What Is the Best First Instrument?

Subject: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 03:05 PM

I know, I know, different instruments depending on different people, But to make enemies, I think the recorder is a dreadful instrument to start on, it is so shrill and bitty. The piano is fearsomely difficult.   My vote is for the mbira (thumb piano) -- I was in a music shop the other day, and there were five year olds playing quite happily on the mbira -- it has percussion, tinkly tunes, and you can make very sophisticated melodies with your hands, and you can carry it around. I think the saxophone would be next -- you can make all kinds of big noise really easy, much better than a recorder, Ukelele? Harmonica is pretty good, though the blues is a bit tricky.....

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 03:07 PM

Accordion. It's a whole orchestra in a box.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 03:12 PM

Hmm. It has to be a small one. These big Chryslers kids carry around are bizarre. The bellows is fun. Why no one has invented an electric accordion that lets you play different instrument sounds (like your average keyboard), I do not know.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 03:15 PM

Voice.

If you can talk you can sing.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 03:21 PM

Why deny that it is truly the guitar?

It is where most people start I would think.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:33 PM

I seem to recall hearing many professionals, music teachers and classical musicians saying at various times that the best place to start is piano...

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 05:33 PM

It is the instrument that can capture the person's imagination, and which will give easy rewards in those first few weeks, and then present challenges when the young musician is genuinely hooked.

With me, it was the harmonica. It is easy to pick out a few tunes by ear, so that you have something to play in between "serious" practising.

At the other end of the scale would be something like the violin or trombone where it can take weeks simply to produce a decent note in tune.

The guitar is perhaps the most versatile, and has the advantage of being suitable for almost every genre of music, from folk to country to rock and roll to heavy rock to classical.

It helps if there are obvious role models and plenty of inspiring stuff to listen to. (My own problem here is that most harmonica that you I is blues and country style (bending the notes, playing on the draw and so on) or, if "straight", played on tremelo tuned instruments.)

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Mooh
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 06:33 PM

I figured there would be different opinions on this issue.

For what it's worth, piano. Without exception, the students I get for guitar (etc) lessons are much better prepared if they've had a couple of years of piano first, even if there's been a lapse. Other instrumental, voice, or theory lessons don't hurt either, but the piano students always seem to be ahead of the game.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: freightdawg
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 08:01 PM

From never having done it, I would say learning piano would be the best place to start.

I started with guitar, and outside of maybe the mandolin and the banjo, have never really wanted to learn anything else. But I have learned through the years that if I had a better understanding of the basics of music, I would understand the guitar better. I think the piano is the best place to get the mechanics.

Every music major I have talked to says the same thing. They may be majoring in voice, violin or guitar, but they all have to be at least functionally proficient on the piano. If all major music departments think the piano is so foundational there must be some reason for it.

Trouble with me was/is, I can't get one paw to go one way and the other paw to go the other. What I wouldn't give to be ambi-pawxderous.

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 08:04 PM

I really like that the posts are about which instrument people should start on and not whether they should start. I think everybody should learn at least one. At least.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 09:14 PM

Not intending to be sexest, however, the best first instument for males may be found at:
://www.circlist.com/instrstechs/history.html

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Nancy King
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 09:17 PM

I agree with those who say piano is best to learn the basics. As a friend of mine once pointed out, "it's all laid out in front of you in black and white."

When I was a kid, I took piano lessons for only two years (got through "Teaching Little Fingers to Play" and "Thompson's First Grade Book") before my mother, the piano teacher and I all agreed there was not much point in continuing. BUT even that little bit gave me a (very) basic understanding of scales, sharps and flats, and reading music. I can still pick out a tune on a keyboard if I have to -- a useful skill -- though I certainly can't "play" the piano.

We all had "melody flutes" in grade school, and I tried playing the cello for a while, and have dabbled a bit with the guitar for many years, but I know those early piano lessons were the foundation.

Nancy

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Mitch the Bass
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 11:03 AM

Peter T said (of accordions):
Hmm. It has to be a small one. These big Chryslers kids carry around are bizarre. The bellows is fun. Why no one has invented an electric accordion that lets you play different instrument sounds (like your average keyboard), I do not know.

Have a look at the Roland Virtual Accordion http://www.roland.com/products/en/FR-7/. My accomplice Dr. Stradling has recently acquired one. When playing for Scottish dances this damn piper keeps chiming in.

Mitch

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 12:44 PM

Well, I'll be damned. Of course it weighs 25 pounds (!) and probably costs a million dollars (the site has no prices). I was thinking small and portable, but it is a start. I mean the traditional accordion is built like some 19th century weavers loom.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:21 PM

Piano *lessons* provide an incomparable background in music theory, even for those who never actually learn to *play* the piano with any degree of competance. Most of us can probably agree on this.

However, the piano is not always a practical choice for a first instrument, especially for a child. (Given the time of year, I assume that this question relates to the best musical present for a young person not already playing an instrument.) The piano is bulky and expensive (for anyone), and (for really small children) requires hands large enough to play it.

Depending upon age and size, the best first instrument for a given child might be any number of things. Cost is definitely a factor when there is doubt whether the recipient will develop a serious interest.

~ Instruments the player blows into or strikes with a mallet are generally better suited to small players with small hands than are stringed instruments that must be fretted and keyboard instruments requiring a certain degree of "reach."

