Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?

Subject: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 10:17 AM

There's been many a discussion about the decline of folk music, the apparent death of folk festivals or the demise of traditional folk music for example, but I must confess to being rather bemused by it all. Maybe it's time to point in the direction of our beloved folk clubs and try to get some handle on what is really happening.

If there's enough interest out there - this should roll on for quite a while:

Nothing scientific in terms of research here, but I'm genuinely interested to hear your views -
    For example:
What's the current state of health of your local club(s)?
Which clubs are thriving and why?
Which clubs are diving and why?
What type of music is represented? - what's the main emphasis?
Which is your favourite club?

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: breezy
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:26 AM

folks will all quote the club they attend.

I attend many clubs in the course of a year, but only 3-4 on a regular basis

Some clubs hardly book guests, some once every 5-6 weeks, others alternate weeks

Our St Albans 'Windward' folk-song club Fridays, and its satellite club the 'Spotlight' club on Sundays book a guest every week.

The Friday club has a strong resident basis,books national 'names' and floor spots are only given to recognised performers. The Sunday club is open to all and books local acts.

The friday club began operating Oct 2001 and attendences have varied from 11 to over 60 depending on the pulling power of the artiste.The Sunday club averages 15 attendees. Lowest ever was 9 highest 22

the clubs run during term time and close for all school holidays, that way we avoid becoming tedious, we can then re-charge batteries and stay dynamic thus retaining interest.

we pride ourselves in being a welcoming and relaxed club as vouched for by several of our guests.

We listen to all styles inc Jazz blues, singer-songwriter, trad

see our website for more info

www.folk4all.net

This Sunday we Spotlight Jim Faupel, very different!at the Roya; British legion Verulam Road st Albans, floor spots welcome but do arrive in plenty of time. Doors open 7.30

We believe in giving value for money, after all, punters dont want to pay to watch and listen to poor performers, if they do then they will stop coming, and its the general public we are aiming for not the dedicated folkie, although many of them appear to prefer to attend free sessions rather than support a folk 'club' with admission charges and guests.

Hope this gets the thread going

the hairy one hath spoke

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: treewind
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:26 AM

I take it you've seen this thread: The Role of Folk Clubs Today? There's a lot of answers there especially to the "why?" part of your questions.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:37 AM

I haven't - but I will, thanks

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:52 AM

I guess Folk Clubs like any other are the product of their members. If your Club seems poor...do something about it!! If you can't, then find another one..... that suits you.
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:01 PM

When I think of folk clubs in this day and age...

where a trillion dollar industry is trying to convince people that music is a commodity which consumers must purchas from professional providers if they wish to get anything worthwhile...

I can only quote Dr. Johnson
"Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: beetle cat
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 06:15 PM

I've just come to Newfoundland from NY, and I'm amazed by the number of fellow young people in the scene here. I have no answers for sure, but I think it has a lot to do with regional pride. Now the only traditional song I can think of that makes me feel proud to be from NY is New York Girls, (yes we really are tougher than the other side of hell). But here, the lists go on and on and on and on. Coming to a folk club here is a way of saying "I'm from Newfoundland, and I'm damn proud of it". It's good stuff. That being said, I love the NY scene.. but I'm off The Ship now.. to do some singing. see ya.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: beetle cat
Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:49 PM

Ya, so I just got back from the Ship, and it was good, but I find that the scene is very tight.. like, they are not as welcoming to newcomers as they could be. It's thriving nonetheless, but I wonder if other folk clubs are like this, as I haven't been to many.

So.. Is it a good sign or a bad one if you actually have to have talent to play at a folk club???

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: Boab
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 01:08 AM

Strange question, Beetle cat! I think there's an answer which should clear things up, however. If your local club insists that you must have "talent" in order to claim a floor spot, they are on a par with the soccer team which sends out the same "talented" players every match. That works just fine---until the talented players start running out of breath in their old age. Management then regrets not having a "nursery" of fresh talent. Your folk club is in similar trouble if the aspiring performers are not given a chance to meet the public. A well-run club will have an M.C. who knows how to structure an evening's "ongoings" so that a reservoir of established and talented performers can be used [and I use the term advisedly] to allow "first-timers" or those who are hopefully building a reputation from scratch to present their material to the membership/public. Some will never be able to impress, --but some will go from strength to strength and become stalwarts of your club, and even attain national fame. Believe me, I have seen it happen--more than once. I think some Catters might remember Edi Reader's comment that "Boab" was the first guy to give her a floor spot in a club. I think that proves my point? Good luck in your future associations with your music, Beetle cat!

