BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!

Subject: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 04:54 PM

And it's annoying. What a stupid, useless expression. I do not recall ever hearing it before about 15 years ago. Now I hear it everywhere. It was certainly not in use in the 60's or 70's. Does anyone know where it started or when? Was it a Valley Girl expression? If we get a working time machine, let's go back and do something about whoever started it in the first place, I say...

As jOhn from Hull would say: "Cheesy" is rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 05:00 PM

Yeah, but it's soooooooooo good.

We need words like "cheesy". How else could we talk about people like Barry Manilow and Wayne Newton?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 05:03 PM

Off topic a little, we recorded our first album at a studio that was usually used by aspiring bubblegum pop acts. It was known as the Dairy due to the amount of cheese that was manufactured there!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 05:24 PM

Cheese is supposed to be cheesy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 05:25 PM

Cheese is supposed to be cheesy. I've never been able to untangle what it is intended to mean in any other context.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 05:58 PM

I'm not convinced that cheese is cheesy. In fact, given the bewildering variety of cheeses, from mousetrap to Roquefort, I think cheese is quite cool!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:20 PM

That's true, duellingbouzoukis. Cheese is never cheesy. Cheeze, on the other hand, is always cheesy.

(Cheeze = processed cheese food: velveeta cheese, cheez whiz in a spray can, individually wrapped american processed cheese food slices... )

We need a word like cheesy to talk about cheeze.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:32 PM

You're right Carol! Why???!! Cheese IS food. So why the need to designate something that ISN'T cheese as "cheese food"??!!! Is it in case you accidentally try to brush your teeth with it or spray it under your armpits?!

Ahem.

Sorry.

Got carried away by my emotions there.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:41 PM

Because it violates the "truth in advertising" laws if we call it cheese, because it isn't.

( ...so do your examples come from personal experience? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:44 PM

My assumption was that the expression means that whatever it is referring to stinks (as in that old expression, "Who cut the cheese?"). Or does it merely connote that which is soft and mass-produced?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:45 PM

Are you insinuating that I have cheesy armpits and teeth?! Curses! I knew I shouldn't have sent my picture to the "profiles" section! :)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:56 PM

No, LH. Use the examples we've given of things that are cheesy to understand its meaning. Other cheesy things include:

Naugahyde
Game show hosts
People with overly whitened teeth and fake tans
Interior decor from the 1960s
Shag carpeting
Ceiling mirrors in the bedroom
Donald Trump's hair
(Everything else about Donald Trump)
Polyester double knit pant-suits

Getting the picture?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:05 PM

And just to add my ha'porth:

Any glam rock band from the 70s
Leopard skin seat covers in cars
Furry dice in same
Mullet haircuts
Lycra catsuits
Durango moustaches

And in the best tradition of cheesy TV adverts for cheesy "Best Of" records that no right thinking person would ever want to buy "and many many more...." :)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:08 PM

Good list, duellingbouzoukis.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:14 PM

Ugh. Am I ever.

Picture this: Barry Manilow, dressed in a polyester leisure suit, with his teeth overly whitened and a fake tan, hosting a game show called "Wanking for Dollars". He sits on a naugahyde chair, set upon a truly garish shag carpet, surrounded by a set reminiscent of suburban life in the 60's. His blow-dried hair and gleaming schnozz are reflected in the ceiling mirrors that glisten above him and the wall mirrors that give the room a horrifying illusion of repeating itself unto infinity. He is interviewing...Donald and Ivana Trump, who are congratulating him on how much they love his songs, specially "Mandy", the song that sealed their love when they were first dating. "You really DO write the songs..." gushes Ivana. "Oh, be-HAVE..." mugs Barry, doing an Austin Powers impression. "But now...our two surprise guests! Senator...Hillary Clinton!" (major applause) And.................Miss....Monica Lewinsky!!!!!! (HUGE OVATION!!!!) Hillary gives Barry a look that could kill, and studiously avoids any eye contact with Monica. Donald Trump falls all over himself trying to decide which one of them to kiss on the cheek first.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:17 PM

Aaaaaaaackkkkk!!!!

