Women's groups are mustering their forces as well. Planned Parenthood helped sponsor a Vaginas Vote, Chicks Rock concert to raise money and awareness last month at the Apollo Theater in New York City. In battleground states last week an organization called Mothers Opposing Bush began running ads featuring Sopranos star Edie Falco talking about failing schools and inadequate health care. In college papers the group is placing ads warning about a reinstatement of the draft unless Kerry wins. Persistent if unsubstantiated rumors of a coming draft may have explained Bush's explicit promise in his closing debate remarks to maintain an all-volunteer force.

The pro-Kerry organizations are lined up against groups like Security Moms 4 Bush and Women in Support of the President. All those women may have at least one thing in common: whatever the outcome on Nov. 2, they are not packing up their political tents. Having discovered their power to move the levers of an election and get the candidates to court them, many are already planning their priorities for the next crusade, which begins Nov. 3."

---

Thread title changed. You can say more-or-less what you like in an individual message, as long as it isn't an attack or hate message, but I don't see any reason why we should be forced to keep the title for the thread. I suppose it's not horrible or anything. It's just obnoxious.
-Joe Offer-

---

...and then I changed my mind when I was convinced the term "vagina vote" was legit.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:33 AM

Dear Guest, whereas I am basically on your side politically, I would have preferred it if you had placed a potentially controversial post with a name. I am also baffled as to why the word "vagina" needed to be in the title of this thread. It is eye catching, but I suspect that there may be more than one woman who would prefer not to be referred to by her genitalia.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 12:06 PM

What -0- the single-penis voters aren't worth courting? And ...um... are their double-or-more-vagina voters out there?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 12:20 PM

alanabit is right...the title of this thread needs to be changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 12:34 PM

But what of West Vagina? That was a pivot state in the last election.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 12:58 PM

Well, I guess that would make Bobert's measuring scale a:

Wes Vaginny Slide Rule

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 03:49 PM

I didn't know about double vaginas. You learn something every day!

d

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 04:38 PM

Kangaroos.

Over-bred dogs (sometimes)

Very rare in people.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 04:53 PM

The chief female genital is known as the vagina. This organ is present in all marsupials and placental mammals. In marsupials, two vaginas as and two uteri are present; in primates, including the human female, only one vagina a is present; and in mammals intermediate in development between the marsupials and primates, various degrees of partially united, double vaginas as are present.

As long as they don't get to vote double or twice. So, if you see any kangaroos in the voting line, contact a voting official...the offending marsupium may have an underaged "joey" in that pouch that might pull the lever a second time.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 07:40 PM

"In a TIME poll from September, 50% of single women supported Kerry, versus 38% of married women. "

So, what does this say about women who marry? Or about those who do not?

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 07:49 PM

Hey, GUEST, don't be draggin' me 'er the Wes Ginny Slide Rule into this one... You started it an' you gonna have to take the heat... Sorry, but yer on yer own on this one...

Even the Wes Ginny Slide Rule knows not to use the "v" word... I mean, I doubt if it even knows what it means but knows nuff to stay away from it...

Now as fir me, I know when to stay away from it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Single Vagina Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST,Guest, Not Guest That Started The Tread
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 08:24 PM

Bobert,

Just the kind of response I expected from you. I got a good laugh. Thanks

Remember, "one size fits all"

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST,The Guest that started it
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:26 PM

Jesus, you people are pathetic. This place is SO easily offended by the word "vagina" but sexist joke threads about wives is A-OK.

I can't believe this is being censored. Did anyone read the opening post? The thread title was intended as an attention grabber sure, but did any of you read the reference from the Time article? Did you?

Why not censor the quote from the article too then, if you all find the word vagina so offensive.

BTW, can those of you who are so offended by the word vagina? It isn't a curse word. It isn't vile. It is simply a word that distinguishes a woman from a man, the same way use of the word penis does.

Are these banned words from use in thread titles now? Among adults, who constantly claim we are all mature enough to spew venomous, vile insults at one another as acceptable fare here, but put the word vagina in a thread title and the forum has a meltdown?

This is like a very bad junior high flashback.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:30 PM

GUEST,The Guest that started it

Your title was imprecise- I think you meant unmarried women voters, but from the title it was all voters that had a single vagina. Is that what you meant?

