BS: Foxhunting Banned.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 03:28 PM

Can't have that, can we?

Mark Twain said that golf was a poor excuse to interrupt a good walk.

Thank you for the info on 'snips and source. Also, the recipe on teal. However, I'll just eat the larding and forego the duck.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:13 PM

first and formost - parsnips and apple source. yes. as Gervase said. and they are both DELICIOUS!!!!!!
And I am a millionaire and I plan to be a dictator when I 'grow up' so if anyone would like to be in charge of any countries you'd better be nice to me!!! (slightly irrelevent but I thought I'd mention it! :-p )

Dave - most hunts take place on sundays. hunt subscriptions are not that much - not do you actually have to subscribe for most hunts - just pay for the hunt you plan to go on. and al the people - well thats the people who enjoy galloping arouns the coutryside! or tramping around the countryside on foot!

This thread appears to have drifted back to it's original purpose - how strange... :-)


xLx

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: GUEST,Colyn
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 07:18 AM

As an answer to Folkiedave, it is irrelevant what it might cost to keep a horse and to hunt. If that is a person's interest then they are entitled to spend their money in that manner.
My daughter is the wife of an agricultural labourer, a cowman. She does not smoke, drinks very little and rarely has an evening out. The only holiday she has had in the last 35 years has been the last two years when she stewarded at Sidmouth in order to get a holiday on the cheap. All her spare cash is spent on her equestrian hobby including hunting. That is her choice.
By contrast my brother-in-law is a very well-off business-man who spends much more on a season ticket to a Premier Division football team, plus his travelling and overnight accommodation. That, also, is his choice. It is not for any one of us to tell another how they should spend their money.
Personally I am ambivalent about hunting, other than when the hunters fall off they come to me to patch up their aches and pains. That is my income.
The whole issue is not just about hunting. It has been stated by John Prescott M.P. and Peter Bradley M.P. (see earlier posts) that it is a "class" thing. It is just as much a town versus country thing, particularly as this Government via John Prescott has stated that the countryside "does not matter".
Sure, there are many out there who might live in a country village but they are essentially townsfolk. They work and take their entertainment in the towns and cities. How many of them know the difference between wheat and barley? How many of them could differentiate between a rook and a crow? Equally there are townsfolk who are country people at heart, having had to leave the villages for work in the towns but retaining a love of the countryside and the activities therein.
The point of the foxhunting Bill is not about the fox itself but about "class" and whether or not it is right to dictate to another how they should live or entertain themselves, providing it does no harm to another person or community.
It is a similar issue to the "Two in a bar" legislation.
The animal activists have stated that shooting and fishing will come next. If ever there were classless groups then the shooting and fishing communities would be high on the list.
"I may not agree with what you say but I would defend to the death your right to say it" is a maxim which seems to have been forgotten by many.
Now, if people really want to do something useful, refer to my post of 22 November.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: davidmeredith
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 06:04 AM

Roast hedgehog is delicious.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Gervase
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 05:40 AM

'Snips is parsnips. apple sauce is Bramley apples boiled to a sharp-tasting mush with a couple of cloves - lovely, particularly with fatty stuff like pork.
And teal's delicious if you bard it with bacon and roast it quickly in a very hot oven, so it's still slightly pink.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: darkriver
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:40 AM

oh gawrsh.

I thought this was going to be in line with other of John's posts, and talk about the Hull Foxhunting Band -- a group of ne'er-do-wells doing nowt, striking defiant poses in bullfighter capes, clutching didgeridoos and arguing about curry.

What a disappointment!

doug

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Metchosin
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 04:06 AM

Its the UK brucie, which probably guarantees that 'snips won't be prairie oysters.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:29 AM

"roast 'snips and apple source."

I still wanna know what these things are.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Terry K
Date: 01 Dec 04 - 02:25 AM

Folkiedave - you've missed the whole point as well. If you can manage to read a full sentence you will note that my earlier post says

"I don't do foxhunting, but I don't see it as a big issue either. I just think this government is meddling for meddling's sake".

