BS: Some thoughts about the election

Subject: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: emjay
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:18 PM

I received this from a relative with no indication of who the original author might have been. The nameless author does seem willing, even eager to share and I think it is well worth sharing. At the suggestion of another mudcatter, I am doing so.

Subject: A Post-Election Rant

Written by a woman in Cleveland the morning after the election:

It would be difficult to fully communicate my disappointment in a simple email. On the other hand, slipping out into the hall and drowning myself in the mop bucket would mean that someone else would have to feed my dog. Kerry has not yet conceded defeat, but I have. Even if someone finds that crate full of votes for Kerry bobbing down the Cuyahoga River, the American people have spoken, and they have sent the world a message: "We're barely bright enough to chew our own food.

Incompetence, incoherence, inarticulateness, pettiness, and random savagery apparently do not deter the majority of Americans. The thing that really, REALLY matters to Americans? Homos. And foreigners. Both must be stopped at any cost.

Americans voted overwhelmingly in favor of bigotry, amending state constitutions around the country to prevent [law-biding, tax-paying] same-sex couples from having any rights beyond the right to live on the margins of society. We clearly have far more to fear from The International Homosexual Conspiracy (tm) than we do from North Korea and the collapse of the American health care system.

Apparently, we are truly a nation of slackjawed yokels, awed only by grotesque displays of wealth and violence, reverent only of the bossman and beholden not even to our children, since we seem content to mortgage their future in favor of a $300 tax refund that we have traded for decent jobs, healthcare, and a just society.

We make pious noises about worshipping a Just and Merciful God, while doling out destruction and horror upon the innocent, pausing only to pat ourselves on the back for waging a "just" war to rid the world of tyrants that audaciously aspire to exist after they lose their utility to us in endless low-level conflicts to control the world's oil supply.

We seem to have [collectively] become cheap, venal, vulgar, and petty while we apparently don't have the ability to reason our way out of the dilemma of taking care of the sick, watching out for the elderly, and teaching our children not to be credulous, callow dupes.

To my friends from the UK, France and anyone to whom they choose to forward this, I feel that I owe you an apology. It is as if I have brought an orangutan to high tea. While he flings shit at you and tries to snatch pastries from your plate, I am left wondering how I might make it up to you.

The world's richest and most powerful nation seems to have lost its moral compass. We have lost interest in leading by example in favor of taking by force. I would like to say that I believe that one day in the future America might regain its senses. Unfortunately, I am not terribly optimistic. The best I can offer you is to remind you that Nixon also "won" a 2nd term.

-- Anonymous
=================================

Sorry, I try not to deluge people with my ramblings. But I had to write this and, having written it, had to send it. Even though I don't know anyone I can send it to (without alienating my Republican in-laws, who are the only "middle country" people I know.)

I am writing this letter to the people in the red states in the middle of the country -- the people who voted for George W. Bush. I am writing this letter because I don't think we know each other.

So I'll make an introduction. I am a New Yorker who voted for John Kerry. I used to live in California, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. I used to live in Washington, DC, and if I still lived there, I would vote for Kerry. Kerry won in all three of those regions.

Maybe you want to know more about me. Or maybe not; maybe you think you know me already. You think I am some anti-American anarchist because I dislike George W. Bush. You think that I am immoral and anti-family, because I support women's reproductive freedom and gay rights. You think that I am dangerous, and even evil, because I do not abide by your religious beliefs.

Maybe you are content to think that, to write me off as a "liberal" -- the dreaded "L" word -- and rejoice that your candidate has triumphed over evil, immoral, anti-American, anti-family people like me. But maybe you are still curious. So here goes: this is who I am.

I am a New Yorker. I was here, in my apartment downtown, on September 11th. I watched the Towers burn from the roof of my building. I went inside so that I couldn't see them when they fell. I had friends who were inside. I have a friend who still has nightmares about watching people jump and fall from the Towers. He will never be the same. How many people like him do you know? People that can't sit in a restaurant without plotting an escape route, in case it blows up?

I am a worker. I work across the street from the Citigroup Center, which the government told us is a "target" of terrorism. Later, we found out they were relaying very old information, but it was already too late. They had given me bad dreams again. The subway stop near my office was crowded with bomb-sniffing dogs, policemen in heavy protective gear, soldiers. Now, every time I enter or exit my office, all of my possessions are X-rayed to make sure I don't have any weapons. How often are you stopped by a soldier with a bomb-sniffing dog outside your office?

I am a neighbor. I have a neighbor who is a 9/11 widow. She has two children... My husband does odd jobs for her now, like building bookshelves. Things her husband should do. He uses her husband's tools, and the two little girls tell him, "Those are our daddy's tools." How many 9/11 widows and orphans do you know? How often do you fill in for their dead loved ones?