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:35 PM

My gawd. So let me see if I got the gist of this: The 'v' word thingy can get a Joey in it that will pull the lever a second time? What WILL they think of next? Diebold, eat yer heart out.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST, Not Guest That Started The Tread
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:39 PM

"Planned Parenthood helped sponsor a Vaginas Vote"

I guess Guest was right? Maybe censorship was a bit too extreme?

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:40 PM

beardedbruce, why not read the opening post to this thread and answer the question for yourself?

The use of the term "vagina voter" was taken verbatim from the quote in the opening post of this thread, from an article in Time magazine.

But apparently, our terribly sensitive Mudcatters need even Time magazine censored for them. We wouldn't want to offend people. Just keep this place safe for Martin Gibson, et al to spew their putrescence all over us instead of being able to handle actually seeing the word VAGINA in a thread title.

I feel so much better knowing that the word vagina deeply disturbs so many people here. I think katlaughing ought to start a letter writing campaign against Time magazine for having the audacity to print this:

"Women's groups are mustering their forces as well. Planned Parenthood helped sponsor a Vaginas Vote, Chicks Rock concert to raise money and awareness last month at the Apollo Theater in New York City."

I'm sure Catholic Joe Offer does find vaginas to be be obnoxious. But how he twisted the thread title to mean what HE says it means, is even more sinister.

But hey--if Joe Offer and the clones want to play principal at the junior high dance, to keep all of us adults from seeing the word vagina, they can go right ahead driving this place to another new low.

---

Oh, fuck off.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:42 PM

Maybe Catholic Joe Offer, being opposed to abortion, is also opposed to Planned Parenthood, AND to vaginas.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:45 PM

I prefer this thread title. The other was catchy, but now that I know about the 'v' thing and the Joey, I think we gotta be real careful about letting them loose.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:52 PM

Vagina, Saskatchewan is a place of some significance in Canadian elections, but I don't think it has any pull in the USA.

The word vagina is not in itself offensive nor is the word penis, but it is just downright silly to refer to women as "single vagina voters", because there is no one out there with a double or triple vagina. It's like saying "three-eared voters decide election?". It does not compute.

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:01 PM

Guest, I thought it was another way you were referring to women, similar to the "C" word.

As in: "Here's how they think the c___ts will vote on election day."

Subject: RE: BS: Single Female Voters Decide Election?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:28 PM

Now there's a 'c' word too? What's that have, a duckbilled platypus named Percival pull the lever? I think you guys are puttin' me on.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:43 PM

OK, so Google says it's a legitimate term. For further information, check out www.vday.org.
I changed the thread title back, although I'll be ornery and put the term in quotes.
V-Day, huh? As somebody above said, you learn something every day.

Still, I can't quite see what the anti-Catholic bigotry has to do with the issue at hand. I'm one of many Catholics who almost always votes for candidates who happen to be pro-choice. I don't think abortion is a good thing, but I don't think it's appropriate to try to stop it with legislation or police action. Maybe "vagina voters" would be wise not to write off the so-called "Catholic vote." -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:53 PM

Fair decision Joe.

From one of the legit sites:

"The 'V' in V-Day stands for Victory, Valentine and Vagina"

Now brucie, I ain't going to say what the "c" stands for. Maybe there is a C-day, but I would prefer not.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:55 PM

LH,

You're parsing the phrase wrong. I did too.

The collective noun is "vagina voters" (those who are strongly identified with their femininity, I think). Some of these are single, but not all of them. The set of VV's who are single is the crucial population under consideration.

See Joe's links for more about the whole V movement.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:58 PM

There is no one out there with a double or triple vagina...It does not compute.

Not true, LH. Check it out.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:02 PM

"beardedbruce, why not read the opening post to this thread and answer the question for yourself?"

It seems to imply women voters, not just single ones. I saw that in the body of the text, there is more reference to single voters, but as a title, the original one seemed ill-defined.

Still my opinion, re-reading the first post.




"63% of undecided voters, according to a recent TIME poll, are women."

"Single women comprise 43% of the U.S. female voting-age population"

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:32 PM

well, if I were in Joe Offer's place, I might NOT have changed it back. It doesn't have to be **offensive** to be stupid and tasteless. It is perfectly possible to make a point without resorting to shock value. There is a place for almost ANY word in the right context...even in Mudcat, but that particular use of 'vagina' was just plain tacky.