The emigration thing is my despair about public toilets being turned over to become meeting places for unattached gays to try to get themselves attached, literally, and the fact that first-time trainee burglars are not dissuaded from their activities. Not about foxhunting. You see. Geddit?

Now, of course, if you agree with those things.........

(note to self: why am I bothering to try to explain anything to someone who is so obviously pretending to be a stupid twat in order to wind me up)

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: GUEST,Colyn
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 10:12 PM

Re. the comments from TerryK about homosexual sex in publicloos etc. This law will not apply to heterosexuasls as I have it on good authority that in hios next budget Brown will require all males to be fitted with a sexometer.
This will record all sexual activity on hte basis of speed, time and distance travelled (i.e. fore-and-aft motion), upon which an annual tax will be levied.
Back to foxhunting:- comment from Labour MP Peter Bradley:- "We ought at last to own up to it: the struggle over the Bill was not just about animal welfare and personal freedom. It was class war."
If petty jealousies over how someone makes or spends their money are still paramount in New Labour's "classless society" then perhaps the MP's need to take a look at the results of their years of Government.
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 05:08 PM

Well it has been ages since I visited this one....some interesting posts.

Terry K....I note you are thinking of emigrating. To where pray? And what are the criteria for the country you hope will let you in? Clearly supporting hunting is one. Any more?

Let's assume for a moment that hunting is a good thing. I can see it might take fifteen hounds or even pairs of hounds to catch one small fox..clearly the fox is brainier than the hounds because the hounds have suffered all that interbreeding (bit like the Royal Family I suppose)...but why so many people? The Beaufort had a hundred riders and 50 foot followers when Princess Anne went out with them last week. Never understood that bit. Clearly not about vermin control!!!

Since there are people from all walks of life perhaps someone could give us a rough idea of cost to go hunting on horseback. Hunt subscription per year, vehicle, horsebox, stabling, depreciation on horse, cost of days off work to go hunting etc.....Let's see how much you have to be earning to go hunting on horseback.

I might even get to understand the countryside a bit more.

Best regards,

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 05:01 PM

Well, Laura, take a tip from a colonial: Don't eat teal, because it really does taste like shit. Of course, if there is ever a bad slump in the market, remember to gut it before ya boil it.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM

If i was a millionaire, i'd be living off drugs and groupies. I wouldn't last long...not as a millionaire, anyhoo...

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM

"roast 'snips and apple source."

Neat. What are they?

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:55 PM

Yes, but thats becasue I am a millionaire and I live off duck and roast 'snips and apple source. :-p

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:53 PM

PS It was teal, and they taste like shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:52 PM

You, my deah, seem to have led a sheltered life. The last time I ate duck it was thrown onto a fire to singe the feathers. It was scraped and boiled, and the people with whom I ate it felt lucky to have it. Me too, come to think of it. Potatoes, onion and some carrot; salt and pepper.

Oh, yeah, we gutted it before throwing it into the pot and the dogs ate the guts.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:48 PM

nice.

what - so not even apple source???
what kind of a recipe is that then!

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:42 PM

Good recipe on that site for both cat and rat. I'll try the rat one if I trap anytime soon. Lots of muskrat in Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM

Laura,

Where it says dog think fox. Bon appetit.

Google    Emergency Food Preparation

Baked Dog DiRocco
1 small dog
10 bay leaves or any aromatic spice
1 onion
1 pod hot red pepper
1 GI mess kit spoon salt
black pepper
3 slices bacon

Mike DiRocco, who served three tours in Vietnam, offers a good tip on selecting the best dog for cooking. He says the Vietnamese judge how tender the dog will be by color; a white dog is best, brown second best and lastly a black dog. Skin and clean dog. Remove the glands from under the legs (they have a strong taste, though they are not harmful if eaten). Cut into sections. Put pieces in a pot. Add bay leaves or aromatics, then onion, red pepper and salt. Cover with cold water. Cover pot and boil gently for 30 minutes. Drain meat and discard water and seasonings. Cover again with cold water and boil for 1 hour. Again pour out the water and drain. Cover dog with cold water for a third time and cover pot. Boil gently until tender, about 1 hour. Drain. Put dog in pan. Season with plenty of black pepper and salt if needed. Cover with slices of bacon or fat pork. Put in a clay oven or a covered pan placed in hot coals and covered with coals. Bake for 1-1/2 hours. Make gravy with pan juices.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:32 PM

oh sorry - maybe I was eating a duck not a fox..... :-P

I stick by the redcurrant jelly though!

