BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone

Subject: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 02:18 AM

For anyone who wants to read it, here is a link! Kerry is very tough on Bush in this one!

interview

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 02:39 AM

What do you think of Karl Rove? Is he an evil genius?

I don't know him. I've met him once. I'll tell you November 3rd.

What do you think of the Vote for Change concerts that Bruce Springsteen organized?

I haven't been able to go. I'm jealous of everybody who is. It's separate from us -- they've done it by themselves. But I'm obviously elated. His music has been the theme song of our campaign from Day One. To have him out there is both a privilege and exciting. I hope it has an impact on the outcome.

Who are your favorite rock & roll artists?

Oh, gosh. I'm, you know, a huge Rolling Stones fan; Beatles fan. One of the most cherished photographs in my life is a picture of me with John Lennon -- who I met back in 1971 at an anti-war rally. But I love a lot of different performers.

Do you have a favorite Beatles song -- or Stones song?

I love "Satisfaction" and "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and "Brown Sugar." I love "Imagine" and "Yesterday."

You're a greatest-hits kind of guy.

My favorite album is Abbey Road. I love "Hey Jude." I also like folk music. I like some classical. I love guitar. Oh, God. I mean, you know -- Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Buffett . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 03:05 AM

And here's my favorite question and answer: "Finally, if you were to look back over eight years of a Kerry presidency, what would you hope would be said about it?"

"That it always told the truth to the American people, that it always fought for average folks. And that we raised the quality of life in America and made America safer. I want to be the president who gets health care done for Americans. I want to be the president who helps to fix our schools and end this separate-and-unequal school system we have in America. And I want to be the president who re-establishes America's reputation in the world -- which is part of making us safer. There's a huge opportunity here to really lift our country up, and that's what I want to do."

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 08:09 AM

You listening there, you reactionaries? Get ready to blow a gasket -- there's going to be a warm and breathing Human Being in the White House for Christmas. And his initials are JFK...


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 10:19 AM

This interview gives you a good view into why Kerry is a better manager, a more experienced diplomat, a better politician and a wiser human being than George Bush.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 01:22 PM

Thanks for posting the links, guys.

I know a lot of people keep saying that there is no difference between Kerry and Bush, but anyone who actually believes it either hasn't been listening, lacks sufficient brain cells to grasp the situation, or has been living in a coal mine for the past few years.

Kerry. Works for me. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 02:48 PM

Yes there is a difference. Kerry likes to listen to Rap an Hip Hip:

Kerry told MTV: "I'm fascinated by rap and by hip-hop. I think that there's a lot of poetry in it. There's a lot of anger, a lot of social energy in it.
Kerry said America's leaders disregard rap music at their peril, telling MTV, "I think you better listen to it pretty carefully because it's important.... I'm still listening, because I know that it's a reflection of the street and it's a reflection of life. And I understand all that."
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/30/232933.shtml

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 03:15 PM

Yes, Old Guy. And Kerry is right about all that.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 05:03 PM

Actually, OG, if you were precise and cared for the truth you would notice that he doesn't say he "likes to listen" to it. He said he thinks its important, and why, and that he thinks one had "better listen to it".

An important and intelligent distinction, IMHO.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 06:41 PM

I guess Old Guy is like his man, Bush, and doesn't do nuance. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 09:48 PM

Amos:

I read "I'm fascinated" and "I'm still listening"

I guess if he is is facinated by it and he is listening to it he must like it and listen to it.

I can't see him and THK tooling along in the "family's" Landrover with P Diddy blasting.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 09:56 PM

Amos,

"Get ready to blow a gasket -- there's going to be a warm and breathing Human Being in the White House for Christmas. "


Last I checked, the person ELECTED on Nov. 2nd does not take office until January. So, you have stated that GWBush is a warm and breathing Human Being.

Unless of course you are talking about Laura...

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 11:13 PM

Right you are, BB -- delete Christmas and insert Easter.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: beardedbruce
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 11:23 PM

Amos,

I shall treasure this forever. Thank you! My life is complete!

"Right you are, BB "

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 01:17 AM

Old Guy,

I will add to the festivities by saying you are right too. It is unlikely that Kerry makes rap a major part of his life. But he didn't claim to. He just says he listens to it and is fascinated by it. (Not the same thing as "liking" it, by the way; I am one of those people who can often be fascinated by a work of art I find ugly)

Even if Kerry did mean he likes rap, this is not so farfetched, nor does it mean he gets jiggy on a daily basis. I like classical music and listen to it. I like Rock music and listen to it. I like rap and listen to it. (I can still sing "The Message" and "You be Illin'" all these years later.) But about 80% of the time I listen to folk music.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 04:02 PM

Perhaps we should declare candidates acceptable or not based on their aesthetic tastes? Hmmmm? Maybe a Consitutional amendment?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Peace
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:24 PM