Good thing I don't get to vote, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:38 PM

Jaysus, Mark. Only on the 'cat would someone actually check that out.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:43 PM

I already knew the answer, brucie. It's one of those things you learn in medical school. I just wanted to give Little Hawk a reference, since he's generally quite careful with his facts. (Well, except when it comes to Mr. Shatner, that is...and I suppose that could be considered more opinion than fact.)

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Peace
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 12:07 AM

No, no, no. The Shatner thing is fact. 100%. Shatner is a Canadian icon--at least on the Mudcat. I read about it HERE, on the 'cat. 100%.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 01:55 AM

Egg-zak-el-lee, BillD!

I echo Joe's "Fuck off," too...

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 02:47 AM

The most unfortunate thing about the choice of title is that we are now involved in a debate about the semantics of it, rather than the important isssue of how single women will vote. On that issue, the person who started this thread could have expected to find a considerable amount of interest and support here. Why squander that good will with a foolish choice of title?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: open mike
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 03:12 AM

as for medical terminology, wouldn't
the proper plural be uteri! or uterii?!
sorry to squander this potential
polital thread to be sexual,
but as has been said, the
politiciansdo to us
what is usually
described in
sexual
terms..

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 04:10 AM

I had never heard the term before.

It doesn't offend me, but it is a peculiar way to refer to single women, as I don't imagine we'll ever see "Penis Polls" or the like.

What strange creatures humans are.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Jeanie
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 04:51 AM

The expression "Vagina Vote", and v-day originate from Eve Ensler, and her play "The Vagina Monologues", extremely successful worldwide, including the US and London's West End and featuring many famous and highly respected actresses. this page tells you what the "Vagina Vote" is all about.

- jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 08:00 AM

I've heard about people talking out of their arse, but this is ridculous...

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST,The Guest that started it
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 08:06 AM

"The most unfortunate thing about the choice of title is that we are now involved in a debate about the semantics of it, rather than the important isssue of how single women will vote."

Oh come on. It wasn't an unreasonable expectation that adults here would have the knowledge that jeanie above demonstrates about the international campaign for women known as V-Day. Or would have heard or read the term "Vagina Voters" or "Vagina Votes". Or of the play "The Vagina Monologues" which has been on tour nationally in the US this year as part of the "get out the women's vote" campaign to defeat Bush. If it is being discussed this casually in Time magazine, it is certainly in the zeitgeist.

What is pathetic is the overly puritanical reaction amongst the mostly male posters to the word in a thread title, and the automatic impulse to censor instead of understand by reading the original post. Or, god forbid, ask about the context, which has been lost by a bunch of Victorian prudes who apparently have been living in caves since the end of the 19th century and resurfaced to join Mudcat.

What was of interest in the Time article to me, was not that women in general might decide the election, but that single women who generally don't vote, might decide the election. That would be a first in the US.

But I guess when the "V" word is typed, all reason is thrown out the window, and the Mudcat Royals feel perfectly justified in making ad hominem attacks on the messenger, who chose to create a thread with a provocative title to rise above the usual political thread titles in order to generate some new energy and interest in the now very tired discussions between the Berry/Kush camps.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 09:05 AM

In re-reading this thread, I agree with you that the subject matter is worthy of discussion.

But for those of us who didn't recognize the term (now I do realize I'd heard it in The Vagina Monologues) there was bound to be some reaction to it.

It's a serious subject that you yourself chose along with a title which could hardly have gone uncommented upon.

Pointless to get whiney about it now when people did just that.


For any interested, see this website;

http://www.vday.org/contents/vday/press/media/0406041

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 09:34 AM

This whole discussion reminds me of something that happened a couple of decades ago, when i was looking after an art gallery. One of the pieces on show was a sculpture made of a series of rubber female breasts attached to a piece of wood. The sculptor is a man with a PhD in Philosophy, a poet published by an respected international publisher, married to a committed feminist. The sculptor had his own philosphical and artist reasons for creating the piece, a statement on the objectification of women. The man who bought the sculpture, on the other hand, had HIS own reasons, and they were basically to give himself the opportunity to have a good perve at all the breasts.

Is it fine for a woman with glasses and some letters after her name to "own" the vagina and make it part of a political statement. Everyone nods earnestly.

But when a male subheading editor in Time magazine uses the phrase, woman might feel like theyve been trivialised.