I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked my way through graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50-hour week, every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely leave before 9 PM. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At some point in the future, we will have to pay much more -- once this country faces its deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the areas of the country that supported Kerry -- New York, California, Illinois, Massachusetts -- they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax base of this country. How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you pay for?

I am a liberal. The funny part is, liberals have this reputation for living in Never-Neverland, being idealists, not being sensible. But let me tell you how I see the world: I see America as one nation in a world of nations. Therefore, I think we should try to get along with other nations. I see that gay people exist. Therefore, I think they should be allowed to exist, and be treated the same as other people. I see ways in which women are not allowed to control their own bodies. Therefore, I think we should give women more control over their bodies. I see that people have awful diseases. Therefore, I think we should enable scientists to try to cure them. I see that we have a Constitution. Therefore, I think it should be upheld. I see that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Therefore, I think that Iraq was not an imminent danger to me. It seems so pragmatic to me. How do you see the world? Do you really think voting against gay marriage will keep people from being gay? Would you really prefer that people continue to die from Parkinson's disease? Do you really not care about the Constitutional rights of political detainees? Would you really have supported the war if you knew the truth, or would you have wanted to spend more of our money on health care, job training, and terrorism preparedness?

I am an American. I have an American flag flying outside my home. I love my home more than anything. I love that I grew up right outside New York City. I first went to the Statue of Liberty with my 5th grade class, and my Mom and dad took me to the Empire State Building when I was 8. I love taking the subway to Yankee Stadium. I loved living in Washington DC and going on dates to the Lincoln Memorial. It is because I love this country so much that I argue with my political opponents as much I do.

I am not safe. I never feel safe. My in-laws live in a small town in Ohio, and that town has received more federal funding, per capita, for terrorism preparedness than New York City has. I take subways and buses every day. I work in a skyscraper across the street from a "target." I have emergency supplies and a spare pair of sneakers in my desk, in case something happens while I'm at work. Do you? How many times a month do you worry that your subway is going to blow up? When you hear sirens on the street, do you run to the window to make sure everything is okay? When you hear an airplane, do you flinch? Do you dread beautiful, blue-skied September days? I don't know a single New Yorker who doesn't spend the month of September on tiptoes, superstitiously praying for rain so we don't have to relive that beautiful, blue-skied day.

I am lonely. I feel that we, as a nation, have alienated all our friends and further provoked our enemies. I feel unprotected. Most of all I feel alienated from my fellow citizens, because I don't understand what you are thinking. You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason, against the wishes of the entire world. You voted for a man whose lack of foresight and inability to plan has led to massive insurgencies in Iraq, where weapons are disappearing into the hands of terrorists. You voted for a man who let Osama Bin Laden escape into the hills of Afghanistan so that he could start that war in Iraq. You voted for a man who doesn't want to let people love who they want to love; doesn't want to let doctors cure their patients; doesn't want to let women rule their destinies.

I don't understand why you voted for this man. For me, it is not enough that he is personable; it is not enough that he seems like one of the guys. Why did you vote for him? Why did you elect a man that lied to us in order to convince us to go to war? (Ten years ago, you were incensed when our president lied about his sex life; you thought it was an impeachable offense.) Why did you elect a leader who thinks that strength cannot include diplomacy or international cooperation? Why did you elect a man who did nothing except run away and hide on September 11?

Most of all, I am terrified. I mean daily, I am afraid that I will not survive this. I am afraid that I will lose my husband, that I will never have children, that I will never grow old and watch the sunset in a backyard of my own. I am afraid that my career -- which should end with a triumphant and good-natured roast at a retirement party in 2035 -- will be cut short by an attack on me and my colleagues, as we sit sending emails and making phone calls one ordinary afternoon. Is your life at stake? Are you terrified?

I don't think you are. I don't think you realize what you have done. And if anything happens to me or the people I love, I blame you. I wanted you to know that.

Emjay

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:24 PM

Whew!

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: emjay
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:31 PM

I know. It's l-o-o-o-o-o-ong.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:35 PM

Get it said, girl;. You are not alone, and some of us understand what you see.

Blessings and greetings from the Other Liberal Coast in the family of man.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:37 PM

emjay: The "whew" was a reference to the power of the writing. I have copied it and I intend to keep it filed as an example of what an essay should be. Thank you, and I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:52 PM

emjay, may I have your permission to post this on a political forum to which I belong? It's a closed forum, so you unfortunately can't join, but I would love to present your essay, as it excellently presents a liberal as a regular human being, something that many conservatives have problems with when they stereotype liberals.

Please let me know, either on Mudcat or by emailing [e-mail].

Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:56 PM

Beautiful!