~ Instruments that seem appropriately simple at first glance may be *too* simple -- frustrating for anyone trying to play. I'm thinking of the 8-key toy xylophone here; a child may be capable of picking out tunes by ear, but may quit trying after attempting too many tunes requiring sharps or flats or notes above or below the single available octave. A toy piano (if not a "real" keyboard of some kind) with black keys and two to three octaves would be more satisfactory for a kid with that level of interest and/or talent.

~What about scaled-down versions of standard instruments, like 3/4 size guitars -- any comments?

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:29 PM

Piano.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,kbraun
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:43 PM

In the abstract, piano is a great choice. In real life, the question is frequently what is the best instrument for Bill or Sue. You need to take into acount who Bill or Sue is.

I started out on saxophone, something I had a passion for. It served me well because of the passion, not because it is a great instrument. My son started out on piano. He gave that up to imitate me and is trying the saxophone. He is eleven and a very "manly" child (sports, cars, action movies, with lots of pals and buddies). He has a PVC flute in the bathroom and some of the best music eminating from our house (everyone plays or sings) comes from his extraordinary long baths. He rarely practices the sax and there are 9 saxophones and only two flutes in his school band. Of course he will have nothing to do with suggestions that he switch to flute. I'm just greatful that he gets in 30 to 40 minutes of playing every day and year 'round-- without sheet music too. And that is on top of band rehearsal, which he enjoys.

Anyway, for me it was sax. For my boy it has been piano, recorder, sax and now PVC flute. Who knows what's next?

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:04 PM

The piano has 7 white notes and 5 black notes.
The rest are all octaves covering all of these same notes.

It's not rocket science...but requires the RIGHT teacher to simplfy the learning process and motivate you - although you should NEVER take up an instrument unless YOU have the motivation to learn. If practising feels like work or is a chore, you've chosen the wrong hobby.

You have ALL the elements of a full symphony orchestra encompassing everything else right down to a solo monophonic note making machine --- at your fingertips. Piano IS the foundation that everything else builds on.

If you're fortunate enough to learn piano first (and preferably at an early age) then it makes learning any other subsequent instrument inherently easier.

To me instruments are like women.
They're all the same and they're all different. :-)

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 10:35 PM

Kalimba (factory-made African "thumb piano"):
- small,
- cheap,
- logical (you can "see" high & low),
- you can sing with it,
- the tines next to each other are in harmony,
- it's hard to make it sound bad,
- tends to stay in tune,
- sturdy,
- relatively rare,
- has a great sound, and
- can be tuned to different scales.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: open mike
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 04:48 AM

when i was in school the 4th graders all played Tonettes, which were
small plastic flutes, like recorders. this apparently was determined
by the school system at the time to be a good instrument to start out on.
The piano, it is true, is quite linear, and a good way to see the relationships, intervals, etc. but is large, heavy, cumbersome and
too expensive for some . Many kids start out on violin, with the
Suzuki method before they are 5 years old. This seems to be quite a good way...Suzuki explains music as a language, and the younger you are when you learn it the better you can learn. Both my kids were Suzuki students and i believe it gave them a great understanding and appreciation for music.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,banjoman
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 06:38 AM

start with a flute, then when you are good enough progress on to the recorder - a much malignes instrument which is a far superior instrument in the right hands. It was never intended to be a childs beginner instrument.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Joybell
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 06:47 AM

Piano, is the one we both recomend too. We show beginners how to chord and sing with it right off, along with the tune playing and the theory. Then we see which way the student wants to go. It's much easier to see how chords work on a piano. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 07:00 AM

I'd go for guitar because it's versatile, easy to get a good sound out of, looks cool (very important for kids, a lot of the time), and portable. Also, you can, with a bit of searching, get one that sounds good but isn't too expensive, which makes it easier to bear if it gets broken or the kid loses interest.

My brother has a 3/4 size guitar, it's perfectly playable. It might be better to get a nylon-strung one for very young children, as steel strings can hurt the fingers and that's not exactly encouraging...and i'm sure kids' curiousity could lead to some pretty creative ways to injure themselves on steel strings...
One thing i think is important, is to get one where the distance between the frets hasn't been scaled down with the rest of the guitar, as this might get confusing if and when the person gets a full sized one.

Also, a good teacher is important, no matter what the instrument is. Doesn't matter if they're paid, or just a friend who can play... they have to be able to get the pupil interested, or the kid will just give up.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 07:39 AM

Guitar has certain advantages (like being portable and easily tuned), but I think it's easier to learn the basics of music on the piano. Everything is laid out in "single file", black and white. Piano is an easier instrument to handle physically too. At least you don't have to hold it while you play it! Guitars are bulky and awkward at first, and each hand must be trained quite differently.
Better than violin though -- at least a guitar has frets to guide intonation!   

A lot of my students start out on keyboards now, which has it's advantages. Keyboards never need tuning and take up much less space than a piano. I encourage parents to avoid the little "toy" models though, and opt for a mid-range keyboard with at least 5 octaves of regular-sized, touch-sensitive (ie you can play loud or soft) keys, and a minumum of distracting sounds and buttons. That way it will last the kids at least a couple years - but if they want to continue studying piano seriously of course they will eventually need the "whole" instrument!