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:29 PM

It does NOT taste like duck, fer gawd's sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:28 PM

It tastes like duck, with a hint of pork - nice with redcurrant jelly.
:-p

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 03:41 PM

Tastes a bit like dog, but much 'gamier'. Slow simmer or it's tougher than poplar bark. Don't believe these aristocrat types who say it tastes like chicken. T'ain't so.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 03:20 PM

"As anyone brought up in the countryside knows, and as has been said throughout the thread, foxhunting is populated by ordinary people from all walks of life. "

I've been brought up in the countryside, and i've seen absolutely no evidence to support the above statement. Must be all that weed clouding my judgement...

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Terry K
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 02:30 PM

Dianavan, I kid you not - the Blair Government has such a huge majority that they can get away with anything they like. It does not go for hetero's - I suppose on the principle that public loos are all single sex. Or that they are trying to ban heterosexual sex as well as foxhunting!

Their excuse for such a distasteful affront to public decency is that the practice is so widespread that if all the participants were arrested, it would flood the Courts. The answer? - stop it being illegal! Great news for the battle against AIDS.

Like cannabis was de-rated on the drugs register so that they wouldn't have to arrest people any more. Like burglary no longer carries even so much as a fine for a first offence - they get "a caution" - what kind of message does that send to a burglar. And to a burglar's son. And to his son, and so on and so on.

Time to emigrate.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Metchosin
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 04:01 AM

Just out of curiosity....what does fox taste like?

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: dianavan
Date: 30 Nov 04 - 01:38 AM

Sounds like you have your priorities straight, Terry.

...but now I'm curious, you said: "Another fascinating bit of legislation they went through with recently at taxpayers expense was passing a law to make it legal for homosexuals to indulge their sexual practices in public toilets. Just who exactly thought up that little gem?"

How stupid is that? Does that go for hetero's too? Won't they have to build special little 'he and she' rooms to accomodate the lusty?

I don't get it. What was the rationale for such a law and how was it worded? Are you putting me on?

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 06:52 PM

No, Metchosin, you have completely missed the point. Whether or not you think that foxhunting should be banned is of no real importance, no matter what your reasoning. The issue is only about the incredible degree of interference that Blair and his cohorts have inflicted on us. All of the reasons behind the ban are as nought, the goverment have no interest in cruelty to animals, it's simply a bit of cynical political manoeuvering. And no doubt the sheep-like electorate, armed with their stereotypes, will once again completely fall for it.

Personally, I think they should have spent a little more of that time and energy deciding whether it was a good idea to follow a congenital idiot into ill thought out wars at the expense of the loss of who knows how many innocent Afghans and Iraqis.

But for those who believe a few foxes should take priority in the political priority list, so be it.

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:38 PM

I rest my case.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:11 PM

thankyou Terry! I take my hat off to you.
that is what I have been TRYING to say these last... God it feels like years!

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:17 PM

Why should it be any surprise that "ordinary" people from all walks of life would be any less capable of being thick skinned, oblivious or outright sadistic, along with the supposed "best" of them, when it comes to the treatment of animals. After all, to some, mimicry is the highest form of flattery.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 02:28 PM

Banning foxhunting is a sop to the left wing by Blair and New Labour. It will work because the only people who care are those who are naive enough to still think that hunting is a pursuit of the foxhunting stereotype.

It's sad, I know, but I went through the thread to identify some of the dickhead stereotyping that naive people have posted, in order;

"aristocrats, conservative, Charles, upper class, bastards, unspeakable, Rodneys, Charles and Camilla, station in life, a class, the rich, high class incestuous deviances, rich and aristocratic bastards, monied class, scarlet jackets" etc etc. What a load of bollocks.