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:01 PM

Loud sound of applause coming from way down in the deep south where not everybody voted for the monkey.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:06 PM

peedeecee: Note that emjay did not write the essay.

"I received this from a relative with no indication of who the original author might have been. The nameless author does seem willing, even eager to share and I think it is well worth sharing."

FYI

It's one helluva piece of writing though, ain't it? Wow. I have read it four times, and it just gets stronger. That gal can sure write.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:28 PM

She said: "You voted for a man who started a war in Iraq for no reason, against the wishes of the entire world.". I would add: "And then you voted to not change the regime because we "are at war". Insane.

I wonder if reading this essay would change any minds among those who voted for Bush? Some day, somehow, someone will change his or her mind, and will see clearly how mioled he or she has been. It's not going to be pretty.

My local paper's Sunday editor, Fern Chandonnet, wrote an Opinion column on the debates between Kerry and Bush. Among other things, he had this to say:

"Let's say you are invited to climb into a barrel to argue the issues with a rabid monkey. (A sane person wouldn't do it. But political aspiration does funny things to the mind.) And let's say you are enough of an intellect to subscribe to the conventions and politesse of formal debate. You say to the monkey, "Education needs our support; the economy needs looking after; we need clean air and water; and we need to aim for peace in our international deliberations."

"The rabid monkey of course bites you on the arm, then starts biting you all over until you leap, screaming, from the barrel. What you should have done was smack the monkey upside the head with a two-by-four. Really hard.

"You should have said: "Mr. President, your efforts to rape American education by stealing its prerogatives and money are transparent; you have pillaged the economy for your crook friends and established a sufficient enough national debt to block all future efforts at helping the poor or the sick or the needy of any kind; your Orwellian lies about clean water and clean air may be the most disgusting of your many disgusting habits; and you have killed more than a thousand American servicemen and women, crippled thousands more, and done away with maybe 25,000 Iraqis. For what?"

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM

I thought lengthy cut and pastes weren't allowed here.   This is definitely a cut and paste from many elsewheres on the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:25 PM

I was a bit confused about who wrote what, since the message (after the brief introduction) consists of two wholly separate pieces.

Doesn't matter who wrote it, though. Very eloquent.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:04 PM

Gee, I feel safe. I also don't feel lonely. I also don't feel terrified.

This broad needs prosac. You and your old man seem to make enough money ($70K paid in taxes) to afford a good shrink.

I live in a blue state, also. Get yourself a pair of 3d glasses and you won't have a problem.

get a life. This cut and paste is a complete crrck of shit. get over it. Kerry lost. think about helping america instead of your constant whining and divisivnous.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:10 PM

Sorry for the spelling errors. was press for time.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:14 PM

I'm disappointed that anyone, let alone a slight majority, saw fit to vote for the neoconservative establishment. However, I'm not losing any sleep over it -- I'm right there with MG in this regard (if precious little else).

I was just as adamantly against Nixon when I cast my first Presidential vote in 1972 -- and my boy McGovern fared *much* worse that year than Kerry did this time around. (Might well have made a better President than any of this year's contenders, too.)

Control of our political destiny by the already-powerful is really nothing new. It's been that way since before any of us were born; we'll probably continue to survive.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:18 PM

"we'll probably continue to survive"

...especially when the alternative is rather unappealing.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:22 PM

Well said, Poppa.

There's a thoughtful essay by Arianna Huffington in the LA times about the strategizing the Democratic party did, and failed to do, in this election. Good read.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:33 PM

PoppaGator made sense, and it should remind us that many KNEW that re-electing Nixon was a bad idea and we refused to just sit back and shut up when he had many fooled. If, in politics, you are sure that the 'slight' majority are looking at things thru rose colored glasses and have been blinded to the real problems a guy like Bush/Nixon represents, then you MUST continue to object and explain and point at the details. I trust you remember how the Washington Post was vilified by Republicans when Woodward & Bernstein were writing and asking questions?

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:55 PM

"Get yourself a pair of 3d glasses and you won't have a problem." MG

Surely you mean 'rose colored glasses'? That - and the Prozac - explains a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 07:03 PM

Well, I have no doubt that this was all written by the same person. There is enough inner connectedness to erase any doubts I might have. Yes, it is two essays that were written at two different sittings but I have now doubt that it is not a collaberation. Had it been a collaberation is would have been slicker. There's nothing slick about this woman's writings. These are all very real human feelings.

(If others want to argue the opposite, fine. I'm done on this point since it can't be proven either way...)