Real pianos have a better action and a much more pleasing sound though - as long as they're properly maintained and tuned. You wouldn't believe how many families I've dealt with over the years who'd spend thousands on hockey equipment, video games and vacations without batting an eye, but try to convince them to upgrade or even spend $60 to tune and fix the old clunker Grandma sent all the way from Timbucktoo??? NOT!! *sigh* So many times I've heard "Oh I know it's not in good shape, but it's just fine to start on ..." Well, would you give your kid a rusty old bike with the wheels falling off it, tell him "ok kid, learn to ride!" and then expect him to like it???

Can't count how many times I've heard "Your piano sounds so much different than mine!" or "WoW - it sounds so much better when I play it here!" I tell them "yeah. It's because mine's in tune." It's frustrating to try to play an instrument when half the keys don't work, or when they do you hear 6 tones instead of one, or it sounds like doo-doo no matter what you do .... and they quit. So much for "it's fine to start on - and we'll get a nice piano in a few years if he's serious".    :-(

Anyway, thanks for letting me get that off my chest. 27 years of watching kids struggle with and give up on the old clunkers'll do it to ya. And one more thought - I think the easiest instrument for a child to learn is the recorder!

daylia

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Pauline L
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:20 PM

I never studied piano but I agree that it would be a good place to start for the reasons cited. My mother wouldn't buy a piano because of the size and price. As for the disadvantages of size and price, there are now electronic keyboard instruments.

I also agree with the people who said the best instrument to start on is one you want to start on, not the one your parents picked for you to start on.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: bbc
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 09:48 PM

Perhaps, generally speaking, piano is best. For me, 5 years of lessons as a child just convinced me I couldn't play an instrument. Approximately 40 years later, a friend suggested that I try the autoharp & I was pleasantly surprised to find that I could sense what chords to play & had an instrument that could accompany my singing. Piano just made me feel like a failure.

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,slickerbill
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 11:03 PM

While I tend to jump to the guitar side of things, I'd say one to consider beside the above would be a hand drum of some sort. They come in all shapes and sizes, a starter like bongos or a small djembe aren't too expensive, they're portable and it teaches time. Rhythm seems to me to be one of the first things to catch a kid's attention, and you can play along to so much stuff. bd

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 12:01 AM

Well in the words of Glenda The Good Witch of the North....start at the begining. And....hmmm I think Maria said it too....start at the very begining its a very good place to start. NOW that said, where you start kind of depends on where you want to end up now doesnt it. Where do you want the music to take you? What do you want to achieve?

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Tradsinger
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 04:58 AM

Why has no one mentioned the melodeon? It's a lot simpler to play than the accordeon and you can learn by ear or by picking up a few tips from friends.

Gwilym

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,Seaking
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 06:07 AM

Guitar or melodeon are good first instruments because the enjoyment that can be gained after learning a few simple tunes and basic chords can be a great motivator, requiring hours rather than months of practise to be able to start enjoying making 'real' music. However, both my children started on the violin and went through the usual pain barrier of learning all the scales, understanding sharps, flats and different keys . It was only when they started to learn the piano that suddenly everything slotted into place, simply because they could visualise what they were doing with relation to the keyboard, black notes, white notes, sharps, flats, etc.

Any instrument is a good one to start on if it's the one you want to learn but I would also recommend learning at least some basic piano at the same time.

Chris

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,Jean Philips
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 07:40 AM

In defence of the recorder, it's a fine instrument when played well, and very underrated. It seems to have acquired a bad reputation from being played tunelessly in the school orchestra.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:24 AM

Best for what?

How can you know where to start if you don't have any idea where you want to go?

Why wouldn't you start with the instrument that makes the music you want to hear?

Why wouldn't you start by trying to emulate a musician that sets your fields on fire?

Why wouldn't you start with an instrument that you think you could spend a lifetime with?

Why would you start with an instrument that is basically a musical dead end like a kalimba?

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: 42
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:26 AM

Jumping into this fray...I didn't play any instrument(other than the obligatory two years of piano torture as a child) until I picked up an autoharp for my classroom.

From there I bought a lap dulcimer, banjo, several guitars, a mandolin, bowed psaltery, fiddle and some esoteric instruments that don't appear to have names.

The autoharp is great for learning chords and makes transposing keys on future instruments a breeze. I don't play it much anymore but hold it in high regard.

The lap dulcimer is so easy that a five year old can play a tune by accident when it's tuned D A DD.

my two cents

jen

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:32 AM

A five manual church organ. Smashing!

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,The Beast of Farlington
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:40 AM

Guest Russ wrote:

Best for what?

"How can you know where to start if you don't have any idea where you want to go?

Why wouldn't you start with the instrument that makes the music you want to hear?

Why wouldn't you start by trying to emulate a musician that sets your fields on fire?

Why wouldn't you start with an instrument that you think you could spend a lifetime with?

Why would you start with an instrument that is basically a musical dead end like a kalimba?"

A good call. I started out at 8 years old on the Clarinet, encouraged by my parents who liked Acker Bilk! But I liked to sing and gravitated towards the guitar at 16 because I liked modern music played on guitars. Wish I had started earlier.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: *daylia*
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 08:45 AM

Here's a "different" selection of percussion instruments for kids of all ages . Scroll down to the frog at the bottom of the page - Raptor gave me one a few months ago and I love it!

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:45 AM

Another vote here for the harmonica!

Pianos are quite expensive and difficult to slip into your pocket. Guitars hurt the fingers of new players, causing them never to play again.