People who do not listen to enough 'rap' (which incidentally I do not like) are depriving themselves of 'seeing' where certain segments of our society are 'at' today. The so-called protest songs of the 1960s didn't appeal to the older generation then; the protest songs of the 2000s seem not to appeal to the older generation, either. But, when I am checking for a pulse, it's a good thing to try the lotsa place the pulse can be found. Rap is one of those places.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Peace
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:28 PM

"it's a good thing to try the lotsa place the pulse can be found"

Hey, my first 'rap' line. Cool, man, cool.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 10:19 PM

According to Hunter Thompson, Bush doesn't like any kind of music.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 11:14 PM

Nerd:

At last we half agree but Kerry said the was still listening.

The point I wanted to raise is that Kerry is on all sides of all issues on order to get more votes.

In this case he is pandering (I call it sucking ass or kissing ass) to younger people who might like Rap and Hip Hop.

I think the possibility of Kerry, THK and or the likes of Martha Stewart of giving a rat's ass about rap and Hip Hop are 0 or less.

I think Bush likes Texas swing
"Wearing black slacks and a black shirt, the Russian leader became the first foreign leader to visit Bush's Prairie Chapel ranch.

A Marine One helicopter brought Putin and his wife to a helipad located on the ranch. Stepping off the chopper, Mrs. Putin offered a yellow rose to Mrs. Bush.

Then they all climbed into the truck for the short drive to the main house and nearby guest house where the Putins were staying overnight on the 1,600-acre (647-hectare) ranch.

"I still know how to drive," said Bush, who is more accustomed to being driven around in a limousine.

He said he wanted to show Putin some sights on his ranch.

"We're going to take a tour. I want to show him some of my favorite spots on the ranch," Bush said, who had shed his dark Washington suits for faded blue jeans, cowboy boots and a rugged gray jacket.

A big party for 28 people was in the planning for the evening. The dinner menu included such Texas favorites as mesquite-smoked peppered beef tenderloin, southern fried catfish, fire-roasted potatoes with poblano peppers, old-fashioned green beans, and pecan pie.

The guest list included famed pianist Van Cliburn, who once won a piano competition in Moscow and lives in Fort Worth. Golfer Ben Crenshaw was also attending.

The Ranch Hands Band, a Texas swing band, would also provide some of the entertainment."
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5546-3.cfm

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 11:24 PM

But did he get his piccure on the cover?

Amos, Amos, Amos,

Even if Kerry wins the 52% he will need to unsteal the election, he won't be in the White House until January, so Christmas is out! Sorry, pal, but that's the way it works...

Now, I hate to break it *again* to you folks but Diebold says "No, no, no" and they mean it. Kerry will most likely recieve more votes but there won't be too many folks who will know it... It will take 51% to 52% to overcome the corruption that the Bushites have installed. That, in this election, is not probable...

I hate to tell ya but it's 4 more years... But go vote anyway... Heck, it still is *supposed* to be a democracy...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Peace
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 11:26 PM

JtS:

Loved the interview. Thanks for posting the link. Makes me see Kerry in a different light.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 12:17 AM

Old Guy - But did Bush listen? Did he dance? Can he dance?

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 01:22 AM

I know there's fraud at work, Bobert, I know. But I think we can fight it, if good-hearted and clear-seeing folks band together.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 01:53 AM

You are welcome Brucie

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 02:32 AM

D:

Can he play Pinochle? read Swahili? recite Shakespeare?

At least he can entertain the leader of the largest country in the world   and strike up a positive relationship, one of the things Kerry says he can't do.

Maybe Kerry could invite Pooty-Poot over to dance and listen to some rap. (after the UN approves it)


Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 02:38 AM

OG:

LOL!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 04:04 AM

Old Guy,

My point is you don't know shit about Kerry or his musical taste but you say you do. You claim he will say anything to get elected when the fact is you will say anything to put him down. Why do you think you know if he listens to rap or not? You have no idea what Kerry listens to, you're just Bloviating for the sake of seeing your words on the screen.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 02:28 PM

Nerd:

I am citing Kerry's own words. Read my previous posts.

Bust my chops.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 03:17 PM

No you are not, OG -- you took his words, altered their import and context and extrapolated from the twisted version. Then you built a platform on the twisted extrapolation.

But perhaps you can't see that sequence. To me it seems fairly typical of the kind of bullheaded alterations found in the dusty mounths of Republicans all over the country.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 03:41 PM

Amos:

No I can't see that at all. Please interpret Kerry's words for me.

I am putting the most emphasis on the words 'fascinated', meaning to me that he likes it so much that he cant get it out of his mind, and 'still listening' which means to me that he listens to it and has not stopped listening to it.