BUT, this isn't the kind of essay that will get read by the Bush folks. They will read a couple paragraphs and reach into that basket of simplistic bumper sticker responses, fire one off and go back to watching NASCAR or counting their money. And this response, and Martin's is typical, is all progressives can expect. You see, Martin is very much what this woman was talking about. Here she was trying to open up dialogue and tell the other side about herself and ask the tough questions but the Bush folks, not that I liked Kerry one danged bit, can't get beyond the bumper sticker responses. I think this is telling and I do believe that there are two very different cultures in America. One side can't talk enough and the other just doesn't want to hear it: "You lost, get over it!"

And sadly this is more a commentary on just how polluted our democracy has become when the winners think it is their job to "rule". Governance isn't about ruling. And democracy isn't about locking other folks out of the process.

This is why I was hoping that the election would be so close and so screwed up that it would be decided in the House of Representatives. This was perhaps democracies last chance to correct what I view as a terminal illness that is one the verge of taking down our country. If 51% of the people think they can rule 49% of the people without letting the 49% have any say then the country is doomed.

I'm not too sure which House committe was meeting this past term but I'm pretty sure it was about the Medicare Drug bill when the Repubs asked the Capitol Police to have the Dems removed because they weren't invited! See what I mean? This is not anything that Tom Jefferson envisioned ever happening but it is very much what the federal government has become.

Progressives, though representing at least a sizeable minority, have been shut out of this governemnt now for 3 decades and I would guess that the woman who wrote this is just at that level where the frustration is unbearable. It is becoming unbearable but not because Bush won but because he and his supporters all pretty much have the same "We won, get over it" mentality.

Hey, I look back over my time on the planet and I think how things would be much different if Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, John Kennedy and Malcolm X had not been killed. These were our visionaries.

I have never professed violence as an answer to anything but if the Bushites and the Repubocrooks continue their slash and burn politics there will come a point where this woman won't bother trying to engage the other side in dialogue and just quietly pick up a gun and try to even the score.

I would hope that the Martin Gibson's of the world would take just a little more time in trying to hear what folks are saying and less time to fishing thru the various bumper sticker responses. It's their game to loose and if they don't start talking (and listening) there will come a time when things are going to get real ugly. Real ugly. And like I said, they have the most to loose by the smugness and sandbagging...

That's the way I see it...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 07:13 PM

Hear, hear, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 07:25 PM

There is a slightly extended version of the Huffington 11/10 essay at ariannaonline and you aren't required to register.
One thing she doesn't address, however, is the magnificent problem of how, exactly, to criticize the decision to go to war (especially when he supported it) and the handling of the war while it is in progress. A terrible position to be managing. On top of this, when he could mop the floor with Bush in discussions of all other domestic and foreign policy, there was a strong incentive not to trash US war policy at this point in time. Arrianna criticizes him for taking the "cautious" approach, but I would say that it was very much to his credit.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 07:28 PM

Bobert:

There is no doubt -- you are Da Man.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:07 PM

I've read all the wonderful posts to this thread. Congratulations!

I am so glad that America is beginning to realize that democracy is something that you have to work for, something to nurture and cherish. Democracy is not a God-given right. I fear that many Americans (those that didn't vote and those that voted for Bush) have absolutely no idea what a gift they have been given. They take it for granted. As Joanie said, "You don't know what you've go til its gone."

There is alot of work ahead of you if you wish to restore democracy to America, but it can be done. Its worth it.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:08 PM

For those questioning the origins, click here and here looks like they are doing the Internet rounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:24 PM

Right, web cut and paste political rant, in other words.

I thought these sorts of things were strictly forbidden, like I said. Especially when it is so obvious this is yet another internet spam message making the rounds.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: freda underhill
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:36 PM

thanks for cutting and pasting this great article MJ. i think the only stuff thats forbiddeen here is abusive stuff. thanks for saying it!


freda

(cheering from sydney)

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:01 PM

Yo, GUEST...

Just because this letter has been picked up by several sites does not prove it is a copy and paste collaberation... Reread the entire two essays...

Hey, one can read them without feeling on ounce of support for Kerry or voting for a Demopub. The feelings are 100% anti-Bush and 100% anti-Bushites...

Trust me. Reread the, or read if you haven't, the two essays,,,

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:19 PM

John Kerry's Concession Speech (Alternate Version)
--------

My fellow Americans, the people of this nation have spoken, and spoken with a clear voice. So I am here to offer my concession.

I concede that I overestimated the intelligence of the American people.
Though the people disagree with the President on almost every issue, you saw fit to vote for him. I never saw that coming. That's really special. And I mean "special" in the sense that we use it to describe those kids who ride the short school bus and find ways to injure themselves while eating pudding with rubber spoons. That kind of special.