But with a harmonica tou've got a cheap instrument that's quite easy to play - you may well have a tune like Oh Susanna! off within minutes. And it doesn't stop there. You can learn to play cross-harp blues stuff, harmony/chord-type accompaniment, expressive solos. And all the time you're learning the harmonica, you're putting in time on the melodeon 'cos the notes work the same. And if you don't continue playing, you've only lost a few (insert local monetary unit here)s.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 10:23 AM

Here's a vote for the xylophone. One thing all kids do is hit things. With a good xylophone [at least 2 octaves], there will normally be combinations of sound. It's fully chromatic and uses the same 'keyboard' as the piano. If the child has any interest at all, melodies will develop naturally without the need of teaching. Then, when the time to teach arrives, transition is easy.

In addition, it can be sold for about what you paid for it if the child outgrows it.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,Larry Boy Pratt
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 03:31 PM

Harmonica by far. The harmonica is said to be the easiest instrument to learn and the hardest to master. You can learn about scales, chords, melody, rhythm. Its simple to play, early success keeps you interested. Its small and portable, you can play it anywhere. It's a very versatile instrument in terms of music types. Its much more than blues and country tunes. I have many CDs of bluegrass, traditional Irish, Klezmer, Zydeco, Jazz and Classical music.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 02:24 AM

I had to learn accordeon when ten years of age. I started with a small one, and when I grew bigger I got a real great one with 120 basses.
For four years I got a solid theoretical basis which is still valid today. I think it is the right instrument to teach music theory best with all its ramifications, and smaller specimens are easy to transport.
Recorders are more for melodies alone; to get harmonies you have to play in groups from bass recorders to the very little pipe (an octave above the soprano). They are easy to play and give the beginner soon a feeling for achievement. But alas! Most of the kids stop playing the recorders when leaving school! I carried a sopranino (aka "battle recorder") in the breast pocket of my BDU. But my younger daughter (the beautiful singer) still plays the recorder, and well. She surprised me playing some of my favourite songs at my 60th birthday with the help of a friend playing the 2nd parts.
The training with the accordeon made my tender artist fingers flexible and apt to change to guitar which is also a good instrument to start. I also changed to guitar because of the wonderful sound and the renaissance pieces I taught my self to pluck.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Peter T.
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 06:34 AM

Thanks to all for their thoughts --
I was really thinking about 5-8 year olds, not adults. The discussion makes me wonder if perhaps the best thing is to let a child loose on a room full of instruments, and see which one they gravitate towards.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 09:03 AM

For 6-8 year olds: Orff's instruments. The children play simple rhythms together on percussion instruments: xylophones, drums, tamburines &c. which give them a first impression of rhythm and harmony. My daughters started with them with good success. Next: soprano recorders.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 09:19 AM

"The discussion makes me wonder if perhaps the best thing is to let a child loose on a room full of instruments, and see which one they gravitate towards"

I think that is the best thing. It's just not worth getting an instrument the kid's not interested in playing.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Mooh
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 11:12 AM

Perhaps, but much depends on the age of the child. Some of the Suzuki violin kids I hear in my community got started so young they depend on it as much as oxygen, and have turned into very good players of violin, and often other instruments, by the time they hit the teens. Those who drop out still have a pretty good basic understanding of music, though not as general as piano students, in my experience. I've had more than a few former piano and violin students who returned to their former instruments after I encouraged them to apply their guitar-smarts to them. Multiple instruments are a real turn-on for kids.

Coaching and counselling the young student through the rough stuff of any instrument, making it fun, finding practical applications of theory, offering alternate pieces, and reducing the stress, will all help the student develop an appreciation or love of the instrument. Strict by-the-book lessons don't appeal to many, especially kids.

Either way, the student still has to practice.

The only downside to piano is its lack of portability, and with modern keyboards that isn't much of an issue anymore. That is assuming "cool" isn't a factor.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 24 Dec 04 - 06:33 AM

Today my younger daughter - the beautiful singer - arrived at home and I had a long chat with her about this theme. She is studying at a musical college for singing, piano and organ, and music teacher.
She started with early musical instruction in the kindergarten. At first they learned rhythm with Orff's instruments, and she puts special stress on rhythm as the basic of all music.
Five years of age she started with the treble recorder. She recommends it warmly because it is easy to play and easy to carry. The child has his own instrument, and when blowing in you get definitely and immediately a tone out. (Not always the case with the trumpet family or reed onstruments, ore a fretless string instrument.)
In her opinion you can't put a kid of the age Peter is talking about to choose his instrument out of a room full of such. When trying them a child would choose the recorder at last because of all this above.
At first it might be a plastic recorder (there are some really good ones), she says, or a wooden one with a plasic mouthpiece because the youngsters tend to bite and spit a lot at first. Later on they might be handed over a real wooden recorder.
It was also fun for her to play together with other kids, playing different parts. And - before she could read a book she could read sheet music.
I hope these experiences of a professional will be of some help to you.

I wish you a Merry Christmas
And a Happy New Year

Wilfried

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 06 Feb 22 - 05:30 PM

I couldn't spot any other relevant threads but I see there are some here interested in the recorder,,, pro and against.

Interesting prog here from BBC radio 3 talking to lots of expert recorder players.
No folk but lots of musical examples; not to be missed if you're an enthusiast!