For me, its a personal word, no matter how much intellectually I know it should be "okay" for the word to be used or for myself to use it, it is a private word to be used with care.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 09:58 AM

From what I've read and heard, most of the undecided voters are in fact women, as I said earlier in the Kerry Wins First Debate thread.   Lots of women are against Bush but needed a reason to vote for Kerry. Kerry came across in the first debate as a credible leader with a coherent plan, and for the first time in the campaign made Bush, not himself the focus. So Kerry helped himself with quite a few of those undecided voters, but probably didn't clinch the sale, since they're waiting to see what he says on domestic issues also, particularly health care,---as opposed to Bush's travesty of reform.

To what extent is this an accurate picture of where we stand now?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:02 AM

While on the subject of semantics, I hardly think "vagina" is a private word -- Latinate, medical. There is an Anglo-Saxonism that has somewhat more private feel, and a few other words I can think of. "Penis" is another somewhat grim word, never did much for me. I have often thought there should be a contest for a couple of better words, the array in English is not very user-friendly.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:05 AM

yes, Peter t, but you don't have one...

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:09 AM

Obviously vagina is a fine word, that nobody should take offense at, especially given plays like "The Vagina Monologues". Now can we get to the actual subject of this absurdly titled thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:33 AM

Alanabit, you said it.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:53 AM

PEter T:

The world has generated so many terms for these two things/experiences that I don't see how we could expect a contest to improve on the tradition. Probably more words than any other concept in humandom, all languages combined.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:56 AM

I've heard of Voting With Your Heart, Guts, Wallet, and Fork, but not with THIS before.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Chris Green
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:58 AM

"Jesus, you people are pathetic. This place is SO easily offended by the word "vagina" but sexist joke threads about wives is A-OK."

I don't find the term "vagina" offensive in the least. Nor do I find the term "vagina voter" particularly offensive, merely pointless and another example of meaningless buzzwords that currently pollute the English language. Other examples include "collateral damage" (killing civilians) "friendly fire" (killing your own side) "war on terror" (war on selected terrorists, generally of dusky hue, not like those nice lads in Northern Ireland) and WMD (pejorative when applied to Middle Eastern countries, it bcomes the more benign and laudable "nuclear deterrent" when applied to the West). Just because a phrase is printed in the media does not mean that we all have to unthinkingly incorporate it into everyday speech!

Whew!

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 11:04 AM

But we've tried: What's a salty dog? and....we've visited the V-Monologues before.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Amos
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 11:05 AM

Let us pray that these voters are all sensitive enough to route the present incumbent cad out of orifice and send him on his way. Whatever they should be called.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 11:07 AM

Amos, you hit the nail on the head!

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 12:21 PM

A friend of mine, in Oregon, didn't know she had a double uterus until her first baby was born prematurely, and died. The examination showed that she had two uteruses and just one kidney. Mark Cohen, would that indicate an interrupted, or botched, twinning situation?

My friend went on later and bore two healthy children.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 01:58 PM

I think Joe made a god judgement when he restored the original title and added quotation marks. With the quote marks, it's clear that we're talking about unmarried female voters, not voters with one, and no more than one, female genital organ.

As far as the "real" subject of this discussion, it would of course be a good thing to encourage more voting by single women (as well as by single men, and by young people in general).

I'd surmise that the smaller percentage of single women than married women among active voters is just part of the overall picture that older people with greater economic commitments are more likely to vote than those who are young and/or unattached.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 02:20 PM

"I think Joe made a god judgement "...LOL...some typos are just TOO good!

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 03:08 PM

I hate to break it to you, but the female equivalent of penis is vulva (visible outer genitalia). Little children know about vulvas and penises from looking around, but have to be taught about vaginas.

What miffs me is that the derivation of the word Vagina is Sheath!

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 05:23 PM

Hell! at least the original poster used the word "Vagina"   :)

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 07:10 PM

". . . route the present incumbent cad out of orifice. . . ."

Well, he does claim to be "born again," so that makes twice. How about on November 2nd we make it a triple?

I think the actual "female equivalent of the penis," physiologically speaking, is the clitoris, right, Dr. Mark?

Philosophical and philological musings:   Ever notice that there are no simple verbs—like infinitives—in the English language to denote sexual intercourse that are not considered obscenities or are otherwise regarded as crude? "To swive" is about the only one I can think of that doesn't make "polite folks" gasp, but that's mainly because it's sort of archaic and most people don't know what you're talking about.