I concede that I misjudged the power of hate.
That's pretty powerful stuff, and I didn't see it. So let me take a moment to congratulate the President's strategists: Putting the gay marriage amendments on the ballot in various swing states like Ohio... well, that was just genius. Genius. It got people, a certain kind of people, to the polls. The unprecedented number of folks who showed up and cited "moral values" as their biggest issue, those people changed history. The folks who consider same-sex marriage a more important issue than war, or terrorism, or the economy...Who'd have thought the election would belong to them? Well, Karl Rove did. Gotta give it up to him for that. Now, now. Credit where it's due.

I concede that I put too much faith in America's youth.
With 8 out of 10 of you opposing the President, with your friends and classmates dying daily in a war you disapprove of, with your future being mortgaged to pay for rich old people's tax breaks, you somehow managed to sit on your asses and watch the Cartoon Network while aging homophobic hillbillies carried the day. You voted with the exact same anemic percentage that you did in 2000. You suck. Seriously, y'do. Thank you. Thank you very much.

There are some who would say that I sound bitter, that now is the time for healing, to bring the nation together. Let me tell you a little story.
Last night, I watched the returns come in with some friends here in Los Angeles. As the night progressed, people began to talk half-seriously about secession, a red state/blue state split. The reasoning was this: We in blue states produce the vast majority of the wealth in this country and pay the most taxes, and you in the red states receive the majority of the money from those taxes while complaining about them. We in the blue states are the only ones who've been attacked by foreign terrorists, yet you in the red states are gung ho to fight a war in our name. We in the blue states produce the entertainment that you consume so greedily each day, while you in the red states show open disdain for us and our values. Blue state civilians are the actual victims and targets of the war on terror, while red state civilians are the ones standing behind us and yelling "Oh, yeah!? Bring it on!" More than 40% of you Bush voters still believe that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. I'm impressed by that, truly I am. Your sons and daughters who might die in this war know it's not true, the people in the urban centers where al Qaeda wants to attack know it's not true, but those of you who are at practically no risk believe this easy lie because you can. As part of my concession speech, let me say that I really envy that luxury. I concede that.

Healing? We, the people at risk from terrorists, the people who subsidize you, the people who speak in glowing and respectful terms about the heartland of America while that heartland insults and excoriates us...we wanted some healing. We spoke loud and clear. And you refused to give it to us, largely because of your high moral values. You knew better: America doesn't need its allies, doesn't need to share the burden, doesn't need to unite the world, doesn't need to provide for its future. Hell no . Not when it's got a human shield of pointy-headed, atheistic, unconfrontational breadwinners who are willing to pay the bills and play nice in the vain hope of winning a vote that we can never have. Because we're "morally inferior," I suppose, we are supposed to respect your values while you insult ours. And the big joke here is that for 20 years, we've done just that. It's not a "ha-ha" funny joke, I realize, but it's a joke all the same.

As well as conceding the election today, I am also announcing my candidacy for President in 2008. And I make this pledge to you today: THIS time, next time, there will be no pandering. This time I will run with all the open and joking contempt for my opponents that our President demonstrated towards the cradle of liberty, the Ivy League intellectuals, the "media elite," and the "white-wine sippers." This time I will not pretend that the simple folk of America know just as much as the people who devote their lives to serving and studying the nation and the world. They don't.

So that's why I'm asking for your vote in 2008, America.
I'm talking to you, you ignorant, slack-jawed yokels, you bible-thumping, inbred drones, you redneck, racist, chest-thumping, perennially duped grade-school grads. Vote for me, because I know better, and I truly believe that I can help your smug, sorry asses.

Thank you, and may God, if he does in fact exist, bless each and every one of you.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:39 PM

OK, so here is some post-election online therapy for y'all, from today's Washington Post:

Essay
Post-Election Blues, Driven Ever FWD Into the Past

By Hank Stuever
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, November 12, 2004; Page C01

Forty-eight percent of the nation is still sad and upset about the defeat of John Kerry, and you know so because they won't stop forwarding the same few links, cartoons and manifestoes to you, over and over again, as if it were 1998 and the Web were still new and you cheerfully opened every e-mail you received.

Re: FWD: FWD: FWD: The "Sorry, Everybody" photo gallery, and the anonymous "[Expletive] the South!" diatribe. The "Jesusland" depiction of a radically new North American continent, and many variations, including the "One Square/One Vote" remapping of the electoral college outcome and the new borders of "Dumb[bleep]istan." The breathless updates to the ever-tangling Diebold conspiracy. The one of the picture phone with President Bush flipping the bird with Verizon's "Can you hear me now?" trademark line. All of it CC'd to entire address books. Thought you'd all like to see this.

Seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it. But a week later it has not stopped. The post-electoral mass CC'ing seems to reflect a new stage of grief, a regression into the old-fashioned Internet of yore: Maybe if I forward this Jesusland map along to all my friends, the election results won't feel so bad.