The Listening Service
Recorders


,,,The first instrument put into the hands of thousands of 20th-century primary school children across the world, creating lifelong musical memories, some good, some bad.
,,, A recent survey of children who play a musical instrument found that the proportion playing the recorder has collapsed from 52% in 1997 to just 15% in 2020.
,,,An understated presence in the history of classical music nevertheless, the recorder has been utilised by composers from Henry Purcell and Handel, to Paul Hindemith and Luciano Berio.
Tom Service investigates…


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0013zy2

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 12:02 AM

"[...] like a child on a recorder; a sound, but not in government."
Shakespeare, A Midsummer Night's Dream.

In Germany, it seems to me that that the "lifelong musical memories" left by the recorder have, shall we say, not led to a deep love for the instrument among most people.

Too bad, because it can be a nice instrument. I used to play the recorder but I stopped after I got complaints, not about the recorder but when I started playing the trumpet. As soon as I could get a sound out of the latter, I started playing with a mute, so that was settled, but I decided that it would be better to not play any wind instruments that couldn't be muted. Anyway, I only have plastic recorders and you can stand on your head and nothing will make them sound good.

The idiotic "German" fingering system should have been banned, however. They still use it in schools here, which leads to the manufacture of hundreds if not thousands of inferior instruments being made, wasting tonewood, which is a valuable and disappearing resource.

From the companies Moeck and Mollenhauer in Germany, and probably others, you can get recorders out of any imaginable kind of tonewood. I have some reservations about making recorders out of woods like rosewood, grenadilla or mahagony. I won't say that an oboe or a clarinet is somehow "more worthy" than a recorder, but one of the former two is necessary, or at least extremely desirable, for them, whereas you can make a perfectly good recorder out of pearwood, maple or other non-endangered woods.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 12:05 AM

> [...] which leads to the manufacture of hundreds if not thousands of inferior instruments being made

Sorry, this was redundant and I said the same thing twice.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 06:32 AM

For thorough immersion into music in all its glories, I think the ideal would not be a single- note melody instrument. I hasten to add that I'm not dissing them at all. It's just that a deeper appreciation of melody AND harmony would come from learning the piano or guitar, for example. Maybe in the ideal world you'd learn both a keyboard instrument AND a melody instrument. I think you'd be at an advantage with that approach were you ever to want to apply for a college of music.

I've said all that and never followed any of that advice myself. I dropped music at school (the teacher was a bully) and ended up as a completely untutored harmonica player. Sheesh. But I've had a lot of fun with that. And therein lies another consideration...

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 10:17 AM

My first instrument was piano, which I would agree is a good grounding for moving to other instruments if you can get past that that first hard couple of years. And if, like me, you had to do music theory alongside it, as well as learn to read music, this stood me in good stead in years to come and moving to other instruments.
I don't know if people will remember a formidable lady called Atarah Ben-Tovim who used to go around the UK schools back in the 60s/70s? She had this theory that ALL children have music in them, and if they didn't get on with the first instrument they tried, this did not not mean that they were not musical, but that they just had not yet found the right one to capture their attention - and there would be a right one somewhere!
One thing I have also found on my musical journey is that each instrument I have taken up has beneficial spin-offs from the previous ones, e.g. I learned more about chords from playing guitar than piano, but this later helped me on when taking up melodeon, and then back again into my piano playing, especially when playing for dancing.
We were lucky in having an inspiring music teacher at school to whom we owe a lot, running choirs, orchestras, producing operas and arranging whole music weekends combined with other local schools.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 11:17 AM

Personal memories: I did recorder in primary school, then went to piano lessons for a year or few, which is entirely not the same thing as learning the piano. (Had there been any music theory in there, or if I'd been bothered remembered to practice, I might have progressed better.) After that I taught myself to play the banjo, then the guitar, both of which I can play tolerably well.

My piano teacher got dischuffed that I played by ear; OTOH my godmother said that when she played four verses for a hymn at school assembly, she had to sight-read it four times. Each of us was in awe of the other's skill.

> Atarah Ben-Tovim

I know that name: she took over the teatime music education slot on Radio 3 when David Munro (of early-music fame) committed suicide. That's the first time in Simply Ages that I've even heard her mentioned.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 22 - 11:35 AM

Ah yes, Atarah. Thanks for reminding me!

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 10:46 AM

I don't think there is a best. It would be terrible if everyone played the same thing. I think the best thing is to let children try every possible different kind. Unfortunately, this isn't practicable for most people.

My first instrument was the piano and I had very traditional music lessons for the first five or six years. It gave me a good basis for some things but playing by ear was discouraged, which was terrible. Also, you don't have to tune a piano yourself --- and can't, and you have no influence over the intonation, as with a violin, so you can't develop your ear very well with just the piano.

I think the guitar is a very good choice. On the other hand, when I was young, a plague of people strumming guitars covered the face of the land and swallowed up every crop and all the fruits of the trees. More recently, there's been a plague of ukeleles. I love the guitar and quite like the ukelele but like I said, it's terrible when everyone plays the same thing the same way.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Feb 22 - 03:39 PM

Ah yes, David Munrow: brilliant musician and a sad loss to the musical world, especially if you were into early music and well-played recorders!

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 04:51 AM

All the people recommending mouth organs are obviously naturals at playing by ear. I never could get a tune out of those that I pulled out of my Christmas stocking.
A keyboard to learn the basics on and something small to leave lying around to pick up and noodle on, maybe. Swanee whistle???