Cheez overdose!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:27 PM

I think you've got the general idea, yes. I feel soiled by that!

And not in a good way.... :)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:45 PM

I have a guide that I use to define cheesiness. Consider a scale from good taste to the most garish tackiness. At the far end are those people who like tacky things but have a small illusion of good taste, shame or self control keeping them from going over the edge into totally tacky.

Lets look at Db's example of fuzzy dice. Large orange fuzzy dice which you can see from another car a hundred yards away are definately tacky... But as the dice get smaller and less noticeable, they slip for totally tacky, into the realm of cheesiness.

So indeed, if you take your idea of what is tacky, and think of some compromise that makes it ever so slightly less tacky, you are looking something cheesey.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:58 PM

My definition differs slightly from that of JtS (I guess there is some measure of subjectivity with a word like "cheesy").

To me, cheesy can include something or someone who (that) is striving for coolness but ends up being more tacky than cool. Wayne Newton being a classic example of this. Although I wouldn't apply that definition to things like cheeze. I can't explain why cheeze is cheesy. But it is.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 07:59 PM

another way of looking at it might be "dishonest tackiness" Joan Rivers is Tacky because she doesn't pretend to be otherwise. Celine Dion is cheesy because, while she is every bit as tacky as Ms. Rivers, she is trying to convince the world that she is cool.

Cheeze in a can is cheesy because the "z" is there to fool stupid people into thinking they are eating cheeze.

Whipped topping in a can is merely tacky, because no one is being asked to believe that they are eating whipped cream.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:04 PM

Whipped topping in a can isn't really whipped cream!?!

:-0

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:10 PM

No one except Carol, that is...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:11 PM

You're right, actually. Cheese entails an implicit lack of self-awareness juxtaposed with an over-weening sense of one's own importance and relevance, despite all evidence to the contrary. I would tentatively (well, not all that tentatively, actually! In fact quite cheerfully) include Michael Jackson in that category. And, for UK catters, Robert Kilroy-Silk fits that definition like a UKIP member at a BNP rally!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:37 PM

I find Michael Jackson to be more freaky than cheesy. Although he may just be the one person in the world who actually strives to be cheesy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:40 PM

You've got a point and no mistake. After all, he now apparently owns the worldwide rights to "Happy Birthday". Anyone who lashes out good money on that MUST be striving for cheese!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 08:48 PM

Yeah Michael is more Freaky and Tacky than cheesy, I would call him Fracky but Db you are certainly on the right track.

When I think Cheesy and English I think of Posh Spice, Robbie Williams, and Spandau Ballet.

Boy George is tacky and George Michael is freaky and sleazy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 09:01 PM

Why stop at Posh Spice? All of the Spice Girls were cheese personified! And as for Robbie Williams, He did the ultimate cheese thing of recording an album of cheesy Frank Sinatra songs in a terminally inept and cack-handed fashion!

In fact, thinking about it, I'm going to stick up for my country and say that I think we English do cheese far better than you Yanks! Your cheese may reek of vanity and be self-obsessed and navel-gazing to a stultifying degree, but we English have that bargain-basement, cut-price, ineffable tawdriness that is the hallmark of true fromage!

Rule Britannia! (to a wince-making Hot Chocolate-esque disco beat, of course!)   :)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 11:05 PM

erm... JtS isn't a Yank.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 11:10 PM

I'm from Canada. There aren't a lot of Cheesy Canadians but the ones we have are extreme in their cheesiness

Celine Dion
Tom Green
Paul Anka

and a Canadian who represents his own uberlevel of cheesiness, Maven of the Mudcat, that Montreal madman, none other than MR. WILLIAM SHATNER!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 08:45 AM

Sorry mate! No offence taken, I hope!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:09 PM

I consider Paul Anka to be the single cheesiest singer of all time. He even beats Barry Manilow and Wayne Newton. Paul is the Big Cheese of living songwriters. His songs are unspeakably awful (though musically quite competent), and they are meant to be taken seriously! He obviously considers himself one of the great romantic lovers of all time. I can see him right now, wowing a packed room in Las Vegas, across the street from Tony Clifton. He reeks. He should marry Celine Dionne at the first available opportunity.