Apart from an impending election that may decide the future safety of the world and a volcano in my back yard about to erupt again, it's kind of a slow day here. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:25 PM

Well, when I was in the Army, the Men in Charge called women "cunts." When we word dress uniforms, we could often wear what they called a "cunt cap." We were told that the female soldiers were there for our pleasure.

I thought this was a demeaning way to talk about women, and I objected and didn't use the word - although I did tell my drill sergeant to "get fucked" once. I'll agree that "vagina" is a more polite word than "cunt." I made us a song with "vagina" and "penis" repeated over and over in it, and had my kids sing it when we did sex education, so they wouldn't be embarrased to use those words. so, so, I see nothing wrong in the word "vagina" itself.

But to call a woman a "vagina" isn't a whole lot different from calling her a "cunt." It's saying that the sexual receptacle is all there is to her. And if a woman uses the term, it isn't any better. It's like an African-American calling himself a "nigger." It's self-demeaning.

But if it's a term people use, then I guess it's appropriate to use it as a thread title - in quotes.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 11:05 PM

"Cunt Cap - soft hat (officially "Garrison Hat") worn in summer with Class A uniform (from its shape)"

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: dianavan
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 11:34 PM

The quotation marks definitely clarify the matter.

Its still very wierd to refer to women as vaginas. I wonder how men would react if I started a thread about single 'penis voters' or single 'testicle voters'? Just because its in the theater doesn't mean its automatically excepted terminology. Nothing to do with being prudish or P.C. Has more to do with appropriate use of language.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 12:34 AM

Man, the things you learn on the Net...double vaginas! And I did misinterpret the wording in the original title. I stand corrected. :-)

Single testicle voters are a much discriminated against minority, though, and I think that they deserve the full support of Mudcat Cafe.

Vagina. Penis. Vagina. Penis. Not offensive in the least, but of the two words I definitely find "vagina" more agreeable-sounding. "Penis" is a kind of cold-sounding word.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 03:04 AM

Don: Embryologically, yes. Physiologically, no.

Ebbie: I'd need more information in order to say for sure.

Little Hawk: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to make this a musical thread:

Hitler...has only got one ball
Goering...has two but very small
Himmler...has something sim'lar
And poor old Goebbels has no balls at all

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 06:12 AM

Is this thread really doomed to never deal with the actual topic of the thread---Kerry's chances with women?

In Thursday's debate, Kerry was talking about a "diversion" from worthwhile pursuits. He should read this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 07:40 AM

Yes Ron Davies, when people are claiming that the word vagina, when used in the phrase 'vagina voters' as it was coined by feminist groups, are claiming that the word is the equivalent of 'cunt' and their first impulse is to censor, I think you can rest assured we will NEVER discuss the issue. The only discussion will be what the vast majority of posters to this thread perceive as "the naughty, bad word."

Like I said, this thread, with these particular participants, is like a bad junior high flashback. We have "grown ups" participating here, not mature, thoughtful adults.

Does it surprise you that Mudcatters are so culturally clueless that they go ballistic when they see a feminist use of the word 'vagina' in a political context? I mean, the feminist movement has only been doing this sort of thing for about 30 years or so now. So how could we expect them to know about something like the single vagina voter, just because it is a feminist phrase used to describe a very specific demographic of voter?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 12:12 PM

So, if you really want to discuss the issue of women voters, why start out a thread with a title that's obviously bound to waylay the discussion.

The title was manipulative, a self-righteous attempt to prove the thread originator better than those who objected to the title. It's the same tactic the anti-abortion extremists use - they just want to prove themselves superior to others, that others are wrong and they're right. Therefore, they make no attempt to find common terms for communication. If they would work to find common ground, they might make headway and at least reduce the reasons that force women to choose to have abortions - but all they want to do is win.
Sand with the issue of women voters. If you really want to discuss the issue, find a commonly acceptable and understandable language for discussion.

But that was not the intent of this thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 12:20 PM

Joe deleted my first post when he was obviously going through his hang-up stage on this thread.

So, getting back on topic, what do the lips of these vagina voters say?

I didn't know this was going to be such a hairy topic.

---

Actually, no messages have been deleted from this thread, and Martin hadn't posted here until this message.
I suppose this message could be deleted, but oh, well....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Chris Green
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 12:21 PM

Guest, do you have a name? Or do you merely find it easier to make inflammatory comments under the cloak of anonymity?