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 05:21 AM

I (well I would, wouldn't I?) suggest washboard and/or kazoo but others (especially if they've heard me) might question the term "music".
RtS

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 05:22 AM

Ah, but the one you pulled out of your Christmas stocking was likely an "entry-level" instrument or worse. Reeds that are already out of tune, uneven or nil reed response, reeds going flat after a few plays...untunable guitars made of plywood...cheap plastic recorders...those Chinese fiddles that even a seasoned sessionista couldn't scrape a decent tune out of... two-quid squawky tin whistles...

It's how to put children off playing music for life. When our two were learning the clarinet and concert flute respectively, we found the same thing. If you want your kids (a) to sound good, (b) to stick with it and have fun, "entry-level" should be regarded as dirty words. We had to pay relatively big mazumas, or at least do some canny second-hand purchasing, expert in tow (then do some servicing), in order to get properly playable instruments.

Mind you, you can get excellent blues harmonicas for about thirty quid/dollars. Life is such a learning curve.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 06:18 AM

Woodwinds are expensive. Good clarinets and oboes are usually made of grenadilla or sometimes rosewood or ebony, which are really expensive, not to mention the complicated key mechanism.

A few years ago, I was looking for a wind instrument to play and narrowed my choices down to a flute or a trumpet. With a flute, the more silver the better, which also drives the price up. In comparison, brass instruments are inexpensive. I got my trumpet at a discount, because the manufacturer had forgotten to add the fancy stamped emblem on the bell. I think the discount was at least 100 €. For that, I can easily forgo the stamping.

Flutes and trumpets use relatively litte material and are mass produced in large numbers and often in reasonable quality, so I think they are good choices for beginners.

I once had a school oboe made of wood (probably grenadilla) and I really liked it, but it had a crack, so my parents rented a plastic one from a music store. I never warmed up to it and, in fact, I've never warmed up to plastic instruments, such as my recorders. I quickly gave up on the oboe, but in those days I didn't like to practice, so it was really a no-goer from the start.

Price is another good argument for the guitar: Last year I bought a solid-body electric guitar from a well-known online music store for 128 €. I paid 60 € for the setup (it has a tremolo bar, so it was more expensive than normal), 59 € for a 10W amp, 66 € for a hard case and a few euros for cables. Would I prefer a hand-made arch-top? Sure, but I am nonetheless completely satisfied and I think what I ended up paying is a bargain for an instrument. Since then, I've spent several times that on effect pedals!

There are also good acoustic guitars for very reasonable prices and you don't need an amp or cables or effects, for that matter. One recent purchase was of a resonator guitar (on sale) for 378 € and it's become one of my favorite instruments.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 07:56 AM

Yes my Christmas stocking mouth organ was a toy not an 'instrument', but the point remains, my husband made sense of the blow/suck system and preferred to play by ear. I never did.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: The Og
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 10:32 AM

The thing that opened it all for me was not an instrument but learning about the Circle of 5ths (ok...4ths for you hardheads). Once that fell into place it all made sense!

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 12:11 PM

Wait until you find out about the circle of minor thirds!

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 11 Feb 22 - 01:14 PM

The circle of major thirds is nice, too.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: reggie miles
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 12:21 AM

Such an unusual question. I, like some others chose guitar. I played for several years before finding myself a part of a trio that had a smokin hot guitarist and acid fiddler. My finger style guitar picking didn't work for the trio. They wanted me because I had just began to play washboard. I wasn't very good at it but I enjoyed finding and adding weird sound effects into the mix of the things that I banged on. It soon became quite a visually stimulating design.

About five years ago, decades after I began this exploration of the zany side of washboard percussion, I discovered how attractive my washboard was to children. I left it unattended near a friend's booth, at a festival. When I returned, there was a line of children waiting their turn to blow in all of my whistles and bang on all of my bells, wood blocks, cymbal... My first thought was to save my instrument from such uninvited exploration. But instead, I pulled out my camera and began recording images and video clips of how much fun they were having. After reviewing what I had captured, it occurred to me that I had a box or two of spare parts in the basement. I wondered about the notion of making similar loony laundries just for children to enjoy exploring. The idea wasn't to teach music but merely allow them the freedom to explore sound, as they did while exploring my washboard. The idea was a sound one. After all, the children had already demonstrated their interest.

In creating them, I didn't want them to look like a children's toy. I wanted them to be a genuine adult level zany percussion instrument, like my own board. After years of building and rebuilding my own board, I had already acquired the ability to build with durability in mind. I used the same lessons learned to craft each one and they've handled thousands of interactions with children of all ages.

I call them Gadgets. I provide mallets for children to use to explore the percussive elements with. Even before the pandemic, I had begun making the transformation away from orally operated sounds, to all squeeze bulb operated sound-effects. This whole project has become a sweet mix of both my interest in music and art. As, each one that I've made is a uniquely different design from the rest and are as much art and they are musical in nature.

So, if your goal is to teach "music" to little ones, I can't say that I have an acceptable answer as to "What is the best first instrument?" But if your goal is to share the free exploration of unstructured sound, what I call Kidcophony, which is what I find most children who've encountered my Gadgets love to do, I'd say that simple percussion instrumentation, with a few weird sounds thrown in just for the fun of it, might be the way to go. Thousands of children have enjoyed my Another Road-Side Gadget Attraction. They can't all be wrong.

I say, at that age range, let kids be kids. Give them something to engage their boundless curiosity and desire for fun. I mean, besides staring into a cell phone and wiggling their thumbs. The sounds I've included can be struck with a mallet, spring triggered, foot and bulb operated.