Contagious ideas used to be nicknamed "memes" (pronounced meems), something that mutates and evolves like a gene. Newspaper reporters without many contagious ideas of their own used to write stories about the latest e-memes (always a few days late, and usually featuring a telephone interview with the creator of the original joke or list or graphic, who would typically feign surprise that "it just took on a life of its own"). This was the age of the "Wear Sunscreen" commencement address and Mahir Cagri's home page and "let's all put on monkey masks when John Glenn's space shuttle lands."

Then we became inured, underwhelmed, overshared: Spam devalued e-mail, and companies and Internet providers installed filters, and the power of a good link was lost to the fear of sending a lame one. Worse, it became uncool to FWD anything at all. FWD'ing became the activity of newly wired grandfathers and unfunny in-laws. The assumption now is that everybody has seen everything the Web has to offer already, especially by noon, and only a fool would pester you with a series of FWDs. Blogs emerged, not so much to revamp journalism but to establish a sense of narrative and context to the act of pointing, linking and riffing. Blogs sit still, in one place, and let you serve yourself from the buffet. We now live in a culture of what William Powers, in the National Journal last spring, first termed "Did You See?" Nothing is really read so much as clicked, scanned, glimpsed. Did you see? Did you see? Did you see?

We saw.

The electoral aftermath is still a distant rumble of Did You See, only much of it has come over the transom in a quaint, '90s way, spreading one e-mail at a time. A week already feels like forever ago.

We saw "Sorry, Everybody" when it first showed up as a FWD to us early in the week. We spent most of a morning looking at the hundreds of pictures these Americans had each taken of themselves, holding up written messages of apology to the rest of the world for not voting President Bush out of office. We clicked through pictures of young people, old people, babies, dogs -- all of them looking distraught, glum and deeply sorry. We clicked through the pictures of people from other countries holding up signs accepting the apology or telling the apologizers that it was okay. (Germany forgives us. Phew.)

"Sorry, Everybody" is retro even in its look, bereft of flashy graphics or things to click on. It's just pictures of people, who, one by one, kept adding their picture to the stack. And now, because of its popularity as a much-FWD'd link, the site is backlogged, and its proprietors have switched to a more savvy system where people can upload their picture to the site themselves. By Tuesday a link to "Sorry, Everybody" started popping up in the inbox about twice an hour; this, after who knows how many Jesusland maps last week.

For all the comfort and salve the post-election memes have brought to many bereft blue-state Americans, there was also this other, stranger feeling of having grown old in the 21st century. If last week is so last week, what does that make 10 years ago? Are these the first pangs of late-'90s nostalgia? The inbox clogs up with FWDs from acquaintances, and it feels as old as a sock hop. How fast the technological world washed over us and swept us up into FWD-crazy group-mailers, left us feeling like a bunch of Friendster, Craigslisting has-beens who've already seen and clicked and Googled on everything, everywhere, at every moment.

Maybe this is why "Sorry, Everybody" has such a genuine quality about it -- something about the sharing. We hurt, some of us. It feels like being a baby again (one of those dancing babies from 1997) and the Internet is mommy and we can briefly get on her lap. You really have to go look at this, someone e-mails, and sure enough, it's yet another link to "Sorry, Everybody." Instead of hitting delete, we go there again. It feels pure, and in another week it will feel like ancient times.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:47 PM

Is there one single, stinking link or FWDed msg we HAVEN'T seen posted in the Mudcat BS section in the last week and a half from distraught Kerry supporters dissing everyone in the country (except one another, of course)?

They do have a lot in common, these messages: unapologetic cut and paste displays of bigotry, intolerance, elitism, arrogance, and hate.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:50 PM

I like this rant a lot beter than the the other one with every third word being the "f-word"...

But like I said in an earlier post on this thread, there does seem to be an anger that we didn't see after the outright theft of the 2000 election and it's not just directed at Bush but the folks who voted for him...

And like I alluded to earlier, push is coming to shove in America and the Bushites aren't smart enough to see it is them who have the most to loose by continuing their moronish behavior. I'd really hate to see folks so upset that they might just decide it's time to fight fire with fire but after losing their visionaries and leaders to assasination and loosing elections going on 30 years, I would not be a bit surprised to see the tables turned and a few neocons face down in the streets...

Hey, this would be absolutely terrible and would tear this country up and isn't the way the Founding Fathers foresaw our country's future but guess what? "You lost. Get over it!" just rubs folks the wrong way... Like I said, the Bushites, especially the brownshirt true believers, have the most to loose with their arrogance...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Peace
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:52 PM

I was gonna cut and paste "The Collected Works Of William Shakespeare", but I figured that would jus' get everyone POed.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM

Bobert, nowhere have I ever said to anyone "you lost, get over it". What I am arguing against is the apparent loss of all reasoning faculties on the part of some overly distraught Kerry supporters. It is out of hand. Truly.