I do not consider a liberal elitist as being prone to liking or listening to Rap and Hip Hop so I am further concluding that he is being disingenuous merely for the sake of gaining more votes from younger people who might like Rap and Hip Hop.

Please tell me what his comments about Rap and Hip Hop meant and why he said them.

Old Guy - Sole member of the OG debating team. Unless Brucie, Bobert and Nerd want to join.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 03:50 PM

Well you are adding and twisting, just as I said.

Fascinated means focussing the attention on closely, but it does not mean liking; for example, I am sure a lot of scientists are "fascinated" by the AIDS virus, because ti is a strange phenomenon. I am fascinated by the leading edge developments I can discover about nanotechnology. I would suggest to you that Kerry is fascinated by rap because he sees it as a symptom of a strong vein of human discontent in our society...EXACTLY as he said in his own explanation. It doesn't make sense to me at all that you should deliberately want to alter someone's ideas in order to hate them. Talk about phony, how phony is that?

As for "sucking up to poeple" Bush's claim to be a Texan, when he was raised in Greenwich, Connecticut and Kennebunkport, is a little bit disingenuous also, wouldn't you say? Personally, I suspect he uses that good ole boy twang to cover up the fact that he is not very sharp.

A

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Reader
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 05:47 PM

Get of Amos case you buncha dumbells that can't read - he didn't say WHICH Christmas he was talkin' 'bout now did he?????

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 11:27 PM

Amos:

Adding what? I am breaking it down to the key words. You are saying the key words are something else to justify your purpose.

How the hell do you focus in on a genre of music without listening to it? Read the jackets? Watch the videos with the volume turned down? That would be like studying art with you eyes closed. Get real.

I think anybody that lives in Texas can legally claim to be a Texan and speak with a twang. How is that sucking up? Jesus, you are warped. Take a stiff drink and loosen up. There is nobody sneaking up behind you with a knife.

Where does Kerry and his moneybags wife live? They have 5 mansions all
around the US. What is THK's first language? I still haven't figured that out but when she shoots of some alienating remark, (like Kerry accuses Bush of doing) She claims English is not her first language.

You still haven't defined Kerry's words and explained why he said them.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 11:35 PM

Yes I have, OG. I have made it clear why he said what he said and how you chose to alter it. You perisst in your altering, and mouthing off about it as though I had said nothing at all.

We don't seem to be communicating here, and it not for lack of effort on my part.

Legally? Sure. He's entitled. He owns a Texas ranch. The fact that he is a smarmy punk from Greenwich has nothing to do with it.

Are you suiggesting we should judge people based ontheir languages? NExt thing you know you'll be suggesting an "EQUAL (but separate) color bar and a "barefoot and pregnant" amendment to the Constitution.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 11:47 PM

Old Guy - Lets put it this way. If I wanted to be the leader of a country I would want to know what the young folks were thinking. What better way than to listen to the lyrics of their popular tunes. It doesn't mean that I would like what I hear. It just means I'm paying attention.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 12:34 AM

D:

Would that men you have to listen to the music or just claim you listen to the music? Would that men you would have to claim you are fascinated by the music when in actuality you care nothing about the music?

The first time one of these limousine liberals heard:

I wake you up in the morning baby with a kick in the tit I treat you like shit!
You love it
Smack you right in the face now baby, just to show you I care
And then I kick you pregnant ass right down the stairs
Slap slap slap
U around
Slap slap slap
U around
Slap slap slap
U around
All day.. All day,
every fucking day I pay the doctor bills baby,
so I'll break what I want I spend all my money in a fucking restaurant
I let you live in my house now woman,
I take you out on the town I want some payback now woman,
I get to slap you around
Slap slap slap
U around
Slap slap slap
U around
Slap slap slap
U around

they would be very upset.

No, I don't think they are fascinated by it and they are not still listening to it. I would think they are horrified by it and they never wan to hear it again.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 01:27 AM

Old Guy,

in case you can REALLY be as thick as you are pretending, here is what you are adding:

"I do not consider a liberal elitist as being prone to liking or listening to Rap and Hip Hop so I am further concluding..."

My point is you're just making that up. You don't know if he listens to rap or not. He says he does, that much I got. You say he doesn't. And your evidence? "Well, hje's a liberal elitist by definition, so it is impossible for him to listen to rap."

You are, quite simply, full of shit.

YOU have defined him as a "liberal elitist." He is not. He is fairly liberal, but then so am I. YOU might even call me a "Liberal elitist." And I DO listen to rap and hip-hop. In fact, last year a Rap artist who is a friend of mine asked me to write the liner notes for a hip-hop/punk fusion project he produced. So on what grounds do you find it so unlikely that Kerry listens to it? And why do you pretend you actually know what he listens to when you don't?