As anyone brought up in the countryside knows, and as has been said throughout the thread, foxhunting is populated by ordinary people from all walks of life. I would have thought these days that only the really stupid would any longer believe the stereotype.

One guy referred to how they might now have to resort to.....sailing. Sailing? What the fuck does he think sailing has to do with anything -does he think that is another sport that only toffs do? He'd get a shock if he came to my sailing club!

I don't do foxhunting, but I don't see it as a big issue either. I just think this government is meddling for meddling's sake.

Another fascinating bit of legislation they went through with recently at taxpayers expense was passing a law to make it legal for homosexuals to indulge their sexual practices in public toilets. Just who exactly thought up that little gem?

cheers, Terry

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peace
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 08:13 PM

Metchosin: To quote Dianavan, "A+ on the homework."

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: John Routledge
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 11:45 AM

How many people are really concerned with foxhunting? Very few.

So said Deputy Prime Minister - John Prescott - this week.

And we all thought that the ban was about stopping cruelty to foxes.:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 02:12 AM

Guest Colyn, I have no doubt that a "good dog" is capable of snapping the neck of a fox. I know that a "good dog" can also dispatch a more robust prey in the same manner. I also know from "intimate experience", that even with "good dogs", things can and do go awry and subsequently, things can get a bit "messy", particularly with a pack.
      
Initially when I looked at this thread, from all the sturm und drang regarding the red fox, I was under the impression that the rural areas of the UK had been over run by foxes and that the animal was somehow a very serious predator that caused a lot of economic hardship.

When I looked further, according to data from the UK's own DEFRA, the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland and other recent studies, the damage to agriculture caused by the fox is rated as insignificant and apparently there was no change with this "insignificant" problem when the Hunt was banned because of BSE.

I also discovered in my search that artificial earths are quite commonly constructed and foxes are sometimes fed at these manufactured dens, to ensure a healthy population of foxes. This sounds like a pretty bizarre method of predator control to me.

In this context, "The Hunt" as a form of pest control, looks rather like an animated version of a Heath Robinson or Rube Goldberg contraption. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Wotcha
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 12:39 AM

"Poor Tommy's Dead

Grey Goose, Gone Home,

And the Fox is away, Oh!

In the morning ..."



Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 05:17 PM

"Ain't no delinquents, we're misunderstood!
Deep down inside us there is good!"
- West Side Story

yeh!

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:29 PM

Boxhunting fanned? Won't that make any fire in the boxes worse and make them harder to hunt? What if they burn all the boxes and there are none left to hunt?

Scary thought...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:28 PM

"But I'm just a poor misguided teenager. No - I'm misunderstood! hahaha."

I understand you...but then i'm a misguided teenager, too...:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 03:23 PM

GREAT NEWS

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:19 PM

But I'm just a poor misguided teenager. No - I'm misunderstood! hahaha.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 04:18 PM

Well - it's more a fact that the horse in question is far more experienced in the hunting field (ha. ha.) than I am - which could go either way.
Apologies if I seemed umm... hostile. I was being defensive - but then you did say I'm an idiot!!! And you appeared to be loosely basing your argument on my comments, and presenting your opinions as though they were fact.
I think I am more against the idea of the government going around banning things - I mean, where does it stop? But hunting is something that has always looked quite fun - I don't care enough to break the law once it's banned - so I shall go while I still have the chance. Even if I'm a bit nervous!
And having re-read your post I almost feel inclined to withdraw my goodwill! You implied you would rather I died.
Humph.
:-~

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 03:30 PM

Apologies Laura, you didn't say cuddly. You said "I like foxes as much as the next person, very cute, very lovely." But it's a small distinction, I would have thought - not enough to put any logic into your enthusiasm for joining the hunt. As for your hosreriding skills, it is possible to be a good rider yet still not confident to follow hounds. I thought this was where you were at, purely on the evidence of your own posts. I won't look it up now,but I thought you said somewhere that because of the forthcoming ban you would now join a hunt, even though you would have preferred to leave it a while yet. Have I got that wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: *Laura*
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 10:37 AM