Chris

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 12:29 PM

Are we supposed to be losing sleep over this? :-)

Regarding Kerry's chances with women, I think they are reasonable...but not near as good as Bill Clinton's were. Bush's chances with women are very slim indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 04:54 PM

Hmmm, Joe. Maybe it was another post. Or 20 others. Who knows?

This topic of vaginas sure can get bloody at times, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 11:19 PM

Isn't the correct term "Vagino-Americans?"

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 12:03 AM

Hey Martin--be sure to let your wife see what you've written on this thread, OK? It would be interesting to know her reactions to your contributions here. It's always worthwhile having lots of perspectives on an issue, don't you agree?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:49 AM

Joe, at the risk of cudgeling a defunct equine, I disagree with your characterization of the original thread title. I think, as the author said above, it was simply an attempt to create an eye-catching title that would stand out among the dozens of other politically-related threads on the forum. And it looks like it succeeded. (I agree, the words should have been in quotes. But the poster was simply quoting a term that was already in play in public discussion.) Unfortunately, it seems that most people didn't read the initial post at all.

It's still an interesting point. Reminds me of the "soccer mom" election...what was that, 1984? 1992? I don't know how the soccer moms voted. But I am encouraged by the fact that voter registration drives are getting an overwhelmingly positive reponse nationwide, especially from young voters, female voters, and voters from lower income levels.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 09:01 AM

Voter registration drives in 1984 and 1988, with Jesse Jackson running, did really well too, but it didn't translate into votes.

If Kerry/Edwards truly are going for the vagina voter, I don't think they'll succeed in getting them out to the polls on election day. They are ignoring the issues that are important to that demographic. Many of the single women both sides are supposedly courting, are single mothers. There are a lot of them, and they usually don't vote. They don't vote because neither party represents their interests.

You don't hear either party screaming for a national level child care agency, or nationalized child care do you? I have 29 year old niece who will soon be a single mom. Her infant day care will cost $1,200 per month. And she isn't poor, she earns $50,000. But when the cost of child care is that obscene, and she gets no social services from tax dollars as relief, you can easily understand why she votes Republican: they at least keep promising her better and more tax "relief". She can easily ignore the Republicans' anti-feminist demonizing of single mothers if they make it more worth her while financially. Demcrats demonize single mothers as welfare sluts just like the Republicans do.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 09:44 AM

Double Vaginas ? - aren't there enough decisons that a man has to make in this life already !

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: mg
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 03:51 PM

The cost of day care is way too high for many, if not most, working people. However, if someone could charge $1200/month for one infant, and $2400 for two, that is an opportunity for someone. And we should have some sort of socialized day care, utilizing people, who pass all sorts of screening tests, who receive public assistance. Likewise they should be availabe to work in eldercare sitautions.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 04:06 PM

Ron Davies, my wife supports me completely.

Why do you care? Is it really any of your business what she thinks?

Does your wife know what you do with that bar of soap in the shower? None of my business either, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: GUEST,VV
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 05:42 PM

Did some surfing and come up with a few descriptions of the single female voter demographic:

"At one table, hip young women line up for free manicures -- perfectly polished nails in "peace pink" -- before registering to vote.

At another, they're choosing from displays of rose-colored lingerie proclaiming "Give Bush the Pink Slip," or thongs with political slogans too sizzling to make a family newspaper, or upscale silver jewelry with delicate "vote" insignias.

And through it all, the frenetic scene at the "Women's Voices, Women Vote" gathering in San Francisco -- which drew hundreds of women to Fort Mason this past week -- provided a preview of what organizers said could well become the hottest trend in election year 2004: passionate efforts by political parties to woo the single girl into the voting booth."
                                  --San Francisco Chronicle


"First there were the soccer moms who gave Bill Clinton a boost in 1996. Then came the security moms who turned out for the GOP in 2002. This year the most desperately sought female voters don't have a catchy title, but some Democrats are convinced that they could help swing the election. They're America's 46 million unmarried women -- a group that ranges from never-marrieds just out of college to single mothers, middle-aged divorcées, and widows. Despite their differences, these women have two things in common: deep economic insecurity and a tendency to turn out for Democrats when they vote -- by a 30-percentage-point margin in some polls.