Just because, as I said before, you'll say anything at all, make any deeply stupid and dishonest claim, in order to put Kerry down. You aren't fooling anyone, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 02:04 AM

Nerd:

I am sorry for considering anything or drawing a conclusion. Am I making you jealous of the fact that I can actually do such a thing?

I will put my considerations and conclusions on hold until such time that you mature enough to do the same.

I am not instructing anybody here to think a particular way or to adopt my ideas. I am just stating them. Some will agree, some won't and some will go into a frenzy hurling accusations.

You are in the hurling category. You can't merely say I disagree, here is what I think and why. You have to throw bombs at anybody that disagrees with you. Perhaps it is because you have such a weak case that you have to over-react to reinforce it.

My ass is asbestos and it is immune to your immature fire bomb insults.

The stupid, dishonest claims to put down the opponent is coming from your pseudo rap loving candidate. You have fallen prey to his disingenuous pandering.

Go vote fo tha money bag mofo, see where it gets yo.

Old guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 02:06 AM

You aren't drawing a conclusion. You're making shit up. There is a difference, Old Guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:11 AM

Nerd:

So you are concluding that I am making shit up? I think you made that shit up and I ain't going for it. You have to do better.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:41 AM

"Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man's brain
But he can't be blamed
He's only a pawn in their game."

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 10:21 AM

Pawn? Not hardly.

He's a knowing, willing & enthusiastic participant.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 10:58 AM

Old Guy:

Your ad hominem phrases actually do you an injustice, because they cover up your certain intelligence and commitment with the veneer of a redneck temperament and a reactionary, childish inability to articulate thoughts.

You are further doing Mister Kerry a gross disservice, to your shame, because you are insulting someone who actually is an honorable man, although one embroiled in a very difficult battle. He is an articulate, caring and insightful human being. He is far better at rubbing two thoughts together and arriving at an intelligent conclusion than either you or your Looney-Boy candidate.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 12:01 PM

Amos:

Yeah, Kerry can rub two thoughts together until the two thoughts are one. He is for and against abortion, for and against war, supporting the troops, seeking permission form the UN and not asking before he takes action.

Weak minded people see the half of his position that agrees with them. The other half see the other half of his position that makes them feel good.

Strong minded people see both sides an realize there is a conflict. They conclude that anyone who is for and against everything is neither for or against anything. Then they look around for someone who has one position on the issues and they select him.

I visualize Kerry driving down a road and coming to a fork. He says I am going to turn left and and I am going to turn right. Wham! He runs off the road in the middle of the fork. He says "I actually turned right before I turned left" "Maybe I should have asked the UN which way to turn" "I would never ask the UN which way to turn".

Have it your way Amos. How about this: "I am for and against Kerry"
or "I actually voted for Bush before I voted against him"
"Maybe I should ask the UN which way to vote"

That would be in accordance with your intellectual giant candidate's one size fits all positions.


Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 12:17 PM

Huh, Old Guy? John Kerry listens to GWAR, now? O need to read this article!

---lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 12:49 PM

OG:

I think you are badly mistaken, pal.

And I think I know where you got this line. It was promulgated by your auto-think RNC as the Talking Point for the Day about Kerry, dictated from the Inner Circle to be parroted by all concerned.

And it is simply inaccurate.

It is accurate to say that Kerry sometimes changes his mind in the light of new information, as appropriate.

You can twist it any way you like. All you are doing is making smoke and clouding the straight issues. ohn Everett Millais

He doesn't like abortion. But he likes even less the notion that the government should interfere with individual freedoms on a moral or religious basis. That isn't flipflopping, it is intelligent discrimination. All these flipflop charges are just clouds of bushwah smoke.

Perhaps the difference is not clear to you.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 12:59 PM

I happen to be quoting lyrics from Bob Dylan. Who is very intelligent, and his words are very RELEVANT right now. Rattling off a bunch of numbers isn't going to impress anyone. Now when Bill Clinton played the Sax, that was somethin' boy...

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 01:07 PM

Please delete the reference to John Everett Millais, above. It is an accident and irrelevant to this thread.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 01:23 PM

Old Guy said Strong minded people see both sides an realize there is a conflict. They conclude that anyone who is for and against everything is neither for or against anything. Then they look around for someone who has one position on the issues and they select him.

You'd better hope for many more people in the world who can see both sides of issues and made intelligent choices based on what they see. Like your doctors, for example. It's the shades of gray that are going to save your sorry ass if you ever get sick, OG. "For and against" something is your reductive way of concluding that someone who has mixed feelings on a topic, who can state an arguement for and against and weigh the issues and make a decision on one side based on the best probable outcome is "one size fits all." Yeah, right. Dubya only sees in black and white, and doesn't have a clue on many issues beyond having made up his mind based on party ideolgy and then not budging from that position. You don't need a doctor or a government official who thinks like that.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 01:43 PM

SRS:

I agree with you and I do not agree with you. Therefore all who agree with you should have a favorable impression of me.