Read again the messages in the opening post, which have been widely distributed around the internet this week, like most of the other links and cut and pastes of these sorts since the election. Tell me Bobert, that the writers of these messages aren't consumed in anger, and lashing out at their fellow Americans who didn't vote for Kerry, referring to them with terms like the following direct quote from post #1 in this thread:

"the American people have spoken, and they have sent the world a message: "We're barely bright enough to chew our own food."

Then there is the maudlin "I am..." thing in part II above. Spare me the "I, Kerry voter, am the saint, you, Bush voter, are the sinner" crap. Please. It is so much more complicated than that, and what you are doing is further dividing and hurting the nation by carrying on like this.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:27 PM

freda, apparently you haven't familiarized yourself with the Mudcat FAQ. So allow me to cut and paste the information on the Mudcat Editorial Policy on cut and pasting, found in the FAQ, and brought to you by Joe Offer:

"We allow just about all sorts of discussion, but we draw the line when it's clear that an individual is flooding Mudcat with information - things like multiple "copycat" or interrelated threads, lengthy copy-paste messages of non-music articles from publications and Internet sources (one screen full of text is the limit - and remember that we encourage you to post the entire text of music-related information)."

Not that I expect anything to be done about this thread in particular, or the Kerry supporter threads in general that have proliferated like rabbits in the BS section since US Election Night...

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:37 PM

Agreed,GUEST. There was no real difference in policy positions between Kerry and Bush. Hey, I voted fir Ralph Nader, fir gosh sakes.

But, yeah, what I read in the initial post was the kind of anger that drives folks to do some really dumb stuff... Hey, you and I might not see much difference but the Kerry folks are sho nuff pissed off. I mean, like real pissed off. When you get this level of passion, irregardless of what the Dems and Repubs have in common (which is lots) you get folks doing dumbass stuff...

My point is that the Bush folks (not you) have been promoting this redneckish response to the Kerry folks anger with the "Get over it. You lost" mantra... This might make them feel morally superior but I'm getting the feeling that it could get a few of them shot at if they don't quit the taunting... And that's all it is. Taunting. But its being led by Bush himself with his "mandate" arrogance...

My beef is not with you but with Bush's handlers. Maybe they feel like the Christian Right wants some blood but in trying to deliver, it might be one of their own who ends up face down in then streets.

Hey, I'm just a peace loving, Green Party guy but I'm also an observer of what is going down. And it ain't purdy and its not going to get any better....but a lot worse, I'm afraid.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: jaze
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:43 PM

Well, whoever wrote it-thank you! It expresses pretty much how I feel. And remember there's half the country that feels this way, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:51 PM

And half that doesn't, jaze. Instead of staying in the anger and depression, why not discuss the strategy of dealing with the new AG? You know, the Bushie boy who brought us "the Geneva Conventions are quaint"?

In other words, why not deal with things the way they are and do something that truly matters, something productive and proactive, instead of all this angst ridden hand-wringing, venting, finger-pointing, painting half the nation as blue imbeciles...

How about you slap some cold water on your faces, and get back to work on fighting the fascists? Engaging in this drivel might make you personally feel better for a minute or two, but then the depression sets back in, which is what the fascists count on to be able to win. And I don't mean win the election, I mean the whole shootin' match.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:59 PM

Actually, correction. There is NOT half the country that feels that way. Nearly half the eligible voters in the country didn't vote.

And less than half of the actual voters voted for Kerry, and it is just plain wrong to claim to be speaking on behalf of all 55 million of them, and saying they all agree with the original post to this thread. That is just an outrageous claim.

Kerry supporters posting here, you need to know there isn't even anything close to a majority of Americans who feel the way you do. There just aren't that many of you who still feel this strongly about Bush, Kerry, the election, the voter system, a week and a half after the election. You are a distinct minority, and very vocal. But you are still a minority--a tiny fraction of the population, that insists upon carrying on with this anti-Bush and Bush voter bashing.

This behavior truly doesn't become you, and most people think it makes you look like a bunch of political geeks and conspiracy theory flakes.

You do realize that don't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:36 AM

The very best thing about mudcat is that so many different kinds of people come here. Often we feel that what we say is only reaching the eyes of like-minded people which gives us a feeling of belonging to the same "tribe" and therefore both safe and accepted in our beliefs, but it's when we reach out to others who may have completely different view points that the world changes.

I really liked these letters and know that though there will be people who disagree and some who will be vehemently opposed to what it said in them, the very fact that they will be read means the ideas are out there and being digested.

Thank you emjay, for posting them.