But turning apathetic unmarrieds into this year's political It Girls will involve one extreme makeover. Single women tend to be poorer, are more likely to be members of a minority, and juggle complicated work and family schedules -- all of which makes it hard to get them to the polls. And politics isn't a big factor in their lives. Participants in Greenberg's focus groups said they have little time to read up on candidates and issues and don't think politicians are likely to improve their circumstances. "Most of these women haven't really fared better under one party than the other," says Susan A. MacManus, a political scientist at the University of South Florida in Tampa."

                                  --Business Week

"Women have overtaken NASCAR dads and soccer moms as the most sought-after group of potential voters in November's presidential election, representing a potential base of millions of voters looking for change.

"We're talking about 22 million women who did not vote in 2000, in a population that voted Democratic by a 30-point margin in 2000, and seems likely from what the polls tell us to do so again in 2004."

Likewise, a poll released by the progressive organization EMILY'S List said that women swing voters -- those who don't consistently vote according to party affiliation -- constitute 30 percent of women voters and express greater dissatisfaction with the way things are going than either men or the population at large."

                                  --UPI

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 12:11 AM

Martin--

It's just that the more views you can get of a topic, the better.   And it's even remotely possible that she does not agree with you on this one. And on this particular issue. pardon me for saying it, but her views might even be more interesting than yours, hard as that might be to imagine.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 01:59 PM

Marty, you say your wife supports you completely? Which is to say, you don't work, right?

I wondered why you have so much time to spend on Mudcat. Now we know.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 04:35 PM

Actually Don, you are wrong about that as you are many things. Or you read into most everything incorrectly.

My wife and I both make fine livings and live quite comfortably.

I don't feel I spend a lot of time here. You do probably because you are so uncomfortable with so much I have to say.

that's been quite easy to determine.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Oct 04 - 06:47 PM

I wonder about Martin's wife and her opinions as well. In fact, I was quite blunt about that on another thread. He actually PM'd me and THREATENED to tell Joe which he actually did. Be careful or he might report you and create alot of work for Joe.

Martin's a piece of work. I can't even imagine what his family must endure.

d

P.S. Joe, delete this if you must but also delete every other objectionable remark by Martin, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Oct 04 - 04:50 PM

dianavan,some reliable folks here have told me why you are so bitter and so alone in life.

Joe Offer deleted your posts like he will do every time you get out of hand. You are being very carefully watched.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 12:01 PM

Martin--

As you may have noticed, you are not immune to having posts deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 12:13 PM

Oh I know that very much, Ron.

So what?

I may call someone an extremely clever insult, but have never stooped so low to ridicule someone's wife, children, and family if they are identified as anything other than an anonomous Guest. If I have, my apologies.

I feel there has to be a line drawn.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Chris Green
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 01:02 PM

Surely it's possible to have a debate, discussion or even argument about something without resorting to personal attacks? This thread is taking on the aura of a playground. "Well, he started it..." "DID NOT!" "DID TOO!" Yawn....

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 02:05 PM

Martin -

Please accept my apology. I did not intend to ridicule your wife or your kids. In fact, I do not know how you got this idea. If anything, I pity them.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 02:23 PM

Apology is certainly not accepted, at least not this moment, because it was completely insincere as per your last three words.

That, and the ones that I pointed out your comments to via PM and saw your rant know exactly how I got this idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Chris Green
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 03:00 PM

Oh, pack it in, for fucks sake! Can't you keep this shit for the PMs?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 03:04 PM

For fucks sake?

What the fuck?

Huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Single 'Vagina Voters' Decide Election?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Oct 04 - 10:36 PM

"I may call someone a very clever insult". Yes indeed. Classic "Martin". Too bad this thread, like so many others, got hijacked. Despite the extremely unfortunate title, it could have been a subject worth discussing.

Subject: Penus Pundits want equal Penetration
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 12 Oct 04 - 11:20 AM

In their driving need for a point of view Penus Pundits seek to be heard.

"Vagina Voters may have the real power but that doesnt mean we're all flat." said the man on the street.

"Its not that we lack staying power, just that we've already commited all our energies and can't very well turn now." Mayor of Viagra county.

Most vagina voters however remain unimpressed: Its not the size of the issues that deter us but the leader's sincerety. We've heard all the bravado before -- its our intelligence and hearts that will determine what we do.