All who disagree with you will also have a favorable impression of me because I took an exception.

Now that is truly a win/win situation.

Amos:

No I can't see the distinction. Yes is yes and no is no, Kerry trys to blur his positions so they suit everybody. Is there such thing as 3/4 yes or 1/4 no?

Should we redefine what the words "for" and "against" mean so as to give credence to your candidate's dual positions?

How about an Amos dictionary?

Get another cup of coffee and snap out of it.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 01:51 PM

"One more cup of coffee for the road, one more cup of coffee before (we) go to the valley below"

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 02:08 PM

Old Guy, just because I'm really fucking curious, and because as far as I know you're the only other person (the other being me) who has quoted GWAR in Mudcat history: what was the GWAR quote supposed to prove?

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 02:17 PM

Rex:

Just in case someone here is not familiar with the Rap Genre, it serves as an example of what Kerry claims to be facinated by and is still listening to.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 02:41 PM

Aw, and here I though GWAR had a senior citizens as a fan. Dammit! That was a truly entertaining image.

And if Kerry is listening to GWAR, he's not listening to rap Well, "The Song of Words" was sung in a "rap" style, as was "Slaughterama and "Think You Oughta Know This," and "Salaminizer" is sort of a parody of NWA's "Gangsta Gangsta." But it would be hard to describe what a bunch of middle-aged guys dressed up like well-endowed comic book characters playing, basically, metal, as "rap." And "Slap U Around" isn't even close; They did that in a cheesy (sorry LH), cow-bell-y hair metal style. Very funny song, if you understand the context, which I doubt you do.

Where did you get the idea "Slap U Around" was a rap song, anyways?

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:12 PM

Kerry is curious and open minded.

Bush is a brain damaged hillbilly wanabe who plays on the emotions of the gulible and counts on the silence of the greedy and selfish.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:27 PM

Rex:

I am not an aficionasdo of Rap / Hip Hop or whatever those lyrics are. I assume that it is the same genre that Kerry says he is facinated by and still listens to. I could be mistaken

He did not name any of his favorite artists.

Maybe you could clarify things a little and give is some lyrics to the music that you think Kerry was referring to.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:47 PM

Jack:

Are you amongst the gullible or the greedy and selfish?
You are certainly not amongst the curious and open minded.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:50 PM

"Are you amongst the gullible or the greedy and selfish?"

No I am not, and in case you are wondering. You are among the gullible.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 03:51 PM

Okay, let me put it this way, Old Guy. To "draw a conclusion" that is true, in a logical sense, requires that you begin with premises that are true. You simply made up one of your premises: liberal whites from the northeast do not listen to rap. That premise is not true.

In fact, you probably don't know that one of the best-known rap groups in America since the 1980s has been made up entirely of what you would call "liberal elitists." (Since, you obviously know nothing about hip hop or rap, I refer to the Beastie Boys, whom I knew slightly in High School).

No, you just made shit up, Old Guy. And I did not make THAT up. You like your sophistry and your intellectual masturbation, but your words are empty because you make up many of your premises and use them to draw faulty conclusions.

As Amos says, it's a sad waste.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 04:20 PM

Old Guy, as I told you, it's a song by GWAR, from their wonderful album "This Toilet Earth." Here is a link to those same lyrics. Check out GWAR's site. Not rap. Big hulking rubber monsters with guitars. Trust me on this. I've been listening to them since I was a kid. Did you just search through a list of "offensive" lyrics until you found one you "liked?" (Btw, "Baby Dick Fuck," "Rock 'n' Roll Never Felt So Good," or "Babyraper" would've been much more offensive GWAR songs) Why would you assume that these were "rap" lyrics? Do rappers (let's just say it, you're talking about black people) have a monopoly on offensive lyrics?

As for why you have all of these weird misconceptions about what "rap" is, and view it so negatively... well, Nerd's covering that pretty well, so I'll shut up. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 04:40 PM

Rex:

Actually I was looking to an Eminem piece about kicking a pregnant woman to death but all I could find was the GWAR thing. I am unaware of what they look like.

I am not going to say anything negative about Rap / Hip Hop or what ever Genre you think Kerry was referring to. I will let each individual evaluate it on their own. Let the lyrics speak for the Genre.

And I am not taking your black bait either.