Fionn - don't pretend you know me.
Or anything about me.
You have no idea why I feel this way about foxhunting, or how competent I am on a horse. (which, for the benefit or the argument, is about twelve years worth of riding - competent enough for you?)
You're making up what you want to say on the basis of a few things I've said on here. (if you can point out exactly where I said foxes were cuddly I'd be grateful.)
If you have to resort to insults you obviously don't have any valid points to make and therefore should keep out of the discussion unless you have something constructive to say.
Don't patronize me.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 05:33 AM

The hunting fraternity are NOT blissfully ignorant, they know well that farmers have been rode rough-shod, without asking any permission, and as for those crack-shot Yanks, well, if they miss their prey they make up for it by shooting a human, it`s called "friend in the line of fire".

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:40 PM

"Hunt do not ride rough-shod over land over which they do not have permission, "

Sorry, but they've done it to me. Three times, in fact...

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: GUEST,Colyn
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 08:11 PM

Obviously people are never going to agree about the rights and wrongs of hunting. Unfortunately too many people seem to be able to express an opinion, and seek to tell others what they should do, without ever having been near a hunt, let alone having been at the kill. All they might have seen is edited highlights from a newscast or propaganda film produced by either side.
I have seen my own single dog kill a fox with one bite in the neck. Any half-decent dog should be able to do that, otherwise give the dog to a "townie" as a fashion statement.
Hunt do not ride rough-shod over land over which they do not have permission, otherwise the laws of trespass are flouted. Farmers invite the hunts to their land. If the hounds stray where they are not wanted they are called off immediately.
Previous comments regarding the "class issue" seem again to have been made using surmise rather than knowledge. Hunt members cone from all walks of life, as widely varied as folkies, football fans or any other interest. It is purely because it makes good TV news to state that a member of the aristocracy has been hunting, or to interview Colonel Double-Barrelled for a news feature. My daughter, the wife of an agricultural labourer, hunts and she spends less on her horse and hunting than many of you might spend on watching first-team football.
Regarding the shooting of foxes, yes, the majority of those shot are put up by coincidence and often the gun is loaded with too light a cartridge, the shooter not expecting to see a fox. If the fox is "pricked" it will likely die of gangrene, it's only natural enemy. That is a most painful death I would not wish on any creature.
Use of a rifle in UK, compared with a shotgun, is very strictly controlled and there have been cases where the police will not allow use of a rifle due to proximity of public footpaths. The "right to roam" legislation and insistence upon ancient rights of way being left open has made this problem more acute. One cannot compare the situation in UK with that of any other country. We have recently had situations in this country where an army of armed police with helicopter support have descended on perfectly legal clay-pigeon shooters because some member of the public heard spent shot falling and assumed they were the target!
Yes, let's have the Scottish system. The same number of hunts before and after the legislation and more foxes killed. I wonder how they manage it?
Colyn

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Metchosin
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 07:11 PM

Peter K (Fionn) Thank you for confirming my suspicions that what I have observed happening here to raccoons and housecats, beset by a pack of hounds, is similar to what happens in the UK, with regard to foxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Foxhunting Banned.
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:04 PM

I think Folkiedave must have misread Ketih's comment that "what happens next hardly matters." My difficulty with what Keith said is that though it may be true that a fox is dead within one (presumably unpleasant) minute of being seized by a hound, this is not what happens in a foxhunt. Hounds get in each other's way, they are frantic with excitement and sometimes they even catch each other with their teeth. It is not unknown for the fox, similarly frantic for other reasons, to break loose and make a yard or two before being re-seized. Neither is it unknown for the fox to be despatched by being stretched to tearing point between two sets of jaws.

In response to Gervase and Metchosin, I do agree that opportunity shooting by amateurs - eg farmers armed with shotguns aiming at moving targets - would be a whooly unsatisfactory substitute for the hunt, and I would be delighted if such practice was banned ahead of hunting with hounds. Lamping is a different proposition, not least because the marksmen are there specifically for the purpose, with appropriate rifles, and will not usually be aiming at moving targets.