BS: The Dilemma

Subject: BS: The Dilemma
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 08:25 AM

Dutch Try to Thwart Terror Without Being Overzealous

This article says it all about the terrible dilemma facing western countries right now.

if you're not registered with the NY Times (a free service, like mudcat!) it takes two mins to read a very interesting article.
here's some excerpts:

MSTERDAM, Nov. 18 - His telephone was tapped, his apartment was watched and many of his friends were already behind bars, so the Dutch authorities were not surprised by evidence that it was Mohamed Bouyeri, a Dutchman of Moroccan descent, who murdered the filmmaker Theo van Gogh in broad daylight one morning this month. Yet they had been powerless to stop the crime. It is a problem faced by most European governments as radical Islam spreads across the Continent: how to arrest suspected militants before they act, without trampling on individual rights or risking charges of discrimination.

The government of the Netherlands has come under criticism for missing Mr. Bouyeri when Islamist death threats were made against Mr. van Gogh. But stopping him would have meant assessing guilt before the crime, Justice Minister Jan Piet Hein Donner said in an interview.
"You're dealing with processes that take place in one's head," Mr. Donner said. "We can't arrest people for wearing certain clothes."

...The Netherlands has since enacted a law making it a crime to conspire to commit a terrorist act. Like the rest of Europe, the country is gradually strengthening laws to thwart terrorists. Mr. Donner has asked for legislation to lower the threshold required for the police to hold suspects before they are charged - he wants suspicion alone to be enough.

He said the Netherlands was also going beyond many countries in Europe by seeking to allow prosecutors to use intelligence reports as evidence without revealing their source. "We are doing things that would be unthinkable in many other countries," he said.
But, he added, it is important to distinguish between terrorist cases and normal criminal cases in drafting new laws, "so that we don't infect the whole criminal law by relaxing the rules of evidence in these cases."

Countries in Europe with little experience of terrorism lag behind those, like Britain, France and Spain, that have faced terrorist threats before. Britain's 2001 Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act allows indefinite detention of foreigners suspected of terrorist-related activities.

Subject: RE: BS: The Dilemma
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:02 AM

Its not just the Governments that face the Dilemma - Look at the Black watch , facing an enquiry for shooting a guy they say they thought was a suicide bomber !! Having been in a 'Terrorist ' war zone myself , where , thank the Lord we DIDNT have suicide bombers , all I can do is sit back and wonder what the world is coming to .

Subject: RE: BS: The Dilemma
From: freda underhill
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 09:16 AM

Yes, its everywhere, Leadfingers, I agree, not just the Dutch govt. and the burden on the military is huge.

Subject: RE: BS: The Dilemma
From: GUEST,SueB
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:04 AM

No dilemma here, freda - we feel "uncomfortable" with anyone, we just send 'em on over to Guantanamo for a little holiday. Also, even though we bend over backwards to avoid racial profiling at airport security, we have no compunctions about gender profiling - did you catch Maureen Dowd's article in the IHT about "complimentary" breast exams?

Subject: RE: BS: The Dilemma
From: Boab
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:27 AM

Re. the Black Watch incident; young guys who get involved, not always of their own volition, in maelstroms of cruelty and violence such as the gawd-awful tragedy in Iraq are liable to find themselves in the heat of any incident of violence and danger having to make a guess at the intentions of the man they find suddenly confronting them. Sadly,too often an innocent ends up being the victim. Don't blame the squaddies ; blame the pukes who sent them in there.

Subject: RE: BS: The Dilemma
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:39 AM

Slippery slope, freda, slippery slope.

Thanks for the article.

..xx..e