Are you assuming I am white? Naughty Naughty. That would be racist.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 05:01 PM

You wanted some Rap lyrics that Kerry might endorse? Here's one that celebrates "all lifestyles" except drug use:

"Goto goto goto goto
Don't mess with crack or the baking soda
Whether in the high rise where you live like Rhoda
Or in the shack and you live like Yoda
Once again it's on like a brand new morn
Beatsie Beatsie Boys here to keep you all warm
All you spazzes and you freaks
Go and do your thing 'cause you're unique
If it don't hurt nobody else than
Don't be afraid to be yourself and
Special dedication and so on
to all lifestyles, sizes, shapes and forms"

Another similar one from the Beasties:

"Brooklyn, Bronx, Queens and Staten
From the Battery to the top of Manhattan
Asian, Middle-Eastern and Latin
Black, White, New York you make it happen

Shout out the South Bronx where my mom hails from
Right next to High Bridge across from Harlem
To the Grand Concourse where my mom and dad met
Before they moved on down to the Upper West
I see you're still strong after all that's gone on
Life long we dedicate this song
Just a little something to show some respect
To the city that blends and mends and tests

Since 911 we're still livin'
And lovin' life we've been given
Ain't nothing gonna take that away from us
Were lookin' pretty and gritty 'cause in the city we trust

Dear New York I know a lot has changed
2 towers down but you're still in the game
Home to many rejecting no one
Accepting peoples of all places, wherever they're from"

And here's some directly addressing George W. Bush:

"You build more bombs as you get more bold
As your mid-life crisis war unfolds
All you wanna do is take control
Now put that Axis of Evil bullshit on hold."

Yes, I can easily see Kerry grooving to the Beasties!

Wyclef Jean of the Fugees has argued against the kinds of abuses US law enforcement makes in "Diallo":

"Have you ever been held
against your will?
Taken to a dark place
where not even scientists can reveal?
So what is for Ceasar
let it be for Ceasar
Cause we don't want no peace
We want equal rights and justice.. for

Diallo, Diallo - similar to Steven Biko
Diallo, Diallo - you tell me that the murder was an error
Diallo, Diallo - but every man will be judged
Diallo, Diallo - according to his words."

Certainly, Kerry's arguments that you'd better listen to and be aware of this kind of sentiment are valid. And incidentally, when Howard Dean was asked what his favorite song was during one of the debates, it was a Wyclef Jean song! So we know Dean listens to rap.

Anyway, Old Guy, the point is that there is plenty of valid and important political and social commentary in rap, and I don't doubt that Kerry knows a heck of a lot more about it than you do.

But as always, you wear your ignorance as a badge of honor.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 05:35 PM

But you were trying to pass off GWAR lyrics as Eminem lyrics, Old Guy, and you continue to misrepresent them as "rap" lyrics even though I've corrected you. Three times, or four, including this. With proof that they're not rap lyrics, even. Your initial ignorance is understandible; you are, by your own admission, and elderly man, and newfangled things like "rap" and "rock and roll" are probably... confusing. You found lyrics about kicking pregnant women, and you thought about Bill O'Reilly, and you got momentarily hungry for falafel, and then you thought "Yup, this is that rippity-rap music the negroes love! Who else would sing of such horrible things?" But like I said, I've corrected you four times. If your initial mistake was just incredible ignorance/laziness, fine. I forgive you. But, fuck, are you really so dense that you'll stubbornly cling to a falsehood even after you've been shown the truth? Ah, but you are a Bush man, aren't you.

And click my link, stupid.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 05:56 PM

Rex:

So you are the Einstein of whatever kind of music you are talikng about but you seem to be keeping your definitions a secret.

You are troling for someone to put down you or the music you won't name or define.

I am not taking the bait. I will let your statements define you and the music define itself.

The only thing I have understood so far is that GWAR is not Rap or Hip Hop.

I think your agenda is to prove that older people don't know jack shit about your music. Is that a correct assumption?

And again, If my assumption about what kind of music I thought Kerry was referring to, what kind of music do you think he was referring to?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 06:51 PM

What species of masochism and futility is it that compels you folks into engaging this OG idiot over and over? Just curious.

On a dead man's door you can knock forever.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 06:59 PM

Well posed, Greg. He keeps presenting the face of a sentient Terran.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:35 PM

Amos:

Where the hell have you been? Getting a venom transfusion?

Getting your blinders re-fitted?

What kind of music do you think Kerry was referring to and why was he mentioning it at all?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 08:07 PM

Heh. "OG." No, my "agenda" is to show (as if people didn't already know) that you are spouting off on subjects that you know absolutely nothing about, and spreading misinformation in an effort to discredit John Kerry. I don't care that you're old, and I REEEEEALLY don't care what you say about fucking Kerry. But when you attempt to demonise a style of music that you know nothing about, a style of music that just happens to have been created by and for the most part performed by an ethnic minority, the best of which is more meaningful, and more entertaining than anything you could ever dream of producing yourself, well... that bothers me, especially coming from someone like you.

That you happened to stumble into one of the few folk-music fans that can actually recite "Slap U Around" from memory is just your bad luck.