William Shatner cannot be called cheesy, because he makes fun of himself all the time. That raises him to an awareness level that transcends cheesiness, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 07:32 PM

When cheese is heatd, it can get tacky.... except for Haloumi!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 08:07 PM

None at all! DB this thread has been fun!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 09:27 PM

By the way, I agree that the Spice Girls were spectacularly cheesy. Very fine example of the concept. How about the Carpenters and the Captain & Tennile? Do they qualify? And how about "Village People"?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 09:42 PM

The Village are that particular subset of tacky, called "campy" aren't they?

Captain and Tenile certainly, especially the Captain.

I donno about the Carpenters, Karen had a fantastic voice and played the drums, I'd be tempted to forgive her cheesiness and call it excentricity. Richard was cheesy though.

A lot of 70's TV was cheesy.

The 6 Million Dollar Man
and the Bionic woman certainly
Cannon (actually everthing by Quinn Martin Productions)
Wonder Woman
Three's company

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 09:47 PM

"Three's Company" went beyond cheesy to just plain horrifying! But I could say that about Paul Anka too. Okay, cheesy then.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 10:10 PM

Did anyone yet mention "Teen Angel"?

(Loved the song, but it fits the criteria.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 07:38 AM

I seem to remember there was a song back in the 60s entitled "This Pullover". I can only remember the first few lines when went:

This pullover
That you give to me
I will wear it
For eternity

As the French would say "Tres fromageux, n'est-ce pas?"

Any one know it?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:50 AM

LOL! Imagine what the pullover would be like after a few decades...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:57 AM

I suspect it would be cheesy in the aromatic sense of the word!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 12:39 PM

do Americans have cheesy wotsits?
or cheese footballs for that matter

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 12:44 PM

I'm sure only unhygenic Americans have cheesy wotsits!


Ahem


Sorry....

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 01:08 PM

Well, I'm the only "American" who's been posting to this thread, and I don't have a "wotsit", so I can't help you with your question, weelittledrummer.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 01:10 PM

Oddly enough, the word "cheesy," the way it is usually used, has nothing to do with cheese per se. Here ya go.

From Online Etymology Dictionary:—

cheesy:    "cheap, inferior," 1896, from Urdu chiz, "a thing," picked up by British in India by 1818 and used in the sense of "a big thing." By 1858, cheesy had evolved a slang meaning of "showy," which led to the modern, ironic sense. Cheesed "disgruntled, exasperated," is from 1941, British slang, but the connection is uncertain.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Chris Green
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 01:13 PM

To clarify for the benefit of trans-pond catters, "Cheesy Wotsits" are cheese-flavoured crisps in the shape of, well, willies, to put it indelicately. Cheesy footballs are the same, only in the shape of balls.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 02:15 PM

We have the Wotsits, only they're called "Cheetos". I guess they do look a little like toes. We have round ones too. I guess that must be the football thingies. I think they're called cheetos too. And we also call them cheese puffs (both shapes).

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 02:16 PM

(btw, the Cheetos and Cheese puffs are in the category of cheeze)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 02:24 PM

ah well now puffs.....

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 01:54 PM

Cheezy = chintzy + sleazy. It works for me!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: MMario
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 02:02 PM

LH - I'm surprised you never heard this expression in the 60's and 70's.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 02:09 PM

"Cheese" used to be what teenage boys called the source of the bad smell emanating from old unwashed male undies... a beyond-evil combination of scrote-sweat, dried smegma and f**k-taters (bits of dried post-coital fluid). Perhaps the adjective "Cheesy" stems from that association?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 02:35 PM

Oh, man. I just realized how incredibly glad I am that I was never a teenage boy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: MMario
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 02:37 PM

I bet Jack the Sailor is pretty happy about that fact as well Carol.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 02:41 PM

Oh My... Oh my...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cheesy' is itself a cheesy expression!
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 03:29 PM

;-)