I've collected sounds from cultures all over the world. Some are sounds used in spiritual ceremonies. Most have their unique designs rooted in specific cultures. I also include common items that were never intended to be musical in nature, which is part of the long tradition of washboard design. Will any of those who've encountered my Gadgets ever grow up to be percussionist or washboard players? Will any of those thousands be moved to discover music in any more in depth manner? Who can say for certain? But what I've done is create and introduction to concept of playing with sound and isn't that where this musical path starts?

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 12:40 AM

What an interesting posting! Got any photos on the internet anywhere? Sounds like you struck gold with that idea. How fortunate that you didn't chase off the first kids who hijacked your rig.

I just remembered a good recorder story. Anyone who hates cute kid stories should stop reading now.

Giving recorder lessons started when the middle child of my friends was 5 years old and really wanted to learn the recorder. I happened to mention to my friend that I was playing the recorder. Up until that time, I hadn't seen her very often since she started having kids. So, I got three recorders (the parents paid for them) and we got started.

Sometime later the mother told me that the girl in question was going out onto the patio with her recorder and she told her to stay inside with it. She replied that she wanted to go talk to the birds.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: leeneia
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 12:41 AM

I think the best first instument is a piano or electric piano. It teaches melody, harmony, musical expression and timing, and it teaches the left hand to communicate with the right. A piano teacher who teaches theory along with technique is good.

The things one learns on a piano then make it easier to learn other instruments.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: reggie miles
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 12:57 AM

Piers Plowman, yes. In fact, I actively capture images of the interactions that children have with my Gadgets and use them to create mini documentaries. There are some photos posted on my ReverbNation page.

Reggie Miles @ReverbNation

And there are a few mini docs on my YouTube page's "For Kids" playlist to give you an idea of what this notion has been about.

Gadgets @YouTube

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 01:37 AM

Those kids look like they're having fun. So much for children should be seen and not heard.

Your instruments remind me of Spike Jones and PDQ Bach.

One of the things I got for my friend's kids was a metallophone from an antique/junk store. I think it cost 5 €. It's like a toy xylophone but with lengths of aluminum pipe, like they sell at building supply stores, cut to various lengths and thus tuned to the chromatic (I think) scale, and painted in different colors. I think they played with it some.

I would have been very happy to keep it for myself and now that they've outgrown it, I asked the mother if I could buy it back (the parents had paid for it). She said she'd give it to me and I should get it the next time I'm over there. I can't wait! I wanted it to record "Suzy Snowflake" for Christmas but now I'll have to wait until December.

Something that resonated (so to speak) better with the children was the practice pad I got for them, which they referred to as "the drum". They played with it in my presence several times. I wonder if they realize what a useful item it is for adults, too.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 01:48 AM

The seriousness of their faces while they bang away at your instruments!
Someone ought to give you a grant.

It reminds of a scene in Kenneth Grahame's (the author of "The Wind in the Willows") "The Golden Age" or possibly "Dream Days" when the child narrator ends up in the rooms of a university student where there's a piano and the latter asks him if he wants to "have a strum". That was one of my favorite activities as a child. I remember it well.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 02:16 AM

I think the contrast between your approach and the Orff method is quite interesting. I admit to not being a fan of Orff as a person and I used to like his music more than I do now.

I find the Orff instruments interesting and there is at least one manufacturer in Germany, Sonor, that makes very high-quality versions of them. On the other hand, I had a book out of the library about the method and it was huge and full of theory. And it wasn't just the one book, it was part of a whole series. I thought and still think, that anything that needs this amount of theoretical underpinning has to be BS.

There's nothing wrong with pentatonic, but it's one of those things where you can't go wrong: Multiple people can noodle simultaneously all day and nothing will sound too awful. That's not what I call music, though. Sometimes I hear music and I think that it goes up and down but it doesn't go anywhere. Often with jazz solos, especially free jazz, before I switch them off.

Orff was big on improvisation but he didn't like jazz or popular music and didn't include it in his system, whereby jazz was the one kind of contemporary Western music where people were improvising. And I think what he did choose as repertoire seems very corny nowadays.

I think what you're doing is great and may well inspire many kids to want to make music. This isn't a criticism, but there is kind of a leap between making noise (or sounds) on instruments and practicing drum rudiments or learning to play the guitar or the piano or another instrument. However, that's where parents and teachers come in.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: reggie miles
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 02:52 AM

Yes, there is a big difference between the study of music and free play with sounds. On occasion, actual percussionists would venture by to share their prowess, which didn't interrupt what the children were doing in the least. It was nice to see and hear that contrast of studied talent and free exploration. I had one guy walk by to merely record what was happening, no doubt, to use in some future musical project. I asked if he would send me a copy of what he captured but received no response.

The display also prompts lots of parents to capture images of their children having fun. So, it's a means to engage their interest in capturing a sweet moment of their little ones having fun in a very unusual creative setting.

I try to make a point of offering no rules whatsoever, regarding access to my Gadgets. I keep them set low enough for even the tiniest tot to be able to reach them.

The largest event that I've been invited to feature my Gadgets was the Oregon Country Fair's 50th anniversary in 2019. Imagine three eight hour days of children having non-stop fun exploring sound. My cheeks hurt from smiling so much.