And damned good point, Greg. But do you know how few chances I get to discuss GWAR in life, let alone on a folk music forum? But I'm done, I promise.

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 08:45 PM

Rex:

Evidently you are unable to define GWAR music. I am not aware if they are a minority. I found the lyrics on the net. No pictures or description. Nor was there any description of the genre.

I could have been mistaken in assuming that it was rap music because I am not that familiar with it. You say it is not rap or hip hop but you can't say what it is. I attempted to give an example of what I thought rap music was for anybody that did not have any idea.

I am not attemptint to demonise what ever style it is. The lyrics speaks for the music.

Your racial accusations are totaly baseless. Neither of us knows if the other is black or white. I still don't the ethnicity of GWAR nor have I attempted to find out.

And you still can't answer the question about Kerry.

Do you think he is really as interested as he says he is in Rap or Hip Hop and do you think he is still listening to it?

And also If he was being interviewed by Rolling stone Magazine, why wouldn't he mention the Rap Hip Hop genre as being one that he was facinated by and still listening to?

My opinion, even if it pisses you off it is still my opinion and I am entitled to it amd I am entitled to state it publicly, is that Kerry only made the statement in a place where he thought it would win him some votes amongst the younger generation without loosing too many votes from others. I have even forgotten the place. It is a process known as pandering.

And I don't believe that liberal elitists care for Rap or Hip Hop music.

State your opinion and your beliefs but don't try to deny me mine.

You can call me names and hurl accusations too but your civility will define your credibility.

All Knowing Nerd:

You haven't answered the question either.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 09:53 PM

Old Guy:

I answered this question, and then I took the trouble to point out to you that I had answered it, and you have ignored me twice.

Mister Kerry was expressing a sensitivity to the stress and anger that motivates usic such as rap, and said he was fascinated by it because it reveals these strains of emotion in the culture as a whole.

That is a legitimate sociological proposition. The minds and hearts of subcultures are very often expressed more clearly in their music than anywhere else.

As a politician it is his business to understand what different groups of people are experiencing, what is hindering them and what their feelings are. So he finds rap music to be a valuable indicator of the feelings beneath the surface in a certain sector of the American populace. I would too.

I do not like rap music, but I can respect it as a medium of a group of people. Kerry can also. If you were a compassionate and aware politician, you would too. If Bush were competent and compassionate, he would as well.

I expect you will not understand this post as written but will alter it to make it worse, or to make it seem less reasoned than it is. Let me advise you in advance this is the last offering I will make, out of a decent respect for discourse, to try to clarify what Mister Kerry said in the face of your obnoxious, persistent refusal to understand the viewpoint being presented.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 10:57 PM

"Do you take me for such a fool
To think I'd make contact
With the one who tries to hide
What he don't know to begin with?"

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 11:03 PM

This Guy is Kerry's favorite. That says all I need to know!

GIVE ME SOME TRUTH

Lead Vocals & Guitars: John Lennon Lead Guitar: George Harrison Bass: Klaus Voormann Piano: Nicky Hopkins Acoustic Guitar: Ron Linton Drums: Alan White


GIVE ME SOME TRUTH
(John Lennon)

I'm sick and tired of hearing things
From uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocritics
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth

I've had enough of reading things
By neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth

No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of Georgy Porgy
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of hope
Money for dope
Money for rope

No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of soap
Money for dope
Money for rope

I'm sick to death of seeing things
From tight-lipped, condescending, mama's little chauvinists
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth now

I've had enough of watching scenes
Of schizophrenic, ego-centric, paranoiac, prima-donnas
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth

No short-haired, yellow-bellied, son of tricky dicky
Is gonna mother hubbard soft soap me
With just a pocketful of soap
It's money for dope
Money for rope

Ah, I'm sick to death of hearing things
from uptight, short-sighted, narrow-minded hypocrites
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now

I've had enough of reading things
by neurotic, psychotic, pig-headed politicians
All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now

All I want is the truth now
Just gimme some truth now
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 11:06 PM

Oh yes, I absolutely agree...

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 11:55 PM

Kerry told MTV: "I'm fascinated by rap and by hip-hop. I think that there's a lot of poetry in it. There's a lot of anger, a lot of social energy in it.
Kerry said America's leaders disregard rap music at their peril, telling MTV, "I think you better listen to it pretty carefully because it's important.... I'm still listening, because I know that it's a reflection of the street and it's a reflection of life. And I understand all that."
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/3/30/232933.shtml

Is Kerry being honest or not. I don't think he is being honest. He just wants votes and says things like this to get more votes. Pandering in other words. It is not mentioned in Rolling Stone but he says it on MTV.

You can moan and groan that all of this has been answered but none of it has been answered. Excuses have been made for Kerry but nothing has been answered except with esoteric horseshit references to stuff like compassion and awareness.