..xx...e

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:00 PM

ellenpoly, these letters are written to preach the choir of Kerry voters. Bush voters won't read them unless they stumble across them in places like this, because they are in a totally different mindset than the Kerry voters are.

So if what you value is reaching out to others, why remain stuck in the tribal mindset that these letters represent? Yes, people are posting these things as reinforcements of their political beliefs, to show to other people who think the same way they do, so all of you can feel safe and accepted by the Mudcat Democrat tribe.

But it is also circling the wagons, and setting up a dynamic for attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you far into the future. It is setting up a dynamic whereby anyone who doesn't share the majority Mudcat Democrat view will be marginalized and demonized. Don't you see that is anathema of what you claim to be all about? Inclusive and open and wanting diversity and all those things. That won't ever happen here in Mudcat or in your personal lives, because you are so terrified of leaving your safe and cozy Mudcat world where you get constant reinforcement for how right you are, and how evil everyone else is because they don't think and see the world the way you do.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: mg
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:28 PM

Let me register as a democrat who has no desire to be in that particular tribe. I see things that strike me as snobbish, hateful, arrogant, condescending, and way too enamored of its every thought. I'm for every social program anyone here can probably come up with. I'm for whatever taxes it takes. I think the most fundamental social program we must have is a strong national defense. I think the second one is a strong internal defense to protect us from crime, most of which is caused by drug use. I am for public works programs so that everyone who is either/and/or able bodied or mentally able can be somewhat productive. I think religions, if nothing else, add to public safety in most cases, by regulating behavior of their congregations.   I think this mockery of southerners, religious people, anyone who voted republican, red states, is disgusting. We might still get the America people seem to want however, which is unprotected, promiscuous down to the early teenage or late childhood years, disease-ridden, drug-ridden, crime-ridden, and just plain hateful. We are well on our way. If Democrats want to keep the name and go further in that direction, fine. Just let's start a party in the middle where most of America is and call it Whatever. Take Michael Moore and James Carville and Bill Mahrer with you please. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: pdq
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:42 PM

mary garvey : please run for office - you have my vote!

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:59 PM

Thank you GUEST and Mary Garvey. You both have proven my point.

GUEST you don't know me, and have no idea where and what I do beside posting at Mudcat. Your observations, though shortsighted in regards to me, were nevertheless worth reading.

As were yours, Mary, though I am pretty much in complete disagreement with everything you've expressed.

As you both obviously took the time to read my own post (as well as the far more important original one), the thoughts have been exchanged. Will they make a difference? One never knows when a spark might be ignited by either side, and I maintain it's worth it to come and say one's say here at Mudcat.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:06 PM

What I fear is that the partisan tribalism we see manifested in the US right now will lead to civil war in the US, as it has in places like Bosnia, Kosovo, Northern Ireland, Kashmir, Rwanda, Sudan, Israel and the Palestinian territories...

It isn't like we haven't seen civil war in the US before. Is that what people want, just to be able to be "right" (in the case of the Democrats) or "righteous" (in the case of the Republicans)?

That is the road we are headed down in the US, I believe. This isn't just partisan bickering as usual anymore. It is frightening--and the Democrats are getting nearly as frightening as the Republicans.

There is much too much acceptance of fascist tendencies on both sides of the political partisanship divide. Much too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:22 PM

I guess I'm not seeing this, GUEST.

From all that my friends write me, they are already back in the trenches of community action, writing to their representatives, joining organizations committed to growth and change, and most importantly-to education.

I don't see the kind of "fascist tendencies" you are so concerned with, though of course, I agree that this is the most divided the US has been in decades.

But my greater fear, as are many of my friends, is that of apathy, and complacency. Therein lies the real threat.

The US is built on strife. There have been clashes of thought since it's inception. That it's all on a larger scale now due to the amount of power, money, and the influence of technology which directly affects each citizen, is pretty apparent.

But I have (for some incomprehensible reason, I often think) faith in the millions of people who live and work in the country of my birth, who are still both willing and able to get themselves up, dust themselves off, and start all over again.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:27 PM

I have some thoughts... : )~"PPPLLLLLLLBBBBBB!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM

Emjay,

I too am a proud Liberal. Speaking the truth may alienate some.

9/11 was long time in the works. The Trade Center was bombed before.
It has been a recurring nightmare.


I support you. You are honest and I feel from your post that I really know who you are.

I have more comments later on what you said. It was great!

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Some thoughts about the election
From: dianavan
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 08:49 PM

Lets face it. Both the Democrats and the Republicans are in the minority. What you have is about 25% of the population (either way) determining the fate of the majority. The best anyone can do, at this point, is mobilize the inactive citizenry, protest against the Iraqi invasion, seek investigation into voting fraud and reduce, reuse and recycle. Start over and get it right. If you snooz, you lose.

d