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: breezy
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:21 AM

May I suggest you ring in advance to 'book' a floor spot?

Way back when,60s, a well known folk-singer/club organiser would audition singers before he let them loose. His club thrived because quality was important.

That is why we operate 2 clubs , one is a springboard for t'other.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 11:35 AM

Well - so much for my amateur attempt at research.

Better answer my own questions:

3 Clubs in Sheffield:

Current state – very healthy

Thriving –         Wortley Arms: Monthly – usually £5 - guests + floor singers.
Why: – Great MC (natural comedian); long-established; great audience (50 or 60 regulars); quality guests/floor-spots; decent ale; great room/atmosphere
Music: No main emphasis – all types of folk music

Rivelin Hotel: Weekly – ash-tray pass around (usually £1) – very occasional guests.
Why: - Rotated MC's; long-established; very friendly/sociable; 25 regulars; very open 'come all ye' attitude; mini-showcase forum for fledgling performers; good room/atmosphere
Music: Anything goes – from Trad Folk to R 'n B and back again

Wentworth Arms: Weekly – Concert type - usually £5 – quality guests + floor singers
Why: Very long-established reputation/award winner
Music: All types of folk/blues

And others too numerous to mention.

Diving - only 1 or 2 , and they keep coming up for more…..

Favourite Club: Wortley Arms - a formula that needs bottling and exporting in large numbers apparently

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 01:02 PM

There are two reasons people enjoy listening to a floor singer. It might be because they are good singers, or rather, good at putting a song across (not quite the same thing). The other is that they come up with interesting songs that other people haven't been singing.

In my experience most times people who aren't too good at the actual singing make up for it in their choice of song, and are well appreciated.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: breezy
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 03:38 PM

well at least you tried.

Good for Sheffield,

The choice of evening may be a factor

Do punters cross pollinate to all 3 clubs?

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:06 PM

Market Rasen Folk Club

45 minute spotlight guest + support artists £2 entrance

or

Main Guest (90 minutes) + support artists £4 entrance

9 months old

Thriving and becoming well established

Is it a good club? You need to ask the artists and listeners.

Personally I think it is very good, but then I am biased :-)

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 04:56 PM

I remember 30 years ago when I started singing that people were banging on about the decline of folk music, no good new singers, soon the scene will be dead etc... 30 years later, whats changed?
People are still banging on about the demise of the scene and it's still as healthy as it ever was... As Dale Carnegie said, STOP WORRYING AND START LIVING!

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: treewind
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:00 PM

Yes, the reason why Market Rasen is doing well is because the organiser is putting a huge effort into making it work!

That's probably all all it needs - commitment, hard work and reasonably sensible ideas about how to run it.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: beetle cat
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:47 PM

Yeah, Jim, sorry for sort of getting off topic..
but thanks everyone. McGrath of Harlow, that is so true!

I guess it's just a bit of a culture shock to go from a 'session', or 'circle' folk scene to a "club" folk scene. The difference is in the audience/performer roles.   I suppose it would be shocking the other way around too.

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 09 Dec 04 - 05:58 PM

i attend 2 folk clubs on a regular basis Nellies which is more traditional and cottingham live which is not limited to folk music-both doing very nicely thankyou with guests every two weeks which are well attended. If anything we have a surplus of folk music in this area including sessions weekdays and every weekend and and Hull folk club as well. Sometimes I think we may be spreading ourselves too thinly, but then the sessions are always packed and the folk clubs well attended so perhaps, s I guess we are very very lucky. we do have a balanced mix of musicians/singers in the area in addition to two local community choirs-guess we just can't get enough music!

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 12:24 PM

"The choice of evening may be a factor

Do punters cross pollinate to all 3 clubs? "

Maybe - Saturday night for the Wortley; Friday for the Rockingham Arms (Wentworth) - obviously popular nights, but Wednesday for the Rivelin, and a Monday club that's well attended too. Every night of the week is represented in a relatively small area (certainly by USA standards!!) and most seem to do well.

Cross pollinate all 3 clubs? - No

Subject: RE: Folk Clubs - Good, Bad or Ugly?
From: breezy
Date: 10 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM

Ta jim lad