I realized that lots of events have very little to offer in the way of children's programming. Most grown-up events are created to satisfy the needs of big kids, big kid's music, big kid's arts and crafts but precious little in the way of creative thought to craft a truly entertaining interactive display for little ones to enjoy. I'm hoping that once things begin to open back up, I'll find more opportunities to share them.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 03:08 AM

> I asked if he would send me a copy of what he captured but received no > response.

What can you say? You cast your bread upon the waters ... I admire people who put themselves out among the public. You have no control over who you'll meet up with and have to learn to take the rough with the smooth.

I think your work would go over well in Germany, especially with what they call "68er" here, i.e., alternative, anti-authoritarian, counter-culture types, Waldorf and Montessori schools and such-like.

Maybe not with neighbours, though.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 03:16 AM

> I keep them set low enough for even the tiniest tot to be able to reach them.

You mentioned that on one of your videos. It's obvious that you've reflected on what you're doing. I think it's very good that you provide something for really little kids. I remember being bored out of my mind when dragged to events.

I haven't had a very thorough look but I like the "War of the Worlds" sculpture and the other stuff with lights and the sort of oscilloscope-like object.

Obviously, not everyone is going to like the noise, e.g., if someone's performing a concert, it wouldn't work to have your gadgets set up nearby. Sometimes organizers don't think of these things.

I once went to see a friend play with her group at a small event and they'd set up the stage next to the grill and the wind blew the smoke right at the musicians. I would have told them to move it or I wouldn't play. You really have to think of everything.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 04:21 AM

From today's Guardian:

The humble recorder is equal to any other instrument

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: reggie miles
Date: 12 Feb 22 - 12:51 PM

Pier Plowman, what is astonishing to me is the one-sided nature of those who program such events, to be considerate of the desires of big kids and dismissive of the needs of little ones. Those same little ones are our collective future. Treating them like so much excess baggage, to be parked somewhere, so big kids can have their fun, just seems completely backward.

I've took my inspiration to develop this idea from children and created something for children, which also appeals to the child in all of us. Most of the children's programming efforts that I've seen have always been rather traditional in its intent and execution. A big kid reads a story to little ones, or creates a puppet show for little ones, or paints the faces of little ones... It always places a big kid as the entertainer and treats little ones much the same way that big kids entertain other big kids, as an audience to be entertained. With my Gadgets, I don't dictate a role for the children to follow. I merely set-up what becomes an irresistible attraction of zany sounds, a kind of sonic jungle gym and provide the means by which they can explore them. I let the little ones entertain themselves, with no rules,just fun.

The volume level of most amplified stages at such events have no difficulty, whatsoever, of maintaining a sonic dominance over the available listening environment via their volume knobs, PA systems and amplifiers. My Gadgets are not amplified in any way. They are completely acoustic in nature.

I wonder what on earth is so important, so vitally necessary, that any big kid might perform/share on an amplified stage, that is so urgent, that it must take precedence over children having fun? This sort of reaction brings me right back to the beginning of this whole endeavor, where I was the big kid, about to shut down the fun that a group of little ones were having with my personal Gadget. Had I followed through with that notion, I would have never taken the time to capture the images and video clips of those little ones having fun and without those images and clips to look back on and reflect about, I likely would have never made the connection I did, to consider creating my loony laundries and other wild and crazy instruments. And ultimately, the thousands of interactions with my maniacal musical menageries might never have happened. And the world would be that much less fun for a whole bunch of children. Would the children have survived the loss? Of course, if nothing else, children are resilient to a fault. But I count it as one of my most priceless musical pursuits, to have taken the time to set aside my own desires and accommodate the insatiable curiosity of children.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 05:31 AM

It took me awhile to realize when you say "big kids", you mean adults. Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake.

I think there's a time and a place for both things, namely unstructured play and more-or-less passive consumption of entertainment designed and executed by adults. While I enjoy hearing children at play, I am sometimes annoyed by the noise. I don't think I'm different from anybody else in this.

I have always hated structured activities, for children or adults. (I was bitten by a camp counselor as a child.) But I have always loved animated cartoons and as a child I was certainly inspired to draw by the MGM cartoons (my favorites). And the forms of children's entertainment (books included) that are most inspiring are usually not the preachy ones or the ones with an explicit pedagogical intention, but the ones that are meant to entertain (e.g., Otfried Preussler, (German) author of "The Satanic Mill").

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 07:37 AM

Reggie’s Gadgets - no rules, get whatever noise you can out of them - remind me of the very Big Kid music of Helmut Lachenmann, who asks his performers to ignore what they’ve been taught about how to use their instruments and do entirely new things with them.

Laurence Picken’s book on Turkish folk instruments is an eyeopener because it’s entirely written around the Sachs-Hornbostel classification - instruments are grouped according to the physics of their sound production. Turns out that most of the space of possibilities is taken up with things classed as children’s toys. I particularly liked the one where you form a bubble of potter’s clay and smack it so it pops.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 08:33 AM

Reggie seems to imply that his gadgets are unusual in the US. Not so unusual at UK folk festivals, I think. E.g. Jan's Blackboard Van at Bromyard.

Subject: RE: What Is the Best First Instrument?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Feb 22 - 04:09 PM

I happened to mention "banjo" to my 7-year-old grand-daughter today: "What's a banjo, Grannie?" she says. I tried to explain what they looked like, but then called up a YouTube of 2 guys playing "Duelling Banjos": guess what? She loved it and she wants a banjo!