He pretends to fit in with the regular people. He goes to a Wendys and to eat and rub elbows and then he gets in his bus and and eats his real gourmet lunch catered by a country club.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 12:10 AM

You're just making noise, OG. You have an opinion based on prejudice and a refusal to examine. And if you, like your Looney-Boy Resident,. believe that comapassion is horse-shit and that awareness is horse-shit, then you are obviosuly well suited to be a Bush supporter. He believes in neither of those things, whereas some folks think they are among the most important elements of a human being's character.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 12:20 AM

Amos:

You are fixated on the term Looney-Boy. Are you associated in some way with a mental institution for children?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 12:21 AM

No more speculation. No more statistics. Grow a back-bone.
(Bet you're sorry ya won the war now...)

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 01:20 AM

OG,

Looney-Boy is an affectionate term I developed to refer to the current Resident and secondarily to his fat-cat cohorts.

You are incorrect that I am fixated on it. Don't be absurd.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 01:21 AM

Old Guy,

yes, I think he is being honest. And you have no evidence beyond your name-calling ("liberal elitist") and the faulty premise which you just made up ("white liberals from the Northeast don't listen to rap") that he doesn't. You may continue to beat a dead horse if you wish, but you're just being an asshole. The fact is, you're just railing like a lunatic on a point about which you have neither knowledge nor understanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:01 AM

There is a lot of excellent footagte of the young Kerry in the recent release "Going Up River". They demonstrate a man of intelligence and a lot of courage. It is much more likely that he is being honest.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:29 AM

Is there any footage of Kerry listening to Rap or Hip Hop?

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:33 AM

OG:

Stop playing the fool.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: jimlad
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:39 AM

Why not just send Harry Windsor to Iraq instead of members of the Black Watch he a "fighty" sort of feller especially with 4 Heavies" as bodyguards

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 12:06 PM

I want to see some proof that Kerry listens to Rap and Hip Hop.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 06:32 PM

Sorry, Old Guy. You are accusing Kerry of lying about something pretty trivial. You brought it up. By any reasonable standard the burden of proof rests with you.

Good Luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:59 PM

Nerd:

Why are you bitching about such a trivial thing?

I don't see the reason to search for something I don't think esists.

Now prove to me that you don't have a brain.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:01 AM

Get a life!

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:02 AM

OG:

You were the one bitching--why twist things even more?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:28 AM

Amos:

Where is the twist? All I want is something to back up Kerry's words.
I don't think it exists. Do you think it exists?

And the word is disingenuous. You know like insincere?

Some one is twisting my words.

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 02:03 AM

Old Guy,

the twist is claiming that I was bitching about the Rap issue when you were the one bitching about it. You are downright ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 12:15 AM

Nerd:
So you are bitching about my bitching?
I want to see some proof that Kerry listens to Rap and Hip Hop.
Did you get those RPGs yet?
Did you find your brain yet?
Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 12:22 AM

OLD GUY:

You find you high school diploma yet?

Did you pass Basic Civilization 1?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Old Guy
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 01:42 AM

Amos:

Yes

No

Old Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 01:50 AM

OG: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

You'll have to bait someone else...

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 08:57 PM

Old Guy...

I'll bet you Kerry listens to this Rap song. Him and a couple of million young voters.

Eminem Anti-Bush Video

I'm not a rap fan but this is powerful this is very very well done

Bravo Eminem!


Imagine it pouring, it's raining down on us,
Mosh pits outside the oval office
Someone's trying to tell us something, maybe this is God just saying
we're responsible for this monster, this coward, that we have empowered
This is Bin Laden, look at his head nodding,
How could we allow something like this, Without pumping our fist
Now this is our, final hour
Let me be the voice, and your strength, and your choice
Let me simplify the rhyme, just to amplify the noise
Try to amplify the times it, and multiply it by six
Teen million people are equal of this high pitch
Maybe we can reach Al Quaida through my speech
Let the President answer on high anarchy
Strap him with AK-47, let him go
Fight his own war, let him impress daddy that way
No more blood for oil, we got our own battles to fight on our soil
No more psychological warfare to trick us to think that we ain't loyal
If we don't serve our own country we're patronizing a hero
Look in his eyes, it's all lies, the stars and stripes
They've been swiped, washed out and wiped,
And Replaced with his own face, mosh now or die"

Subject: RE: BS: Kerry Interview with Rolling stone
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 10:16 PM

Unlike Bush, Kerry has done interviews with popular youth-culture media like Rolling Stone magazine, noting that he didn't think Bush would "fuck it up as badly as he (Bush) did."
http://www.kaleo.org/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/10/04/4160e93dda71d

"And you said, Fuck it? You're damn right.
I said, "I'm going to be who I am" -- I think people care about authenticity. There are much bigger issues."
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/6562106


Arnie